Experiences In Moving To Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Red,

I hope that you have effectively severed your ties to the state where you lived so that you are not liable for state income taxes. As you probably know tax domicile rules vary from state to state and are not based on a common sense idea of where you live. For instance, you will want to surrender your US driver's license as soon as possible.

Captain, I believe you're right about different states having different interpretations/rules of what makes one (in their view) subject to that state's income tax...

But I'm not sure the notion of giving up one's driver's license is a necessary move. I'm most familiar with California, which is one of the more aggressive states in regards to seeking out income tax payers...

But in that state, as long as you're not living there and not doing business or owning property there or having some active (not passive) income source, then I think having a DL there is pretty irrelevant from an income tax standpoint.

[meatboy]

having met the wife 1989,we married 1990,so 22years,she came to live with me in the uk,i promised she could return to los anytime,after working her butt off 20years in uk,she achieved what she wanted by the time it was for me to retire.bought a house outright in the uk.and land and a 5mill.house in los,retired at 42 and has no worries,private pension at 55,state pension at 67,savings and a bright future.it has not been a bed of roses for farangs to find anything simple,from getting things done our way [building expecially] as we dont now anything.considering what money we plough into the economy to most of thai's we are nothing but what they step on.we love our life here but i fear for the future.this country should be booming with the money it generates,but like the 80's nothing is ploughed back in.and just to finnish do our embassy's ever comment on the way we are treated do they f-ck.

[bendix]

You are a very generous man, buying your wife a house with no strings attached. I prefer to rent.

Shameful post, which reveals more about you than I suspect you intended to reveal despite it being a snide attempt to belittle the OP, who has been married to his wife for 41 years.

[nocturn]

BTW, I should have added... that's one of the most invaluable things about ThaiVisa...

Being, if you learn to pay attention to the folks here who know their stuff on various subjects, it's a great place to sort out and navigate the differences between what you've been told you can and can't do vs. what you really can and can't do.

PS - I also should have added, congrats to the OP on 41 years and running with the same Thai wife...

I would think 41 years with any woman an achievement

[bendix]

. . . . from getting things done our way [building expecially] as we dont now anything.considering what money we plough into the economy to most of thai's we are nothing but what they step on.we love our life here but i fear for the future.this country should be booming with the money it generates,but like the 80's nothing is ploughed back in.and just to finnish do our embassy's ever comment on the way we are treated do they f-ck.

Yet another expat who seems to think Thailand owes him some favours for being here.

Let's dissect these few lines, shall we?

"from getting things done our way". A good starting point. What makes anyone think things here should be done 'our way'. Things are done the Thai way because it's Thailand. Is that so very hard to understand. It might not be the way you want it, it might not be as efficient as you would like, but it's the way it is and it works for them.

Next: the money we plough in. Yes, the old chestnut that because a few thousand westerners decide to grace Thailand with their presence, we are due some kind of royal welcome by way of gratitude. The economic contribution farang expats make to Thailand is neglible.

And as for the country booming, well it is. GDP in Thailand is massively higher in the UK than in pretty much any Anglo-Saxon country right now. Shops are full, cars are being bought, property is being invested in and the Thai Stock Exchange is doing very nicely aslo. Sure, income inequality persists, but it does so in any developing country, and in many advanced countries such as Hong Kong which has the highest level of income inequality anywhere in the world.

[meatboy]

. . . . from getting things done our way [building expecially] as we dont now anything.considering what money we plough into the economy to most of thai's we are nothing but what they step on.we love our life here but i fear for the future.this country should be booming with the money it generates,but like the 80's nothing is ploughed back in.and just to finnish do our embassy's ever comment on the way we are treated do they f-ck.

Yet another expat who seems to think Thailand owes him some favours for being here.

Let's dissect these few lines, shall we?

"from getting things done our way". A good starting point. What makes anyone think things here should be done 'our way'. Things are done the Thai way because it's Thailand. Is that so very hard to understand. It might not be the way you want it, it might not be as efficient as you would like, but it's the way it is and it works for them.

Next: the money we plough in. Yes, the old chestnut that because a few thousand westerners decide to grace Thailand with their presence, we are due some kind of royal welcome by way of gratitude. The economic contribution farang expats make to Thailand is neglible.

And as for the country booming, well it is. GDP in Thailand is massively higher in the UK than in pretty much any Anglo-Saxon country right now. Shops are full, cars are being bought, property is being invested in and the Thai Stock Exchange is doing very nicely aslo. Sure, income inequality persists, but it does so in any developing country, and in many advanced countries such as Hong Kong which has the highest level of income inequality anywhere in the world.

"he who pays the piper calls the tune" why are they building western style houses or havnt you noticed,if thailand is booming as you say where is the money going or dont you know,is thailand in debt or dont you know,cars being bought are they payed for or dont you know,property invested in you need to get about and see the empty shells and the unfinished mono-rail or havnt you noticed you make me want to lol.

[bendix]

. . . . from getting things done our way [building expecially] as we dont now anything.considering what money we plough into the economy to most of thai's we are nothing but what they step on.we love our life here but i fear for the future.this country should be booming with the money it generates,but like the 80's nothing is ploughed back in.and just to finnish do our embassy's ever comment on the way we are treated do they f-ck.

Yet another expat who seems to think Thailand owes him some favours for being here.

Let's dissect these few lines, shall we?

"from getting things done our way". A good starting point. What makes anyone think things here should be done 'our way'. Things are done the Thai way because it's Thailand. Is that so very hard to understand. It might not be the way you want it, it might not be as efficient as you would like, but it's the way it is and it works for them.

Next: the money we plough in. Yes, the old chestnut that because a few thousand westerners decide to grace Thailand with their presence, we are due some kind of royal welcome by way of gratitude. The economic contribution farang expats make to Thailand is neglible.

And as for the country booming, well it is. GDP in Thailand is massively higher in the UK than in pretty much any Anglo-Saxon country right now. Shops are full, cars are being bought, property is being invested in and the Thai Stock Exchange is doing very nicely aslo. Sure, income inequality persists, but it does so in any developing country, and in many advanced countries such as Hong Kong which has the highest level of income inequality anywhere in the world.

"he who pays the piper calls the tune" why are they building western style houses or havnt you noticed,if thailand is booming as you say where is the money going or dont you know,is thailand in debt or dont you know,cars being bought are they payed for or dont you know,property invested in you need to get about and see the empty shells and the unfinished mono-rail or havnt you noticed you make me want to lol.

I'd love to engage in reasoned debate with you, but I'm afraid your stream of consciousness writing style make it hard to work out what the hell you're talking about.

I think you have rambled on about the country's debt levels though. Thailand's debt is a fraction of that to the UK, a country with a similar sized population. You ask about cars being paid for? How many are paid for in the west, who's completely fake sense of financial superiority is based on the biggest credit binge in history.

You simply don't have a clue about how Asians invest in property. Those dark units are bought and paid for, usually in cash, by either rich Thais or other nationalities. If they weren't paid for, the developments would never materialise. Most Asians will hold collections of these, neither living in them nor renting them out, but wating years before offloading them when they can make a profit.

But as I said, I would make these arguments with you, but I suspect you won't have a clue what I'm talking about. Would you, lol (as you say).

[samran]

. . . . from getting things done our way [building expecially] as we dont now anything.considering what money we plough into the economy to most of thai's we are nothing but what they step on.we love our life here but i fear for the future.this country should be booming with the money it generates,but like the 80's nothing is ploughed back in.and just to finnish do our embassy's ever comment on the way we are treated do they f-ck.

Yet another expat who seems to think Thailand owes him some favours for being here.

Let's dissect these few lines, shall we?

"from getting things done our way". A good starting point. What makes anyone think things here should be done 'our way'. Things are done the Thai way because it's Thailand. Is that so very hard to understand. It might not be the way you want it, it might not be as efficient as you would like, but it's the way it is and it works for them.

Next: the money we plough in. Yes, the old chestnut that because a few thousand westerners decide to grace Thailand with their presence, we are due some kind of royal welcome by way of gratitude. The economic contribution farang expats make to Thailand is neglible.

And as for the country booming, well it is. GDP in Thailand is massively higher in the UK than in pretty much any Anglo-Saxon country right now. Shops are full, cars are being bought, property is being invested in and the Thai Stock Exchange is doing very nicely aslo. Sure, income inequality persists, but it does so in any developing country, and in many advanced countries such as Hong Kong which has the highest level of income inequality anywhere in the world.

"he who pays the piper calls the tune" why are they building western style houses or havnt you noticed,if thailand is booming as you say where is the money going or dont you know,is thailand in debt or dont you know,cars being bought are they payed for or dont you know,property invested in you need to get about and see the empty shells and the unfinished mono-rail or havnt you noticed you make me want to lol.

Meatboy is obviously comparing himself to the likes of PTT, Banpu, Thai bev etc, all multi billion dollar listed companies and at the heart of the Thai economy.

Though he probably likes to think that there will be a large crashing sound if he and his contemporaries left the country, the reality is there will barely be the noise of a sparrows fart and life would pretty much go on as per normal.

But what are you to expect of the anti-immigrant immigrants? Gods gift to Thailand but scourge of the earth back home.

[meatboy]

. . . . from getting things done our way [building expecially] as we dont now anything.considering what money we plough into the economy to most of thai's we are nothing but what they step on.we love our life here but i fear for the future.this country should be booming with the money it generates,but like the 80's nothing is ploughed back in.and just to finnish do our embassy's ever comment on the way we are treated do they f-ck.

Yet another expat who seems to think Thailand owes him some favours for being here.

Let's dissect these few lines, shall we?

"from getting things done our way". A good starting point. What makes anyone think things here should be done 'our way'. Things are done the Thai way because it's Thailand. Is that so very hard to understand. It might not be the way you want it, it might not be as efficient as you would like, but it's the way it is and it works for them.

Next: the money we plough in. Yes, the old chestnut that because a few thousand westerners decide to grace Thailand with their presence, we are due some kind of royal welcome by way of gratitude. The economic contribution farang expats make to Thailand is neglible.

And as for the country booming, well it is. GDP in Thailand is massively higher in the UK than in pretty much any Anglo-Saxon country right now. Shops are full, cars are being bought, property is being invested in and the Thai Stock Exchange is doing very nicely aslo. Sure, income inequality persists, but it does so in any developing country, and in many advanced countries such as Hong Kong which has the highest level of income inequality anywhere in the world.

"he who pays the piper calls the tune" why are they building western style houses or havnt you noticed,if thailand is booming as you say where is the money going or dont you know,is thailand in debt or dont you know,cars being bought are they payed for or dont you know,property invested in you need to get about and see the empty shells and the unfinished mono-rail or havnt you noticed you make me want to lol.

Meatboy is obviously comparing himself to the likes of PTT, Banpu, Thai bev etc, all multi billion dollar listed companies and at the heart of the Thai economy.

Though he probably likes to think that there will be a large crashing sound if he and his contemporaries left the country, the reality is there will barely be the noise of a sparrows fart and life would pretty much go on as per normal.

But what are you to expect of the anti-immigrant immigrants? Gods gift to Thailand but scourge of the earth back home.

dont you just love these armchair veiwers,two of a kind.

[samran]

armchair? Do explain.

[Mr Red]

Red,

I hope that you have effectively severed your ties to the state where you lived so that you are not liable for state income taxes. As you probably know tax domicile rules vary from state to state and are not based on a common sense idea of where you live. For instance, you will want to surrender your US driver's license as soon as possible.

My US state of record in Florida, which has no income tax, so fine there. We own a condo there and that is serving as our official US residence. Why would I ever want to give up my US drivers license? I want to maintain two official residences -- one here and one in Florida.

[meatboy]

armchair? Do explain.

antagonists.

[norrona]

I wonder what obstacles Mr Red actually managed to overcome?

So far he has failed to get a bank account in his own name, failed to buy a car, failed to get a driving licence, failed to rent a house and failed to get a yellow tabian ban book.

He did buy his wife a house, but that is a 'sort of failure' as when he came over here, he didn't want to buy one.

are you one of those people that when they see a person threatening suicide on top of a building stand at the bottom shouting 'jump-do it'

[Mr Red]

Thanks all for the interesting posts ... I find the negative posts to be humorous, as I typically have reading this forum for the last few years. It is so easy to take the negative view and think that we falangs are valued only for our money and not treated with respect in various ways, such as the inability to acquire certain priveleges or accomplish certain business functions. Over my 45 days in country now, as I encountered the various difficulities I discussed, I also started to take that same view. But then my wife and family here counseled a bit of jai yen-yen, and they are right. None of the things I mentioned were insurmountable, none were life-threatening, none were costing fortunes. Better to let it go and truly try to embrace the Thai culture here and just go with the flow.

I am happy with things are they are right now, and progress is being made on many fronts. I have a house (closed on it today), a car, a bank account, and beer in the fridge. My son and his wife are coming for a visit next month, friends later this month and we are embarking on our new life here as we planned for so long.

BTW -- at the satellite tambon office in Samut Prakon where my wife registered the tabien ban, they were very clear about what I needed to be added to the blue tabien ban, and it is this:

1) My passport/visa translated into Thai

2) The affidavit from the US embassy that I got saying I lived in this particular address, translated into Thai

3) Marriage license (we have Thai original)

4) Copy of my wife's ID card and Tabien ban

5) Two witnesses that know me and my wife can be one of those.

We are getting the official translations done tomorrow, and sometime in the next month, I will make a run at getting added to the Tabien ban and post the results.

Thanks for all the good info and discussion. Look forward to participating more often in TV.

[NancyL]

Hubby and I retired to Chiang Mai three years ago and didn't have anywhere near the problems of the poor OP. Hubby arrived with an 12-month O-A "retirement visa" and the Chicago consulate has just given me a 90-day O visa as a dependent, despite our each submitting the same paperwork and having well over 1.6 M baht in joint accounts. Oh well, our first order of business was to open the bank accounts to get me on the path to my own 12-month retirement extension, so my visa status wouldn't be dependent upon his.

It helps that here in Chiang Mai you can take care of much business, in person, at either of the two malls. We just went to the Bangkok Bank branch at Kad Suan Kaew with our passports and business card from the serviced apartment where we were staying. Oh, we had $10,000 in U.S. currency, too. That may have helped. We walked out with three accounts -- one blue passbook joint account, one orange passbook fixed account for my 800,000 baht retirement account and another orange passbook account in Hubby's name where we keep a some funds solely in his name in case something happens to me and he can't access the joint account. The only "hang-up" was the lack of a mobile phone number which we quickly remedied with a visit to a mobile phone shop in the mall.

Our biggest problem in setting up bank accounts was in getting our U.S. credit union to wire transfer the funds. They insisted the forms had to be faxed, not scanned and emailed, yet they turned off their fax machine at night! And the night-time worker at the Chiang Mai fax/internet shop seemed incapable of sending an international fax. Finally we convinced the U.S. credit union to leave the fax machine on for just one night so the daytime A-team at the internet shop could send the fax.

Two weeks after opening the bank accounts we signed a one-year lease on a condo, just steps from the mall. One afternoon at the mall and we'd set up internet, phone and TV service. It did take a trip to the electric company to get the account transferred over to our name; they really should open an office at the malls!

We have no intention to drive, but got a TDL to use as an I.D. Letter of residency from Immigration and color blind certificate from hospital was all it took. Oh yeah, a trip to the drivers license place. They really should open an office at the malls!

We were amazed at how easy the whole settlement process was. It would have taken hours of running around, waiting on hold in voice mail hell, being told to go to different offices, to do the same activities in the U.S.

No need for blue or yellow books. No need to buy a home. Hubby and I have been together for 35 years and I sure wouldn't want all our funds in Thailand tied up in an asset in his name -- an asset that I could never own if he died.

I've seen other foreigners have "problems" in getting settled and in every instance they're being "helped" by a Thai person, a person who speaks Thai at the bank, internet company, etc when the staffer they're addressing speaks OK English. Often these Thai helpers operate services that help newcomers to settle. I think it's in their interests to make it seem like a mysterious, complex process. Sometimes they're being helped by Thais who may have good intentions, couldn't get themselves settled in a new city, let alone help a foreigner to do it.

[ludditeman]

I've seen other foreigners have "problems" in getting settled and in every instance they're being "helped" by a Thai person, a person who speaks Thai at the bank, internet company, etc when the staffer they're addressing speaks OK English. Often these Thai helpers operate services that help newcomers to settle. I think it's in their interests to make it seem like a mysterious, complex process. Sometimes they're being helped by Thais who may have good intentions, couldn't get themselves settled in a new city, let alone help a foreigner to do it.

Just as I said, but I have thought of another reason this happens.

Thai person told by the person in the bank (etc.) assumes the person saying 'NO' is competent and just accepts the rejection.

Whereas we western people hang around and argue potentially forcing a huge loss of face on everyone involved if we aren't quickly placated, so easier to comply with our requests.

I was faced with this in a bank, when I wanted a particular bank account," cannot only for Thai person", they said, "why is the website advertising the account in English", I said. Account opened.

I was also faced with this when I applied for my kids birth certificate at the Amphur office, without the proper paperwork (the Tabian Ban owner should have been there, the kids name didn't conform to the required standards), I just stood there with the documents in my hand (speaking no Thai), they had a furious arguement amonst themselves saying I couldn't get the birth certificate with what I had, in the end, the head of the Amphur office just told them, as I didn't look like going away, they should just do it anyway. Birth Certificate issued. (I always pretend to not understand any Thai)

Edited February 9, 2012 by ludditeman

[MJo]

Thanks all for the interesting posts ... I find the negative posts to be humorous, as I typically have reading this forum for the last few years. It is so easy to take the negative view and think that we falangs are valued only for our money and not treated with respect in various ways, such as the inability to acquire certain priveleges or accomplish certain business functions. Over my 45 days in country now, as I encountered the various difficulities I discussed, I also started to take that same view. But then my wife and family here counseled a bit of jai yen-yen, and they are right. None of the things I mentioned were insurmountable, none were life-threatening, none were costing fortunes. Better to let it go and truly try to embrace the Thai culture here and just go with the flow.

I am happy with things are they are right now, and progress is being made on many fronts. I have a house (closed on it today), a car, a bank account, and beer in the fridge. My son and his wife are coming for a visit next month, friends later this month and we are embarking on our new life here as we planned for so long.

BTW -- at the satellite tambon office in Samut Prakon where my wife registered the tabien ban, they were very clear about what I needed to be added to the blue tabien ban, and it is this:

1) My passport/visa translated into Thai

2) The affidavit from the US embassy that I got saying I lived in this particular address, translated into Thai

3) Marriage license (we have Thai original)

4) Copy of my wife's ID card and Tabien ban

5) Two witnesses that know me and my wife can be one of those.

We are getting the official translations done tomorrow, and sometime in the next month, I will make a run at getting added to the Tabien ban and post the results.

Thanks for all the good info and discussion. Look forward to participating more often in TV.

That list sounds right. Although it will be yellow book, getting your name to blue one without having PR or Thai nationality and you'd be the first one ever. Most likely will get you a honorary member status right away here in Thai Visa

Regardless, yellow or blue they both do the trick. Act as proof of your address.

I remember having to get the translations stamped and ministry of foreign affairs in Chaeng Wattana as well. So that might also be the case in your area.

[WarpSpeed]

You are a very generous man, buying your wife a house with no strings attached. I prefer to rent.

41 years of marriage deserves some trust don't you think?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have some personal reservations, born of direct experience, as to whether BKK Bank is a particularly good place for farang to do their local banking business. In quite a few different settings, I've found them to be exceedingly unhelpful and bureaucratic.

But, one good thing BKK Bank has done is create a page on their English language web site that clearly spells out their policy and requirements for opening bank accounts for farangs.

Under their policy, pretty much anyone with proper ID is able to open at least a savings account with them. There's absolutely no need to have a work permit in order to open a savings account with BKK Bank...

Unfortunately, that's the only web page of its kind that I've seen among the various Thai banks. And the branch staff at the different banks and branches often seem to be woefully unfamiliar with their own company rules on such things....

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Foreign%20Customers/Pages/Opening%20an%20account%20new.aspx#11

[NanLaew]

... But what are you to expect of the anti-immigrant immigrants? Gods gift to Thailand but scourge of the earth back home.

dont you just love these armchair veiwers,two of a kind.

Yup... but they got you in a nutshell.

[ludditeman]

You are a very generous man, buying your wife a house with no strings attached. I prefer to rent.

41 years of marriage deserves some trust don't you think?

You would think so, and I did trust someone I was married to for 32 years, but I was subsequently proven wrong.

What is it the investment people tell us, "previous performance is no indication of future returns".

are you one of those people that when they see a person threatening suicide on top of a building stand at the bottom shouting 'jump-do it'

Off topic but I will reply.

I'm one of those people that walks away because blood is hard to clean off clothing.

Edited February 10, 2012 by ludditeman

[Mr Red]

You know ludditeman, I really do feel sorry that you are so bitter and mistrustful of people and find it difficult to believe people can be happy and just like to have normal conversations without biting criticism. But then that is the primary reason I have not posted much to TV over the several years I have been a member.

[ludditeman]

You know ludditeman, I really do feel sorry that you are so bitter and mistrustful of people and find it difficult to believe people can be happy and just like to have normal conversations without biting criticism. But then that is the primary reason I have not posted much to TV over the several years I have been a member.

Not so much biting criticism, more a warning to be careful and not take everything at face value.

I enjoy life here tremendously, have made many good friends while here, and have a beautiful wife and baby.

I have also seen some more trusting than me, lose everything, or in the process of losing everything.

You can live here happily, but you really must be careful.

Statistically (as a man)

The person most likely to steal from you is not a mugger, burgler or bank robber.

But your wife (50% of marriages end in divorce), she will even steal your home and children.

Edited February 10, 2012 by ludditeman

[necronx99]

You know ludditeman, I really do feel sorry that you are so bitter and mistrustful of people and find it difficult to believe people can be happy and just like to have normal conversations without biting criticism. But then that is the primary reason I have not posted much to TV over the several years I have been a member.

Not so much biting criticism, more a warning to be careful and not take everything at face value.

I enjoy life here tremendously, have made many good friends while here, and have a beautiful wife and baby.

I have also seen some more trusting than me, lose everything, or in the process of losing everything.

You can live here happily, but you really must be careful.

Statistically (as a man)

The person most likely to steal from you is not a mugger, burgler or bank robber.

But your wife (50% of marriages end in divorce), she will even steal your home and children.

You idiot. He has been married 41 yrs.

[WarpSpeed]

You are a very generous man, buying your wife a house with no strings attached. I prefer to rent.

41 years of marriage deserves some trust don't you think?

You would think so, and I did trust someone I was married to for 32 years, but I was subsequently proven wrong.

What is it the investment people tell us, "previous performance is no indication of future returns".

are you one of those people that when they see a person threatening suicide on top of a building stand at the bottom shouting 'jump-do it'

Off topic but I will reply.

I'm one of those people that walks away because blood is hard to clean off clothing.

Bit jaded eh? That type of cynicism can be applied in any situation and to anyone but at some point if you can't trust your mate well then you can't trust anyone..

[MJo]

It is pretty sad, if you look closely or just look in the first place you see many members that been burned in the west and seem to find it very hard to let it go.

Anyhoo we are way off topic so welcome to OP and good luck with the retirement.

[CaptHaddock]

Red,

I hope that you have effectively severed your ties to the state where you lived so that you are not liable for state income taxes. As you probably know tax domicile rules vary from state to state and are not based on a common sense idea of where you live. For instance, you will want to surrender your US driver's license as soon as possible.

I had never heard that about a US drivers license...Could you expand on what the implications are?

In many states tax domicile rules hinge on the "intent to return." So, that any evidence that can be construed as implying an intent to return may be grounds for the state to assert tax liability. Although I haven't encountered a specific example where the driver's license itself decided the issue, I did read in case writeups of tax domicile audits performed by New York state that encouraged extreme caution. The case in question concerned a NY couple who bought an apartment in Florida and spent the winters there, but retained their apartment in NY (which alone does not establish tax domicile.) Although the did not spend more than the specified 180 days per year in NY state, in the telephone interview that was part of the audit the wife referred to returning to NY as "going home." The audit was decided against them.

Neither have I heard a case where voting established tax domicile, but I am wary of it because how would you defend the position that you are a resident for voting purposes, but not for taxation? Keep in mind that the states are starved for cash currently and may become more aggressive in collecting taxes.

[CaptHaddock]

Red,

I hope that you have effectively severed your ties to the state where you lived so that you are not liable for state income taxes. As you probably know tax domicile rules vary from state to state and are not based on a common sense idea of where you live. For instance, you will want to surrender your US driver's license as soon as possible.

Captain, I believe you're right about different states having different interpretations/rules of what makes one (in their view) subject to that state's income tax...

But I'm not sure the notion of giving up one's driver's license is a necessary move. I'm most familiar with California, which is one of the more aggressive states in regards to seeking out income tax payers...

But in that state, as long as you're not living there and not doing business or owning property there or having some active (not passive) income source, then I think having a DL there is pretty irrelevant from an income tax standpoint.

TallGuy,

Here is a document from the State of California listing criteria to establish tax domicile,

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=california%20tax%20domicile%20audit%20criteria&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ftb.ca.gov%2FaboutFTB%2Fmanuals%2Faudit%2Frstm%2F2000.pdf&ei=v9Y1T86EIseviQfG7MilAg&usg=AFQjCNFn4i8UtZJ34yk9v-FwMRyDjm2FUw

including:

In the Appeal of Stephen D. Bragg 2003-SBE-002, May 28, 2003, the Board of Equalization

included the following list of factors which, while not exhaustive, inform taxpayers of the

type and nature of connections the Board of Equalization and the Franchise Tax Board find

informative when determining residency:

The state wherein the taxpayer maintains a driver's license.

The state wherein the taxpayer maintains voter registration and the taxpayer's voting

participation history.

The state wherein the taxpayer obtains professional services, such as doctors, dentists,

accountants, and attorneys.

In my opinion, it is not worth the risk. It is important to severe all ties to the state in which you lived. If you come from VA, even that will not be enough.

[CaptHaddock]

Red,

I hope that you have effectively severed your ties to the state where you lived so that you are not liable for state income taxes. As you probably know tax domicile rules vary from state to state and are not based on a common sense idea of where you live. For instance, you will want to surrender your US driver's license as soon as possible.

My US state of record in Florida, which has no income tax, so fine there. We own a condo there and that is serving as our official US residence. Why would I ever want to give up my US drivers license? I want to maintain two official residences -- one here and one in Florida.

As long as your NY house is in Florida or another no-income tax state, you don't have any problem. Most Americans however live in states that do tax income and avoiding income tax liability after moving abroad is not entirely based on common sense.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Captain, your post deserved a full list of the CA criteria that the 2009 document you linked to provides:

In the Appeal of Stephen D. Bragg 2003-SBE-002, May 28, 2003, the Board of Equalization included the following list of factors which, while not exhaustive, inform taxpayers of the type and nature of connections the Board of Equalization and the Franchise Tax Board find informative when determining residency:

 The location of all of the taxpayer's residential real property, and the approximate sizes and values of each of the residences.

 The state wherein the taxpayer's spouse and children reside.

 The state wherein the taxpayer's children attend school.

 The state wherein the taxpayer claims the homeowner's property tax exemption on a residence.

 The taxpayer's telephone records (i.e., the origination point of taxpayer's telephone calls).

 The number of days the taxpayer spends in California versus the number of days the taxpayer spends in other states, and the general purpose of such days (i.e., vacation, business, etc.).

 The location where the taxpayer files his tax returns, both federal and state, and the state of residence claimed by the taxpayer on such returns.

 The location of the taxpayer's bank and savings accounts.

 The origination point of the taxpayer's checking account transactions and credit card transactions.

 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains memberships in social, religious, and professional organizations.

 The state wherein the taxpayer registers his automobiles.

 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains a driver's license.

 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains voter registration and the taxpayer's voting participation history.

 The state wherein the taxpayer obtains professional services, such as doctors, dentists, accountants, and attorneys.

 The state wherein the taxpayer is employed.

 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains or owns business interests.

 The state wherein the taxpayer holds a professional license or licenses.

 The state wherein the taxpayer owns investment real property.

 The indications in affidavits from various individuals discussing the taxpayer's residency.

It is particularly relevant to determine whether the taxpayer substantially severed his or her California connections upon departure and took steps to establish significant connections with the new place of abode. It is also necessary to determine whether the connections in California were maintained in readiness for his or her return. See the Appeal of Richard L. and Kathleen K. Hardman, supra.

Whether a person was in California for other than a temporary or transitory purpose must be determined by examining all of the facts. Mere formalisms such as changing voting registration to another state or statements to the effect that the taxpayer intended to be a resident of another state are not controlling. See the Appeal of Tyrus R. Cobb, 1959-SBE-014, March 26, 1959.

Note that retention of some contacts such as bank accounts and a driver's license may only be a reflection of the taxpayer's past and may not be inconsistent with an absence for other than temporary or transitory purposes. See the Appeal of Richard L. and Kathleen K. Hardman, supra.

Note the above pgh that I've highlighted.... It pretty well suggests that just keeping a CA drivers license, absent other connections, is not going to pose a CA tax problem.

When you consider the entirety of the above list of criteria, I'd say most people legitimately living in Thailand full-time aren't going to have a problem, assuming they're not running a business or having property ownerships in state.

Edited February 12, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK