Engagement In Thailand

[richard_smith237]

The Sin-Sod question is highly controversial and is a long standing a highly contentious issue on TV.com - many threads running.

I know first hand information of someone who paid 400,000 baht to a wealthy Bangkok family who's daughter has a Masters from Thammarsat University, has worked for international companies, speaks fluent English and who welcomed senior members of society to their wedding which include somewhere in the region of 1000 guests (to place perspective guests included famous politicians and owners of companies we all have heard of)... the 400,000B sin-sod was returned.

Some pay much more, some pay much less - Based on numerous weddings I've attended I'd suggest less than 100,000B as being reasonable. The best estimation of the correct SinSod would be to find out how much the Thai chappies would offer for her sisters.

Regarding Engagement: Engagement is a Western idea more recently accepted by Thai culture. As I've seen it, the engagement ceremony is actually what we would call the Wedding Ceremony and the Wedding Ceremony is what we would usually a call the Wedding Reception (party).

The SinSod is handed over at the Engagement ceremony, along with a Wedding ring, this can be a private family only occasion if you wish, it's usually the time at which you are 'morally' married (you officially become married when signing at the Amphur - you can do this at any time you wish).

By suggesting you are going to get Engaged for a year before you get married could be misinterpreted by her parents as trying to 'get something for free'.

In short - its very difficult to 'Westernise' the Thai concept of Engagement and Marriage without appearing a little disrespectful.

If your Thai is good enough, it might be possible to talk with your Girlfriends parents and point out that while your intentions are highly honourable you also have cultural standards you hope to follow.

In the West, the least you would offer for an engagement is a diamond ring - Thats a good starting point.

Offering a high SinSod also places you in the box of 'foolish with too much money to throw away' - this in the long term does not breed mutual respect while politely sticking to your beliefs is more likely to be initially tolerated and eventually respected when the get to know more of your character.

[richard_smith237]

So i told her why am i paying 400K and she simply replied by saying because i'm a farang.

No two ways about it. There is no level of mutual respect which can grow from an attitude or a response such as this.

This issue while causing much controversy does filter out the wheat from the chaff and can potentially save many of us from major headaches down the line when applying respect, subjectiveness and intelligence to such situations.

[beano2274]

I did the engagement with proper rings and it was not a wedding ceremony.

The Amphur wedding was about 6 months after the engagement, and the actual Buddhist ceremony was done about 2 years later (due to money situation).

The Engagement is just that.

Amphur is the legal marriage

Buddhist Ceremony is the Wedding party, with the religious aspect in the morning.

[TommoPhysicist]

The idea of paying a load of cash for a party for people I don't know and couldn't talk to is totally abhorrent to me.

I paid 30bht at the Amphur office for a marriage certificate (or was it 50bht?).

If someone else wants to pay for a party, I would be happy to attend, which I did.

Rings, not Thai tradition, don't want em, didn't pay for them.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Thais can spot a fool a mile off.

[richard_smith237]

I think the last 3 posts; Mine, beano2274 and TommyPhysicist, just goes to show that there is no real norm in Thailand.

Everyone has their own interpretation on the cultural rights, wrongs and norms - and thats just the Thai's, foreigners throw additional melee into the mix.

I suspect we all simply adopt to what we are comfortable with and attempt to achieve the best compromise when we face difference.

I still standby by my comments of lacking mutual respect when the Farang word is applied as a reason for paying more.... If I were to find myself in the Ops shoes, that would be sufficient reason for me to walk.

[beano2274]

I think the last 3 posts; Mine, beano2274 and TommyPhysicist, just goes to show that there is no real norm in Thailand.

Everyone has their own interpretation on the cultural rights, wrongs and norms - and thats just the Thai's, foreigners throw additional melee into the mix.

I suspect we all simply adopt to what we are comfortable with and attempt to achieve the best compromise when we face difference.

I still standby by my comments of lacking mutual respect when the Farang word is applied as a reason for paying more.... If I were to find myself in the Ops shoes, that would be sufficient reason for me to walk.

Have to agree, different ideas of marriage and the ceremonies everywhere.

But like you state, the word farang means money to someone. And like you I would be walking all the way to the next bar...

[TommoPhysicist]

I agree with all that RS and Beano said.

Edited April 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[2unique]

So i told her why am i paying 400K and she simply replied by saying because i'm a farang.

No two ways about it. There is no level of mutual respect which can grow from an attitude or a response such as this.

This issue while causing much controversy does filter out the wheat from the chaff and can potentially save many of us from major headaches down the line when applying respect, subjectiveness and intelligence to such situations.

Unless due to lack of communication ability between you she meant because you can just fack off home leaving me barefoot and pregnant.

Seems you share a mutual amount of trust towards one another, what could possibly go wrong!

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[storm2010]

That is a nice story Beano. My GF will also be putting up the 100K sin sod for show. Honestly, the way I look at sin sod - It is a relic of a culture that is not mine. Given to young virgin women. More importantly, in my life how many times will I be asked and to give money for something (medical, housing, etc..). I have the rest of my life that I will me hit up for sin sod. In my case, why would I hand over huge sums of money to her family for the purpose of marrying a 36yo woman who has been living out of the house for 15 years? Honestly, I can tell this straight away - it's seen as a windfall. It really is. Money for nothing.

Aff Takasaorn - maybe

Anyway - back to you Storm. You state some very disturbing things that tell me your relationship is doomed (sorry). Analyze this in your heart:

I have told her i am not marrying her and defintaely will not until i 100% trust her,

So, you are in a relationship with someone you do not trust.

You have intentions of marrying someone yo udo not trust and think is taking advantage of you

as you guys have said, you just never know with these girls

Well, yes - they all can be charming and deceitful if that is the goal. But I am a firm believer that even the right bar girl can make a great wife. It's all about individual character. I have never thought for a second that the woman I am with has ever lied to me, been deceitful, manipulative or conniving. NOTE: I have been her twenty years and still consider myself lucky (!) and that is why I am marrying this one.

I have managed to bring the sin sod down to 200K, which i still dont plan on paying.

You are not living here in Thailand. From my experience, it is very hard for guys abroad to not pay sin sod. You could get it down to an insane 100k (US3K!) but why? She will never accept 50K (AT THE WEDDING <she will agree to it before, so wire now!! ). You will pay friend - or you will not marry her. I guarantee.

(I) havnt found any signs of any secret thai husband etc

You met the woman is a bar (nightclub - whatever). So you are telling us she is a virgin? How quickly did she sleep with you? Was even faster for the Thai guys. You met her in a nightclub in BKK but were looking for a secret husband in the village upcountry?? OK.

She has never had a farang boyfriend and i dont think she understood that farangs actually work hard for the money and money doesnt grow on trees in farangland,

She will never understand this until she is with a foreigner for a long time. In fact, until she goes abroad will it dawn on her how hard people work for money. I had a bar-girl friend returned from a trip to Hollland. She was all - WOW, people are tired, and work all the time...never knew. Don't think she understands this in the least by your short visits - and you trying to drum it into herhead does nothing.

I also met another older girl in her village during songkran who told me she is marrying a old falang english guy who is paying 1 million baht sin sod and she is the only other girl in the village with a farang boyfriend, so that certainly doesnt help with the situation as all the girls in the village think its standard for falangs to pay that much.

Yes, that does not help. Indeed, the whole village thing does not help. I am mystified whether this woman lives in BKK or Nakon Nowhere. It seems like she was down in the bar freelancing honestly, if she could speak English maybe it would have been a farang venue? she lives in Issan. People in the village will say anything to one up each other. Life is slow and people talk TOO much. You do not want to make your life in the village with the Thai skillset you have - which are no skills.

You do not write in confidence or seemingly with love. It appears you do not trust this woman and honestly she has provided good cause. She appears to be "negotiating" windfalls of marriage, not with any balance or your interests at heart - but as win-lose, zero sum. I have never been married but this is not how two people who desire to spend the rest of their long lives together behave.I do not see a great deal of warmth and concern coming from your wife to be honestly. Pretty much - what are you going to give me?

She travels at a whim - what does she do for work?? She appears to potentially be a freelance prostitute honestly.

As I stated prior: She will accept anything as it comes. "Half" the sin sod, an engagement ring, down payment money for the (BIG <mu$t>) wedding. As it rolls in, she will bank it. Wait for the visa to your home - no problem. Wait for her papers to roll in for green card and/or citizen ship. Finished. Now drain the bank account and file for divorce.

Incidentally - if you marry here and not in your home country (US?). You have another set of huge issues and hurdles to getting her back home that you would not have if you were marrying in US.

Finally - if she hits you up for living expenses, she is most likely not only lazy but again most likely a hooker imo. Young able bodied woman can easily find work in Thailand if she wants it.

There are more fish in the sea. MOVE ON.

1. I dont really trust any thai girls to be honest,but i have been hanging and partying with bar girls for the last 2 years so i have only seen the worst, however i still prefer them over farang girls and they are the nicest,sweetest and funnest girls on the planet.

2.Who said she was a virgin? Meeting a girl in bangkoks after party nightclubs , trust me i know she was not a virgin, however, i like a girl i can party with, drink with and have fun with and that is why i stayed with her. Also lets not forget she is 27 years old and was previously enagaged to a thai guy before meand she does not speak english, i speak to her in thai.

3.She is not/was not ever a freelancer, if she ever asked me for money when i first mt her i would never have stayed with her. When she worked in bangkok she always bought food for me, cooked for me and never asked me for a thing, its only when she moved back to isaan all this money talk started happening.

4.Wha kind of thai skillset would you need for a remote village? the people are the nicest and friendliest i have ever met. I actually enjoy it more than bankok. If i was old and wanted to retire it would definately be an option to move to the village.

[TommoPhysicist]

4.Wha kind of thai skillset would you need for a remote village? the people are the nicest and friendliest i have ever met. I actually enjoy it more than bankok. If i was old and wanted to retire it would definately be an option to move to the village.

I don't think you can beat the village, especially if you live in one with good Internet.

But then I was always a farmer, so no different from my place in the UK.

My corn crop was harvested over the weekend, yellow mangoes and lychee's are ripe. Life is good.

(I love the lychee's when they are fresh off the tree, still a gentle pink colour and easy to peel, not so good when brown and the skin has become brittle after a couple of days)

Edited April 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[thaicbr]

My Gf and I have been having frank discussions about sinsod and wedding costs at the moment. I said that I didn't want to pay sinsod that the family kept. But was happy to SHOW it (getting it back) and pay presents (her mum needs a new bike etc) and pay for the wedding.

She said it Thai culture to pay sinsod.

So I explained that in the UK the brides parents paid for the wedding. So if she wanted the Thai tradition of sinsod I wanted the UK tradition. Very fair

OK she says so i start adding up the flights for the family. The cost of hotel reception. The bar costs etc and provided a figure .. it was amazing how quickly my original idea of showing sinsod and getting it back was adopted again

To be fair to her we are both saving and paying for the wedding.

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[healthcaretaker]

OP,

I can bet that she will accept the 200,000 baht deal eventually if you are hard on it but you have been fooled.

If you doubt her, why would you want to pay 200,000 baht ? There are ways to test her or offer less.

I guess it's too late for me to give any advice unless you are prepared to bvreak0ff and offend by turning on your promise with a new excuse.

Will you want it ?

I will save the 200k and try my luck on 100 other Thai girls with that money. At least you enjoyed 100 times even if you don't get the right girl.

[pigeonjake]

• hi there, i personaly would walk away, when they start asking for money like the sum your good lady is asking for, or should i say the family are asking for as thats the useual case, it would never end, when they wanted something they would just come to you,
  

papas tractor broke no good need another one, 120,000

the roof on the house need doing and so on it would go,

stand you ground and like one of the other posters say, in england our custom is for the family of the bride to pay, just say you want to marry her but its just you 2 that it conserns,

im lucky and i know im lucky, my thai family that i married into are very good, well apart from papa being the lazyest man ive ever met, we have a small pig farm that my wife and her mum run , i run it when im there but last year i worked in the uk for 10 weeks and this year im here in scotland and ill be here for 16weeks, but my wife and her mum do very well, we give mum 10% of what we take in any month, and mama is more then happy with this,

so as you can see our family work as a family, no sin sod, i have helped mama i inproved there house for them that cost me about 70,000bht but thats been it, she sees me and my wife happy and in love and to be honest she likes that, we have a baby coming in sept and she cant wait,

sorry for going on, but there is a lot of good familys,ladys out there, but they do take a lot of finding

good luck in your future,

i would walk, to much money being talked about

[MobileContent]

5 km's away from my village an 18 year old Lady boy and his 50 year faring lover married for 1 million Baht Sin Sod and a house that cost at least 2.5 million Baht.

They are now building another house for the parents for another 1 million Baht.

This is just getting out of control how the farangs get milked up, but stupid people need to be punished.

[pigeonjake]

and thats for a lady boy,,, wow, paying that much for no p,,y lol

[brewsterbudgen]

The OP hasn't said if he loves her or not. It would seem not!

[storm2010]

Just an update. Still with her and still not married. I have moved to Asia and she has been spending some time with me. All seems well (no skeletons in the closet) so considering the marriage again, however she has changed, as now she has more of an understanding of my life and life of westerners In general.

Some things I have learnt in the past year since I posted last is that the main source of the high sin sod and pressure to marry is coming from the mother.

my GF and the mother are constantly fighting due to the fact that she is still not married. Mum constantly losing money due to "casino".

Always asking to borrow money to pay her gambling depts. Dad has never asked me for anything and is generally a good man.

Her mother states it is not good to be with a man this long and not marry (as I have been sleeping in their house with her) and apparently village looks down on her. Mother = problems

[MobileContent]

Just an update. Still with her and still not married. I have moved to Asia and she has been spending some time with me. All seems well (no skeletons in the closet) so considering the marriage again, however she has changed, as now she has more of an understanding of my life and life of westerners In general.

Some things I have learnt in the past year since I posted last is that the main source of the high sin sod and pressure to marry is coming from the mother.

my GF and the mother are constantly fighting due to the fact that she is still not married. Mum constantly losing money due to "casino".

Always asking to borrow money to pay her gambling depts. Dad has never asked me for anything and is generally a good man.

Her mother states it is not good to be with a man this long and not marry (as I have been sleeping in their house with her) and apparently village looks down on her. Mother = problems

Gambling is a big issue. Ask you wife to make her minds up between you and her. Don't stay in the village if you not want to marry her. A lot of gossip and many may be made up by your MIL. Good Luck.