Revamping HSBC Sells Thai Banking Assets

[chainarong]

Shouldn't worry, you can always change banks, if you can put up with the red tape, what concerns me is why is HSBC getting out of Thai, for a world bank and the large industrial base of Thailand, doesn't make sense.

Background reason is change of top management at HSBC a year plus ago. New man was CFO before and now bean-counters rule. Out goes strategic vision and in comes cost control. The basic idea behind the premier product was that it meant that if you are Premier in one country (based on minimums for deposits/investments/loans etc) then you would automatically get the same enhanced benefits (pricing, service etc) anywhere on the HSBC network even if you had pennies in the local account. Works for me in three countries at present and was about to add Thailand but I guess that will not happen now. BAY may lose quite a few of the accounts if they were from people who only had them because of the multi-country Premier status feature.

From the HSBC point of view they are looking at all Premier/retail franchises to see (a) whether they are profitable on a stand-alone basis and/or ( whether they either have critical mass or some prospect of reaching the same. BKK obviously did not make the cut.

Yeah , I have an account with them in HK,they have a very good netbank site , I use Kbank and BKKbank in thai , when in Rome do as the Romans do, as they say.

[chiang mai]

I stopped in a Bank of Ayudhya branch here in Chiang Mai today and was pleasantly surprised, so much so that I actually opened an account with them! I was checking out interest bearing accounts and got into a discussion with one of their staff who spoke excellent English and was super knowledgable and helpful. I opened a five month fixed rate/term account at 3.2% less tax, effectively a 2.72% account, the same as every other bank is offering presently. But the account will serve to hold my "excess" THB whilst earing some interest, that same THB at HSBC BKK earned hardly anything so I'm ahead of the game.

But I hope that B of Ay is good in its own right and not just by comparison, before going there I'd stopped at a lesser known bank on Chan klan and had a torrid experience. The girl who tried to serve me initially was absolutely petrified of farangs and/or of speaking English to a farang, I felt really sorry for her as she turned bright red and stammered and at one point I thought she was going to cry, the girl who took her place was only slightly better but ultimately I was refered to the manager.

The bulbous arrogant blob, devoid of any semblance of customer service, professionalism or civility pawed my passport repeatedly whilst trying to understand what the various stamps said/meant. "It's" call to head office was laced unsparingly with "farang this" and "farang that" and at one point I thought he might even spit at me in disgust! Unsurprisingly his eventual answer was, "no work permit, no account" as he tossed my passport across the desk. I tried to explain, without being too aggressive, that I'd lived here for nine years, opened more bank accounts across Thailand than I could remember and injected more into Thailand's economy in that time than he'd earned in his life to date - needless to say I left empty handed. Big sigh!

Edited January 28, 2012 by chiang mai

[Wozzit]

Most people forget that HSBC stood for "Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Company" (or Corporation) and was based in Hong Kong until HK was handed back to China many years ago, when HSBC shortened their name and relocated to The City (London banking area), where they already had a large banking presence due to the money markets.

HSBC transferred its corporate base to London in 1993 to meet the UK's regulatory requirements following its takeover of the Midland Bank. It was not a result of the handing back of Hong Kong to China. But the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation remained as a corporate entity based in Hong Kong. Rumor has it that HSBC would like to transfer back to Hong Kong. In 2009 the Chief Executive was relocated from London to Hong Kong.

[george]

Public announcement from HSBC Thailand (PDF file attached)

RBWM-Announcement-EN.pdf

[Pib]

Public announcement from HSBC Thailand (PDF file attached)

RBWM-Announcement-EN.pdf

I think below cut and paste from the announcement says it all:

This means that we will transfer our personal loan, mortgage and other retail banking portfolios to Krungsri Group. For deposit accounts and bill of exchange customers, your consent will be sought before the transfer.

For deposit accounts I think they are basically saying we will transfer your bank account to Krungsi Group with your permission; if you do not approve you will need to identify to us what other bank/bank account to transfer your funds to (probably with an associated transfer fee) which will also effectively close your account with us. Have a nice day.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Speaking about BBL they say the charge for using their ATM for foreign withdrawls is 150 baht. Not ture. They also charge a foreign transaction fee based on the amount of the withdrawal. If you doubt it check your foreign bank statement.

Yes, all the Thai retail banks including BBL now charge a 150 baht fee for ATM withdrawals using most non-Thai bank cards...

But if you're using a Thai bank ATM, the foreign transaction fee above and beyond the 150 baht isn't coming from the Thai bank... It's coming from your home country bank/the one that issued your non-Thai bank card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There has been zero communication from HSBC Thailand to their customers about this potential sale.

HSBC Thailand has had an announcement of the planned sale posted on the home page of their Thailand website ever since the day the sale was publicly announced... So they have communicated...

But yes, apparently not as yet to their Thailand customers individually, as you might hope/expect they'd do at some point.

Also, re some comments above, HSBC actually has had at least two branches in Thailand/BKK lately. They not too long ago opened a new branch in the Thong Lor area, which their announcement says is being closed even earlier than the main Silom HQ branch... Obviously, their local Thai management didn't see this one coming beforehand.

Then, I would wager, what probably interests most farangs here about HSBC is their Premier account status ($100,000+ deposits U.S. required) and its ability to do online banking and transfers internationally... though I've never been entirely clear whether those services they offer are economical compared to other available options.

Nonetheless, while it might be nice to have some well-dressed BofA staff person attend to your needs as a Privilege customer, BofA doesn't have any special international transfer capability that I'm aware of, other than traditional wire transfers...

But I'm not clear on what perks come with their Privilege status... and no one posting here has given any specifics of that. It will be interesting to see how close, if at all, their Privilege package comes to replacing what HSBC offered via Premier. I suspect it won't be anything remotely similar.

Edited January 30, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[GarryP]

I wonder what is going to happen to those of us who have unsecured HSBC credit cards. I assume that division has also been sold.

[hughden]

There has been zero communication from HSBC Thailand to their customers about this potential sale.

HSBC Thailand has had an announcement of the planned sale posted on the home page of their Thailand website ever since the day the sale was publicly announced... So they have communicated...

But yes, apparently not as yet to their Thailand customers individually, as you might hope/expect they'd do at some point.

Also, re some comments above, HSBC actually has had at least two branches in Thailand/BKK lately. They not too long ago opened a new branch in the Thong Lor area, which their announcement says is being closed even earlier than the main Silom HQ branch... Obviously, their local Thai management didn't see this one coming beforehand.

Then, I would wager, what probably interests most farangs here about HSBC is their Premier account status ($100,000+ deposits U.S. required) and its ability to do online banking and transfers internationally... though I've never been entirely clear whether those services they offer are economical compared to other available options.

Nonetheless, while it might be nice to have some well-dressed BofA staff person attend to your needs as a Privilege customer, BofA doesn't have any special international transfer capability that I'm aware of, other than traditional wire transfers...

But I'm not clear on what perks come with their Privilege status... and no one posting here has given any specifics of that. It will be interesting to see how close, if at all, their Privilege package comes to replacing what HSBC offered via Premier. I suspect it won't be anything remotely similar.

Sticking something on a website is not, in my opinion, sufficient "communication". Personally I never look at their website. I think it is telling that the press release that I saw provided contact numbers for media and investors, but offered nothing for customers. At a minimum there should have been a communication to each customer on the day the sale was announced, with perhaps a link to a website where further information could be provided over time.

I opened a Premier account here and in the UK when I retired. The advantages to me were that I could transfer funds from the UK to Thailand with no charge, and I could have a credit card here without needing to have funds in Thailand. Doubt BofA will offer the credit card without secure funds (I don't have a work permit), and of course the free international banking transfers will not be possible.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't disagree about any of those points... I'm an HSBC customer, not in Thailand, but in my home country... And they're emailing me all the time about all kinds of things... So they clearly have the ability to communicate directly with their customers...

Why they didn't do so in this case, I don't know.... It certainly would seem to be the kind of situation where they'd need and want to.

But the world of corporate communication, I can say speaking from personal experience, often can be a strange and inexplicable place.

[chiang mai]

Well I'm in the same boat as everyone else on this subject but I'm in the process of trying to move on. What I can say is that my experience with BAY in Chiang Mai has been very very positive, my experience with Standard Chartered Bank Chiang Mai however has been worse than dire, one of the worst baking experiences of my life, so much so that I closed my account after only two days and paid a penalty fee just to get out!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

CM, what if anything is BAY offering to do that would replace in-kind any of the Premier type services that HSBC had been offering to its Premier customers?

[chiang mai]

CM, what if anything is BAY offering to do that would replace in-kind any of the Premier type services that HSBC had been offering to its Premier customers?

I have no idea, I didn't ask and my HSBC account manager hasn't voluntered any information, as others have correctly pointed out both HSBC and BAY seem to have dropped the ball on the communication/logistics front - the account I opened with BAY in CM was a bog standard deposit and a fixed rate account, the service and product knowledge of staff however was outstanding.

[george]

HSBC Thailand Premier customers have now been informed via email (PDF Attached).

Important Annoucement - HSBC PREMIER THAILAND(DETAILS).pdf

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From the above announcement:

Bank of Ayudhya normally charges overseas money transfer fees of between 500-1,200 baht, however, with Krungsri Exclusive Banking privileges the fee will be only 350 baht. With our special arrangement, the overseas money transfer fee will be waived during an introductory period of 1 April – 30 September, 2012.

So since the normal HSBC Premier threshhold is $100,000 U.S. or about 3 million baht (and it seems to me UK based accounts have even a lower threshhold level), folks seemingly are going to face higher balance requirements (5 million baht) from BAY after the first year grace period in order to maintain their level of increased services...

What is the qualification for being a Krungsri Exclusive Banking customer?

For the general public, here are the requirements:

•

Deposits or investments in either bills of exchange / mutual funds / debentures / premiums of life insurance payment or combination of all of the afore-mentioned products with an aggregate amount of 5 million baht and higher, or

•

Loans of 3 million baht or higher plus deposits of 2 million baht or higher.

As an exclusive offer to HSBC Premier customers who transfer accounts to Krungsri Exclusive Banking, Bank of Ayudhya has agreed to waive the minimum balance requirement in the first year.

[SantiSuk]

I got this from HSBC:

"The sale has been completed and Bank of Ayudhya will take care of HSBC customers if they agree to go to Bank of Ayudhya. The services will be provided through Exclusive Banking, Bank of Ayudhya.

The HSBC Premier main branch office will be opened until 30 June 2012. We are sending more information about details of the impacts and changes to the customers. You will soon receive the information. "

I'm disappointed because I have global banking which links well through HSBC...can't believe B of A will be so simple..

kind of leery of Bank of Ayudhya Exclusive...

now that HSBC Premier is disappearing

considering Standard Chartered Priority

Citibank Citigold

UOB Privileged

anybody have any other recommendations? (other than the big local banks --Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn, TMB, SCB, KTB) which dont really provide personalized service in my experience)

Keep posting if you check any of these out Trajan. I'll do the rounds of personal service banks next time I come up to Bangkok from the sticks.

I'm another dismayed HSBC Premier customer. If they don't want to service me in Thailand that's their commercial decision but they can whistle Dixie if they think I'll continue my banking in Thailand with some successor of their choice, or if they think I am going to continue using them or investing with them in the UK or anywhere else worldwide. Pity - they were an ok'ish bank for me for the last 20 years.

[chiang mai]

I got this from HSBC:

"The sale has been completed and Bank of Ayudhya will take care of HSBC customers if they agree to go to Bank of Ayudhya. The services will be provided through Exclusive Banking, Bank of Ayudhya.

The HSBC Premier main branch office will be opened until 30 June 2012. We are sending more information about details of the impacts and changes to the customers. You will soon receive the information. "

I'm disappointed because I have global banking which links well through HSBC...can't believe B of A will be so simple..

kind of leery of Bank of Ayudhya Exclusive...

now that HSBC Premier is disappearing

considering Standard Chartered Priority

Citibank Citigold

UOB Privileged

anybody have any other recommendations? (other than the big local banks --Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn, TMB, SCB, KTB) which dont really provide personalized service in my experience)

Keep posting if you check any of these out Trajan. I'll do the rounds of personal service banks next time I come up to Bangkok from the sticks.

I'm another dismayed HSBC Premier customer. If they don't want to service me in Thailand that's their commercial decision but they can whistle Dixie if they think I'll continue my banking in Thailand with some successor of their choice, or if they think I am going to continue using them or investing with them in the UK or anywhere else worldwide. Pity - they were an ok'ish bank for me for the last 20 years.

I've checked out SCB and as I've said elsewhere recently, it was easily my worst banking experience ever, anywhere.

[rogerdee123]

After about 20 years of being their customer, HSBC Thailand has also left me in the lurch! I have other HSBC accounts in the region and in US. It all fit together nicely ... until now. My assets in HSBC Thailand were what gave me Platinum status in my other HSBC accounts and need to keep most of these assets in Thailand.

I travel a lot internationally and need a bank that has a branch in Bangkok but also one that issues VISA credit cards and that's well known and usable almost anywhere (US, Europe, Latin America, & Asia). I also can really use something similarly convenient and farang friendly as my HSBC platinum account has been. I guess this means Citibank or Standard Chartered ... or UOB?

I am also reviewing (online) the various options in Bangkok now and will next week be physically going to meet the alternatives. I'll report here my conclusions and my decision after next week. In the meantime, any new tips, suggestions or advice will be appreciated.

[RickBradford]

it's a real pity -- I closed my HSBC account yesterday, and the staff were utterly professional; I took my sack of money (well, a cashier's check) 200 yards down the road to Bangkok Bank, the second biggest branch in Thailand after head office, and not only did nobody speak English, even the queue machine was written purely in Thai.

I can get by with reading and speaking Thai, so this was not such a big deal, but when i presented the cashier's check to the teller, he reacted like a jungle tribesman being shown a conjuring trick -- complete bafflement.

As is always the way, he handed me a form to fill out, but no, I didn't want a loan to buy a car, and we were approaching stalemate when an older lady turned up (alerted by secret button, no doubt) and was able to understand what was required (still no English language, though).

The final insult was being charged 800 baht to deposit money into my own account; that always grates. Don't you want my money, then?

Sad to see HSBC go, for sure.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^RB,

I will be venturing down to the HSBC later this week.

Today I wandered into a branch of BAY to make some tentative enquiries, all I can say is its easy to forget how spolied we have been over the years.

So called manager kept going on about a WP, I asked her where she was getting her information from and could she please phone the head branch.

Said manager was also totally unaware of the situation regarding HSBC, which doesnt exactly inspire confidence.

After being proven wrong and losing face regards the WP issue, it was straight into defensive mode on her part.

It was only after asking about rates for term deposits etc she realised she wasnt talking to some KSR backpacker trying to cash a TQ.

Too be honest, if this brach is indicative of the rest of normal Thai banking, God help us.

I am giving serious consideration to Singapore, but will wait until talking to staff in HSBC later this week.

[chiang mai]

Thai banks can be difficult, sometimes impossible, but once you find a good branch you're made.

In Chiang Mai my experience of BAY has been excellent, other good banks here include Kasikorn and Bangkok Bank, but can I open an account at TMB or L&H, not a chance, others will no doubt report different experiences and that same diversity exists everywhere across the country.

[letitbe]

The deal is not yet approved by the shareholders. An extraordinary general meeting (EGM) has been called to be held on 20th March 2012. News is sketchy and confusing as the press report that it only affects its premier, credit card and personal loan business, yet the news also refers to selling HSBC's retail banking business which by inference would include personal and savings accounts. Personally I am not happy with the deal unless we can get exactly the same standard of service or better. Although I have an account with Bangkok Bank, I opened an account with HSBC because BBL took 45 days to clear my pension cheques against HSBC's 19 days. I can get a letter from HSBC for immigration stating B800,000 in my account without problem on the day of my visit to immigration to renew my visa, BBL give me hassle if I request a letter as I have to go to head office and apply then return later. HSBC accept applications for the letter for immigration by e-mail. Much better.

Anyone have any better information?

Interesting. I'm with Bangkok Bank and need to get a letter for immigration next month. Luckily I live near the head office.

The deal is not yet approved by the shareholders. An extraordinary general meeting (EGM) has been called to be held on 20th March 2012. News is sketchy and confusing as the press report that it only affects its premier, credit card and personal loan business, yet the news also refers to selling HSBC's retail banking business which by inference would include personal and savings accounts. Personally I am not happy with the deal unless we can get exactly the same standard of service or better. Although I have an account with Bangkok Bank, I opened an account with HSBC because BBL took 45 days to clear my pension cheques against HSBC's 19 days. I can get a letter from HSBC for immigration stating B800,000 in my account without problem on the day of my visit to immigration to renew my visa, BBL give me hassle if I request a letter as I have to go to head office and apply then return later. HSBC accept applications for the letter for immigration by e-mail. Much better.

Anyone have any better information?

Interesting. I'm with Bangkok Bank and need to get a letter for immigration next month. Luckily I live near the head office.

i wish people like you would stop talking nonsense Ive got my bank statement from local Bangkok bank branch no problem on same day for last 5 years or so and we live in sticks. HSBC are great if you use them in Hong Kong Singapore or other places in Asia but total crap here. They even told me I was better off with one of Thai banks and were Premier customers in Hong Kong Singapore UK USA and Jersey. The only reason we opened a premier account here was for free global transfer facilities but even that here in Thailand was no good while in all other places it is great. Ive also given up on Thailand as a place to keep money or investments but will continue living here as weve done for last 16+ years. Its a shame the thai people decided to let that crook Taksin run place again. They will pay for that in end and of course its poor who will pay most

[ExpatJ]

HSBC TH is offering Exclusive Privellege customer status at B of A for one year, in which time the account balance must be made up to 5 mill., yawn, I'm off - but like the previous poster, this screws up my highly efficient and convenient Global View and its associated transfer facilities, oh well, nothing lasts for ever.

This sucks- where did you read it?

Regarding the BoA staff not speaking english as mentiikned by several other posters- im hoping that in the premier customer service centers there will be good levels of english!

Im only moving to BaY because i have a mutal fund with HSBC TH that i want to hold for a while longer so its either move it for free to BoA or close it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The info on the required account balance with BoA was in HSBC's we're outta here announcement.

[rgs2001uk]

HSBC TH is offering Exclusive Privellege customer status at B of A for one year, in which time the account balance must be made up to 5 mill., yawn, I'm off - but like the previous poster, this screws up my highly efficient and convenient Global View and its associated transfer facilities, oh well, nothing lasts for ever.

This sucks- where did you read it?

Regarding the BoA staff not speaking english as mentiikned by several other posters- im hoping that in the premier customer service centers there will be good levels of english!

Im only moving to BaY because i have a mutal fund with HSBC TH that i want to hold for a while longer so its either move it for free to BoA or close it.

I visited the HSBC last week, downstairs there were about 5 or 6 reps from BAY who would assist in the opening of acounts.

I got the impression they were catering only to those who were looking for Exclusive accounts with BAY.

The lady I spoke to offered me the choice of 3 locations, Phuket, Thong Lor and All Seasons Place on Wireless Rd.

I havent yet opened an account because the locations were of no use to me, and I have decided not to become an Exclusive customer.

I also spoke to my HSBC relationship manager, I also hold an ING fund.

There is no need to close the fund, but you will have to deal with ING yourself.

In short you do not need to transfer to BAY to keep hold of you mutual fund.

However if you keep control of it yourself it may well be you fall below the threshold for Exclusive status with BAY.

I was also told all accounts will be closed on 31st March, I still havent decided where to move the money as I still have to investigate a couple of local banks.

However I may well just opt for a couple of normal accounts with these banks and keep control of my ING funds and deal with ING myself.

[4evermaat]

Speaking about BBL they say the charge for using their ATM for foreign withdrawls is 150 baht. Not ture. They also charge a foreign transaction fee based on the amount of the withdrawal. If you doubt it check your foreign bank statement.

Bkb and other thai banks only charge 150 baht fee for withdrawing from their atm with a non-thai atm card. Your home bank may have additional charges, like the foreign transaction fee.

"2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app.

[GarryP]

Just this morning got a letter from HSBC. Basically, they told me that I need not do anything for the time being. It is business as usual and HSBC credit card holders are free to get themselves further into debt.

[SantiSuk]

rgs2001UK reports that HSBC bank staff told him that accounts need to be closed by 31 March. The literature HSBC sent out, received this week, says it slightly differently. HSBC will remain open for retail banking until 30 June, but you will not get any interest and the branches will have been closed. Online banking remains until 30 June.

I wonder where they will do their corporate banking from (not that I care much) and I wonder if they have realsied that some corporates have special banking arrangements for employees with their corporate bank and may not see their 'focus on corporates' as being quite the plus point that HSBC expect

[chiang mai]

I've already agreed with HSBC Bangkok to not close my account until end April, that way I can get twelve full months of statements plus the necessary letter for the renewal of my visa, they said fine.

[Kered]

The Chief Executive of HSBC Thailand sent out a letter stating that Krugsri would supply a comparable service to HSBC Premier but that appears to be a complete lie as there appears to be very little which is comparble. Krungsri service would appear to involve additional charges and requires a 5 million deposit in Thai Baht. In addition there are no international services and this causes a problem for those with HSBC accounts in other countries and depending on easy transfer and Global view.

Has any ex HSBC Premier customer managed to find anything comparable to the Premier service?