Retirement Visa Expired - Renew In Thailand?

[MilesCh]

I have had a retirement visa for 6 years. In 2011 I returned to the USA to sell my small business in order to live full time in Chiang Mai. Late in the year I had some medical problems and the docs insisted I remain in the States until they were cured (minor surgery - and I have letters from them explaining this).

In the meantime my visa expired on the 7th of February 2012. I am now ready to return and have a plane reservation for arrival in Chiang Mai on 19 Feb. And I have prepared all paperwork to mail to the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles; however they say it will take two weeks plus mail time (overnight). I am scheduled to leave with utilities turned off, move out of current apartment, sold car, etc., etc. A 2nd difficulty is that I have not been able to email the Bangkok Bank to receive a letter or a current statement, or even print a statement on line -- have been trying without luck for a week.

Apparently the timing is not right for the Consulate's office. A lady at the BKK Bank in New York told me she has seen many people in my state and they have arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa and applied late for renewal of the resident visa and it was provided. The Consulate's office tells me that is not possible.

Does anyone have any good news for me? Or an alternative method?

[MilesCh]

One thought I had would be to attempt to obtain a 60 or 90-day tourist visa, or even with a 30-day visa, and if necessary fly out to Hong Kong or elsewhere for visa renewal at the Consulate in that country. If in person it may be a short stay, as opposed to 2 weeks, I don't know.

[TerryLH]

Exactly what kind of visa are you trying to get? An O-A Visa for retirement?

That's not needed. An O visa will serve your purpose. Or even a Tourist visa will get you where you want to go, just in a round about way.

With an O visa you'll get 90 days permission to stay when you enter. That gives you plenty of time to get your financials in order if you need it.

Within the last 30 days of that permission to stay, visit the immigration office in CM and apply for a year extension. The same stuff is required as before.

With a tourist visa, there is a 2 step process that first has immigration giving you a 90 day permission to stay, then with about 30 days left you apply for the retirement extension. All the same documents required as during the last 6 years.

When you apply, don't say 'resident visa'.

You want a Non Immigration O for the purpose of extending for retirement, or a tourist visa.

Good luck.

[Jingthing]

You can enter Thailand using a 30 day stamp or tourist visa and in Chiang Mai do the two step process. Step 1: change of visa status to O visa (not an O-A). Step 2: annual extension based on retirement. That could be done in the same day if you are qualified. Sounds like you are using the bank account method. To get the retirement extension in Thailand, the 800K needs to be seasoned in a Thai bank account for two months for the first extension, three months for subsequent ones. In this scenario getting a new O visa, you're starting over, so its a first extension. If you intend to arrive with no visa, you'll need to have a throwaway air ticket out of Thailand leaving within 30 days to be allowed to board the airplane in the US. I am also unclear on what you've been doing for six years, getting extensions, getting repeated O-As in the US, you really didn't tell us. In any case, you have a plan now if you are financially qualified to do this in Thailand.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

As said even a tourist visa can be used but better to get single entry non immigrant O visa from honorary Consulate such as Portland, OR. Then after 60 days here you extend with the proof of money (not needed for the visa).

[Langsuan Man]

I would try the Embassy in Washington D.C. , they will do overnight service so long as you provide a US Postal Service Express Mail return envelope. They don't require you to notarize all your documents as LA does, so all you need to do is to print out your current balance from your Bangkok Bank account page (hopefully you have Internet banking from BB). Just follow their instructions and provide them with the correct number of copies they require and you should easily make your deadline and will have a O-A Visa (Long Stay) good for one year and if you get the multi entry variety you can stretched that out to be valid for close to two years with one border run

Los Angeles is notorious for making up their own rules for issuing visa's of all types, so don't deal with them, deal with the Embassy instead

[wayned]

I would try to get a Non-O for retiremnt planning through the Honorary consulate in Portland, but you are quickly running out of time if your flight is next Sunday. The Portland info is attached. I would call Mary in the morning , expalin the situation and see if it can be done in time. If not, use the visa exept entry and convert to O and extend once you get here.

Visa application porcedures, Portland Oregon.doc

Edited February 13, 2012 by wayned

[NancyL]

Jingthing's advice is spot on for Chiang Mai. You do not need to leave Thailand once you've returned to get yourself a new "retirement" visa. You will not be "renewing" your old visa late. It will be starting over, getting a 90 day O visa (either before or after you arrive in Thailand) and then extending it for 12 months due to retirement during the final 30 days of that 90 day visa.

If it were me, I wouldn't sweat it. Sounds like the OP has got more than enough to remain busy before going to Thailand without the trauma of trying to influence the actions of a Thai bank and consulate via phone and email. I'd just buy a "throw-away" ticket to make it appear you are leaving within 30 days of arrival and then visit Bangkok Bank and the nice folks at Chiang Mai Immigration within a week or so of arriving. It's much easier to accomplish business with both these parties, in person, in Chiang Mai where your situation is very common.

Note to the OP: you are not actually going to use that "throw-away" ticket for travel. It's just to show the airline that you're planning to leave Thailand during the 30 day visa exempt period. Just buy the cheapest ticket you can find. There's a good chance the airline won't even ask to see it, but better to have it than to rush around the airport before your flight to Thailand trying to buy a ticket to someplace cheap.

[MilesCh]

Thanks everyone for the great assistance. FYI, I'm not using the pure bank account method as I only have 600,000 in the Thai bank, so using that plus outside bank account plus income tax for 2011, plus proof of social security & retirement income.

Today is Monday the 13th, my flight is the 17th, so I don't believe there's sufficient time and it may be best to pay the $145 to cancel the Korean Air flight & obtain a new one a week or so later -- which is a hardship, but can be done, that is if they have another based on mileage in my time frame. If not will need to change to Cathay Pacific and fly in through BKK with baggage & extra baggage booked on Thai Intl through to CNX. Don't know if Customs will allow extra baggage in on a tourist or O visa, so perhaps best to fly KE into CM if they have a flight available and perhaps this delay will suffice for the O-A retirement visa to be issued at LA -- all paperwork is complete including notarization, only don't have signed letter from BKK Bank which I understand from BKK Bank in NYC is common and people simply fly in (presumably on a tourist visa) and obtain it there -- but with that method may be difficult with excess baggage.

[Jingthing]

Anyway ... if you do decide to handle this in Chiang Mai, using the COMBO method, which involves showing your income "proven" by a letter from the American consulate in Chiang Mai (you don't have to prove anything to them, just sign a form stating you are being truthful), then you don't need any seasoning period for the Thai bank account portion to get your annual extension based on retirement at Thai immigration CM. This assumes your income letter will show under 800K per annum. For example, if the income is 600K then you can show the remaining 200K in a THAI bank account, proven by a letter obtained from your home branch of your Thai bank in Thailand. Or, you can go with a new O-A obtained in the US.

Regarding your imminent flight, I know it is dramatic, but it seems you COULD board it if:

-- you purchase a cheap throwaway ticket to Malaysia for example leaving less than 30 days after your Thailand arrival date (this would mean entering on a 30 day stamp

-- upon arrival, get your American consulate income letter ASAP

-- this assumes you have a Thai bank account with a home branch IN THAILAND with the funds to total over 800K when adding the amount from your income letter from the consulate

-- get a bank letter for immigration stating your balance

-- go to immigration promptly and apply for the two step process.

-- First, change of visa status from 30 day stamp to 0

-- Second, application for annual extension based on retirement

If you are moving to Thailand full time, why do you think you need to continue to get new O-A visas from the USA?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I want to add a note to the OP. If going the route of needing an income letter from the American consulate in CM, you do need an appointment for that. If arriving on a 30 day stamp there is a rush to move this along and get the application into immigration promptly. I don't know the current CM rule on the minimum number of days left on a permission of stay required to accept a "Step 1" change of visa status application, but the concept here is arrive in CM and rush to get this done. If for some reason the process can't be accomplished in the 30 days, the OP could do an air border run and get another 30 days or apply for a non-O (not O-A of course) very easily in Laos or Malaysia. Here is the site explaining making appointments:

http://chiangmai.usc...pointments.html

Edited February 14, 2012 by Jingthing

[NancyL]

Thanks everyone for the great assistance. FYI, I'm not using the pure bank account method as I only have 600,000 in the Thai bank, so using that plus outside bank account plus income tax for 2011, plus proof of social security & retirement income.

Today is Monday the 13th, my flight is the 17th, so I don't believe there's sufficient time and it may be best to pay the $145 to cancel the Korean Air flight & obtain a new one a week or so later -- which is a hardship, but can be done, that is if they have another based on mileage in my time frame. If not will need to change to Cathay Pacific and fly in through BKK with baggage & extra baggage booked on Thai Intl through to CNX. Don't know if Customs will allow extra baggage in on a tourist or O visa, so perhaps best to fly KE into CM if they have a flight available and perhaps this delay will suffice for the O-A retirement visa to be issued at LA -- all paperwork is complete including notarization, only don't have signed letter from BKK Bank which I understand from BKK Bank in NYC is common and people simply fly in (presumably on a tourist visa) and obtain it there -- but with that method may be difficult with excess baggage.

Jingthing's right -- just buy a "throw away" ticket to any place out of Thailand that's cheap and board your flight as originally planned. Also, he's right in that getting into the American consulate to get the income letter could be a "bottleneck". Go online now and make your appointment. They'll let you book at least a month in advance. No need to change your arrangements.

[DogNo1]

FWIW, for a throwaway ticket, BKK -KUL tickets from Air Asia are available on-line for $161 and can be bought with a credit card. No need to delay your departure or rush any documents that way. Checking the US consulate appointment schedule in Chiang Mai, the following days are open for appointments: Feb 21, Feb 23 and Feb. 28. You can make an appointment on-line right now. You could easily keep your present departure schedule and get your documents done once you arrive in Chiang Mai. Good luck and Bon Voyage!

[TerryLH]

"...by a letter obtained from your home branch of your Thai bank in Thailand."

Aren't some people in Bangkok reporting that they've used the bank offices in the same building as the immigration office? I doubt that those banks are the home branch for most of them.

[lopburi3]

You normally obtain from your local branch or home branch visa another branch. At Chiang Watanna believe all the bank branch offices there can issue immediately.

[Jingthing]

"...by a letter obtained from your home branch of your Thai bank in Thailand."

Aren't some people in Bangkok reporting that they've used the bank offices in the same building as the immigration office? I doubt that those banks are the home branch for most of them.

It is my strong impression that the IMMIGRATION LETTER from the bank needed when using banked money for immigration requirements is sometimes only obtainable at the home branch of your account. Where you opened your account. I am not in a position to know the specific policies of every bank and bank branch in Thailand. Certainly, you definitely can get the letter from the home branch. Any other branch, possibly not, at least there have been reports of people having problems with that over the years. It's something people should be concerned about and learn the policies that apply to them. For example, if I had a home branch account in Phuket, I would be concerned if a branch in CM could issue the letter, and at the very least I would go in and ASK them well before it was actually needed. Edited February 15, 2012 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

Actually believe we are talking two 'homes' here. One is the account home and the other the bank home office. You can always get at bank home office and should be able to obtain from account home office. Another branch should be able to act as conduct to obtain from bank home office; and as proven at Chiang Watanna can issue if they so desire.

[Jingthing]

Actually believe we are talking two 'homes' here. One is the account home and the other the bank home office. You can always get at bank home office and should be able to obtain from account home office. Another branch should be able to act as conduct to obtain from bank home office; and as proven at Chiang Watanna can issue if they so desire.

If I'm wrong that there sometimes is a problem around this issue as I have read some reports over the years, I stand corrected. In any case, the OP if he is actually arriving using a 30 day stamp and would be in a rush to gather his application documents doesn't need any complications. Cheers. Edited February 15, 2012 by Jingthing

[MilesCh]

Since all the paperwork and formalities were done, I changed the flight for a week later (for $100) and FedEx the paper next day to the LA consulate. Cost for next day delivery about $29. Plus I'll need to yet pay for overnite return of the passport. The gentleman at the consulate is certain he can do it in a week if I call him in the morning to alert him of it's arrival. And on the phone I've explained the shortcomings with the lack of signed BKK accoung balance which he doesn't consider a difficulty since I have had a retirement visa for several years plus all of the social security and retirement income plus income tax form is included.

And we must bear in mind that next Monday is Presidents' Day holiday.

Difficulties had were that the PO had only one window clerk at 1600 and closes at 1500 so at 1450 with a long long remaining in front of me I departed to the bank to obtain a check. Went to 4 banks who refused since I didn't have an account even if I offered to pay in cash! And BofA where I have 2 credit cards (for the moment), but no longer a bank account because they were a ripoff also refused, even refusing cash as they must deduct the amount from an account. My bank is Schwab, but they refused over the phone to issue a check -- yet previously I had been told personally that they sometimes do issue a check. So much for American banks!!!

Then tried to ship -- PO was too busy and I had to leave for a bank before closing. FedEx/Kinkos will not issue a return prepaid envelope for the passport unless one has an account -- which I had just closed when the business was sold. UPS closed out shipments at 3:00. Back to FedEx and found that I could send PPD envelope from main office. Went there and shipped next day to LA with return PPD envelope. However PPD return is not that; it's using a credit card # and doubtful that's acceptable with Thai Consul. But sent anyway and will call them in the morning to ascertain if they'll return passport with credit charge charge. If not, will go to PO and attempt to send PPD envelope.

Wow, time to relax so went to a nice restaurant and had a bite to eat and a few glasses of wine and now the whole world is rosey!

[NancyL]

Since all the paperwork and formalities were done, I changed the flight for a week later (for $100) and FedEx the paper next day to the LA consulate. Cost for next day delivery about $29. Plus I'll need to yet pay for overnite return of the passport. The gentleman at the consulate is certain he can do it in a week if I call him in the morning to alert him of it's arrival. And on the phone I've explained the shortcomings with the lack of signed BKK accoung balance which he doesn't consider a difficulty since I have had a retirement visa for several years plus all of the social security and retirement income plus income tax form is included.

And we must bear in mind that next Monday is Presidents' Day holiday.

Difficulties had were that the PO had only one window clerk at 1600 and closes at 1500 so at 1450 with a long long remaining in front of me I departed to the bank to obtain a check. Went to 4 banks who refused since I didn't have an account even if I offered to pay in cash! And BofA where I have 2 credit cards (for the moment), but no longer a bank account because they were a ripoff also refused, even refusing cash as they must deduct the amount from an account. My bank is Schwab, but they refused over the phone to issue a check -- yet previously I had been told personally that they sometimes do issue a check. So much for American banks!!!

Then tried to ship -- PO was too busy and I had to leave for a bank before closing. FedEx/Kinkos will not issue a return prepaid envelope for the passport unless one has an account -- which I had just closed when the business was sold. UPS closed out shipments at 3:00. Back to FedEx and found that I could send PPD envelope from main office. Went there and shipped next day to LA with return PPD envelope. However PPD return is not that; it's using a credit card # and doubtful that's acceptable with Thai Consul. But sent anyway and will call them in the morning to ascertain if they'll return passport with credit charge charge. If not, will go to PO and attempt to send PPD envelope.

Wow, time to relax so went to a nice restaurant and had a bite to eat and a few glasses of wine and now the whole world is rosey!

Oh poor baby! Now you're seeing why I recommend that Americans just wait until they arrive in the loving embrace of the Thai people of Chiang Mai to take care of all these details. And there are fewer details to take care of if you're coverting a visa-exempt into a retirement visa in Chiang Mai.

At least the wine's cheaper in the U.S. (normally)

[wayned]

Nancy,

He's made his dission that's what he wants to do so be it! Let him go on without your motherly love!

[NancyL]

Nancy,

He's made his dission that's what he wants to do so be it! Let him go on without your motherly love!

Oh, yes! Some people you just can't help!

[DogNo1]

Well, he can perhaps be comforted by the fact that if he doesn't get his "O" visa done in time it can always be done in Chiang Mai.

[Jingthing]

For people other than to OP who is going for an O-A visa who are reading this thread, in case you don't know, there is a potential BIG disadvantage to the O-A route. If you are here on an O-A (which typically people stretch the multi-entry ones to a two year stay with strategic exit and entry) and the financial requirements are raised during that time, you are not yet in the Thai immigration system IN Thailand. Which means for your next O-A or your first extension based on retirement in Thailand, you will be stuck with the new higher requirements. Historical precedent suggests those already in the retirement EXTENSION system with be "grandfathered" in (how apt) on their current, lower levels.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

I am not sure that would be true as the "A" in O-A stands for "pre-approved extension of stay for one year on entry" so he could be considered as in the system in such a case.

[Jingthing]

I am not sure that would be true as the "A" in O-A stands for "pre-approved extension of stay for one year on entry" so he could be considered as in the system in such a case.

That's interesting. This has been discussed over the years supporting my interpretation, that the O-A people are not in the system IN Thailand until they get their first extension IN Thailand. (That's how I came to believe that.) Is it possible there is someone who started with an O-A and was still staying on the O-A (pre first extension) when the financial requirements were changed that could tell their experience (grandfathered or not)? If not, I guess you're saying it might be a grey area for now. Edited February 16, 2012 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

Your showing our age. There was no pre-approved O-A visa when the last change of requirements was made (1998) so there is no yardstick available.

[Jingthing]

Your showing our age. There was no pre-approved O-A visa when the last change of requirements was made (1998) so there is no yardstick available.

Yes, I suspected that and thanks for clarifying. That's why I used the language Is it possible there is someone suspecting it wasn't possible both in the sense of actually possible AND if possible, could we find anybody like that. In any case, sorry to bring this up as it's all speculation anyway. For all we know, nobody will be grandfathered in future changes. Past policies don't guarantee future ones.

[MilesCh]

Again thanks everyone for your assistance. FYI, Bernard at the LA Consulate took good care of my non-immigrant O visa for which I overnighted the paper on the evening of the 15th with FedEx and had my passport with multi re-entry visa back in hand on Friday the 17th. Almost as fast as going to the American Consulate and Immigration in Chiang Mai!!