girlx Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 i live on a small isolated beach on an island. there is one family there who has a lot of power in the village. they have been around for years and own some land, but have nothing else as their business efforts have failed. their new business model seems to be to send out one of their members to woo a farang into coming over here, staying long term, and building a house or business on some part of their land. of course there are no legal papers involved- the land is given, the farang coughs up for the house or business, and there is an honor system that implies that whenever the farang wants to use their house or business, it will be available to them, but when the farang leaves, the family gets the buildings and their associated profits. is it just me or is this a totally sketchy way to do things? i haven't been around here long enough to see if it has backfired yet, but i wouldn't touch a deal like this with a ten foot pole. examples: -one girl friend married into the family and was given a small parcel of land on which she built a half-million baht house. now she is going home to israel for a couple of years to work and save and come back to live long term. she wanted to take her husband home as well but suddenly at the last minute the monks told him not to go and he may be staying here for 3 years. the farang woman thinks no matter what she can come back and use the house to live in in the future, as it's her house- i think when she comes back they will have another farang living in it and being bilked out of more money and she will just have to turn right back around and go home. - another girl friend is about to marry into this family after only 3 months of knowing the guy. he is very two sided- the devout monk at times, a strutting cock at others. she of course only sees the devout monk side and has brought her son over from england and is ready to form this new family. the family have a parcel of land they are giving her husband, but for her and all this money she is suddenly throwing into her new life and marriage, they have decided she will pay the loan for a year for them on a neglected set of bungalows, and run it. my thoughts are they can not pay the loan themselves, and she would be lucky to break even after a year. she thinks she can make it a profitable business. again, nothing legal to protect her. - another guy build another half-million baht house on their land, and some of the family lives in it when he is gone. so far it does seem they let him use the house when he returns, but for how long? what if they decide they can make money off the house? there is nothing to legally say it is his. there are at least 3 other examples but you get the gist. i was approached last year by this family, who wanted me to buy out their stake in a bar. i didn't think it was such a good idea because it was a large amount of money for me to invest at the time and i had no guarantee i could even break even with the bar. but also, at the last minute, i was told by someone else that the real owner of the land was soon coming back to tear down the bar and build something else that i would have no rights to. luckily i am not stupid enough to get involved in a deal like this where i have no protection or legal status. but these people who marry into the family seem to think the family will from then on protect them with this honor system. the concept of an "honor system" seems like an oxymoron in thailand, but that might be me being jaded.... a girl in this situation has come to me for advice, and i told her i have no idea how to work it (i don't have an especially business-oriented mind), but i wonder upon reflection if i should have told her to run like hel_l?! thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 this is going to sound harsh but here goes.... Anyone moving to another country & wanting to invest money should have a lawyer & at least know something about the ownership laws of that country before commintting to it. The same as anyone marrying into a family & investing large sums of money should be aware of the legal side of the country they live in & what their rights are as the spouse of a citizen of that country. A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart. They are the only one who will lose in the long run as they haven't had the sense to protect themselves. As far as I can see, the law is there for anyone to know IF they can be bothered to investigate it properly & providing this family are not suggesting that this is the legal way to do it ( & only a moron wouldn't bother checking) then I can't see how they are scamming anyone, the morality of it isn't something I want to dwell on but the family are doing nothing illegal from what you have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonman Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 There is nothing stopping one owning a house on someone else's land if you go through the correct legal proceedings. However I don't think this is what the family have in mind Ah love blindness, a sure way for a Thai family to see with clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 "A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart" my thoughts exactly! but when i suggest this, they get very offended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 LOL, then let them learn the hard way. Personally I wouldn't get too involved but politely suggest they seek legal advice before committing to anything financially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Girlx, absolutely do not get too involved, just suggest to the girl that she contact a lawyer instead. You do not want to get sucked into whatever problems will arise later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 thanks for the advice, you are right, i have probably said too much already to her (ie. don't be stupid, protect yourself...) and it might backfire on me in future, but now i know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 If someone is stupid enough to get innvolved in this scenario then they deserve to be taken. (no honour among thieves) I'm rather surprised people are that gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 "A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart"my thoughts exactly! but when i suggest this, they get very offended! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait a minute, these are girls right ? under Thai laws spouses share the assets, so she is "protected" and Farang women who are married to Thais (unlike Farang men) have right to land ownership. Complete different situation. Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure they have an instrinsic right to the land if they are married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Not a clue, but to be honest, these people aren't the kinds who really care all that much about the law. I don't know exactly who the family is but I do know the area and even the locals tread carefully on that side of the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insight Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 With all due respect to residents of Ko Phan Ngan (and surrounding areas) on this forum, as nice as the people are that live there, there really is an underlying "mafia" feel about the whole place. Spend a holiday there, sure, but settle down? The feeling of "watching my back" for every single deal I make would take all the fun out of living there for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 With all due respect to residents of Ko Phan Ngan (and surrounding areas) on this forum, as nice as the people are that live there, there really is an underlying "mafia" feel about the whole place.Spend a holiday there, sure, but settle down? The feeling of "watching my back" for every single deal I make would take all the fun out of living there for me. Well, after living here 17 years I'd have to say I disagree. yes, there are certain parts that have that but mostly not. I think what you are finding is what is prevalent in many very small isolated communities: either you are from here or you are not. I am married to someone from here so that makes me ok. Doesn't matter if you are Thai or farang, either you are from here or your'e not. I've talked to people from the UK and other countries who come from really small places and they say it is often the same. It is really a very tightly knit community where half the people are related to the other half--and very hard to break into, esp as a farang with no connections to the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I am not aware of any extra rights to land ownerships that farang women married to thai men have but if you have any docs about it, that would be good? Your right about the law with respect to spouses of thai men though, under thai law the men are the head of the household so must provide for their wives but again, I would never put myself in a situation where I wasn't 100 percent clear of my rights before investing money in thailand for family or not as imagine 20 years down the line being told that you can't actually live in your house or that your land doesn't actually belong to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) there is definitely a mafia feeling here in TNP. if i wore gold chains or drove a pickup they would be much nicer to me, let me put it that way. and they have no regard for any law whatsoever. it's like a game. it's almost too small a village to have educated rich tourists mingling with totally uneducated, desperate people with a fixation on being better (bigger, badder) than everyone and doing anything they can to get to that imaginary point of power in their small heads. the problem is a lot of foreigners stay too long and get caught up in all that drama. and cultures do indeed clash. it is one place where being too honest can get you killed, which is definitely unfamiliar to *me* anyway coming from US where honesty is insisted upon if not exactly adhered to all the time.... so it's easy to be stupid. but there are nice people too, and if you don't let yourself get too connected and try to be a tourist it's still very lovely. it's much more dangerous under the surface. i just have to keep reminding myself of that. if i can deal with it, i will stay longer, if not, i miss out on a challenge. p.s. i never heard of marriage rights for farang girls either...? Edited December 8, 2005 by girlx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 this is going to sound harsh but here goes....Anyone moving to another country & wanting to invest money should have a lawyer & at least know something about the ownership laws of that country before commintting to it. The same as anyone marrying into a family & investing large sums of money should be aware of the legal side of the country they live in & what their rights are as the spouse of a citizen of that country. A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart. They are the only one who will lose in the long run as they haven't had the sense to protect themselves. As far as I can see, the law is there for anyone to know IF they can be bothered to investigate it properly & providing this family are not suggesting that this is the legal way to do it ( & only a moron wouldn't bother checking) then I can't see how they are scamming anyone, the morality of it isn't something I want to dwell on but the family are doing nothing illegal from what you have said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. One can only wonder why punters would jump in to significant investment without professional advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluto_manibo Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I have never heard or seen any legal papers alluding to a Foreign womans' rights to own land whilst acquired during a marriage to her Thai husband, knwn as communal property. I would like to know where the poster got this onformation from, as it seems unfounded and completely false.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I have never heard or seen any legal papers alluding to a Foreign womans' rights to own land whilst acquired during a marriage to her Thai husband, knwn as communal property. I would like to know where the poster got this onformation from, as it seems unfounded and completely false.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am pretty sure I saw it somewhere. I will try to find more info about it and post it here. That would explain the situations with those poor girls. Maybe they know about that particular law and therefore don't feel threaten. They might have did their homework indeed while you guys are lashing out to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I have never heard or seen any legal papers alluding to a Foreign womans' rights to own land whilst acquired during a marriage to her Thai husband, knwn as communal property. I would like to know where the poster got this onformation from, as it seems unfounded and completely false.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm with you Pluto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonman Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 "A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart"my thoughts exactly! but when i suggest this, they get very offended! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait a minute, these are girls right ? under Thai laws spouses share the assets, so she is "protected" and Farang women who are married to Thais (unlike Farang men) have right to land ownership. Complete different situation. Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure they have an instrinsic right to the land if they are married. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm afraid under the Land Act women are "aliens", just like men. Spouses share community property other than land. Although illegal, a lot of thai men do not advise the land office they are married to a foreigner. It is much easier for a thai man to avoid this as he will not have a farang name on his ID. The confusion regarding more rights for foreign women than foreign men stems from the 1965 Nationality Act where women have a fast track to Residency Status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaipwriter Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 The family may be trustworthy and honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 if they were so knowledgeable on the subject butterfly, then they wouldn't be asking girlx for advice now would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I don't know where I heard it first, but I've heard it often and I agree with it: never take more money to Thailand than you can afford to walk away without... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 The confusion regarding more rights for foreign women than foreign men stems from the 1965 Nationality Act where women have a fast track to Residency Status. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ok, so maybe I got confused with that one. But I remembered seeing something also about Land. Still digging. Must be somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted December 11, 2005 Author Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) yet another friend of mine today went to this same family to purchase part of their land.... i asked her if she got the legal papers and she said "yeah, they wrote me a receipt! thailand seems to attract the stupidest people. Edited December 11, 2005 by girlx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehaigh Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Wait a minute, these are girls right ? under Thai laws spouses share the assets, so she is "protected" and Farang women who are married to Thais (unlike Farang men) have right to land ownership. Complete different situation. Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure they have an instrinsic right to the land if they are married. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i'm pretty sure you are wrong. farangs, male or female, have no right to own land, married or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Wait a minute, these are girls right ? under Thai laws spouses share the assets, so she is "protected" and Farang women who are married to Thais (unlike Farang men) have right to land ownership. Complete different situation. Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure they have an instrinsic right to the land if they are married. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i'm pretty sure you are wrong. farangs, male or female, have no right to own land, married or not. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are right Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astral Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I don't know where I heard it first, but I've heard it often and I agree with it:never take more money to Thailand than you can afford to walk away without... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very sound advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbojangles Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 this is going to sound harsh but here goes....Anyone moving to another country & wanting to invest money should have a lawyer & at least know something about the ownership laws of that country before commintting to it. The same as anyone marrying into a family & investing large sums of money should be aware of the legal side of the country they live in & what their rights are as the spouse of a citizen of that country. A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart. They are the only one who will lose in the long run as they haven't had the sense to protect themselves. As far as I can see, the law is there for anyone to know IF they can be bothered to investigate it properly & providing this family are not suggesting that this is the legal way to do it ( & only a moron wouldn't bother checking) then I can't see how they are scamming anyone, the morality of it isn't something I want to dwell on but the family are doing nothing illegal from what you have said. Agreed. One can only wonder why punters would jump in to significant investment without professional advice. Agreed. Why is it that one would never dream of buying a house / land in your native country, without the aid of professional assistance but when they go to LOS, many don't feel they have the need for their services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 or go for the advice received in a bar or online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonman Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 this is going to sound harsh but here goes....Anyone moving to another country & wanting to invest money should have a lawyer & at least know something about the ownership laws of that country before commintting to it. The same as anyone marrying into a family & investing large sums of money should be aware of the legal side of the country they live in & what their rights are as the spouse of a citizen of that country. A fool & his money are easily parted & if these women married to the thai guys are stupid enough to go blindly into a business/investment for the family then they deserve to loose it all when things wrong or the marriage falls apart. They are the only one who will lose in the long run as they haven't had the sense to protect themselves. As far as I can see, the law is there for anyone to know IF they can be bothered to investigate it properly & providing this family are not suggesting that this is the legal way to do it ( & only a moron wouldn't bother checking) then I can't see how they are scamming anyone, the morality of it isn't something I want to dwell on but the family are doing nothing illegal from what you have said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. One can only wonder why punters would jump in to significant investment without professional advice. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Why is it that one would never dream of buying a house / land in your native country, without the aid of professional assistance but when they go to LOS, many don't feel they have the need for their services <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps it's because in one's native country if you are paying for advice you expect it to be correct, and if it's not you can sue. Therefore it is best to use a lawyer, but go armed with as much information and questions you can muster together. If he can answer them , great, if he says "don't worry about it", find another lawyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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