New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[wolf5370]

Won't this rule make the entire concept of 'getting a visa on the basis of having a Thai child' completely redundant?

If you have to be married to get one, then you'd just as easily get a visa on that basis (being married) alone. Or have I missed something?

That is my understanding as well.

Yes, you have missed something.

To get a marriage visa you must show 400k in the bank.

No you don't - to get an extension in the country you need 400k (Thai account) or 40k/mo income. To get a Visa legally there is no money requirement other than the normal 20k (40 for a foreign couple) when entering - the requirement by some consulates/embassies is THIER rules not the law - many ask for nothing, or an attestation that you can afford to support yourslef, and others ask for proof of varying amounts upto 400k.

Visa and extension are different things and have different requirements.

[oldsailor35]

Ok, I have a child in Thailand and I am not married.

I can't get a visa, so I do not go to Thailand, so I stop taking care of this child,

so problem solved.

Yeh well! you are not the only bastard in the pig pen !

[mussen]

Ok, I have a child in Thailand and I am not married.

I can't get a visa, so I do not go to Thailand, so I stop taking care of this child,

so problem solved.

Yeh well! you are not the only bastard in the pig pen !

I am starting to get an idea why the authorities don't want certain types here.

[salavan]

i have a 1 year extension to a non imigrant o visa based on supporting a thai child , i am also the leagal father by court order in thailand, does this apply to me, do i have to now marry the mother, if so it makes this type of extension non existant because you might just as well get a marriage visa

[ReeceArnold]

Please tell the Thai embasy to reconsider . . . Any person who might otherwise not be considered as an acceptable aplicant for a Thai visa, would certainly likely be aware that you can simply just arrive on a tourist visa and pay the immigration officers a quiet fee(not expensive) and easily obtain a 15month visa, only signing a single document and providing little other documents. Furthermore, if you are in Thailand and can prove legal, single responsibility for the wellbeing of your child (the once mother is incapible or unwilling to provide care) you can be eligible for a caregiver visa, which allows you to stay in Thailand (and work, if inline with existing regulations) until the child is eighteen years of age (atleast this was the case 2 years ago).

[JohnAllan]

This might well be another case of a consulate - or consulates - applying their own rules. Or their own interpretation of them.

Cardiff had not, in response to a direct question, been informed of any change as of today.

And when extending a visa at Chaeng Wattana last year, they wanted to see my Thai 'wife', who was away; but no certificate, which we don't have. They did, though, extend it, asking me to bring her the next time I wanted to extend.

[Jayman]

i sent hull an e-mail this morning and this was there reply ::

As far as we are aware you can apply for the non immigrant single or multiple entry O visa if you have a child in Thailand and are either married to a Thai national or have sole custody of the child. You would need to go to court and have legal papers drawn stating you have custody of the child.

Regards

Once again a lot of mas hysteria over not soo much. The laws are the same they are just now enforcing them more at Hull consul. I'm certain that still many more consuls are still accepting just Thai birt cert. You need to understand that Thai consuls (not like embassies) are privately owned. They are given directives to follow but all the funds they take in are theirs to keep. They don't pay Thailand for the visa's they issue. They pocket the money. So some play a little loser by the rules and yet others are more strict. The Embassy's themselves seem to be the most uptight as they don't personally benefit from the income like the consuls do. There is obviously some review done from the Embassy level on the consuls and new mandates are sent down accordingly. From what I'm being told, no visa/immigration laws have actually changed here.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Jayman

[Jayman]

I think this just makes the requirements to prove you are the father more in line with Thai law where as before they would just accept the childs birth cert. I could be wrong on this but this is how I'm reading it.

I have the support of thai child visa and have had such for about 7 years now.

I am not married and had to get the court doc for proof...no dna test....they never just accepted birth cert alone before when I first applied for it.

I am referring to the OP which looks to be a policy change from one consul in the UK (but perhaps all in UK)

[billthaibill]

Why only the Hulls and not the Camarooneans as well?

[PoodMaiDai]

Sorry, I read the headline:

New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

Crackdown on Non-Immigrant "O" visas for supporting Thai child.

We wouldn't want Thailand to become the HUB of fatherless mixed children.

[ALFREDO]

So, the Thai Authorities want me to use a Tourist Visa, also, I am not a Tourist and after I applied and used to many Tourist Visas, they will deny me a Tourist Visa and than I have to travel a lot and buy me a extension of stay inside the country mixed with travelling abroad to fit the crazy requirements.

Confusing politic which costs me money, I better would give to my children, no?

[TimTang]

My point is that despite some of the hysterical postings on here, this rule change will not affect many people. But thanks for your input

You mean "it doesn't affect me, so why should I care?" Well...the reason you should care is that they are systematically changing the immigration rules every year to effectively expel a portion of the expats living here. While this change doesn't affect you the next one might.

Edited February 21, 2012 by TimTang

[TimTang]

Ok, I have a child in Thailand and I am not married.

I can't get a visa, so I do not go to Thailand, so I stop taking care of this child,

so problem solved.

Yeh well! you are not the only bastard in the pig pen !

I think he was just being sarcastic. He's just emphasizing that those responsible for creating these rules fail to consider the welfare of the child.

[peergin]

The next requirement will be that all unmarried males will have to get a vasectomy, otherwise a visa will be refused.

[softgeorge]

well off to K.L this morning to try for this visa, will let you know the outcome tomorrow.

[Jayman]

well off to K.L this morning to try for this visa, will let you know the outcome tomorrow.

fingers crossed for you mate. My gut tells me all will go well.

[KunMatt]

My point is that despite some of the hysterical postings on here, this rule change will not affect many people. But thanks for your input

You mean "it doesn't affect me, so why should I care?" Well...the reason you should care is that they are systematically changing the immigration rules every year to effectively expel a portion of the expats living here. While this change doesn't affect you the next one might.

+1. Everytime I think I am safe with my visa situation they change the rules on me.

This new change directly affects me; I have a baby with my Thai gf, I work outside of Thailand for a month and then take leave in Thailand for at least a couple of months each time.

Until last year I was getting Non Imm O visa on the basis of visiting my gf, I was just about to apply on the basis of having a child in Thailand but thats no longer valid - so here I am on a 15 day entry stamp after a border run last weekend pondering what to do to be able to stay here with my family.

I live in Ubon so the only thing I can do is go to Vientiane and get a tourist visa every time even though I am not a tourist and that visa is wrong and not suitable for my situation. I will call immigration here to see if they can give me an extension of stay based on visiting my child. Or the only other option right now is that we have to get married just so I can get a visa here. When I told my gf this she laughed and said that usually its Thai ladies marrying expats for visas and passports, not the other way round but even if we did decide to have a sham marriage it would take ages to get the right paperwork from the UK embassy in Bangkok to say Ive never been married before.

Trying to do things the right way here is ridiculous, it would be so mich easier just to overstay and pay a fine each time, thats how things are becoming (for the record in 7 years of coming to Thailand I have never even overstayed 1 day as Ive always jumped through hoops to do things according to the rules of the system).

Edited February 22, 2012 by KunMatt

[Jayman]

This new change directly affects me; I have a baby with my Thai gf, I work outside of Thailand for a month and then take leave in Thailand for at least a couple of months each time.

Until last year I was getting Non Imm O visa on the basis of visiting my gf, I was just about to apply on the basis of having a child in Thailand but thats no longer valid - so here I am on a 15 day entry stamp after a border run last weekend pondering what to do to be able to stay here with my family.

Are you saying that you were refused a Non Imm O visa based on these new changes? What embassy/consul refused you? How long ago did this occur? I'm sure many here would be interested in more specifics about your refusal.

[KunMatt]

Are you saying that you were refused a Non Imm O visa based on these new changes? What embassy/consul refused you? How long ago did this occur? I'm sure many here would be interested in more specifics about your refusal.

Where did I say I was refused? I know the reason you are putting words in my mouth and the comeback you have loaded just waiting to reply with but according to the new rules I am no longer eligible for a Non Imm O. I called the Hull consulate Tuesday morning and this was confirmed. Given my situation there is now no visa that suits me.

But what you are hinting at is that I should take a several day trip to Vientiane or KL in the hope that on the day I get lucky and they do not follow the new rules and issue me a Non Imm O??

[Jayman]

Until last year I was getting Non Imm O visa on the basis of visiting my gf, I was just about to apply on the basis of having a child in Thailand but thats no longer valid - so here I am on a 15 day entry stamp after a border run last weekend pondering what to do to be able to stay here with my family.

Are you saying that you were refused a Non Imm O visa based on these new changes? What embassy/consul refused you? How long ago did this occur? I'm sure many here would be interested in more specifics about your refusal.

Where did I say I was refused? I know the reason you are putting words in my mouth and the comeback you have loaded just waiting to reply with but according to the new rules I am no longer eligible for a Non Imm O. I called the Hull consulate Tuesday morning and this was confirmed. Given my situation there is now no visa that suits me.

But what you are hinting at is that I should take a several day trip to Vientiane or KL in the hope that on the day I get lucky and they do not follow the new rules and issue me a Non Imm O??

I'm certainly not trying to put words in your mouth nor am I your enemy. I think there is lots of fear mongering and panic going on here based on speculation. I have talked to the head of the visa issuance dept at the Thai Embassy in NYC and was assured that if you can prove you are the father of a thai child you will still be given a non-imm O visa. When I asked her if a birth cert was still good enough proof she said yes.

You are the one that says you are here on a 15-day stamp and that you normally come here on a non-imm o visa. You said all that not me. I'm just wondering who rejected you for your non-imm o visa so that you are now here on a 15-day stamp?

The simplest thing to do when it comes to getting any visa issued for Thailand is to email ALL of the consuls that you can go to and ask them the requirements for your particular situation. Then you pick the one that is most convenient for you and go there with the email in hand with all the requirements they listed and get your visa.

For those that are here already on a non-imm o visa (like me) then there is no need to leave at all to get a new one. Just get a 1 year extension based on your being a father and if you do need to leave get a re-entry permit for 1000thb a go or I think the multi version is more like a few thousand. Then you can come and go when you please and not have to do ANY border runs and can continue to have a 1 year stay that can easily be extended by 1 year for 1900thb at immigration.

[TaoNow]

Post # 46 by jsflynn603 includes the following:

"Further Paiboon states that a will becomes extremely important. 'Without a will, if your wife dies before you, her relatives may be able to take what they think belongs to her, including your house.'"

My Thai wife had no will and died last year. Our adult children live in the US. I went to the Taling Chan court and presented (1) my passport; (2) marriage certificate; (3) death certificate; (4) household registration booklet; and (5) a waiver signed by my children authorizing me to be executor of the estate. After a few months, while my petition was advertised in the newspaper, I appeared before the judge who asked a few questions and then gave me authorization to manage my wife's property. My name was added to the land deeds which I can now sell if I choose to. However the house can only be in the name of a Thai national. My wife's bank accounts, car registration, etc. were easily transferred to my name once I presented the court order.

[Jayman]

Post # 46 by jsflynn603 includes the following:

"Further Paiboon states that a will becomes extremely important. 'Without a will, if your wife dies before you, her relatives may be able to take what they think belongs to her, including your house.'"

My Thai wife had no will and died last year. Our adult children live in the US. I went to the Taling Chan court and presented (1) my passport; (2) marriage certificate; (3) death certificate; (4) household registration booklet; and (5) a waiver signed by my children authorizing me to be executor of the estate. After a few months, while my petition was advertised in the newspaper, I appeared before the judge who asked a few questions and then gave me authorization to manage my wife's property. My name was added to the land deeds which I can now sell if I choose to. However the house can only be in the name of a Thai national. My wife's bank accounts, car registration, etc. were easily transferred to my name once I presented the court order.

So sorry for your loss. Thank you for coming here to put to rest some of the fears that other TV members have about losing their assets in the event their spouse passes.

[johndejong]

i have to go for a non o tomorrow and i am not married bt have a babie... does someone know if the new rule already there or next month or so???

[StateSix]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

I know someone who is in his 30's, has a child with his Thai girlfriend and supports his gf, child, and gf's parents via rental income from overseas. He is left with 2 options - boarder runs every 2 weeks until that option is eliminated, or marry girlfriend. Forced marriages are successful even less often than those not forced.

What is a concern for many I'm certain this does effect is when the Thai mother of the child and foreign father split up. If father wants to continue to be involved in child's life, he will have to remove the child from Thailand, and therefore child will be raised without mother, or father leaves without child and child is raised without father. Either way it is disastrous for the child. Once again, the Thai government not thinking, just doing.

Re your friend, what difference does going signing a piece of paper at the local Amphur really make if it enables him to stay with his family? Is signing that paper really going to make a difference as to whether he and his wife stay together?

If they do split up it does not mean that the child will never get to see one of his parents. Also, lots of children are raised by single parents and it needn't be disastrous. I am sure workarounds can be found.

For the record, I don't have an issue with the visas not being given if the father is only named on the birth certificate. However, I do believe that they should be given if you are proven to be the legally registered father, regardless of your marriage status.

Perhaps you've had little or no experience with family, but a parent who 'visits' is incapable of providing the stability and consistency of a parent who actually resides with his child(ren). Therefore the child(ren) suffer.

My best mate was raised by his mother only with limited input from his father who lived overseas. He does not appear to have suffered, nor has his sister. I accept that a stable, loving 2 parent family is generally better, but to say that children being raised by one parent will suffer is doing a disservice to many single parent families.

[StateSix]

My point is that despite some of the hysterical postings on here, this rule change will not affect many people. But thanks for your input

Why posting to this thread if you are not effected and give a shit for those who are ?

Trying to bring a bit of rationality to a thread that seems to be suggesting that all unmarried fathers will soon be kicked out of Thailand by 'racist' Thais. I pointed out that there are alternatives for the majority, and that if push comes to shove and you are serious about staying here and raising your child then you could get married. is that OK to you?

[StateSix]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

A lot of people have families and are not married, the same as other countries many live in defacto relationships. Those on retirement visa's are generally the elderly who do not have young children. I think this may effect more people than you think.

I wouldn't have thought there were a huge number of people who were staying in Thailand via the no Imm 'O' based on child visa who could not apply for another visa. Most people with children would be working here and so would be eligible for a visa on this basis. Admittedly, there will some who are under 55 and have enough money that they do not need to work, but not that many.

Does it matter how many? Even one family f####ed up, split up etc due to this racist policy is TOO MUCH!

Calm down. If the visa by work permit or retirement is not an option, then marrying the mother and getting a visa by that method could be an option, if the alternative is that the family will be split up.

If the policy is applied equally to everyone, then how is it racist?

[samsiam]

Post # 46 by jsflynn603 includes the following:

"Further Paiboon states that a will becomes extremely important. 'Without a will, if your wife dies before you, her relatives may be able to take what they think belongs to her, including your house.'"

My Thai wife had no will and died last year. Our adult children live in the US. I went to the Taling Chan court and presented (1) my passport; (2) marriage certificate; (3) death certificate; (4) household registration booklet; and (5) a waiver signed by my children authorizing me to be executor of the estate. After a few months, while my petition was advertised in the newspaper, I appeared before the judge who asked a few questions and then gave me authorization to manage my wife's property. My name was added to the land deeds which I can now sell if I choose to. However the house can only be in the name of a Thai national. My wife's bank accounts, car registration, etc. were easily transferred to my name once I presented the court order.

So sorry for your loss. Thank you for coming here to put to rest some of the fears that other TV members have about losing their assets in the event their spouse passes.

What about the requirement to sell the property within 12 months....or because you are only deemed as manager, not owner, is that ok and carries on as normal ??

Who's name do you keep the land in now if you do not mind asking ??

[StateSix]

The rules for a visa have changed, not the rules for an extension of stay.

Regarding the new rules for a visa, the legality can be questioned as a father no longer can visit Thailand to see his child, unless married. That might be a violation of the rights of the child.

but if you stop your extension for any reason you wont be allowed a new visa without being married to the mother ?

you can always visit thatiland for 30 days visa exempt.

maybe there's more details missing ?

You can still convert to a stay for reason of being a family memebr of a Thai.

Let me explore this idea as it may help some.

Joe Blogs has a son in Thailand and is not married to the mother or the mother died/left etc. He works 6 months abroad each year to get enough money to stay with his son in Thailand for the other 6 months. He has been doing this for a few years.

Effective yesterday, he is not allowed to stay with his son for 6 months as he cannot get this non-imm O from outside the country. He can now only get the tourist visa.

If what you say is correct and Thailand is still offering conversion INSIDE Thailand for children (might change? Usually the consulates are easier than inside Thailand for anything so, if it is stopped outside then maybe they will stop inside Thailand too), then he must meet the financial requirements of 400,000 Baht in a Bank and this must be in a Thai bank at least 2 months PRIOR to the visa conversion.

This makes life hard to impossible for Joe as:

1. He may not have 400,000 baht.

2. How is he supposed to open a bank account on a TOURIST visa (as far as I am aware the banks do not open for tourists) and how is he going to have money in such bank account for the required time before (when his visa will expire before 2 months)?

I think you get my point, it is getting extremely difficult for Joe and I am sure you can think of numerous other situations where Joe suffers.

An example that will not apply to the majority, but a valid one nonetheless. If the mother has died then he could apply to the courts for custody as the father. It would then be possible for him to take the child to his home country.

If the couple have split up then it is trickier. If he legitimises himself as the father then he has shown a committment to the child and the rules should allow him to obtain a visa to visit. Hopefully the rules are relaxed to allow this.

Bt 400k in the bank is the requirement to get a 1 year extension of stay, not the actual visa itself. 90 day border runs would be required if he has the visa, but doesn't meet the requirements for a 1 year extension of stay.

Certain branches do allow people on a tourist visa to set up an account I believe. However, I agree a lot don't.

[StateSix]

I'm sorry but I would take very little from this at all.

There is no mention of the code for the Non immigrant visa though we assume it's a Non-0 visa.

This is hardly a new rule anyway, if you arn't married to the mother of the child what right should you have to get the visa anyway.

Seems like the only reason why you got the email in the first place was because some guy knocked up a girl in Pattaya and thought it would be a good way to get a visa.

Oh and to those who think it's racist go back and ask your own consulate if this would fly in your country, it wouldn't. have a kid in america to an unwed mother good luck if you think you'll get a green card.

I think this issue is deeper than what you're thinking. I've been here for 16 years and married for a little more than 12 years and have two children, both over 7. What would happen if my wife were to pass away? I wouldn't be married - does that then mean I would need to go out of the country to renew my visa on a regular basis or would I still be allowed to have a one year Non-Imm O?

What about people who choose not to marry?

What about Farang women married to Thai men? Will this rule apply to women too?

Does an unmarried father not have the same rights as a married one? Like it or not, if an unmarried person is supporting his child, they ought to have the same rights as a married father.

If you are on 1 year extension of stays then I seriously doubt that they would be denied in the event of your wife passing.

Are you working or over 55? If so then you could get a visa based on that.

If the alternative is that you would have to leave the country and not be able to see your children, why would you not get married?

I don't know whether it applies to females also.

If you are not married to the mother and have not legitimised the birth then unfortunately no, you do not have the same rights as a married father.

[TimTang]

Post # 46 by jsflynn603 includes the following:

"Further Paiboon states that a will becomes extremely important. 'Without a will, if your wife dies before you, her relatives may be able to take what they think belongs to her, including your house.'"

My Thai wife had no will and died last year. Our adult children live in the US. I went to the Taling Chan court and presented (1) my passport; (2) marriage certificate; (3) death certificate; (4) household registration booklet; and (5) a waiver signed by my children authorizing me to be executor of the estate. After a few months, while my petition was advertised in the newspaper, I appeared before the judge who asked a few questions and then gave me authorization to manage my wife's property. My name was added to the land deeds which I can now sell if I choose to. However the house can only be in the name of a Thai national. My wife's bank accounts, car registration, etc. were easily transferred to my name once I presented the court order.

So sorry for your loss. Thank you for coming here to put to rest some of the fears that other TV members have about losing their assets in the event their spouse passes.

I would also like to express my condolences and would add that your post is a valuable contribution to this forum.