Thai Elephants Are Being Killed For Tourist Dollars

[SouthernMan3]

The government official was right to blame the foreign tourist for the elephants death. He just got the reason wrong. It isn't for the meat and sexual organs, it is for the tourist trade. Either way, the foreign tourists, are of course, to blame.

Of course.

[kennalder]

[When transported, baby elephants are often said to be the offspring of the captive (legally owned) older female. The law in Thailand stipulates that any captive-born offspring needs to be registered - within nine years - so, this is a major loophole open to abuse.]

Easy; close the above loophole and get DNA tests done on the ones now in captivity.

Good luck with that law change and who's to stop the tea money from people who collect the DNA...

It's a vicious cycle...

[When transported, baby elephants are often said to be the offspring of the captive (legally owned) older female. The law in Thailand stipulates that any captive-born offspring needs to be registered - within nine years - so, this is a major loophole open to abuse.]

Easy; close the above loophole and get DNA tests done on the ones now in captivity.

Good luck with that law change and who's to stop the tea money from people who collect the DNA...

It's a vicious cycle...

I think the vicious cycle ran its course a long time ago. Now it maybe just broken beyond repair.

Realistically, where would you start to stop any of this. No-one has any respect for the law. As someone else said Thais gladly waste their national symbol, the Elephant, for money. But it even goes beyond that. Look at everyone throwing their trash all over. There is just no sense of pride in their country. It is really a pity.

[pacovl46]

Mandatory death sentence for everyone who's involved in illegal wildlife trade in any form!!! It wouldn't surprise me if there were restaurants somewhere in Thailand or Asia for that matter that offer stuff like tiger dicks so some people of an asian country I won't name here can stuff it down in order to get an erection instead of popping a viagra. It's pathetic!!!

[MILT]

This story is so generalizing.

Their are some people in Thailand making huge money on this abuse of elephant, Save The Elephants bla bla bla. I have visited the elephant camps there are no baby elephants being ridden. Plain common sense tells me this story is BS. There could be a million reasons why people are killing the wild elephants.

Just about every elephant camp in northern Thailand has baby elephants. Mae Sa has two that are under a year old plus several others that are 1-4 years old. The elephant camp in Mae Win has two that look about 2 years old. Even the Chiang Mai zoo has young elephants.

If there are "a million reasons why people are killing the wild elephants", and selling the ivory is not one of them, how about giving us just one or two other reasons.

That's right almost every elephant camp has baby elephants, but not from the wild. Because they have baby elephants means that elephants were killed? Get real! They may have been killed because they were encroaching on some agriculture land. Who knows? The point is to blame the elephant camps for being the problem I would argue that the elephant camps are a great way to keep the elephants employed and off the streets and from logging work. Elephants are a migratory animal in the wild. Domesticated elephants rely on humans for food period. People forget that the elephant handlers love their elephants as well as being a part of a unique culture. Sad that the elephants were killed, and the persons responsible are to blame period not tourist who visit elephant camps like the article suggest. The Does work for you?

[jehricaholic]

Another false headline

[charmonman]

This is just one more example of how ignorant foreign tourists, greedy Thai businessmen, and corrupt Thai politicians are ruining what was once upon a time a wonderful country.

[Johpa]

The title should have read that elephants are being killed by greedy karen people indifferent to these majestic creatures in order to line their own pockets with illegal money.

Yes, I too am getting tired of seeing all those bloody P'yaginynah (Karen) driving around in their mercedes and living high on the hog. Anyone who lives in the hills knows just how greedy, not to mention dirty, uneducated and sexually promiscuous they all are with their meu kinaw (young women) advertising their availability in those white dresses designed to show off every curve of those secondary sexual markers. And then all those Karen down in Phuket, where pachyderms are as indigenous as are the Karen, speading their vile ways into the pristine Thai culture of that former tin capital. But the lovely uncorrupt Bangkok folks have an app for dealing with unruly greedy hill based minority peoples. It might be time for more relocations of the greedy to scrub lands in the valleys which would facilitate the proper usage of the forests by the Royal Forestry Department, that uncorrupted bastion of concern for preserving nature within the Kingdom.

[puntmeister]

This story is so generalizing.

Their are some people in Thailand making huge money on this abuse of elephant, Save The Elephants bla bla bla. I have visited the elephant camps there are no baby elephants being ridden. Plain common sense tells me this story is BS. There could be a million reasons why people are killing the wild elephants.

Wow, such a confused, thoughtless post. No, no one is riding the baby elephants - but, you know, for an elephant to become an adult - it must first be a baby. Where are the camps getting the adult elephants from?

There are actually only a handful of reasons why anyone would kill a wild elephant - and none of them good, short of, "I was taking a stroll through the forest when, out of nowhere, a wild elephant tried to trample me, so I whipped out my elephant gun and shot it in self defense"

[puntmeister]

This story is so generalizing.

Their are some people in Thailand making huge money on this abuse of elephant, Save The Elephants bla bla bla. I have visited the elephant camps there are no baby elephants being ridden. Plain common sense tells me this story is BS. There could be a million reasons why people are killing the wild elephants.

Just about every elephant camp in northern Thailand has baby elephants. Mae Sa has two that are under a year old plus several others that are 1-4 years old. The elephant camp in Mae Win has two that look about 2 years old. Even the Chiang Mai zoo has young elephants.

If there are "a million reasons why people are killing the wild elephants", and selling the ivory is not one of them, how about giving us just one or two other reasons.

That's right almost every elephant camp has baby elephants, but not from the wild. Because they have baby elephants means that elephants were killed? Get real! They may have been killed because they were encroaching on some agriculture land. Who knows? The point is to blame the elephant camps for being the problem I would argue that the elephant camps are a great way to keep the elephants employed and off the streets and from logging work. Elephants are a migratory animal in the wild. Domesticated elephants rely on humans for food period. People forget that the elephant handlers love their elephants as well as being a part of a unique culture. Sad that the elephants were killed, and the persons responsible are to blame period not tourist who visit elephant camps like the article suggest. The Does work for you?

So long as the elephant camps aren't knowingly buying wild elephant calves, then they aren't to blame (though its kinda hard to imagine they could be duped in this process). And yes, the camps are a good idea - but only insomuch as they do NOT poach wild elephants in order to supply their herds.

How is it you know that the baby elephants in the camps are not from the wild?

The author of this article sounds credible - and its sounds like he has done plenty of first hand research. I am open to hearing opposing arguments, if they offer equally credible evidence.

[swillowbee]

... ah, yes ... once again, Thai values on display ... a Buddhist nation of such spirituality ... where greed is far greater than the Buddha ... kill, kill, kill.

[TinoThailand]

Only dollars right? Bad Amaricans! No Euro's! lol, just a joke, I love animals but this story or writing style smells a bit... And I see many people don't like the title/presentation for something that starts with the Thai in this case. Rather have a topless casino anyway

[TinoThailand]

So when a fool offers money for something that is iligal, the one who offers the iligal has no blame because ther was a market for it?

Something like this?

[wolf5370]

How mad is this? How easy would it be to stop (or at least make this very difficult)? Have they ever heard of DNA? How difficult could it really be to arrange a registration scheme for all domestic elephants, Any unregistered elephants can be confiscated, and any babies registered that are not related to others in the herd need paperwork. Keep the authority dealing with the registration in the dark by using only reg numbers of both owners and elephants and corruption becomes very difficult (computers can hold mapping numbers so it is not directly possible to look up owners/elephant at the coal face and hence no corruption). This makes it easy to check for the bad guys buying and arrests can bemade - sellers and poachers find it harder to sell and thetrade dies.

[Johpa]

Where are the camps getting the adult elephants from?

Well from people like my wife and I. We sold our elephant to the owner of the Mae Sa elephant camp a few years ago. That elephant, Mae Noi, can now be seen in the nursery with her 6 month old little dumbo, her third offspring. I suspect that if there is an issue as alledged it centers on the elephant camps outside the traditional elephant regions up north.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Johpa

[IAMHERE]

Simple solution would to be close down the elephant camps. Certainly stop the elephant polo. More certainly STOP advertising elephants by the Tourist Authority of Thailand literature, website and travel trade shows.

[KKK]

one government official alleged that these animals were killed to provide elephant meat and sexual organs for consumption at wildlife "bush-meat" restaurants on Phuket, for visiting foreign tourists

It seems like a deliberately made-up claim, for whatever reason

The reason is rudimentary and common place.

It displaces the blame onto foreigners as the reason for the killing of elephants... instead of on the locals.

.

And those foreigners would be of chinese descent...I doubt any european would be interested in consuming elephant testicals

[soiselee]

This is a ridiculous and unfounded accusation. In Ayutthaya we have bred nearly 50 babies since 2000. I have personally welcomed well over half of these babies into the world. Just look at our website www.elephantstay.com and our facebook pages and you will see pictures and the birth stories of every new born since I started working for our foundation to conserve elephants the Prakochabaan Foundation. Usually we have at least one local media person come to film/photo as well. We also have lots of video proof as well. We welcome you to do DNA testing of every elephant born at our camp, and do not forget to bring the media as witnesses!! Why as an NGO would you not actually do proper research and stop wasting everyones time. You should be celebrating our success like all the people who come here year after year enjoying and supporting our new borns, pregnant mothers and of course all the mating. Because that is how we get our baby elephants and that is why we are at the forefront of elephant conservation.

[mic6ard]

Honestly, just who is coming up with these stories. IMOP the comment regarding kiiling the elephants for meat, etc. is probably taken out of context. I think that the writer is probably looking for someting to write, not really good journalism at all. The whole piece is just "hear-say", "possibly", "probably"!

Unless you have concrete evidence shut your !@#4g mouth and leave LOS alone.

Are you trying to help the country of drag in down further!.

What an idiot

[Dibbler]

Honestly, just who is coming up with these stories. IMOP the comment regarding kiiling the elephants for meat, etc. is probably taken out of context. I think that the writer is probably looking for someting to write, not really good journalism at all. The whole piece is just "hear-say", "possibly", "probably"!

Unless you have concrete evidence shut your !@#4g mouth and leave LOS alone.

Are you trying to help the country of drag in down further!.

What an idiot

He may well have names, dates and addresses but can't write these in a newspaper article or any case that goes to court could be thrown out, or he could be sued. The writer knows his stuff. He's been in Thailand over 25 years now working in the wildlife conservation arena, and knows what is going on. All factual content in the article. And yes people do eat elephant meat, or specifically, certain parts of the elephant, even in Thailand, as they do in other Southeast Asian countries.

[longtom]

The title should have read that elephants are being killed by greedy karen people indifferent to these majestic creatures in order to line their own pockets with illegal money.

Yes, I too am getting tired of seeing all those bloody P'yaginynah (Karen) driving around in their mercedes and living high on the hog. Anyone who lives in the hills knows just how greedy, not to mention dirty, uneducated and sexually promiscuous they all are with their meu kinaw (young women) advertising their availability in those white dresses designed to show off every curve of those secondary sexual markers. And then all those Karen down in Phuket, where pachyderms are as indigenous as are the Karen, speading their vile ways into the pristine Thai culture of that former tin capital. But the lovely uncorrupt Bangkok folks have an app for dealing with unruly greedy hill based minority peoples. It might be time for more relocations of the greedy to scrub lands in the valleys which would facilitate the proper usage of the forests by the Royal Forestry Department, that uncorrupted bastion of concern for preserving nature within the Kingdom.

Great post, love it!

[newermonkey]

I was watching a discovery doco about elephants in africa attacking and killing people out of revenge to people killing thair familly members.

Apparently when a baby elephant sees its mother, farther or siblings being murdered it will remember for the rest of its life and will take any opportunity to seek its revenge.

This would be very dangerous in Thailand as people are close to elephants, and when an elephant wants to kill someone it will do it very easily.

[blackthorn2005]

one government official alleged that these animals were killed to provide elephant meat and sexual organs for consumption at wildlife "bush-meat" restaurants on Phuket, for visiting foreign tourists

It seems like a deliberately made-up claim, for whatever reason

The reason is rudimentary and common place.

It displaces the blame onto foreigners as the reason for the killing of elephants... instead of on the locals.

.

They are filling a gap in the market, not that makes it right. The gap is the Chinese tourists and the number of them visiting is getting bigger, so you will see more of this, dead tigers and 'finned' sharks.

[Johpa]

Simple solution would to be close down the elephant camps. Certainly stop the elephant polo. More certainly STOP advertising elephants by the Tourist Authority of Thailand literature, website and travel trade shows.

Ah yes, we could close down the elephant camps and then freeze all the meat that would result from the necessary culling, unless of course we were to waste the meat by allowing the pachyderms to starve to death. But what would more likely happen is that the now unemployed elephants would be unshackeled and allowed to roam wild again and they would likely be roaming into the gardens of the now unemployed elephant camp workers living near the now disestablished elephant camps. Well at least then the meat from the now dead elephant shot to protect the regular food source of the hungry villagers would go to feed the newly unemployed and not some Chinese or Korean tourist.

[Buchholz]

one government official alleged that these animals were killed to provide elephant meat and sexual organs for consumption at wildlife "bush-meat" restaurants on Phuket, for visiting foreign tourists

It seems like a deliberately made-up claim, for whatever reason

The reason is rudimentary and common place.

It displaces the blame onto foreigners as the reason for the killing of elephants... instead of on the locals.

foreign tourists or local tourists?

Thais' new taste in elephant meat risks extinction

Associated Press - Jan. 26, 2012

A wildlife official says a worrisome new practice of Thais consuming elephant meat could threaten the national animal with extinction.

Damrong Phidet, the head of Thailand's conservation agency, said Thursday the authorities became aware of the practice among Thais after two wild elephants were found slaughtered in a national park earlier this month.

He said poachers took the elephants' sex organs and trunks to eat. Some Asian cultures believe that consuming animals' reproductive organs can boost sexual prowess.

Continues:

http://seattletimes....syndication=rss

Edited January 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

and yet another article today are yet another reason or two for the elephant numbers being under threat...

With the recent reports of widespread elephant poaching and killing for ivories, the number of Thai pachyderms has been reducing significantly.

Besides, the animals have also fallen victims to attacks and road accidents. Many wild elephants have become crippled and died.

NNT - Jan. 26, 2012

http://thainews.prd....id=255501260012

Edited January 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[PoodMaiDai]

one government official alleged that these animals were killed to provide elephant meat and sexual organs for consumption at wildlife "bush-meat" restaurants on Phuket, for visiting foreign tourists

It seems like a deliberately made-up claim, for whatever reason

The reason is rudimentary and common place.

It displaces the blame onto foreigners as the reason for the killing of elephants... instead of on the locals.

.

Bingo.

[el jefe]

Blame does belong on the tourists.

The logic on this and other threads is baffling. Some are saying that without the elephant camps the domesticated elephants will starve to death. Then why in the world are they all breeding more??? The elephant camps are not there to protect domesticated elephants. They are there to generate profits. If tourists are more than happy to hand over fees to sit on an elephant's back while it walks down a country road, you can't blame the Thais for wanting some of that money.

At last count there were 9 elephant camps in the Mae Tang area. There are 5 or 6 more in the Mae Wang/Mae win area south of Chiang Mai. That doesn't include the two big ones at Mae Sa and Chiang Dao. There are also at least two young elephants that are forced to walk the streets of Chiang Mai helping their owners beg for money.

Where do you think all the elephants are coming from? And if there wasn't a demand from tourists, do you think there would be new elephant camps popping up every month?

[Dibbler]

Blame does belong on the tourists.

The logic on this and other threads is baffling. Some are saying that without the elephant camps the domesticated elephants will starve to death. Then why in the world are they all breeding more??? The elephant camps are not there to protect domesticated elephants. They are there to generate profits. If tourists are more than happy to hand over fees to sit on an elephant's back while it walks down a country road, you can't blame the Thais for wanting some of that money.

At last count there were 9 elephant camps in the Mae Tang area. There are 5 or 6 more in the Mae Wang/Mae win area south of Chiang Mai. That doesn't include the two big ones at Mae Sa and Chiang Dao. There are also at least two young elephants that are forced to walk the streets of Chiang Mai helping their owners beg for money.

Where do you think all the elephants are coming from? And if there wasn't a demand from tourists, do you think there would be new elephant camps popping up every month?

The problem facing wild elephants is roughly the same as that for tigers. We have the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi, and tigers in various private zoos and collections around the country attracting tourists who get their photograph taken with the animal. This too is encouraging poaching of tigers from the wild, and from across the border in neighbouring countries. Like the elephant camps, the places where these tigers are kept are sometimes fronts for smuggling businesses, with animals coming in staying a while and they being shipped to other places, even other countries. The Wildlife Law badly needs a complete rewrite, with facilities that keep wild animals having to register all animals in their care, and restrictions on numbers of animals they can keep. Elephants and tigers should be microchipped so they can be traced when they are traded and moved around the country. It's a problem of having a system and enforcing it, and as we know, enforcement in this country or lack of it, is the real issue.

[el jefe]

Blame does belong on the tourists.

The logic on this and other threads is baffling. Some are saying that without the elephant camps the domesticated elephants will starve to death. Then why in the world are they all breeding more??? The elephant camps are not there to protect domesticated elephants. They are there to generate profits. If tourists are more than happy to hand over fees to sit on an elephant's back while it walks down a country road, you can't blame the Thais for wanting some of that money.

At last count there were 9 elephant camps in the Mae Tang area. There are 5 or 6 more in the Mae Wang/Mae win area south of Chiang Mai. That doesn't include the two big ones at Mae Sa and Chiang Dao. There are also at least two young elephants that are forced to walk the streets of Chiang Mai helping their owners beg for money.

Where do you think all the elephants are coming from? And if there wasn't a demand from tourists, do you think there would be new elephant camps popping up every month?

The problem facing wild elephants is roughly the same as that for tigers. We have the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi, and tigers in various private zoos and collections around the country attracting tourists who get their photograph taken with the animal. This too is encouraging poaching of tigers from the wild, and from across the border in neighbouring countries. Like the elephant camps, the places where these tigers are kept are sometimes fronts for smuggling businesses, with animals coming in staying a while and they being shipped to other places, even other countries. The Wildlife Law badly needs a complete rewrite, with facilities that keep wild animals having to register all animals in their care, and restrictions on numbers of animals they can keep. Elephants and tigers should be microchipped so they can be traced when they are traded and moved around the country. It's a problem of having a system and enforcing it, and as we know, enforcement in this country or lack of it, is the real issue.

I agree. But part of the solution would be to stop breeding captive animals to entertain tourists. And that's up to the tourists to say "no". Tiger Kingdom in Chiang Mai has 20-30 tigers, yet they claim that none of them are over 2 years old. They don't say where they're selling them to after they turn 2.

[Fantastic5]

Best post i have seen in along time, good to make people awear of these rings.

Tourests From all over support these ventures unknowingly every time they visit these places, as said before node and no product, it's not high on locals lists to go to such places.

If each place keepingy elephants had the elephants DNA tested and the plane regularly inspected the approved by the nesasery government body, it reduce these numbers very rapidly followed by the death penalty for people buying, selling and taking bribes in such ventures.