300,000 Baht Backhander To Secure A Job Teaching

[padeakin]

My Thai wife is in the process of paying 300,000 Baht to the 'big boss', to get a teaching job that pays 15,000 Baht per month.

Despite me trying to convince her that; 1.it is morally wrong to fuel corruption and 2. it does not make sense to pay so much for so little, she insists that it is normal practise and told me of several friends and family that have paid similar amounts for similar salary positions in local government offices. After much discussion I have refused to give her the money, now she has borrowed it from a cousin and is going ahead. I can not stop her, I think she has already made the first payment, but I am worried that corrupt 'big boss' could ask for more, and dismiss her if she does not keep paying, He knows she is married to a farang so probably thinks she has unlimited funds.

Is this really normal practise?

Anyone had similar experiences?

[talk2sam]

it is called tea money..but her's is exhorbitant....the people I know paid 150000 baht.. common pratice.

[gosompoi]

It is terrible and you are not alone feeling the way you do. Second it is over priced. I hate it, but until Thailand does something to discourage it, like rewarding whistle blowers not punishing them or creating a website www.ipaidteamoney.com it will continue. I am personal aware of many of these transactions and I will tell you the norm is 10x the monthly salary. She is getting robbed from every angle except she now has a job. The job should be hers if she is qualified without tea money. But we farang can not nor should we do anything.

[Loaded]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Loaded

[gosompoi]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

they see it as wrong, unfair and illegal but if you want a job or a raise at work greedy man up above is greedy and it is against the law to accuse without enough proof or self involvement.

[sirchai]

My neighbor, already 55, wanted to work a little closer to her home at a well- known high school in town. They were also asking for 300,000 baht, which made my friend pretty angry. It's also not about your qualifications, it's all about money. A director's position can be worth a few million baht.

[gosompoi]

You might remember Songkran girls played topless in the water, girls were fined 300 baht, person who took the video exposing the illegal activity got a 300,000 baht fine or Jet ski operators stealing from tourist got a warning but the man who video taped it and gave it to the news...150,000 baht fine. Laws are not written to protect the people just those who have money.

[Thaddeus]

I wonder how much the 'big boss' had to pay for his job?

[anon10]

Wait till she needs money for the family !!!

[Loaded]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

they see it as wrong, unfair and illegal but if you want a job or a raise at work greedy man up above is greedy and it is against the law to accuse without enough proof or self involvement.

It's part of their culture. The idea of 'kin muang', or eat the country, started during the reign of RAMA 5. The King allowed provincial governors and tax collectors to skim a percentage of government revenues for themselves in lieu of official salaries. Tax 'farming' became highly lucrative and franchises were expensive. The Shinwatra's first family fortune came through tax farming in San Kampaeng. Kin muang is still highly prevalent especially within local and national government.

It's inappropriate to say it's greedy because the people who pay will use their new job to enrich themselves by claiming back the money indirectly whether it's a police captain's position in Pattaya receiving payments from whore houses or government teachers who will milk the benefits available to government teachers with little regard to paying back loans. They wouldn't be paying such large amounts for nothing. They know the privileges they are buying.

300K is a lot for a government teacher franchise. However, she wouldn't be paying this unless she knew she could get it back. Thais don't like to work for nothing.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Loaded

[4evermaat]

have any foreigners had to pay tea money to secure a job? Or is this only thais? I understood that all that was needed was bachelor/master's degree or tefl certification. Have any foreigners also had to pay an "application fee" to apply?

edit:

..........

It's part of their culture. The idea of 'kin muang', or eat the country, started during the reign of RAMA 5. The King allowed provincial governors and tax collectors to skim a percentage of government revenues for themselves in lieu of official salaries. Tax 'farming' became highly lucrative and franchises were expensive. The Shinwatra's first family fortune came through tax farming in San Kampaeng. Kin muang is still highly prevalent especially within local and national government.

It's inappropriate to say it's greedy because the people who pay will use their new job to enrich themselves by claiming back the money indirectly whether it's a police captain's position in Pattaya receiving payments from whore houses or government teachers who will milk the benefits available to government teachers with little regard to paying back loans. They wouldn't be paying such large amounts for nothing. They know the privileges they are buying.

300K is a lot for a government teacher franchise. However, she wouldn't be paying this unless she knew she could get it back. Thais don't like to work for nothing.

This is very interesting indeed. Actually, I never heard of people having to pay to get a job. But this sounds like more of a business opportunity (almost mlm/network marketing lol) structure.

Edited February 22, 2012 by 4evermaat

[ericthai]

Standard practice. My next door neighbor who is my wifes cousin had to pay i think 2 million or something crazy like that to become principle at a school. The pay is low but he expects to recoup the investment on the same thing kick backs.

You might want to help her out, she is going to do anyway.

[KRS1]

Maybe it was 150k but told you it was 300k incase you would only decide to give half?

[Loaded]

have any foreigners had to pay tea money to secure a job? Or is this only thais? I understood that all that was needed was bachelor/master's degree or tefl certification. Have any foreigners also had to pay an "application fee" to apply?

Never heard of a farang being asked for tea money.

[Berkshire]

News to me. Have never seen or heard of anyone having to pay to secure a job in Thailand. Very odd.

[sparebox2]

Any proof of corruption took place?

Else it is just another allegation.

[thunder30101]

Look at it this way most thais want a gov. job because it is the only one in thailand with a pension (lifetime position too) and usually for teachers a lump sum payout when they retire, there are also many other perks such as access to low interest loans without collateral, free school/health care for their children, white envelopes for fees from parents, etc. Thais in education have two options, be a teacher for your career and skim the system for what you can, dont work much (dont teach anything to students in class then charge them tutoring fees in the evening and on weekends, many ajarns have their own cram schools which are very lucrative) or they can go the admin route which is where the real money is, but it is a difficult club to get into and also very hard to advance without allies in your camp. Admin is also very unreliable as most schools change them out every so often so networking with the right people is very important. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this as thailand is run by corruption from top to bottom, the place would fall into chaos without it as they have never known any other way and refuse to change it. 300k isnt really a bad investment for her depending on her age.

[Kilgore Trout]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

So by your logic it is ok for Somalis to cut off the clitoris of little girls, right? As you said " It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money[performing the removal of a clitoris], so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different".

Wake up; although an extreme example; clitorectomies are wrong and so is corruption!!! These are the people that are teaching children!!

If ever there was a Thai apologist......

[Thaddeus]

News to me. Have never seen or heard of anyone having to pay to secure a job in Thailand. Very odd.

Is this post intentionally designed to bait or are you truly unaware of what happens around you.

Any job on offer were it is possible to make money over and above the salary carries a price tag.

I know two Thai men here who had to pay 20k Baht each just to get a job on Garbage Collection.

[harrry]

You may have refused to give her tt

he money and she may have got the debt herself but remember you are liable for her debts in a marriage.

[Loaded]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

So by your logic it is ok for Somalis to cut off the clitoris of little girls, right? As you said " It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money[performing the removal of a clitoris], so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different".

Wake up; although an extreme example; clitorectomies are wrong and so is corruption!!! These are the people that are teaching children!!

If ever there was a Thai apologist......

From my explanation of how Thais rationalize tea money to female cirumcision in Somalia - wow!

I really don't know what else to say other than pass the bong.

[UbonOz]

That is twenty months working for nothing, plus, the interest on the loan, she will be close to retirement before any income is hers. Unbelievable!!!!!! Why would anybody do that, cheaper to stay at home.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

God gave man a penis and a brain, unfortunately, did not give sufficient blood supply to run both at the same time.

[UbonOz]

Give her 15,000 a month out of your pocket, you will be way in front

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

God gave man a penis and a brain, unfortunately, did not give sufficient blood supply to run both at the same time.

[MAJIC]

Apart from the Bribery and Moral issue,it means the wife will be working for 20 months for nothing,and only break even,

IMO Economic madness,and maybe some more cash will be required after the 20 months period is up?

If anyone can buy a Teachers job,in this way,then it's no wonder Education standards are poor in Thailand.

Edited February 22, 2012 by MAJIC

[lannarebirth]

Standard practice. My next door neighbor who is my wifes cousin had to pay i think 2 million or something crazy like that to become principle at a school. The pay is low but he expects to recoup the investment on the same thing kick backs.

You might want to help her out, she is going to do anyway.

I agree. Maybe his wife can earn enough to send their own children to an International School where their own children's minds won't necessarily be crippled/addled/maimed.

[MAJIC]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

they see it as wrong, unfair and illegal but if you want a job or a raise at work greedy man up above is greedy and it is against the law to accuse without enough proof or self involvement.

It's part of their culture. The idea of 'kin muang', or eat the country, started during the reign of RAMA 5. The King allowed provincial governors and tax collectors to skim a percentage of government revenues for themselves in lieu of official salaries. Tax 'farming' became highly lucrative and franchises were expensive. The Shinwatra's first family fortune came through tax farming in San Kampaeng. Kin muang is still highly prevalent especially within local and national government.

It's inappropriate to say it's greedy because the people who pay will use their new job to enrich themselves by claiming back the money indirectly whether it's a police captain's position in Pattaya receiving payments from whore houses or government teachers who will milk the benefits available to government teachers with little regard to paying back loans. They wouldn't be paying such large amounts for nothing. They know the privileges they are buying.

300K is a lot for a government teacher franchise. However, she wouldn't be paying this unless she knew she could get it back. Thais don't like to work for nothing.

"Franchise" I've never heard corruption called that before!

[tolstoy]

I know that it isn't rare but that doesn't make it the standard. Not that I am any expert or that I know that many people but most of my friends here are Thai and I don't know anyone that has had to pay a bribe.

[lannarebirth]

Look at it this way most thais want a gov. job because it is the only one in thailand with a pension (lifetime position too) and usually for teachers a lump sum payout when they retire, there are also many other perks such as access to low interest loans without collateral, free school/health care for their children, white envelopes for fees from parents, etc. Thais in education have two options, be a teacher for your career and skim the system for what you can, dont work much (dont teach anything to students in class then charge them tutoring fees in the evening and on weekends, many ajarns have their own cram schools which are very lucrative) or they can go the admin route which is where the real money is, but it is a difficult club to get into and also very hard to advance without allies in your camp. Admin is also very unreliable as most schools change them out every so often so networking with the right people is very important. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this as thailand is run by corruption from top to bottom, the place would fall into chaos without it as they have never known any other way and refuse to change it. 300k isnt really a bad investment for her depending on her age.

You're not wrong, but it wasn't always this way. Far from it. My dear MIL, before Alzheimers overtook her, used to be the chief administrator of Ayutthaya schools. I would bet my life she never took a "backhander" in her life. She did used to report people would offer her things in consideration of special treatment. She used to tell me that in every case those people went to the back of the line. BTW, she's been retired for 20+ years and her pension, not even to mention her medical benefits (more than 30,000/mo just for meds) are far superior to the salary the OP's wife is trying to claim.

[lonexpat]

Maybe in their society it isn't negative or as negative as we perceive it. IE It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money, so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different.

So by your logic it is ok for Somalis to cut off the clitoris of little girls, right? As you said " It's common practice, the wife sees it as OK and nobody will ever be arrested or punished for taking the tea money[performing the removal of a clitoris], so big clues there as to how they view this. Our societies and cultures are very different".

Wake up; although an extreme example; clitorectomies are wrong and so is corruption!!! These are the people that are teaching children!!

If ever there was a Thai apologist......

Wrong. They are people making money and not the slightest bit interested in the children"s education. Next week the foreing teachers test 153 children for MEP 1 next year.Already 10 have passed. Go figure.

[ManOnTheRoad]

Well pay 300K for a teaching job ? why not use the money to go somewhere perhaps holiday or something haha