Thai Education Minister Suchart Welcomes 'Donations' To Schools

[scorecard]

Christian school have a force donation system. School like Bangkok Christian, etc. I knew before I have applied for my child before. When they give me the compulsary donation form without even seeing my child face, I spit at it (the form), threw it infront of the headmaster, and walk away, cursing Jesus along with it.

For the children application form to be accepted, the parrents have a sign a piece of paper to say how much they will donate, if their child gets in. Than the child gets a conditional offer subject to the parrents deposite the money. One the cheque is cleared, then the child will be accepted.

So, when Farang and Christian has open corrupt (with eveyone knowledge), is it OK.

When Thai want to do the same, it is considered evil.

Erm no - I doubt anyone would suggest either are OK. As I posted above, I don't see why they can't just be honest and put an entrance fee up for the top schools. As I stated, this opens up sponsorship avenues - with large tech companies here, sponsorships could easily be beneficial for them (and releatively cheap advertising to boot). Good schools need more money to keep and attract good teachers, and cover the cost of better equpment etc, this is true everywhere and either all schools become equal (Orwellian perhaps) or (and more realistically) top schools need a subsidy. Scholoarships for such school pushes poor children to achieve too - a goal to aim for.

Nice theory, doesn't fit very well with keeping the opportunity open to the last minute to privately negotiate some extra cream.

[richard10365]

Hmmm....on second thought, maybe it is a good idea. If it is legal, it would be regarded as revenue. That revenue would be taxed along with all the other sources of revenue. Since it is reported now, the person who normally receive the bribe would not get the money because now the money goes to the school. If the person who paid the bribe gets an educational tax deduction for the bribe, then it would be doubly reported making sure the school didn't divert these funds for someone's pocket.

I see where your coming from. BUT it is still wrong to legitimise this .The good schools should be providing extras that the students and parents want.. At least that way IT is for the benefit of all the students.

But this is Thailand and this is the way they do things.

I don't disagree with you, I think it's wrong too. However, if there is no choice, pick the lessor of two evils.

[TackyToo]

^

Yawn...

Lots of totally meaningless words, another amsterdam graduate.

But what about what I said?

The message vs. messenger thing.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to discuss this issue in your "Red Shirt Elite Club"?

[scorecard]

Christian school have a force donation system. School like Bangkok Christian, etc. I knew before I have applied for my child before. When they give me the compulsary donation form without even seeing my child face, I spit at it (the form), threw it infront of the headmaster, and walk away, cursing Jesus along with it.

For the children application form to be accepted, the parrents have a sign a piece of paper to say how much they will donate, if their child gets in. Than the child gets a conditional offer subject to the parrents deposite the money. One the cheque is cleared, then the child will be accepted.

So, when Farang and Christian has open corrupt (with eveyone knowledge), is it OK.

When Thai want to do the same, it is considered evil.

Sparebox...you really are a bit of a nut job..

The Catholic schools here are run by ........Thai's. I would imagine Bangkok Christian to be the same. Why did you WANT to enroll your kid there?

At least if they give every one a form for a contribution it is NOT the same as this Education minister is talking about... it is a contribution to the school as a whole.

Not the same? Why not the same. The Thai Education want the contribution to go to the school too, not the Minister's pocket.

And if anyone accuse me of lying about Bangkok Christian College force parrents to donation before application form is accepted for consideration, I shall provide proof. I don't even mind going to court to proof that I am not lying.

I've hear many times before of the school mentioned demanding under the table donations, not recorded, and I have one colleagues who has two kids there right now, both in Primary school, and the parents paid big under the table money both times (in fact negotaited as a once only payment package, but double.). (And not the primary point here, but the parents are far from happy with the quality of the education. They paid because they belived it would provide quality education, and they paid because they though their kids would learn good English. In fact both kids cannot, after 3, and 2 years say much more than - I'm fine thank you, and how are you?)

This is of course not the only school which does this.

No matter whether they are government schools, private schools, religious based schools with connections to abroad or whatever, it's corruption.

Edited February 14, 2012 by scorecard

[sparebox2]

It is a bit like legalise sex (like in Europe), gambling (las vegas) or even drug (like in the Netherland).

Keep it illegal will does not mean that the problem will go away. It only mean that a small group of people get super rich.

Legalise it is not good for society, but at least govt have some say, control, and tax revenue.

[z12]

Could be time for Thais to start 'home schooling'. Yes, I know, the poor kids in Thailand get no schooling at all, just pointed to the field.

Edited February 14, 2012 by z12

[xthAi76s]

Waiting to hear the arguments how this is really "a good thing". Who is going to defend this policy? Come on Calgaryll, Lansford, and gang!

Thank you for asking Reasonable man and Soi Sauce^.

I made some inquiries, with the following points being made, in no particular order:

• This is nothing new. It has been going on for many years. To try and stop it would be well-nigh impossible.
  
• Best to make it transparent.
  
• Many schools ask parents for money. In an example personally experienced during my years of teaching English some time ago, was teaching at a local school where enrollment requests exeeded availablity. I recall seeing parents huddled with the Director, and it didn't take a genius to figure out what was happening.
  
• In some cases, schools ask money from parents, in some cases parents urge money onto the school.
  
• Questions need to be asked, where does this money go. To confront this would obviously be of concern to the Opposition, from whence this money flow mainly originates......frankly, that is where the money is.
  
• Increased transparency and scrutiny is urged by the Minister for a practice that cannot be prevented. In other words, "follow the money".
  
• Trying to prevent this practice would piss off a lot of parents, who are focussed on one particular school for their little Johnie or Sally. If it was prevented, they would find another way.
  
• As opposed to engaging in self-righteous indignation about an established practice, sentiments could better be focussed on transparency of this issue.
  
• But if it serves the Opposition to demonize the Education Minister by characterizing this practice a certain way, is par-for-the-course.
  
• In particular, they have the MO of "laundering" their agenda through others. Many times creations of their own, but ostensibly separate. At the very least an entity of other Oppositional elements. I bet none of you have heard of "Building Thailand Club" as referenced in this article. I haven't either.
  
• Have watched this Minister in action. Let me tell you, he relates to the people in a way Abhi. could only dream of doing. An impressive guy.
  

I thought this response was intelligent BUT for the fact that you excused the system. It's a defeatist attitude, and its widespread use amongst the Thais is a central issue preventing them from improving this wretched country.

An optimistic, more productive attitude/argument would suggest, perhaps,

1. prosecuting people who accept bribes to discourage it in the school system, -- result, in theory, would force the money elsewhere ...

2. trying hard to allow students entry on some measurement of merit -- resulting in parents/students who understand that working harder and being better will give them better chances of entry

3. if there are STILL not enough good schools for Sally and/or Johnie (which I think are actually Somchai and Nanapong), they the parents in Thai society will then be forced to take it up with their leaders to provide a better school system with decent schools that their kids can attend

(some countries have plenty of decent or better than decent schools for the population, and you don't get there with such a lazy system as is used here in Thailand)

4. then, there can be real taxes legalized that allow payers into the system to 'demand' a certain product for their money paid into the system -- result, in theory, is that people (tax payers/commoners) become more publicly involved in policy affecting their kids' educations.

and so on and so on. The problem with saying things like "it's a part of the society, so it's better to just make it more transparent" is .... wait for it ... places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible. There do not seem to be enough people willing to take a stand for what many (esp the educated here) know is the right thing to do by the society. Some things should be made more transparent; others should be altered altogether.

Hope what I typed is understandable. I typed it quickly.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ThailandMan

[Ferangled]

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...

[diehard60]

You can do that. You just have to make clear announcements and do so in a transparent manner," he said.

So I guess now it is all right for teachers to accept money for grades? Wow this is getting better all the time. If you have money - you get in. Even if your score are below those who don't have money.

TIT

[volk666]

"Legalize prostitution" comparison is not entirely valid. The equivalent would be "every woman is obliged to have sex with anyone who pays".

Christian and other private schools can establish any policies they want including collecting donations for admissions either openly or secretly. They are the equivalent of prostitutes here and their operations are regulated by the government.

Government provided education is supposed to be open to all and the brightest kids should be given better opportunities. If the logic is "if I give you the money you must provide" then it's the equivalent of forcing women to have sex with anyone who pays.

[Pib]

A bad idea for public schools. This will just increase special privileges given to certain students (i.e., kids of donors) and certain schools...and also give the govt another reason to budget less to schools.

Hopefully parents will also get the feeling that the govt is now expecting parents to pay a bigger share of their kids' overfall education costs....and I thought recently the govt expanded their free education program.

Bad idea for public schools; OK fine for private schools as parents have made the conscious decision to pay for all of their kid's education costs.

[Reasonableman]

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...

Banning such transactions and prosecuting the offenders, that is making a good start!

[Reasonableman]

A bad idea for public schools. This will just increase special privileges given to certain students (i.e., kids of donors) and certain schools...and also give the govt another reason to budget less to schools.

Hopefully parents will also get the feeling that the govt is now expecting parents to pay a bigger share of their kids' overfall education costs....and I thought recently the govt expanded their free education program.

Bad idea for public schools; OK fine for private schools as parents have made the conscious decision to pay for all of their kid's education costs.

Sure, blackmail is fine as long as you can afford it.

[xthAi76s]

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...

I'm well off and having fun. How about you?

Oh, should I have only good opinions of the places I live? Is that your suggestion?

I'm very glad that you are happy here. I have complaints, and I have the internet. It's not so fast, but it's fast enough for me to post my gripes here. When I see something to bash, I just bash it all to h3ll. That's what make ME happy. So, we both seem to be happy.

Anyway, if you could, can you respond to the important, on topic content of my post? I would like to know what you think. I thought it was pretty logical.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ThailandMan

[Ferangled]

Reasonableman: Thanks, hard to keep track given most of the comments on here, I thought is was more about oneupmanship between self appointed Ferang Red/ Yellow shirt sympathisers than putting the education system to rights. Read back a few posts and you should be able to pinpoint the post I was replying to...

Thailandman: Glad to hear you're well off and happy, random comment but TIT. If you want to live in a terrible place, your words not mine, that would be your choice, whatever makes you happy! Of course if you don't like it you could move or do something constructive to change it...

Sorry, important, on topic post, must have missed it... shame. I find only one of every three posts I make actually get posted here... must be the corrupt Thais controlling my free speech I guess.

[Ricardo]

Wow...amazing...where did Thailand find this elite team of misfits to run the country. First the little sister of Thaskin gets elected by promising tablet computers and minimum wage increases, then the massage parlor king wants to stamp out prostitution, and now the education minister wants to legalize bribes. I can only imagine what we will read about tomorrow. Perhaps the election commission will legalize vote buying in Thailand.

To be fair to "the massage parlor king" (or former ditto), he has refused to join the government, since he somehow believes that might hinder his freedom to expose corruption amongst the BiBs & political-elite now in charge.

Surely not ... this government is dedicated to helping the poor, and stamping-out elites, as their actions demonstrate so clearly ... erm ... and convincingly ... wait up, did I get that right ?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Ricardo

[volk666]

This thread is about education, not prostitution

If this thread is about education than people shouldn't compare it to legalizing prostitution either, but since they did the implications of such comparisons have been shown.

Just as prostitution is not the only way to obtain sex, paying school directors shouldn't be the only way to obtain better education.

The problem of tea money won't go way, that's besides the point, the main problem is destroying the concept of meritocracy at the roots, from the very young age.

Whatever people say about Thailand, but there are plenty of example of people with humble beginnings making it to the top through the "elite" circles - Chuan, Surayud, or Chamlong. That would surely be impossible if placement in elite schools were decided only by money.

[metisdead]

Baiting posts have been removed. A post containing a link to another forum has been removed. Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[scorecard]

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...

Transparent! Where does it say that it will be transparent?

[fred110]

Instead of buying all kids those new tablets, give them all those talking dictionaries, then they can 'speak' English. Everyone can pass. Problem solved!

[scorecard]

Reasonableman: Thanks, hard to keep track given most of the comments on here, I thought is was more about oneupmanship between self appointed Ferang Red/ Yellow shirt sympathisers than putting the education system to rights. Read back a few posts and you should be able to pinpoint the post I was replying to...

Thailandman: Glad to hear you're well off and happy, random comment but TIT. If you want to live in a terrible place, your words not mine, that would be your choice, whatever makes you happy! Of course if you don't like it you could move or do something constructive to change it...

Sorry, important, on topic post, must have missed it... shame. I find only one of every three posts I make actually get posted here... must be the corrupt Thais controlling my free speech I guess.

Well the bottom line is that it's quite difficult to separate all of this from red / other politics (Note, I didn't say red / yellow politics because I believe that's a misnoma, I'm sure that thee are many people, Thai and farang (who have no vote) who don't really align to just red or yellow).

It's corruption, nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps you might call it transparent corruption. It's corruption.

[Derifo]

Legalizing bribery. Smart move.

[tragickingdom]

If Suchart believes that the money schools receive for education is too little, he should tell his boss to take the money he is short away from the crooked army. There is no need to please Prem with a tank division in Chiangmai. Not only will Prem not live to see it, it is a scandalous waste of money.

[CalgaryII]

BANGKOK: -- Education Minister Suchart Tadathamrongvej is set to legalise the acceptance of "tea money", which has long been described as bribery and a despicable custom.

Legalise corruption, that's one way of cleaning up the term. People will now be donating to a cause, and there will be no more corruption in Thailand.

LOL Seems like it in a nutshell.

Calgaryll has a point, transparency about something that is impossible to stop may be slightly better (lesser of 2 evils?).

I dont actually understand the whole thing, teh Red Shirts are supporting this guy?... but isn't this the opposite to what the Red Shirts were originally after? Equality. (Did I read this wrong?)

'O yeah....they support him big time.

No one has said it was equal or correct.

Just that it is a fact of life, when parents want to place Johnnie and Sally in a particular school, for reasons of their own.

In all likelyhood, if that is the case with them, you can bet it resonates with others as well, and you have demand exceeding supply.

For example, there is an all-girls Highschool here, that is commonly accepted as being high quality. Everyone wants to send their Sally there.

The Minister recognizes this and is surfacing what has happened for a long time. Ya gotta admire him for drawing attention to it. Only with a spotlight on the situation can anything be done.

For him to come down with a sledgehammer outlawing this practice, would derail him and Ms. Y. in a hurry.

Their approach, shine a light on it, and see if it can be channeled better.

This Minister is a charismatic individual with leadership potential from what I have seen.

Those who denigrate him, and try to diminish him on this thread, don't have clue what they are talking about.

[Reasonableman]

A Minister with leadership _potential_? hahaha, so he is a Minister but he's still using training wheels? More doctrinaire claptrap from Calgaryll. Maybe you should make some more inquiries with your colleagues... LOL

BANGKOK: -- Education Minister Suchart Tadathamrongvej is set to legalise the acceptance of "tea money", which has long been described as bribery and a despicable custom.

Legalise corruption, that's one way of cleaning up the term. People will now be donating to a cause, and there will be no more corruption in Thailand.

LOL Seems like it in a nutshell.

Calgaryll has a point, transparency about something that is impossible to stop may be slightly better (lesser of 2 evils?).

I dont actually understand the whole thing, teh Red Shirts are supporting this guy?... but isn't this the opposite to what the Red Shirts were originally after? Equality. (Did I read this wrong?)

'O yeah....they support him big time.

No one has said it was equal or correct.

Just that it is a fact of life, when parents want to place Johnnie and Sally in a particular school, for reasons of their own.

In all likelyhood, if that is the case with them, you can bet it resonates with others as well, and you have demand exceeding supply.

For example, there is an all-girls Highschool here, that is commonly accepted as being high quality. Everyone wants to send their Sally there.

The Minister recognizes this and is surfacing what has happened for a long time. Ya gotta admire him for drawing attention to it. Only with a spotlight on the situation can anything be done.

For him to come down with a sledgehammer outlawing this practice, would derail him and Ms. Y. in a hurry.

Their approach, shine a light on it, and see if it can be channeled better.

This Minister is a charismatic individual with leadership potential from what I have seen.

Those who denigrate him, and try to diminish him on this thread, don't have clue what they are talking about.

[rubl]

If Suchart believes that the money schools receive for education is too little, he should tell his boss to take the money he is short away from the crooked army. There is no need to please Prem with a tank division in Chiangmai. Not only will Prem not live to see it, it is a scandalous waste of money.

2012-01-04:

"The Education Ministry is also set to get more than it asked for - Bt420.4 billion, up Bt1.8 billion from its proposal for Bt418.6 billion.

Among the other favoured ministries are Defence (Bt168.8 billion, up Bt1.4 billion), Interior (Bt285.2 billion, up Bt1.3 billion), and Finance (Bt191.4 billion, up Bt474 million)."

[Reasonableman]

So the budget the Ministry proposed was too low? What was the extra for? School entrance fees?

If Suchart believes that the money schools receive for education is too little, he should tell his boss to take the money he is short away from the crooked army. There is no need to please Prem with a tank division in Chiangmai. Not only will Prem not live to see it, it is a scandalous waste of money.

2012-01-04:

"The Education Ministry is also set to get more than it asked for - Bt420.4 billion, up Bt1.8 billion from its proposal for Bt418.6 billion.

Among the other favoured ministries are Defence (Bt168.8 billion, up Bt1.4 billion), Interior (Bt285.2 billion, up Bt1.3 billion), and Finance (Bt191.4 billion, up Bt474 million)."

Edited February 14, 2012 by Reasonableman

[rubl]

So the budget the Ministry proposed was too low? What was the extra for? School entrance fees?

If Suchart believes that the money schools receive for education is too little, he should tell his boss to take the money he is short away from the crooked army. There is no need to please Prem with a tank division in Chiangmai. Not only will Prem not live to see it, it is a scandalous waste of money.

2012-01-04:

"The Education Ministry is also set to get more than it asked for - Bt420.4 billion, up Bt1.8 billion from its proposal for Bt418.6 billion.

Among the other favoured ministries are Defence (Bt168.8 billion, up Bt1.4 billion), Interior (Bt285.2 billion, up Bt1.3 billion), and Finance (Bt191.4 billion, up Bt474 million)."

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4953284

You may have missed my post from a few hours ago

"When we had the recent cabinet reshuffle PM Yingluck said a selection criteria this time was 'suitability'. Dr. Suchart has been Dept Finance Minister under the late k. Samak, Finance Minister under k. Somchai. It shows, he probably just wants to augment the budget allocated to his Ministry"

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5054094

Also check the link to the 'Policy of MoE" I provided, interesting reading

Edited February 14, 2012 by rubl

[bigbamboo]

I had no idea tea was so expensive in Thailand. Everyone seems to want money to pay for it.

[edwardandtubs]

It seems like a great idea to me. It takes away the hypocrisy and brings it all out into the open. Bring it out into the open instead of keeping it under the table and it will be no different to any other country that has fee-paying schools.