New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[honcho]

i recently got a non o 1 yr visa from the consulate in auckland on the strength of having a thai son... when i asked the requirement they said i could get a 1 yr non o just by showing 3 $3000.00 in bank in new zealand and having a ticket to thailand... so who needs a kid anyway???

[EvolvingApe]

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

Poorly worded. I suspect they are talking about not sending a passport out to get a Thai Visa.

If they actually meant what they wrote, they are over stepping their job description.

There are other reasons that someone might send a passport out of the country.

Nice of them to pass on the info, though.

<deleted> are you getting at here, poorly worded and overstepping their job description? It seems crystal clear to me, if you aren't married to a Thai woman with a child who's birth certificate lists you as father you can't get the visa. That's all, end of story...

[EvolvingApe]

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

Poorly worded. I suspect they are talking about not sending a passport out to get a Thai Visa.

If they actually meant what they wrote, they are over stepping their job description.

There are other reasons that someone might send a passport out of the country.

Nice of them to pass on the info, though.

<deleted> are you getting at here, poorly worded and overstepping their job description? It seems crystal clear to me, if you aren't married to a Thai woman with a child who's birth certificate lists you as father you can't get the visa. That's all, end of story...

Further, isn't the rest a basic statement of fact that I had previously considered common knowledge? Don't send your passport out of the country, ever, for any reason. I knew that before ever leaving my home country, thought everyone did...

[TimTang]

Next year they'll probably double the bank balance and income requirements for retiree and marriage visas. That should get rid of a few more thousand undesirables.

[MANICMINER]

It has been discussed on these forums that some immigration offices will issue 60 day extensions (based on child) multiple times, provided you leave the country and get a 30 day visa exempt in between each extension. If these new rules do spread to most consulates, i think more fathers will be considering this option, if they do not meet the financial requirements for a 1 year extension.

[TimTang]

It has been discussed on these forums that some immigration offices will issue 60 day extensions (based on child) multiple times, provided you leave the country and get a 30 day visa exempt in between each extension. If these new rules do spread to most consulates, i think more fathers will be considering this option, if they do not meet the financial requirements for a 1 year extension.

60...30...60...30...60...etc... What a wonderful life!

[puchooay]

So lets say for example that the name of the father on the birth certificate was legally binding even if you are not married to the mother.

Lets say that the Thai authorities then go after a "father" for support of that child.

I've never heard of such a thing, AFAIK there isn't any legal obligation to support a child here just because you donated your sperm, and most Thais act as if there isn't a moral one either.

The woman would need to hire a lawyer and prove paternity to win a civil case, but I doubt it would be enforceable, AFAICT the "authorities" (whoever you're talking about) don't give a crap.

> I suspect they are talking about not sending a passport out to get a Thai Visa. If they actually meant what they wrote, they are over stepping their job description.

No, it is illegal for a foreigner to not have their original passport available for inspection at all times. In theory you're supposed to have it within your reach anywhere anytime. In practice a copy will usually suffice, but technically - or in reality if you're ever in a serious situatation, I reckon only an official document from the issuing government would suffice.

If you read what I said then you may understand better. I did say "what if". It was in response to those complaining that they could not get a visa when their name is on the childs birth certificate because they are not married to the mother.

[Brewsta]

i recently got a non o 1 yr visa from the consulate in auckland on the strength of having a thai son... when i asked the requirement they said i could get a 1 yr non o just by showing 3 $3000.00 in bank in new zealand and having a ticket to thailand... so who needs a kid anyway???

Same experience..... simple application.....and swift...... Thai Consulates are very helpful in my experience if you are in your own country,........took me 15 minutes to get my last Non Imm 'O' in Hull

Edited February 21, 2012 by Brewsta

[ALFREDO]

MANICMINERI

How, a one year extension of a Non Immigrant O, if I do not get a Non Immi O in the first place?

===To be eligible to apply for this type of visa you must also be married to the mother of the child and have an official marriage certificate." =

TimTang

60...30...60...30...60...etc... What a wonderful life

I see that coming, mixed, with some, 15 Days Landborders and some Tourist Visas, on the end more expensive, with all the travelling.

Or, I have to marry? Good for my GF, if I marry legally with my Homecountrys laws also. She gets a nice pension than, should do that, if she starts to be really nice! Until now, not lucky with that wish so.

Edited February 21, 2012 by ALFREDO

[StateSix]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

A lot of people have families and are not married, the same as other countries many live in defacto relationships. Those on retirement visa's are generally the elderly who do not have young children. I think this may effect more people than you think.

I wouldn't have thought there were a huge number of people who were staying in Thailand via the no Imm 'O' based on child visa who could not apply for another visa. Most people with children would be working here and so would be eligible for a visa on this basis. Admittedly, there will some who are under 55 and have enough money that they do not need to work, but not that many.

[StateSix]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

I know someone who is in his 30's, has a child with his Thai girlfriend and supports his gf, child, and gf's parents via rental income from overseas. He is left with 2 options - boarder runs every 2 weeks until that option is eliminated, or marry girlfriend. Forced marriages are successful even less often than those not forced.

What is a concern for many I'm certain this does effect is when the Thai mother of the child and foreign father split up. If father wants to continue to be involved in child's life, he will have to remove the child from Thailand, and therefore child will be raised without mother, or father leaves without child and child is raised without father. Either way it is disastrous for the child. Once again, the Thai government not thinking, just doing.

Re your friend, what difference does going signing a piece of paper at the local Amphur really make if it enables him to stay with his family? Is signing that paper really going to make a difference as to whether he and his wife stay together?

If they do split up it does not mean that the child will never get to see one of his parents. Also, lots of children are raised by single parents and it needn't be disastrous. I am sure workarounds can be found.

For the record, I don't have an issue with the visas not being given if the father is only named on the birth certificate. However, I do believe that they should be given if you are proven to be the legally registered father, regardless of your marriage status.

[mussen]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

A lot of people have families and are not married, the same as other countries many live in defacto relationships. Those on retirement visa's are generally the elderly who do not have young children. I think this may effect more people than you think.

I wouldn't have thought there were a huge number of people who were staying in Thailand via the no Imm 'O' based on child visa who could not apply for another visa. Most people with children would be working here and so would be eligible for a visa on this basis. Admittedly, there will some who are under 55 and have enough money that they do not need to work, but not that many.

Not that many being how many? Also how long is a piece of string?

[IMA_FARANG]

Reading through some of the replies it seems to me like many people are over reacting.

If, just for example, your Thai wife dies....even under Thai law that death does not "end" your legal marriage at the time your child was born.

All it means legally is that you WERE marrried legally at the time of the child's birth...

that your marriage ended legally sometime later with the death of your wife...

and therefore due to your legal marriage at the time of the child's birth to the Thai mother you can get a dependents extension to your visa as the survivor of that legal marriage...

and, I'm willing to bet, that if you applied for a visa to visit your child in Thailand later with legal proof of that marriage and it's ending by the death of your Thai wife...Hull would grant you that visa.

All they are really saying, although in a poorly phrased way, is that if you claim to want a visa to come to Thailand to support your child by marriage to a Thai, you're going to need legal proof of that marriage,

Convince them of that fact, and they can and will give you that visa.

If you can't convince them of that fact...you're not going to get the visa.

But many dont legally marry..

Yet still support the child.

--------------

Yes, I am one of them that supports a Thai family..

Or, more correctly, I support my Thai Girlfriend's children (3 of them by her previous marriage)...but none of the children are mine. The youngest of her children is 35 years old now, and I have supported the family since he was 5 years old.

But that's my personal choice...and not what this topic is about anyhow.

[newsweird]

TIT for TAT nothing more. Thai women who seek visas to the west have tried numerous ways of obtaining them from marriages to children to no avail. This is the Thai way of "we'll show you". There are many alternatives to getting a visa for Thailand, don't sweat it.

By the way, did the woman who threatened suicide, at the British embassy, for Valentines day, over not getting her visa, go through with it? Or did she lose face in front of the whole world? I didn't see her there and even camped out for the show Good thing it was a free event.

[rizla]

Altho I may have missed it:

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

I can only assume that to renew a passport will require one to leave and return with a new one??

No.

You complete the application form and send it to Hong Kong with copies of your passport pages. When you get your new passport, you visit Thai Immigration who will move whatever visa/extension you are on from old to new.

Then you cut the corner off your old one.

What`s the position on extra pages ? as i`m sure i read on here that this can`t be done in bangkok anymore..thxs

[StateSix]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

A lot of people have families and are not married, the same as other countries many live in defacto relationships. Those on retirement visa's are generally the elderly who do not have young children. I think this may effect more people than you think.

I wouldn't have thought there were a huge number of people who were staying in Thailand via the no Imm 'O' based on child visa who could not apply for another visa. Most people with children would be working here and so would be eligible for a visa on this basis. Admittedly, there will some who are under 55 and have enough money that they do not need to work, but not that many.

Not that many being how many? Also how long is a piece of string?

My point is that despite some of the hysterical postings on here, this rule change will not affect many people. But thanks for your input

[venturalaw]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

I know someone who is in his 30's, has a child with his Thai girlfriend and supports his gf, child, and gf's parents via rental income from overseas. He is left with 2 options - boarder runs every 2 weeks until that option is eliminated, or marry girlfriend. Forced marriages are successful even less often than those not forced.

What is a concern for many I'm certain this does effect is when the Thai mother of the child and foreign father split up. If father wants to continue to be involved in child's life, he will have to remove the child from Thailand, and therefore child will be raised without mother, or father leaves without child and child is raised without father. Either way it is disastrous for the child. Once again, the Thai government not thinking, just doing.

Re your friend, what difference does going signing a piece of paper at the local Amphur really make if it enables him to stay with his family? Is signing that paper really going to make a difference as to whether he and his wife stay together?

If they do split up it does not mean that the child will never get to see one of his parents. Also, lots of children are raised by single parents and it needn't be disastrous. I am sure workarounds can be found.

For the record, I don't have an issue with the visas not being given if the father is only named on the birth certificate. However, I do believe that they should be given if you are proven to be the legally registered father, regardless of your marriage status.

Perhaps you've had little or no experience with family, but a parent who 'visits' is incapable of providing the stability and consistency of a parent who actually resides with his child(ren). Therefore the child(ren) suffer.

[AngryParent]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

A lot of people have families and are not married, the same as other countries many live in defacto relationships. Those on retirement visa's are generally the elderly who do not have young children. I think this may effect more people than you think.

I wouldn't have thought there were a huge number of people who were staying in Thailand via the no Imm 'O' based on child visa who could not apply for another visa. Most people with children would be working here and so would be eligible for a visa on this basis. Admittedly, there will some who are under 55 and have enough money that they do not need to work, but not that many.

Does it matter how many? Even one family f####ed up, split up etc due to this racist policy is TOO MUCH!

[YoghurtLX]

My point is that despite some of the hysterical postings on here, this rule change will not affect many people. But thanks for your input

Why posting to this thread if you are not effected and give a shit for those who are ?

[chris1970]

i sent hull an e-mail this morning and this was there reply ::

As far as we are aware you can apply for the non immigrant single or multiple entry O visa if you have a child in Thailand and are either married to a Thai national or have sole custody of the child. You would need to go to court and have legal papers drawn stating you have custody of the child.

Regards

[AngryParent]

The rules for a visa have changed, not the rules for an extension of stay.

Regarding the new rules for a visa, the legality can be questioned as a father no longer can visit Thailand to see his child, unless married. That might be a violation of the rights of the child.

but if you stop your extension for any reason you wont be allowed a new visa without being married to the mother ?

you can always visit thatiland for 30 days visa exempt.

maybe there's more details missing ?

You can still convert to a stay for reason of being a family memebr of a Thai.

Let me explore this idea as it may help some.

Joe Blogs has a son in Thailand and is not married to the mother or the mother died/left etc. He works 6 months abroad each year to get enough money to stay with his son in Thailand for the other 6 months. He has been doing this for a few years.

Effective yesterday, he is not allowed to stay with his son for 6 months as he cannot get this non-imm O from outside the country. He can now only get the tourist visa.

If what you say is correct and Thailand is still offering conversion INSIDE Thailand for children (might change? Usually the consulates are easier than inside Thailand for anything so, if it is stopped outside then maybe they will stop inside Thailand too), then he must meet the financial requirements of 400,000 Baht in a Bank and this must be in a Thai bank at least 2 months PRIOR to the visa conversion.

This makes life hard to impossible for Joe as:

1. He may not have 400,000 baht.

2. How is he supposed to open a bank account on a TOURIST visa (as far as I am aware the banks do not open for tourists) and how is he going to have money in such bank account for the required time before (when his visa will expire before 2 months)?

I think you get my point, it is getting extremely difficult for Joe and I am sure you can think of numerous other situations where Joe suffers.

[AngryParent]

i just re-read this is an embassy visa issuance rule. any confirmation from immigration in Thailand?

Immigration has nothing to do with visa issuance abroad.

Can I please ask you to have this news on the frontpage of Thai Visa as it is extremely important and has a considerable impact on many. Also, it may be the start of something even worse. If I had not been told about this I would not have viewed this backstreet thread.

Thanks.

[SPIKECM]

More stupidity from Thai consulates, I have taken care of my daughter since her mother <deleted>@ked off when she was 2 years old, she is now 4, I take her to school everyday and support her in every way possible. I am sure there are plenty more people in my situation?

I just got clarification from Hull. They need proof that your kid is at school if you are not married to their mother. I don't know where you get your visa from though.

[samsiam]

I think this just makes the requirements to prove you are the father more in line with Thai law where as before they would just accept the childs birth cert. I could be wrong on this but this is how I'm reading it.

I have the support of thai child visa and have had such for about 7 years now.

I am not married and had to get the court doc for proof...no dna test....they never just accepted birth cert alone before when I first applied for it.

[consigliere]

I'm sorry but I would take very little from this at all.

There is no mention of the code for the Non immigrant visa though we assume it's a Non-0 visa.

This is hardly a new rule anyway, if you arn't married to the mother of the child what right should you have to get the visa anyway.

Seems like the only reason why you got the email in the first place was because some guy knocked up a girl in Pattaya and thought it would be a good way to get a visa.

Oh and to those who think it's racist go back and ask your own consulate if this would fly in your country, it wouldn't. have a kid in america to an unwed mother good luck if you think you'll get a green card.

I think this issue is deeper than what you're thinking. I've been here for 16 years and married for a little more than 12 years and have two children, both over 7. What would happen if my wife were to pass away? I wouldn't be married - does that then mean I would need to go out of the country to renew my visa on a regular basis or would I still be allowed to have a one year Non-Imm O?

What about people who choose not to marry?

What about Farang women married to Thai men? Will this rule apply to women too?

Does an unmarried father not have the same rights as a married one? Like it or not, if an unmarried person is supporting his child, they ought to have the same rights as a married father.

[paulrobertlane]

Hi Guys

Question to those who are saying we dont have to send passport to Hong Kong but send copies. Can you clarify this for me as I have to do this next few days.

Here is the statement from the application "notes"

Many thanks.

What Supporting documents do I need?

You should submit the following documentation:

• Current 10 year British Passport. This must be the original passport, not a photocopy
  

Link http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/passports/what-passport/renewing-passport/steps-to-renew#documents

Edited February 21, 2012 by paulrobertlane

[AngryParent]

Hi Guys

Question to those who are saying we dont have to send passport to Hong Kong but send copies. Can you clarify this for me as I have to do this next few days.

Here is the statement from the application "notes"

Many thanks.

What Supporting documents do I need?

You should submit the following documentation:

• Current 10 year British Passport. This must be the original passport, not a photocopy
  

Link http://ukinhongkong....renew#documents

Read the bottom of the page about specific information for Thailand - DO NOT SEND YOUR PASSPORT ANYWHERE.

http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/passports/how-to-apply/thailand/renewals

Edited February 21, 2012 by AngryParent

[terryq]

Hi Guys

Question to those who are saying we dont have to send passport to Hong Kong but send copies. Can you clarify this for me as I have to do this next few days.

Here is the statement from the application "notes"

Many thanks.

What Supporting documents do I need?

You should submit the following documentation:

• Current 10 year British Passport. This must be the original passport, not a photocopy
  

Link http://ukinhongkong....renew#documents

Please read your own link where it says...

"IMPORTANT: As well as the documents listed here, please check the How to apply page for your country to see if there are any additional documents required locally."

and check this link for Thailand

http://ukinhongkong....ailand/renewals

where it says

"Specific requirements from Thailand

ORIGINAL PASSPORT: Thailand is an exception to the main guidance given on our primary website. It is not advised to be without your original passport in Thailand and we recognise this. You may therefore submit a clear photocopy of your passport....."

Edit Posted same time as AngryParent

Edited February 21, 2012 by terryq

[oldsailor35]

I'm sorry but I would take very little from this at all.

There is no mention of the code for the Non immigrant visa though we assume it's a Non-0 visa.

This is hardly a new rule anyway, if you arn't married to the mother of the child what right should you have to get the visa anyway.

Seems like the only reason why you got the email in the first place was because some guy knocked up a girl in Pattaya and thought it would be a good way to get a visa.

Oh and to those who think it's racist go back and ask your own consulate if this would fly in your country, it wouldn't. have a kid in america to an unwed mother good luck if you think you'll get a green card.

Seems an attempt at tackling the hundreds of British men who have these part time / sometimes second families on the go in Thailand –

OMG ! they would'nt do that. They are British old chap, and its just not cricket is it.

[Brewsta]

Sounds OK to me, consistent with many western nations. Don't have kids if you aren't going to fully commit to the relationship and their upbringing.

Absolutely. 12 yrs married to a Thai lass has shown me that one has to be totally committed to both points for the occasions when the 'gimme ££' raises its ugly head.....be strong and consistent has been my credo so far.