Pros And Cons Of Different Building Blocks

[Naam]

More mortar use , so lets count 30 baht cement extra ( which would mean quite a lot )

so double breeze block ... 130 baht /m2 and still 70baht cheaper /m2 .

Can you give me your cost comparison ??

i've built a rather big home which, like my former homes in tropical environments, is kept fully airconditioned at a comfortable level. that's why my priority was not "price of blocks per m²" but "comfort and saving energy". therefore any cost comparison was irrelevant.

[sezze]

My suspiscion was that, anything costing around 25bht to 30bht a piece is going to have a hard time justifyits value against something that cost 4bht a piece!

you get what you pay for. if you want to save money use rice straw and clay for the walls and palm fronds to thatch the roof.

question: did to take the size of the different blocks into consideration when comparing the prices? you did not? hmmmm...

I did not dothe cost /value comaprison for the red bricks ... they are not very good , due to small size / mortar usage.

For the breeze block , yes i did so .

breeze block : 40x20 cm = 12.5/m2 = 50b / m2 @ 4b/p

q-con : 60x20 cm = 8/m2 = 200b/m2 @ 25b/p

That is a whopping 150baht difference . That is single wall without mortar . Mortar for 1 sqm would be not more then 20 baht worth so i did not count it .

Double breeze block vs single q-con , smaller difference but still quite a bit :

breeze block =100 baht /m2

q-con = 200baht /m2 .

More mortar use , so lets count 30 baht cement extra ( which would mean quite a lot )

so double breeze block ... 130 baht /m2 and still 70baht cheaper /m2 .

Can you give me your cost comparison ??

Plus labor? More bricks per m2, two walls vs one.

Labor not included .

Now , this will be the make or break ... hahah . Let's see . Builder 300 baht a day . m2/day i do not not know but i guess they can do a few per day . Let's be serious . Breeze blocks are cheaper and therefore have the highest value of the building blocks in Thailand . Yes , they are not as strong as the q-cons , and yes they have worse insulation value , they do have however by far the best cost . Like i said , the rules change when price drops to 15 baht /piece , anything above the breeze block is the best value .

That is also why it is the prefered building material in Thailand . Anybody can choose it's materials for a home what they want ,but the facts remain . I like wooden homes ... but they are expensive and it's value is just not equal . You can build walls of 30cm reinforced concrete , extremely strong but mighty expensive . Many options are available but the breeze block is just the best value .

[sezze]

More mortar use , so lets count 30 baht cement extra ( which would mean quite a lot )

so double breeze block ... 130 baht /m2 and still 70baht cheaper /m2 .

Can you give me your cost comparison ??

i've built a rather big home which, like my former homes in tropical environments, is kept fully airconditioned at a comfortable level. that's why my priority was not "price of blocks per m²" but "comfort and saving energy". therefore any cost comparison was irrelevant.

Ah , ok ... that is fair . My home has single wall blocks , is normal sized and non airconned . Comfort and energy wise i think i do pretty good at avg 400 baht /month elec . I do not have hot walls , since i have many big doors to open for ventilation , and my roof is made out of steel sheets ( as colorbond ) ( does not stay warm at night ) with big overhangs .

I know a Bentley is a better car then a Kia , but both bring you from A to B .

[Naam]

Ah , ok ... that is fair . My home has single wall blocks , is normal sized and non airconned . Comfort and energy wise i think i do pretty good at avg 400 baht /month elec . I do not have hot walls , since i have many big doors to open for ventilation , and my roof is made out of steel sheets ( as colorbond ) ( does not stay warm at night ) with big overhangs .

I know a Bentley is a better car then a Kia , but both bring you from A to B .

right you are! by the way, i can nearly match your 400 Baht/month energy cost with my average 400-450 Baht/day.

[Naam]

Labor not included .

Now , this will be the make or break ... hahah . Let's see . Builder 300 baht a day . m2/day i do not not know but i guess they can do a few per day . Let's be serious . Breeze blocks are cheaper and therefore have the highest value of the building blocks in Thailand . Yes , they are not as strong as the q-cons , and yes they have worse insulation value , they do have however by far the best cost . Like i said , the rules change when price drops to 15 baht /piece , anything above the breeze block is the best value .

That is also why it is the prefered building material in Thailand . Anybody can choose it's materials for a home what they want ,but the facts remain . I like wooden homes ... but they are expensive and it's value is just not equal . You can build walls of 30cm reinforced concrete , extremely strong but mighty expensive . Many options are available but the breeze block is just the best value .

i'm not familiar with the Thai "breeze blocks" but they seem to be identical with the blocks called in Europe and the U.S. "hollow concrete blocks". if that is the case and the correct cement:aggregate mixture is used then they will match the strength of "q-con", perhaps they are even stronger.

pricewise and in handling (labour involved) they will beat "red bricks and lots of mortar" but can't beat "gas concrete" (e.g. the brands q-con or super block) in cost of labour and various other advantages.

[Iolare]

I built my house with Q-con blocks, but I decided to use double walls on the perimeter with air space between. Cost is always a consideration, but it wasn't my first consideration because construction is cheap here compared to where I came from (California). I wanted a comfortable house and I got it.

The hollow cavity walls allowed for the pipe and electricity runs to be easily installed and not imbedded in concrete. I didn't want any posts to be exposed on the walls, and the double wall construction accomplished that too. Also the wide window sills look good im my opinion and the light is more diffused coming into the house.

I paid attention to site orientation and landscaping, installed a lot of windows for cross ventilation and used high ceilings and large eaves. Ceilings were carefully insulated and the attic has good ventilation. All major rooms have wndows on either two or three sides (which makes for a complicated foot-print and roof design). I installed A/C, but aside from the initiial testing of it, I never have to use it. So the extra cost of construction will possibly be made up over time with the lower electricity bills. In any case I'm happy with the result using the Q-con blocks.

[rufanuf]

My suspiscion was that, anything costing around 25bht to 30bht a piece is going to have a hard time justifyits value against something that cost 4bht a piece!

you get what you pay for. if you want to save money use rice straw and clay for the walls and palm fronds to thatch the roof.

question: did to take the size of the different blocks into consideration when comparing the prices? you did not? hmmmm...

q cons are not 8 times the size, only about 30% bigger at best

[rufanuf]

I built my house with Q-con blocks, but I decided to use double walls on the perimeter with air space between. Cost is always a consideration, but it wasn't my first consideration because construction is cheap here compared to where I came from (California). I wanted a comfortable house and I got it.

The hollow cavity walls allowed for the pipe and electricity runs to be easily installed and not imbedded in concrete. I didn't want any posts to be exposed on the walls, and the double wall construction accomplished that too. Also the wide window sills look good im my opinion and the light is more diffused coming into the house.

I paid attention to site orientation and landscaping, installed a lot of windows for cross ventilation and used high ceilings and large eaves. Ceilings were carefully insulated and the attic has good ventilation. All major rooms have wndows on either two or three sides (which makes for a complicated foot-print and roof design). I installed A/C, but aside from the initiial testing of it, I never have to use it. So the extra cost of construction will possibly be made up over time with the lower electricity bills. In any case I'm happy with the result using the Q-con blocks.

If I go cavity, how big should the cavity be? And can I line the inner wall with reflective aluminium sheet?

[Kwasaki]

1. If I go cavity, how big should the cavity be?

2. And can I line the inner wall with reflective aluminium sheet?

1. The bigger the cavity the higher efficiency ( U value ) .

http://www.bangkokcompanies.com/asian_company_profiles/greatwall.htm

2. if you want to !! cannot see why you would want to do though.

[klikster]

^ Are we talking apples and orangutans here?

Are you denying the efftiveness of a radiant barrier?

[jvs]

I have seen breeze blocks installed two different ways.On way the open part to the bottom(,i think this is the way they are meant to be used)

and with the open side to the top and filled with cement.Not sure wich way is better.

My has has been built with 20cm q-blocks(superblock) for the ouside walls and 10cm block for the inner walls.I have full sun on some of the walls but i can never feel any heat coming through the wall.The windows are mirror glass and that also reflects alot of heat and in daylight hours

you can not look inside through the windows.

Insulating the roof will keep in alot of heat so your house will not cool off quikly in the evening,we installed nearly white roofing tiles and that helps a lot.

[sezze]

I have seen breeze blocks installed two different ways.On way the open part to the bottom(,i think this is the way they are meant to be used)

and with the open side to the top and filled with cement.Not sure wich way is better.

My has has been built with 20cm q-blocks(superblock) for the ouside walls and 10cm block for the inner walls.I have full sun on some of the walls but i can never feel any heat coming through the wall.The windows are mirror glass and that also reflects alot of heat and in daylight hours

you can not look inside through the windows.

Insulating the roof will keep in alot of heat so your house will not cool off quikly in the evening,we installed nearly white roofing tiles and that helps a lot.

Open side down is the way they are ment to be used . The cavity makes the breeze blocks have some insulation value , allthough not the same as the q-cons . When filling it up with cement /concrete or mortar , your wall is going to be very strong but have no insulation value at all , and the price will rise to high values .

As for doubling the wall , the bigger the cavity , the better .

The breeze blocks are no way as strong in Thailand as in Europe . They are brittle and do break quite easy , depending on which company they come from ( testing is the only way to know , drop 1 and you'll see ) . It's the blocks together with the cement rendering which makes the wall strong .

[bankruatsteve]

Well, if you want high quality construction - you have to pay for it. To me, it's ridiculous to think that can be done with low quality material. I don't know what Superblock costs where you live, but a year ago I bought the (I think it was) 17.5cm width size for 19-20 baht b/c that's the only size that was available easily. ie: the larger size was difficult to order. I went with double brick no cavity (in my opinion better than with cavity) and I'm "pretty sure" that was not much more expensive than using red brick double with the extra mortor, labor, ect. The builders LOVE the Superblock and so do I after 2 years. Say what you will, but it's just that much better.

[Naam]

^ Are we talking apples and orangutans here?

Are you denying the efftiveness of a radiant barrier?

basic solid state physics: a double wall of gas concrete blocks, closed on top to avoid air circulation, makes a radiant barrier as superfluous as are the boobs of a nun who vowed eternal celibacy.

[Naam]

Well, if you want high quality construction - you have to pay for it. To me, it's ridiculous to think that can be done with low quality material. I don't know what Superblock costs where you live, but a year ago I bought the (I think it was) 17.5cm width size for 19-20 baht b/c that's the only size that was available easily. ie: the larger size was difficult to order.

1. I went with double brick no cavity (in my opinion better than with cavity) and I'm "pretty sure" that was not much more expensive than using red brick double with the extra mortor, labor, ect.

2. The builders LOVE the Superblock and so do I after 2 years.

3.Say what you will, but it's just that much better.

1. me no like

2. me love too

3. me agree to mutt

[Naam]

I have seen breeze blocks installed two different ways.On way the open part to the bottom(,i think this is the way they are meant to be used)

and with the open side to the top and filled with cement.Not sure wich way is better.

My has has been built with 20cm q-blocks(superblock) for the ouside walls and 10cm block for the inner walls.I have full sun on some of the walls but i can never feel any heat coming through the wall.The windows are mirror glass and that also reflects alot of heat and in daylight hours

you can not look inside through the windows.

Insulating the roof will keep in alot of heat so your house will not cool off quikly in the evening,we installed nearly white roofing tiles and that helps a lot.

only an absolute dummy ignorant will insulate the roof without natural or preferably forced ventilation.

[klikster]

^ Are we talking apples and orangutans here?

Are you denying the efftiveness of a radiant barrier?

basic solid state physics: a double wall of gas concrete blocks, closed on top to avoid air circulation, makes a radiant barrier as superfluous as are the boobs of a nun who vowed eternal celibacy.

Whether that is fact or not; my comment was in response to a comment that responded to a post about a double wall of breeze-block.

[Kwasaki]

^ Are we talking apples and orangutans here?

Are you denying the efftiveness of a radiant barrier?

basic solid state physics: a double wall of gas concrete blocks, closed on top to avoid air circulation, makes a radiant barrier as superfluous as are the boobs of a nun who vowed eternal celibacy.

Whether that is fact or not; my comment was in response to a comment that responded to a post about a double wall of breeze-block.

Well !! you do what you think is best you can use what ever you like to create a barrier, there's a lot of fruity hype out there and there's mutiple ways to do a build.

Some people here have a limited buget not everyone is fortunate enough to afford high quality so it's also ridiculous to call cheaper materials low quality they can be just as effective if used correctly.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Kwasaki

[Daffy D]

Reading through this and other threads it seems that exterior cavity walls is the way to go.

The thing is how do you get air circulation in the cavity?

Do you put some air bricks along the bottom and top of the exterior wall? If so what sort?

[bankruatsteve]

If you really want a cavity - NO AIR circulation.

[Kwasaki]

Reading through this and other threads it seems that exterior cavity walls is the way to go.

The thing is how do you get air circulation in the cavity?

Do you put some air bricks along the bottom and top of the exterior wall? If so what sort?

Air bricks are used for venting a roof area above ceiling level and below raised ground floor areas, not within the cavity wall.

[klikster]

^ Are we talking apples and orangutans here?

Are you denying the efftiveness of a radiant barrier?

basic solid state physics: a double wall of gas concrete blocks, closed on top to avoid air circulation, makes a radiant barrier as superfluous as are the boobs of a nun who vowed eternal celibacy.

Whether that is fact or not; my comment was in response to a comment that responded to a post about a double wall of breeze-block.

Well !! you do what you think is best you can use what ever you like to create a barrier, there's a lot of fruity hype out there and there's mutiple ways to do a build.

Some people here have a limited buget not everyone is fortunate enough to afford high quality so it's also ridiculous to call cheaper materials low quality they can be just as effective if used correctly.

I think you are quoting the wrong poster. I never said anything close to " .. call cheaper materials low quality ..".

[Daffy D]

Reading through this and other threads it seems that exterior cavity walls is the way to go.

The thing is how do you get air circulation in the cavity?

Do you put some air bricks along the bottom and top of the exterior wall? If so what sort?

Air bricks are used for venting a roof area above ceiling level and below raised ground floor areas, not within the cavity wall.

I was thinking of the type they have on the exterior walls of houses in th UK. Can't say I've seen them over here, but probably not looking hard enough.

[Kwasaki]

call cheaper materials low quality[/b] ..".

I was refering to your barrier theory first part.

Second part ref materials was just a general comment not directed at you.

[Kwasaki]

Reading through this and other threads it seems that exterior cavity walls is the way to go.

Air bricks are used for venting a roof area above ceiling level and below raised ground floor areas, not within the cavity wall.

I was thinking of the type they have on the exterior walls of houses in th UK. Can't say I've seen them over here, but probably not looking hard enough.

Maybe you have not seen them here because most floor are solid concrete.

There are different types of venting for walls using filters but still keep an insulated cavity closed.

The air-brick picture on the right is venting the underneath of internal flooring.

The picture on the left is not quite right IMO.

[sezze]

Reading through this and other threads it seems that exterior cavity walls is the way to go.

Air bricks are used for venting a roof area above ceiling level and below raised ground floor areas, not within the cavity wall.

I was thinking of the type they have on the exterior walls of houses in th UK. Can't say I've seen them over here, but probably not looking hard enough.

Maybe you have not seen them here because most floor are solid concrete.

There are different types of venting for walls using filters but still keep an insulated cavity closed.

The air-brick picture on the right is venting the underneath of internal flooring.

The picture on the left is not quite right IMO.

It probably is the right picture, it is installed below the vapour barrier for venting underneath the floor like you said . The cavity between the walls is NOT vented , or you will loose it's purpose . Air is a good insulator , but only non moving air . That is the basic principle of most insulation material , trap air in bubbles or within it's cavities to create non moving air .

Also , and very important in Thailand , if you vent your cavity wall , you create the ideal playground for bugs ( anything from roaches to wasps to ants etc etc ) .

[Daffy D]

Ok! So no venting the cavity wall.

Cheers

[Kwasaki]

Maybe you have not seen them here because most floor are solid concrete.

There are different types of venting for walls using filters but still keep an insulated cavity closed.

The air-brick picture on the right is venting the underneath of internal flooring.

The picture on the left is not quite right IMO.

It probably is the right picture, it is installed below the vapour barrier for venting underneath the floor like you said . The cavity between the walls is NOT vented , or you will loose it's purpose . Air is a good insulator , but only non moving air . That is the basic principle of most insulation material , trap air in bubbles or within it's cavities to create non moving air .

Also , and very important in Thailand , if you vent your cavity wall , you create the ideal playground for bugs ( anything from roaches to wasps to ants etc etc ) .

No not right, left !! The left picture in " Daffy's " post on the left is not correct IMO, the picture in my post is correct as you have noticed below DPC, or drip tray level.

Wooden floors are vented in this way.

Insulation yes that's why bricks have frogs and block have holes.

There are venting devices similar to my post picture that have filter traps which stop Thailands bugs if you so wished.

Regards K

[Kwasaki]

Ok! So no venting the cavity wall.

Cheers

Yep !! use brick/block ties 60mm or 100mm cavity.

Insulate your upper ceiling level, vent your roof as in flow through, bug mesh internally.

[anterian]

One thing no one has mentioned is the modern super reflective paints to use on outside walls. I used an Australian brand, available in Thailand. It claimed to reflect 80% of incident radiation, my house is definitely cooler now.