New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[bikerider21]

Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason

It seems this guy isn't aware that we have to send passports to Hong Kong. A bit like the dumb shop assistant in a hardware store where you ask if they sell screws and he just looks around with a bewildered look.

Certainly, people who don't know their job shouldn't be allowed to send false information to the media. It only causes confusion.

Then, we pay all that money for WHAT? Better I keep the words to myself.

[a99az]

so what happens if my wife dies in a car accident on these shitty roads? i lose my kid too?

Good point! What would happen? Guess we must take out a very big insurance for the wife to cover the legal battle with Thai immigration.

[robuzo]

Petitioning the courts for recognition of paternity is not difficult provided the mother consents. If the option is consent or lose child support any woman knowing which side her bread is buttered on, so to speak, would do so.

Edited February 21, 2012 by robuzo

[Thaddeus]

Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason

It seems this guy isn't aware that we have to send passports to Hong Kong. A bit like the dumb shop assistant in a hardware store where you ask if they sell screws and he just looks around with a bewildered look.

Certainly, people who don't know their job shouldn't be allowed to send false information to the media. It only causes confusion.

Then, we pay all that money for WHAT? Better I keep the words to myself.

You don't send your Passport to Hong Kong, just the application form.

[David006]

Won't this rule make the entire concept of 'getting a visa on the basis of having a Thai child' completely redundant?

If you have to be married to get one, then you'd just as easily get a visa on that basis (being married) alone. Or have I missed something?

That is my understanding as well.

Yes got a call from a French friend, said that he was refused Non Imm "O" in Singapore for his Thai son ( not married officially to mom)

Gave him 30 days!?

Strange happenings...Suspect there may have been a little language and bombast problem too..he's from Paris though ...enough said ..lol

[motorcrazy]

Sorry i not understand this,wy only in the uk you ghet that non O Visa.

And what its about laos there we go out from country to.

Ans about suporting your wife ore child,when i here that bulschit again!!!

We suporting here i think the most of the farang when they come fisit the child ore the wife more that 120000 for 2 months.

err......what?

Can you read??

[avalonmick]

I bet that this still doesn't stop any foreign father for going and get the court recognized letter stating that the foreigner is indeed the lawful father of the child. It has always been the case that fathers of children are not considered the legal parent just because their name is on the birth cert as there are no checks and the mother could have listed any name when registered. The law requires the parents be married or the father must petition the court for legal paperwork showing he is the father. Usually this will require a simple DNA test. The conditions are a bit easier if the child is over age 7. Of course this isn't the same for women and it's hardly a sexist thing but rather simple biology.

What an absolutely stupid and socially irresponsible dictate. How hard are they going to make it before fathers just walk/fly away leaving Thailand with even greater social problems than it has now?

My wife had a son by a Thai guy when she was in her teens but the father's name on the birth certificate is of a farang who was not even in the country when the birth was registered. She says the hospital asked for a name and wrote it in for her, and the hospital refused to put the Thai guy's name in there.

The kid is now 8 and there's immense complications when he got a passport, and again when he needed to get it renewed.

This is simply mindless anti-farang bureaucracy at work.

Let's all leave the country, never look back, and see what happens.

[vahack]

This is NOT a crackdown to keep legit fathers from getting visas to stay in thailand to support their children but rather to stop non-legit fathers that are using the name on the birth cert (not recognized in thai court) as the evidence that they are the true father. As it's been stated many times before, ANYONE can have their name submitted to be the "father" on the birth cert when it is first registered and no proof is required by the city office to put said name on the birth cert. That is always been why the Thai courts don't recognize the birth cert on it's own but will accept it if you are married or do marry the Mother of the child.

ya thats good man. thanks for your efforts in this thread. a lot of clarifying posts. it seems like this is just another drama starter by ThaiVisa due to a misleading title..

[chooka]

This has the potential to break up a lot of father/children relationships in Thailand, well thought out policy. Can I still get a non imm Visa as a terrorist or is there no change for that?

[Mario2008]

The rules to get a visa seem to have changed, at least in the UK. But that is in line with Thai law, as you must legitimize the child to become the legal father. In some ways it is a good thing that people are now forced to become the legal father.

Immigration has always demanded that one is the legal father.

For more informaiton about how to become the legal father of a child born in Thailand look here:

http://www.thaivisa....ts-as-a-father/

[softgeorge]

Just spoke to my lawyer about this as I was flying to K.L tomorrow for a visa. She had not heard about this change and she is going to make some inquiries with immigration and get back to me today.

[IMA_FARANG]

Reading through some of the replies it seems to me like many people are over reacting.

If, just for example, your Thai wife dies....even under Thai law that death does not "end" your legal marriage at the time your child was born.

All it means legally is that you WERE marrried legally at the time of the child's birth...

that your marriage ended legally sometime later with the death of your wife...

and therefore due to your legal marriage at the time of the child's birth to the Thai mother you can get a dependents extension to your visa as the survivor of that legal marriage...

and, I'm willing to bet, that if you applied for a visa to visit your child in Thailand later with legal proof of that marriage and it's ending by the death of your Thai wife...Hull would grant you that visa.

All they are really saying, although in a poorly phrased way, is that if you claim to want a visa to come to Thailand to support your child by marriage to a Thai, you're going to need legal proof of that marriage,

Convince them of that fact, and they can and will give you that visa.

If you can't convince them of that fact...you're not going to get the visa.

[Roger2]

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

Poorly worded. I suspect they are talking about not sending a passport out to get a Thai Visa.

If they actually meant what they wrote, they are over stepping their job description.

There are other reasons that someone might send a passport out of the country.

Nice of them to pass on the info, though.

Yes like renewing the passport (gets sent to Hong Kong - comes back from UK). Whatabout mothers then? Or is this another sexist Thai immigration law? What about divorced men? Married at time of birth? Since birth? or have to be curently married?

To renew your UK passport you have only to send a copy of it to Hong Kong. The rules on renewing passports specifically says that if you are in Thailand then you only have to send a copy.

[puchooay]

I bet that this still doesn't stop any foreign father for going and get the court recognized letter stating that the foreigner is indeed the lawful father of the child. It has always been the case that fathers of children are not considered the legal parent just because their name is on the birth cert as there are no checks and the mother could have listed any name when registered. The law requires the parents be married or the father must petition the court for legal paperwork showing he is the father. Usually this will require a simple DNA test. The conditions are a bit easier if the child is over age 7. Of course this isn't the same for women and it's hardly a sexist thing but rather simple biology.

What an absolutely stupid and socially irresponsible dictate. How hard are they going to make it before fathers just walk/fly away leaving Thailand with even greater social problems than it has now?

My wife had a son by a Thai guy when she was in her teens but the father's name on the birth certificate is of a farang who was not even in the country when the birth was registered. She says the hospital asked for a name and wrote it in for her, and the hospital refused to put the Thai guy's name in there.

The kid is now 8 and there's immense complications when he got a passport, and again when he needed to get it renewed.

This is simply mindless anti-farang bureaucracy at work.

Let's all leave the country, never look back, and see what happens.

So lets say for example that the name of the father on the birth certificate was legally binding even if you are not married to the mother.

Lets say that the Thai authorities then go after a "father" for support of that child.

There have been many post on TV over the years talking about devious Thai women only being interested in money.

Maybe a new thing here. Thai women put a different name on the birth certificate. It is then up to the father to prove his innocence.

I think the laws are probably pro father as they are.

As for being anti farang. As far as I know it is the same for Thai fathers too.

[Mario2008]

Just spoke to my lawyer about this as I was flying to K.L tomorrow for a visa. She had not heard about this change and she is going to make some inquiries with immigration and get back to me today.

Immigration (ministry of inetrior) has nothing to do with this. This are rules about a visa, from the Thai Foreign Ministry.

[SomTumTiger]

i am glad this is the last year we are spending here. My children wont grow up being racist [snip] pushing away paying guests

Judging by your avatar, that would be the least of their worries. And your comment speaks more of your parenting skills, then it does of the place where you are raising your child. imo

[Mario2008]

I bet that this still doesn't stop any foreign father for going and get the court recognized letter stating that the foreigner is indeed the lawful father of the child. It has always been the case that fathers of children are not considered the legal parent just because their name is on the birth cert as there are no checks and the mother could have listed any name when registered. The law requires the parents be married or the father must petition the court for legal paperwork showing he is the father. Usually this will require a simple DNA test. The conditions are a bit easier if the child is over age 7. Of course this isn't the same for women and it's hardly a sexist thing but rather simple biology.

What an absolutely stupid and socially irresponsible dictate. How hard are they going to make it before fathers just walk/fly away leaving Thailand with even greater social problems than it has now?

My wife had a son by a Thai guy when she was in her teens but the father's name on the birth certificate is of a farang who was not even in the country when the birth was registered. She says the hospital asked for a name and wrote it in for her, and the hospital refused to put the Thai guy's name in there.

The kid is now 8 and there's immense complications when he got a passport, and again when he needed to get it renewed.

This is simply mindless anti-farang bureaucracy at work.

Let's all leave the country, never look back, and see what happens.

So lets say for example that the name of the father on the birth certificate was legally binding even if you are not married to the mother.

Lets say that the Thai authorities then go after a "father" for support of that child.

There have been many post on TV over the years talking about devious Thai women only being interested in money.

Maybe a new thing here. Thai women put a different name on the birth certificate. It is then up to the father to prove his innocence.

I think the laws are probably pro father as they are.

As for being anti farang. As far as I know it is the same for Thai fathers too.

You do not become the legal father by being named on the birth certificate. That is only a claim that you are the father, which must be confirmed in order to become the legal fahter.

[rmacdon61]

Altho I may have missed it:

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

I can only assume that to renew a passport will require one to leave and return with a new one??

[softgeorge]

Just spoke to my lawyer about this as I was flying to K.L tomorrow for a visa. She had not heard about this change and she is going to make some inquiries with immigration and get back to me today.

Immigration (ministry of inetrior) has nothing to do with this. This are rules about a visa, from the Thai Foreign Ministry.

True, she is going to make inquiries and get back to me. I will post when she does.

[oops]

The only thing it left out was.....DEAD BEAT FATHERS of these poor children that are left behind from the pricks who think that knocking a woman up is OK and then leaving, going back to their country and not contributing to these poor children's welfare. Doesn't matter what the reason for the break up the child still needs to be taken care of.. I see more and more young women with farrang babies and no father.

The child only speaks Thai. The other day I say this little girl who looked farrang not Thai with Mom and Dad both Thai. Maybe she was a bar girl who knows but, it's sad to see.

[LivinLOS]

This is NOT a crackdown to keep legit fathers from getting visas to stay in thailand to support their children but rather to stop non-legit fathers that are using the name on the birth cert (not recognized in thai court) as the evidence that they are the true father. As it's been stated many times before, ANYONE can have their name submitted to be the "father" on the birth cert when it is first registered and no proof is required by the city office to put said name on the birth cert. That is always been why the Thai courts don't recognize the birth cert on it's own but will accept it if you are married or do marry the Mother of the child.

ya thats good man. thanks for your efforts in this thread. a lot of clarifying posts. it seems like this is just another drama starter by ThaiVisa due to a misleading title..

Where does it say that legitimized by court fathers WILL be accepted ??

It doesnt, the posters guessing.

[LivinLOS]

Reading through some of the replies it seems to me like many people are over reacting.

If, just for example, your Thai wife dies....even under Thai law that death does not "end" your legal marriage at the time your child was born.

All it means legally is that you WERE marrried legally at the time of the child's birth...

that your marriage ended legally sometime later with the death of your wife...

and therefore due to your legal marriage at the time of the child's birth to the Thai mother you can get a dependents extension to your visa as the survivor of that legal marriage...

and, I'm willing to bet, that if you applied for a visa to visit your child in Thailand later with legal proof of that marriage and it's ending by the death of your Thai wife...Hull would grant you that visa.

All they are really saying, although in a poorly phrased way, is that if you claim to want a visa to come to Thailand to support your child by marriage to a Thai, you're going to need legal proof of that marriage,

Convince them of that fact, and they can and will give you that visa.

If you can't convince them of that fact...you're not going to get the visa.

But many dont legally marry..

Yet still support the child.

[Thaddeus]

Altho I may have missed it:

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

I can only assume that to renew a passport will require one to leave and return with a new one??

No.

You complete the application form and send it to Hong Kong with copies of your passport pages. When you get your new passport, you visit Thai Immigration who will move whatever visa/extension you are on from old to new.

Then you cut the corner off your old one.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is really going to screw up many genuine situations, where the farther can and does look after the child due to the misfit mother doesn't want to or gone off with someone else.

Is this also saying that we don't expect you to support the child as you are not welcome ?

I can see many fathers taking their kids and living abroad.

I'm sure the powers that be, as well as everyone genuinly concerned with the child's welfare, would be very happy with that result.

Especially for those without abundant financial resources, which would allow you to consider this a complete non-issue.

The other slightly less ideal alternative from the child's POV, but much more ideal for the Thai family, is for the father to stay back home where he belongs and just send over the money for the Thai relatives to raise the child.

You owe the child support, and perhaps you think some Thai people owe you some gratitude for fullfilling that obligation, but don't expect the government and its owners to show any respect or do you any favors, you created the problem and it's up to you to jump through their hoops; IOW you don't have rights, only obligations.

Won't this rule make the entire concept of 'getting a visa on the basis of having a Thai child' completely redundant?

If you have to be married to get one, then you'd just as easily get a visa on that basis (being married) alone. Or have I missed something?

I would expect those fathers granted sole custody of Thai citizens should have more rights.

[Jayman]

This is NOT a crackdown to keep legit fathers from getting visas to stay in thailand to support their children but rather to stop non-legit fathers that are using the name on the birth cert (not recognized in thai court) as the evidence that they are the true father. As it's been stated many times before, ANYONE can have their name submitted to be the "father" on the birth cert when it is first registered and no proof is required by the city office to put said name on the birth cert. That is always been why the Thai courts don't recognize the birth cert on it's own but will accept it if you are married or do marry the Mother of the child.

ya thats good man. thanks for your efforts in this thread. a lot of clarifying posts. it seems like this is just another drama starter by ThaiVisa due to a misleading title..

Where does it say that legitimized by court fathers WILL be accepted ??

It doesnt, the posters guessing.

I'm not guessing that is how it's always been. I think you guys are jumping to false conclusions with this statement that has been released from a single consul. Show me where in any of the immigration law it's says that a father can no longer obtain a visa on the basis to support said child. What's happening here is that the consuls are being instructed (maybe) to verify that the father is legally the child's father and that means showing forth more proof than just the birth cert. I think you guys are reading way too much into this with the normal Thai bashing that goes along with any story that breaks on TV.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Jayman

[LivinLOS]

Altho I may have missed it:

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

I can only assume that to renew a passport will require one to leave and return with a new one??

No.

You complete the application form and send it to Hong Kong with copies of your passport pages. When you get your new passport, you visit Thai Immigration who will move whatever visa/extension you are on from old to new.

Then you cut the corner off your old one.

But theres plenty of reasons why you MUST send your passport out of the country.

Primary one being when you need to apply for a visa from a country who has no consulate in Thailand, then you must send them your passport, from within Thailand.

Also in some industries the passport is required for the processing of time consuming work permit regulations. Many in the oil industry have 2 passports for this purpose while one is routinely sent outside of Thailand.

The original letter writer clearly is poorly informed and the statement is simply not correct.

[LivinLOS]

This is NOT a crackdown to keep legit fathers from getting visas to stay in thailand to support their children but rather to stop non-legit fathers that are using the name on the birth cert (not recognized in thai court) as the evidence that they are the true father. As it's been stated many times before, ANYONE can have their name submitted to be the "father" on the birth cert when it is first registered and no proof is required by the city office to put said name on the birth cert. That is always been why the Thai courts don't recognize the birth cert on it's own but will accept it if you are married or do marry the Mother of the child.

ya thats good man. thanks for your efforts in this thread. a lot of clarifying posts. it seems like this is just another drama starter by ThaiVisa due to a misleading title..

Where does it say that legitimized by court fathers WILL be accepted ??

It doesnt, the posters guessing.

I'm not guessing that is how it's always been. I think you guys are jumping to false conclusions with this statement that has been released from a single consul.

Thats not how its always been for the issue of visa.. Its how its always been at incountry immigration..

But thats 2 different departments.

Based on this new information, its a guess to assume they will accept a court approved father for a new visa. They make no comment that this will be acceptable only that "it is no longer possible to obtain a non immigrant visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or from any of the Royal Thai Consulates in the UK on the basis that you are the father of a child living in Thailand".

Anything else, that it IS possible if your a court approved father" is guesswork.

[Jayman]

Thats not how its always been for the issue of visa.. Its how its always been at incountry immigration..

But thats 2 different departments.

Based on this new information, its a guess to assume they will accept a court approved father for a new visa. They make no comment that this will be acceptable only that "it is no longer possible to obtain a non immigrant visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or from any of the Royal Thai Consulates in the UK on the basis that you are the father of a child living in Thailand".

Anything else, that it IS possible if your a court approved father" is guesswork.

So you are also convinced this applies only to UK consuls?

[innerspace]

This is a very strange statement coming from Hull.

They always have, and I believe still are, very generous with their non-o visas, requiring mainly a cheque and sometimes the name of a supposed thai friend.

So they will happily give you a non-o for going to see a thai friend but not if it is your child without marriage??

[BigJohnnyBKK]

So lets say for example that the name of the father on the birth certificate was legally binding even if you are not married to the mother.

Lets say that the Thai authorities then go after a "father" for support of that child.

I've never heard of such a thing, AFAIK there isn't any legal obligation to support a child here just because you donated your sperm, and most Thais act as if there isn't a moral one either.

The woman would need to hire a lawyer and prove paternity to win a civil case, but I doubt it would be enforceable, AFAICT the "authorities" (whoever you're talking about) don't give a crap.

> I suspect they are talking about not sending a passport out to get a Thai Visa. If they actually meant what they wrote, they are over stepping their job description.

No, it is illegal for a foreigner to not have their original passport available for inspection at all times. In theory you're supposed to have it within your reach anywhere anytime. In practice a copy will usually suffice, but technically - or in reality if you're ever in a serious situatation, I reckon only an official document from the issuing government would suffice.