How Do You Cope/Plan To Cope In Thailand When 70+

[harrry]

A controversial question. I just saw Bicentennial Man again, this time on TrueVision. At the end, after the protagonist dies, his widow asks the nurse to unplug her from the machine. Would I have done that?

If you ask someone to kill somebody, is this different from killing that somebody yourself? Is suicide by asking somebody else to do it for you not a suicide? We also know "suicide by cops" as a concept.

In my ethical feeling, killing somebody, even if it is yourself, is bad. It does not matter whether you actually drink poison or ask another human being to do it for you.

There is an exception. If somebody is only alive in the medical sense because he is on machines, and does not feel or notice anything and is being a vegetable, I don't think the "life" should be extended artificially. I see a major difference between these two scenarios.

You're not 'killing' someone, just removing artificial life support.

However, there are documented cases, one quite recent, where the 'patient', reported to be in a vegetative state for many years 'came to' and communicated they had been aware of everything going on around them for the duration. Imagine that living hell.

We are only on the brink of discovering what 'consciousness' really is.

Whether "just removing the life support" is killing someone or not, is debatable.

It ia if they have been drugged into a state they cannot breathe or support themselves.

[necronx99]

A controversial question. I just saw Bicentennial Man again, this time on TrueVision. At the end, after the protagonist dies, his widow asks the nurse to unplug her from the machine. Would I have done that?

If you ask someone to kill somebody, is this different from killing that somebody yourself? Is suicide by asking somebody else to do it for you not a suicide? We also know "suicide by cops" as a concept.

In my ethical feeling, killing somebody, even if it is yourself, is bad. It does not matter whether you actually drink poison or ask another human being to do it for you.

There is an exception. If somebody is only alive in the medical sense because he is on machines, and does not feel or notice anything and is being a vegetable, I don't think the "life" should be extended artificially. I see a major difference between these two scenarios.

You're not 'killing' someone, just removing artificial life support.

However, there are documented cases, one quite recent, where the 'patient', reported to be in a vegetative state for many years 'came to' and communicated they had been aware of everything going on around them for the duration. Imagine that living hell.

We are only on the brink of discovering what 'consciousness' really is.

Whether "just removing the life support" is killing someone or not, is debatable.

What is a 'Sin'?

[StreetCowboy]

There was an article in a newspaper fairly recently saying that a new 'technique' for communicating with the 'comatose' via brainwaves has revealed that 40% approx of comatose patients are actually aware - just unable to move anything (even eyelids). How horrifying is that??

Does anyone think they would prefer to continue in that state rather than being given drugs to allow them to die painlessly?

Those who have no hope (short of a miracle discovery), should be allowed to die easily - NOT starved and dehydrated to death... If they are able to communicate their wishes, so much the better.

For the purposes of moral consideration:

Who cares? they can't talk anyway...

SC

Having seen my own dear grandmother go beyond the realms that she had earlier deemed liveable, I have no opinion but acceptance. I doubt any of us want to go there, but there is never a bus when you want one...

[Ch23]

This may only apply to the financially very well off but...

I know a elderly chap that frequents Sukhmvit and siam square during nights out. He has some sort of disability so he needs help with his movement and is frail looking. either way he has a group of girls half his age (that the wife is friends with) that do everything for him. They take him to the toilet, help him with his drink and help order the drinks... I presume one of them is the carer and the others are friends. They are out 3/4 nights a week and having a great time. Guy is a really nice bloke and although it looks strange to begin with (these girls are clearly taking advantage of him) he seems to be loving it. This has been going on for the past 4 years at least that i have seen and they spend alot on a night out so he must be loaded.

Alright for some i guess. Perfect way to go out if you ask me. This guy is living the dream.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So we spend 7-8 months in Cha Am and 4-5 months in Idaho.

BeenThere, how do you handle that kind of split living arrangement in terms of visa/permission status in Thailand... especially given the issue of 90-day reporting?

[nong38]

Yes, I do believe it's a cowardly choice, as the person does not want to deal with the problems at hand but wants to take the easy way out.

What if one is deaf, dumb, blind, paralized and in severe pain all of the time? There are people in unbearable circumstances whose every monent is a living hell. Who could blame them for taking the "easy" way out?

Dumb?

With all those problems how would they manage it?

[nong38]

Good point made earlier about doing your 90 day reporting if you are ill in bed, bed ridden, in a nursing home etc and cannot physically get to the reporting office, how do you deal with this situation?

[chops]

I hope I don't hit 70. No fun like that.

I'm 31 and live in Pattaya. Hopefully I can make it to at least 60. Means I've got 30 years left of living in paradise.

[tombkk]

Good point made earlier about doing your 90 day reporting if you are ill in bed, bed ridden, in a nursing home etc and cannot physically get to the reporting office, how do you deal with this situation?

By mail. The nurses will help fill in the forms.

[tombkk]

This may only apply to the financially very well off but...

I know a elderly chap that frequents Sukhmvit and siam square during nights out. He has some sort of disability so he needs help with his movement and is frail looking. either way he has a group of girls half his age (that the wife is friends with) that do everything for him. They take him to the toilet, help him with his drink and help order the drinks... I presume one of them is the carer and the others are friends. They are out 3/4 nights a week and having a great time. Guy is a really nice bloke and although it looks strange to begin with (these girls are clearly taking advantage of him) he seems to be loving it. This has been going on for the past 4 years at least that i have seen and they spend alot on a night out so he must be loaded.

Alright for some i guess. Perfect way to go out if you ask me. This guy is living the dream.

That's exactly my plan.

[jaideeguy]

Having care-given my father here in LOS for 5 years until his passing last year, I can say that dealing with the elderly is quite a chalenge here. Yes, help is cheap, but it requires constant management if you want it done in the western fashion. Not only does the Thai medical system have no geriatics specialists, they barely have palliative care and absolutely no hospice for the 'end time'. It was a constant chore to improvise and I had only dr google to rely on and a couple of compationate and knowlegable people on this furum to consult with. I also got a lot of support on the alzheimer's/dementia caregivers forum.....but bottom line, it took a lot of research and improvising to make my father's last years comfortable.

People have mentioned the 'easy way' to check out of the pain and humiliation that goes along with aging, but the reality is that if you are not of sound mind, then you have to rely on someone else to administer it and that is asking a lot of anyone to do the deed.

Another harsh reality is that it is a rare Thai wife that will administer it.....mine says she won't even if I am in severe pain....Buddah don't like that, he wants us to suffer. and would she be able to research the tricks if improvising palliatave care and hospice?? again, I know that mine wouldn't be capable of it and she has a college degree.

The Thai way is to just let the old folks suffer at home with no strong pain meds or check them into a hospital to get pain meds until the end. It is illegal to get any morphine to administer at home except a small amount of slow release tabs.

Bottom line....LOS may be a great place to live, but not a nice place to die.

One alternative is the Philippines, where they do have Hospice and palliatave care as well as English speaking caregivers and with me @ 65, I am researching and considering that as an option.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

So we spend 7-8 months in Cha Am and 4-5 months in Idaho.

BeenThere, how do you handle that kind of split living arrangement in terms of visa/permission status in Thailand... especially given the issue of 90-day reporting?

John the wife and I are here on a retirement visa (which we just renewed mid Jan) We do the 90 day when we are here but no problem being gone. You only do the 90 day report based on the last entry into Thailand. The biggest pain is the US medicare and supplements which sets up back about $9k a year. In thailand we are self insured as once you hit 70 insurance is very difficult and expensive to buy. The cost are such here we don't worry about it in LOS

For us it is an ideal life style for now and we enjoy both the coming and the going back each year. It's nice to spend time with the family. We have been out of the US since 82 so find some changes very nice and some really crappy. like the self serving government.

When it gets nearer time to kick off ( I figure about 20 years for me more for my wife) or if one of passes on the other will move full time to the US so we have someone to look after us, if required.

The biggest downside is the 33 hours getting from here to there. That gets real old real fast.

But we look at it is you only get one shot at life so enjoy it all you can. If there is some left over for the kids that is great if not that is the breaks.

[FarmerJoe]

I'm 55 and hopefully will live a lot longer seeing that my grandmothers were 93, 103, 105 and 106 when they passed. They oldest 3 used to talk to each other in the nursing home but had no idea they were sisters. Their minds started going after 90. My fathers side lived into their 80's. I'm hoping I make it mind wise till then. And if I can still manage, take the Big Swim as I call it and do as the ancient Greeks did and just walk into the ocean. The missus say's I'll get wacked on the road before that happens. On a brighter note, a friend of mine here is 90 and he still drives himself around Chiangmai without a problem and is still very alert. and goes dancing.

[farang62]

70 in April, life is Good here in LOS

[Colabamumbai]

My mother always gave me good advice, but hard to follow, "Don't ever get old"

[anterian]

A lot depends on individual temperament, how you adjust to getting old. I am 76 in just over 3 weeks time, but when I compare myself to Thais in the same age range I seem more middle aged than old aged. I have had arthritis and diabetes and eliminated both by a combination of adjusting life style, western medicine and herbal supplements. My main problems are a sometimes "lazy" left eye .... too much computer usage, a few missing molars, and sometimes attacks of sinusitis, nothing major.

I have 4 main hobbies, electronics, gardening, carpentry and computing, so am never idle, physically and mentally. I smoke too much, seldom drink alcohol, enjoy fatty foods but avoid Thai food. I bicycle most days, play badminton, wage ceaseless war on flies and mosquitoes, hate the bastards

I am happier here than in England, an important factor, my main grievances here are corruption and noise pollution. A smaller grievance is the lack of intelligent conversation, hence the computer/internet usage, but my son and his partner pop over from Manila at least once a year and my wife and daughters from England.

I have a Thai partner who takes good care of me and my home, in fact my main concern about my eventual death is how to prevent her spendthrift brothers from getting their hands on my two Thai houses, she is easily manipulated.

One thing, I object strongly to cremation, I want a green burial, even if that means flying my body back to England.

[nong38]

A lot depends on individual temperament, how you adjust to getting old. I am 76 in just over 3 weeks time, but when I compare myself to Thais in the same age range I seem more middle aged than old aged. I have had arthritis and diabetes and eliminated both by a combination of adjusting life style, western medicine and herbal supplements. My main problems are a sometimes "lazy" left eye .... too much computer usage, a few missing molars, and sometimes attacks of sinusitis, nothing major.

I have 4 main hobbies, electronics, gardening, carpentry and computing, so am never idle, physically and mentally. I smoke too much, seldom drink alcohol, enjoy fatty foods but avoid Thai food. I bicycle most days, play badminton, wage ceaseless war on flies and mosquitoes, hate the bastards

I am happier here than in England, an important factor, my main grievances here are corruption and noise pollution. A smaller grievance is the lack of intelligent conversation, hence the computer/internet usage, but my son and his partner pop over from Manila at least once a year and my wife and daughters from England.

I have a Thai partner who takes good care of me and my home, in fact my main concern about my eventual death is how to prevent her spendthrift brothers from getting their hands on my two Thai houses, she is easily manipulated.

One thing, I object strongly to cremation, I want a green burial, even if that means flying my body back to England.

Sounds like you made a good choice coming our from England and although I not as mature as you, I share a lot of the things you talk about apart from the smoking, brothers and cremation. You wont anyhting about it so dont worry, the brothers are a problem, maybe you have them cremated or shot! Edited January 29, 2012 by nong38

[DoctorG]

I have not seen anyone address the problem of wheelchairs. If your older age meant some sort of leg disability, could you stay in Thailand? The footpaths are dangerous enough for pedestrians, how would you manage in a wheelchair?

[necronx99]

I have not seen anyone address the problem of wheelchairs. If your older age meant some sort of leg disability, could you stay in Thailand? The footpaths are dangerous enough for pedestrians, how would you manage in a wheelchair?

Sedan chair with a couple of Burmese porters?

[eljeque]

I have a couple of friends here in their eighties.

70's is just the beginning of fun.

Next, is the West a better place to figure this out, or not?

[Old Croc]

I have not seen anyone address the problem of wheelchairs. If your older age meant some sort of leg disability, could you stay in Thailand? The footpaths are dangerous enough for pedestrians, how would you manage in a wheelchair?

Good point.

With my problems there is a possibility I could end up in a chair. With that in mind, I have used the opportunity of recent house renovations to make the whole place wheelchair friendly. If I do get to that point I know I will be able to navigate everywhere on my property.

But, that doesn't change the fact that Thailand generally is very difficult for people with disabilities. Crappy curbs, high steps everywhere and flood proofing would make life very hard.

I know there are at least two wheelchair confined posters on Thaivisa and they do manage to lead relatively normal lives. If they're reading the thread, it would be nice to hear of their travails here.

I've have seen people in electric chairs charging around Karon and Patong, usually on the roads to avoid the curbs.

[IAMHERE]

good business idea.. retirement home for farangs.

Better would be an entire village devoted to it. Have a place with a few thousand and that is the business for the entire region. Have everyone involved. I figure $2000 for every retiree. Maybe 200 retirees. How much Baht would that be? Enough for a village of 2000 Thai's to live one ?

[ozzydom]

Stop worrying about it ,at 73 ,life is as good and as interesting as it was 15 years ago.

I gave up booze about 8 years ago, still smoke 2 packs a day as I have done for the last 60 years,work 10 hours a day on the farm ,holiday in Cambo 2-3 times ayear, still wear the large gold ear-ring that has been there for 50 years.

Just think and act young,age is nothing but a number.

I have outlived all my close relatives (and most of my friends)so when I eventually kick over the traces LOS is as good a place as any to do it.

Besides they just gave me another 5 year plus on my drivers licence so I cant waste it.

[Old Croc]

Good to hear from a large number of people who are getting up there in age and still enjoying life here!

My impressions that many here seem to finish in their 60s may be just an illusion. Perhaps they're the people who don't adapt or modify the bad habits to allow for the process of deterioration and would die earlier whereever they are..

Many different thoughts on how to cope with the end. Seems retirement/nursing homes here may be an option, while most have family/friends here to see them through, others will head home when the time comes.

For the singles, things may be a little more difficult. As someone pointed out, after many years here, there may not be family back in the old country to help. A hired nurse in Thailand may be the best option.

For my thinking suicide is a private and personal decision which may be the only option for terminal and painful situations.

[HerbalEd]

Think people should have a rough idea of how and when they are likily to peg it. It's all in the genes, if you have family history of long slow illnesses or mental degradation, then some sort of plan to spare the family from years of care may be a good idea.

Fortunately for me, barring accidents and wars, both sides of the family seem to just not wake up or drop dead, no planing required. Smoking and alcohol don't appear to have made much difference. Fathers side die in their late 60s, mothers side 90s. Which side I will follow, who knows and I will probably not know. One day here next day gone. Jim

These days dying in late 60s is an early death.

[nahkit]

Can or will a Farang be given a traditional Thai Funeral?? I'm not so sure. I've asked what will happen when I die & I get a dig a hole and cover it up in the rice field mime. It's all in fun but it does make you wonder.

Yes, they can, I went to one a couple of weeks ago.

[ballpoint]

Here's the real problem: Age related dementia. We can all joke about it, but if this journal quote is accurate, it should be a major concern;

About 5 percent to 8 percent of all people over the age of 65 have some form of dementia, and this number doubles every five years above that age. It is estimated that as many as half of people 85 or older suffer from dementia.

Based upon the lifestyle choices of many foreigners in Thailand, the path to dementia will be hastened. On the other hand, those lifestyle choices will also mean that the elderly foreign population will most likely die at a "younger" age than their native peer group. Not the best of tradeoffs though...

Based on the number of "hansum" old men and their young partners, Thailand certainly has more than its fair share of penile dementia sufferers.

[puipuitom]

A Thai takes care for somenbody who is family OR pays sufficiently for all is my experience since I started to do business there in 1977.

YOU think there are Thai's who will take care for you when you do NOT have sufficient finances at a certain age ? Or.. when your mental situation is, you have to give her / him full attorney over your bank account? My idea: it will not be "cleand off" and you are put outside, or at the max 50 mtrs away from your embassy !

Thailand is a nice country if your fysical situation and your bank acount are still fit enough. Without bnoth.. better NOT to be on the mercy of the Thais.

Remind: as farang you have only one right: to leave your money there as quick as possible, and then.. leave !

[Mobi]

Good point made earlier about doing your 90 day reporting if you are ill in bed, bed ridden, in a nursing home etc and cannot physically get to the reporting office, how do you deal with this situation?

Well here in Pattaya there is at least one visa company who will do it for you for a modest fee, so no problems.

[Mobi]

A Thai takes care for somenbody who is family OR pays sufficiently for all is my experience since I started to do business there in 1977.

YOU think there are Thai's who will take care for you when you do NOT have sufficient finances at a certain age ? Or.. when your mental situation is, you have to give her / him full attorney over your bank account? My idea: it will not be "cleand off" and you are put outside, or at the max 50 mtrs away from your embassy !

Thailand is a nice country if your fysical situation and your bank acount are still fit enough. Without bnoth.. better NOT to be on the mercy of the Thais.

Remind: as farang you have only one right: to leave your money there as quick as possible, and then.. leave !

I would actually take issue with this.

In my experience of living here - on and off - since the mid seventies, (maybe around 20 years in all), I have found Thais no better and no worse than any other race of people.

There are evil, money grabbing, selfish, uncaring people everywhere, and I suggest that if you reside in a redlight district or in an area which has a preponderance of foreign, mainly wealthy tourists in any country, then you will encounter a similar bunch of conmen and criminals.

Some years back, I used to know a Brit in his 80's, quite infirm, who lived in a small room in Prakanong, Bangkok on extremely limited income. His only income was a UK pension that had been frozen over 20 years ago, and even then he hadn't qualified for the full amount.

He had no wife but I was quite amazed to find that there were several Thais - in particular one middle aged lady, who did what they could for him. They had known of him in better days and hadn't deserted him when he was in his final years. They were not wealthy Thais but they came by regularly to clean his room and feed him and take him out occasionally. It was quite touching to see.

This is by no means the only example of Thais - often with little themselves - who have reached out to farangs in distress. Thais can be very compassionate and are always helping each other and occasionally they will help a foreigner who is in distress or has fallen upon hard times.

I have even been helped myself by complete strangers during my drinking days when I have had accidents,or when I have run into spot of bother.

In fact I would go as far as to say that Thais are more likely to put their hands out to a stranger in trouble - Thai or foreigner - than their counterparts in the west. Most westerners just refuse to get involved and walk away when someone has a problem.

Of course, there are plenty of 'bad eggs' around - especially around places like Pattaya or amongst families where the wife is a prostitute and the family has been 'feeding' off the farang husband's money. But even with bar girls, you will find many who are good hearted and generous.

The problem with so many farangs is they have had a couple of bad experiences in Thailand due to their foolish, arrogant and naive behaviour and then assume that all Thais are bad. If only they were to get out of the tourist sector, learn how to communicate with their hosts in their own language,and understand their culture a little better, they would see a totally different side to the Thais' character and behaviour.