Heng Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Hi all,Dowries......... What I would like to know is: is this a common theme in Thailand or between Thai's? ... yes, and even if you were a superslender, handsome Thai of a very exclusive Thai inheritance --- you would still have to pay a proper dowry/bribe to to get the consent of your brides family... Respect and accept, or go looking for some girl of a different nationality... I'd say in general nothing is actually *paid.* It's just part of the ceremony. The funds, gold, deeds, etc. are put on various trays for the morning engagement ceremony and back in their various safes before noon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hi all,Dowries......... What I would like to know is: is this a common theme in Thailand or between Thai's? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... yes, and even if you were a superslender, handsome Thai of a very exclusive Thai inheritance --- you would still have to pay a proper dowry/bribe to to get the consent of your brides family... Respect and accept, or go looking for some girl of a different nationality... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd say in general nothing is actually *paid.* It's just part of the ceremony. The funds, gold, deeds, etc. are put on various trays for the morning engagement ceremony and back in their various safes before noon. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mostly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzap Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 From what I've heard (from Thais) some of it may be given to the freshly married couple, some of it taken out to cover debts in the bride's family, gold ends up either with the bride or the bride's mother. Part of money and gold may indeed only be there for show. But really, it's up to agree beforehand what will happen to the dowry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKK90210 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sin sod money! Try my method….it might work for you. It’s certainly worked for us. At the time my parents were asking my husband and his parent roughly $100,000 US dollar….the cost of study in America…2 yrs in high school and 4.5yrs in the university (room+board+tuitions). All this times I didn’t even know they had been tallied up all my expenses abroad! At that time we’re just like 2 peas in a pod, love sick fools, couldn’t take another breath without each other by our side ….blah …blah…blah… Where am I? Oh the sin sod money! Any way my husband said he’s willing to pay ½ of the amount because without the American education, if I were to stay in Thailand that I would have to eat and go to school anyway and that expenses my parents have to incur any how. My parents still stood firm on the amount! After several days of stand off….my husband blinks first! He said O.K but he will only pay on the engagement day. On the engagement day, my husband asked his friend who is an attorney to draw up a legal and binding contract (as a joke) states that “…in exchange for the sin sod money…in the future my parents agree that they won’t see any of the grandchildren, produced by us, and have no contact right without our prior permission or have no says in raising them, and please sign at the dotted line………” Guess what? My parents didn’t sign the contract! I think they’re stunned and not very happy. My husband didn’t have to pay a single penny. But we went ahead with the engagement ceremony anyway (the bride side has to pay for the party you know...it’s a tradition), I guess mom didn’t want to lose face among all her friends. Later on she asked my husband why he did that. He easily replied “ with that being such a large sum, we probably wouldn’t have any money left to even have a single child!” That was 19 yrs ago & we’re still in love. Ah…I love the story with the happy ending like this! Oh… by the way back to your story….all I can say is GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!! Sin sod is a part of thai tradition but you don’t have to agree to it. It’s a game to see who will blink first and how weak you are as a player. It’s not what you do but how you do it. Just remember every thai mothers did not want their daughters to become a wall flower at home after 30. Disclosure: only from my own experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sin sod money! Try my method….it might work for you. It’s certainly worked for us. At the time my parents were asking my husband and his parent roughly $100,000 US dollar….the cost of study in America…2 yrs in high school and 4.5yrs in the university (room+board+tuitions). All this times I didn’t even know they had been tallied up all my expenses abroad! At that time we’re just like 2 peas in a pod, love sick fools, couldn’t take another breath without each other by our side ….blah …blah…blah… Where am I? Oh the sin sod money! Any way my husband said he’s willing to pay ½ of the amount because without the American education, if I were to stay in Thailand that I would have to eat and go to school anyway and that expenses my parents have to incur any how. My parents still stood firm on the amount! After several days of stand off….my husband blinks first! He said O.K but he will only pay on the engagement day. On the engagement day, my husband asked his friend who is an attorney to draw up a legal and binding contract (as a joke) states that “…in exchange for the sin sod money…in the future my parents agree that they won’t see any of the grandchildren, produced by us, and have no contact right without our prior permission or have no says in raising them, and please sign at the dotted line………” Guess what? My parents didn’t sign the contract! I think they’re stunned and not very happy. My husband didn’t have to pay a single penny. But we went ahead with the engagement ceremony anyway (the bride side has to pay for the party you know...it’s a tradition), I guess mom didn’t want to lose face among all her friends. Later on she asked my husband why he did that. He easily replied “ with that being such a large sum, we probably wouldn’t have any money left to even have a single child!” That was 19 yrs ago & we’re still in love. Ah…I love the story with the happy ending like this! Oh… by the way back to your story….all I can say is GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!! Sin sod is a part of thai tradition but you don’t have to agree to it. It’s a game to see who will blink first and how weak you are as a player. It’s not what you do but how you do it. Just remember every thai mothers did not want their daughters to become a wall flower at home after 30. Disclosure: only from my own experiences <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great negotiating. Great story. Thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I concur!!! You don't need to pay - already in the cards that you will be helping the family from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Still looking for a tall, skinny orphan......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Still looking for a tall, skinny orphan......... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and other required attributes are nymphomania and plenty of readies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonik Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 you're scaring me guys, there is no way in h#ll i'm paying 1Mbth for my gf wedding. What do they think we westerns are made of????????? It's just setting a bad example giving that much money........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 My mate has just been discussing it with his gals dad.....the dad told him she was free...the dad is an ex Army general... My mate jokingly replied....in Oz when we make we make offer we always give something more like steak knifes or something.... Dad said..." oh I see, Ok ...you can have a house too" True as I sit here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKK90210 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) you're scaring me guys, there is no way in h#ll i'm paying 1Mbth for my gf wedding. What do they think we westerns are made of?????????It's just setting a bad example giving that much money........ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ---------------------------------- No, this money is for "sin-sot" money. the wedding money is extra! Anyway why will you have to pay for the wedding ceremony itself? Part of thai tradition, the bride side supposes to pay for this, trust me....foods, flowers, plastic chair for the guests(unless you can get from the temple)... etc.... If they ask you to pay for it, they're taking you to the cleaner! My friends, the neighbours, and myself had the same experiences...we're all went through the same procedures. The groom side has to pay only for the sin-sot money, that big dia ring, the house and the car or whatever you need to start the life together! Unless they have different rules/fees for farang....just like the entrance fee! or You're super rich! and want to pay for everything! Edited December 11, 2005 by BKK90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.cruella Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Still looking for a tall, skinny orphan......... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Still looking for a fat, skinhead, poor ,age over 55, no wife, no kids and speak English. If you are one I will tell my dad pay sin-sort for you. I am serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Still looking for a tall, skinny orphan......... Still looking for a fat, skinhead, poor ,age over 55, no wife, no kids and speak English. If you are one I will tell my dad pay sin-sort for you. I am serious. You could be in luck... udon qualifies in most of those criteria... Look out udon.... dr.cruella's hunting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Pass......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Pass......... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With only two posts, at least she's not addicted to posting ... yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ding Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 WOW! $2,500-$25,000 US is a big range. No game, really, unless there's an agreement ahead of time that some or all will be returned. Makes me afraid to fall in love with a Thai woman. Do many guys leave the girl because the parents want too much? How does the poor girl feel? She would be hurt by both parties. My buddy pays Mama $150 a month and no dowry was paid. Now Mama calls and wants more/needs more for... Imagining the typical age desparity to be male in his 40's and female in her 20's and an unmarried salesgirl, would that really be the 100,000B? Or would beauty be a big factor? Man, the game of 'not blinking' sure sounds risky too. Would hate to make the parents mad and not have a family there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 The custom IS there in our culture, the issue is whether the lady you're marrying is observing tradition or was just planning to bleed you dry in the first place. This post has been edited by siamesekitty: 2005-05-02 11:20:43 I agree with siamesekitty's thoughts and expertise on this whole subject... I went through some major parts of the whole sin-sot discussion with a gf almost 3 years ago... Then, I did not know as much about Thai culture(s) as I do now... She was very pretty, had a university degree (in marketing!) and was an opportunist... She and her mom asked for a 10 million baht sin-sot! I thought the amount was ridiculous at the time and I should have ran when I had that early warning... Instead, I tried to negotiate a lesser amount and that got me nowhere... I "wasted" a lot of time and money on that girl, but I did learn a lot more about Thai cultures... Knowing what I know now, consider a high sin-sot request to be a warning to stay away unless you are a masochist or are very rich and don't need the money anyway! So, if it seems too expensive, it probably is... ! Good luck to you both. Chok dee na? dseawarrior BTW, my current gf is an orphan... really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 The "unreasonable" dowry amount is a polite way of saying 'we don't want you in this family' but if you're going to go the extra step, 'we'll tolerate you.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 The "unreasonable" dowry amount is a polite way of saying 'we don't want you in this family' but if you're going to go the extra step, 'we'll tolerate you.' How very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mraitchison Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I offered my missus Mum a washing machine and a microwave - she didn't find this very funny. I however did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 What was the final deal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2396 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Don't give her or the family a plug nickel. The whole idea is antiquated - a relic of medieval mentality and should be illegal. I can't believe the idiots on this forum consistantly supporting such a concept. I paid it, but would never do so again. None of it was ever returned to me or her and they just continued to ask for more. I have seen many of these so-called matchmakers asking for dowery for women they are "selling" who have been married before and/or have children. There is no morality in this game. It is buying a woman - plain and simple. Maybe she will be around for awhile and maybe she won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Don't give her or the family a plug nickel. The whole idea is antiquated - a relic of medieval mentality and should be illegal. I can't believe the idiots on this forum consistantly supporting such a concept. I paid it, but would never do so again. None of it was ever returned to me or her and they just continued to ask for more. I have seen many of these so-called matchmakers asking for dowery for women they are "selling" who have been married before and/or have children. There is no morality in this game. It is buying a woman - plain and simple. Maybe she will be around for awhile and maybe she won't. It's amazing how much you've integrated yourself into Thai society and are in such a deep and binding life-long relationship. I enjoy someone writing abour morality when they talk about their current marriage in such low regard ("never do it again")..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2396 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Don't give her or the family a plug nickel. The whole idea is antiquated - a relic of medieval mentality and should be illegal. I can't believe the idiots on this forum consistantly supporting such a concept. I paid it, but would never do so again. None of it was ever returned to me or her and they just continued to ask for more. I have seen many of these so-called matchmakers asking for dowery for women they are "selling" who have been married before and/or have children. There is no morality in this game. It is buying a woman - plain and simple. Maybe she will be around for awhile and maybe she won't. It's amazing how much you've integrated yourself into Thai society and are in such a deep and binding life-long relationship. I enjoy someone writing abour morality when they talk about their current marriage in such low regard ("never do it again")..... What I ment to say was that I would never pay any dowery again. Such payment had/has nothing to do with the quality of the relationship. The fact that money is entered into the picture is such an arrangement is disgusting enough. In the real world one might hope that when in entering into a marriage, the motivation would be based on the love of both parties for each other. When the demand for money is put on the table, the effect is to corrupt the whole process. It should not be surprising that many, if not most, pairings of Thai women with farang men are based entirely on money. If the women is over 35 and/or has children I am told that she is not particularly marketable marriage material to a Thai man. Thus, the solution is to marry her off to a farang, and why not squeeze the most out of him as possible. With this kind of "cultural environment", who knows what any marriage, based on such conditions, would be worth? If the money holds out probably OK, if not bye, bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 A dowry (and usually some gold as well) is very much a traditional part of the wedding ceremony in Isaan. Your knowledge of Thai culture a2396 is sadly lacking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 my current gf is an orphan... really! You lucky so'n'so, they're like finding chicken teeth. Any sisters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveDaBlues Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 1,000,000 baht Pay it you're nuts....it's only the start. By asking for that amount it's obvious they view you as nothing more than a pile of money. If they WANTED you to be a member of the family they might ask for dowry but not that much in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 50 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi all,Dowries......... Need some input of opinions of the above; to cut a longer story short........Im seeing this Thai lady and she talks about paying a dowry to her family if we get married. I must say Im not too keen on this 'idea' and wonder what the 'old hands' have to say about it. The amounts discussed are substantial, Bt1,000,000. The whole idea of paying is an anathema to me, but I suppose one way or another 'we' (I will) end up paying anyway. What I would like to know is: is this a common theme in Thailand or between Thai's? What is the common amount and how does the 'calculation' take place? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks Grapetable The maximum reasonable dowry of 100,000 should be dolled out bit by bit. Any "lady" asking for 1,000,000 is in the game and playing you for a sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Try doing a search on "Dowrie" or "sin sot" as this is one of the most talked about subjects here and comes up about once a week or so.Anyway there are 2 shcools of thought. 1. Dowrie(sin sot) is the thai custom and your marring a thai so you should pay it. 2. Dowrie(sin sot) is akin to buying a wife and and "there's no way I ever buy a wife" Most Thais pay or at least show Sin Sot at the wedding its calculated on social status, age, married before, children ect On BTY a million Bhat is a ludicrous ammount of money unless you GF happens to be a University graduate virgin child of a well off BKK family. This is wisdom, I'll add to it that the reasons behind it are outdated and not always paid (yet to fool the falang they will often ask it!) If a man takes a woman and marries her then the daughters family will be out of pocket from the offspring sending them money, hence to offset this a dowry or bride price is paid to alleviate the financial loss of earnings. Secondly its a way of keeping the common thai's with the common thai's and the rich with the rich. Its a bit one-sided that the sons who is sending his family money will be totally out of pocket by the end of the wedding! However part of the dowry is supposed to be returned from the coffers to the married couple to help pay for the kids/house etc. The 'going rate' for a typical Issan Farm girl is about 10K - 60K depending on age, number of children, if shes been married before etc etc. For a upper-working class /middle class girl, 120K - 250K depending on looks, paleness and education, a fair chance she may be a virgin. For Upper class / Elite / Minor aristocracy lady the skys the limit, 500 K upwards, very good chance shes a virgin, normally a stunner and as white as we are. With the dowry from hel_l will undoubtably come high maintenance (something few falangs realise across the social spectrum) enjoy! The whole idea of a dowry is what some argue is a form of institutionised prostitution albeit as a one-off payment. Can't say I agree with the whole dowry ballshit, in fact the way thailand is going marriage will (hopefully) become more balanced with couples living together but unmarried. Its interesting to note that in the days of yore in medievil Europe it was the opposite. Dowrys where paid by the daughters family. This was because the man supported the wife and brought home a wage while the wife saw to the running of the household (and was not earning). But 1,000000 Baht is a fcking ridiculous amount to ask from someone! I hope you've not payed it yet! If you really have your heart set on her tell the family to fck off and invest the 'dowry' into a house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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