webfact Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 BURNING ISSUE Thaksin looks to victory at every level Piyanart Srivalo The Nation BANGKOK: -- Several politicians from the ruling Pheu Thai Party, the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai party and members of the Shinawatra family reportedly visited their boss, Thaksin Shinawatra, in Beijing last week. The fugitive ex-prime minister's guests included Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, banned ex-Thai Rak Thai politician Sudarat Keyuraphan and Bangkok MP Karun Hosakul, as well as Thaksin's sister Yaowapa Wongsawat and his son Panthongtae. Their discussion was about how to win the battle at every level of election. "The boss wanted to win back the political base in all areas, after losing [some areas] to our rivals," said a party leader who asked not to be named. One of the biggest polls taking place this year is for the election of presidents of the Provincial Administration Organisation (PAO) in each of the 76 provinces. The elections will not be held on one particular day, as they are dependent on when each incumbent's term expires. Winning in the PAO elections would be an excellent pointer to victory in the next general election, which Thaksin expects could be held soon after amendment of the Constitution is completed, a party source said. The source said Thaksin might have his sister, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, call a House dissolution after the country gets a new charter, the content of which is expected to favour the ruling Pheu Thai Party, as it will be able to control the majority of the members of a new Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA). Parliament will tomorrow consider three separate charter-amendment drafts to seek changes to Article 291 of the post-coup 2007 Constitution and pave the way for the setting up of a CDA. With expectations that a new charter would be completed by the beginning of next year, at the earliest, calling a general election soon after that would be perfect timing for the 111 banned politicians, who will be freed from the ban this May, to make a comeback to politics. However, while waiting for the charter to be completed and then a general election, Thaksin plans to reshuffle his sister's Cabinet for a second time once the 111 are no longer subject to the ban. Some of the 111 banned politicians, such as Sudarat, Pongthep Thepkanchana, Prommin Lertsuridej, Chaturon Chaisang, Varathep Ratanakorn and Suranand Vejjajiva, would then be appointed ministers in Yingluck's Cabinet. The next Cabinet reshuffle is, apparently, a win-win strategy. First, Yingluck will have more experienced people to help her. Second, the 111 currently banned politicians will have a chance to "remove the rust". Third, Thaksin also wants to win the battle in the Bangkok governor election, where the current office holder's term ends next January. Thaksin plans to appoint Sudarat, formerly head of the party's Bangkok MPs, as deputy prime minister overseeing Bangkok in the next reshuffle, to prepare her for running in the gubernatorial election, the source said. But if Sudarat were still needed in Yingluck's government as a Cabinet member, Pheu Thai would then recruit other candidates to run in the election. One of the most important qualifications for a Bangkok governor candidate is the ability to solve flood problems, according to a party source. "We believe we have a high chance [of winning], but we have to find a good, high-profile and outstanding figure to run as our candidate," the source said. Thaksin saw an opportunity to win the battle in Bangkok after the clash between the Democrat Party's Bangkok governor, MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra, and Yingluck's government during the devastating flooding that hit Bangkok late last year. "The Democrat Party, through Sukhumbhand, failed to impress Bangkokians over tackling the problem, despite [the party] being in administration [of the capital] for almost eight years. So it's time for us to win back Bangkokians' hearts," Thaksin was quoted as saying. -- The Nation 2012-02-22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PingManDan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Great, and so he should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janverbeem Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 However, while waiting for the charter to be completed and then a general election, Thaksin plans to reshuffle his sister's Cabinet for a second time once the 111 are no longer subject to the ban.Some of the 111 banned politicians, such as Sudarat, Pongthep Thepkanchana, Prommin Lertsuridej, Chaturon Chaisang, Varathep Ratanakorn and Suranand Vejjajiva, would then be appointed ministers in Yingluck's Cabinet. So in Thailand you can with a cabinet reshuffle appoint citizens that weren't even eligible for election as minister?I always wondered what was the meaning of democracy. The Democrat Party, through Sukhumbhand, failed to impress Bangkokians over tackling the problem, despite [the party] being in administration [of the capital] for almost eight years. So it's time for us to win back Bangkokians' hearts," Thaksin was quoted as saying. I doubt very much that the PTP impressed in handling the floods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ianf Posted February 22, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2012 Every level, off course, means total dictatorship. I fear for the future of Thailand with this meglomaniac pulling to strings. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So in Thailand you can with a cabinet reshuffle appoint citizens that weren't even eligible for election as minister?I always wondered what was the meaning of democracy. You are not elected as a minister but selected also, at the point of these people being appointed if it happens, they would be eligible for election anyway. As for Thailand having citizens as ministers instead of elected mps, it is not unusual and has happenned many times in places such as the UK - the Lord Chancellor, basically the top lawman responsible for the legal system and judges, was not drawn from the sitting MPs but selected for his expertise and abilities (or it could be because he was a close personal friend of Tony Blair for many many years). Also it is not unusual for ministers to give up their MP status such as the current lot where some relinquished their positions to allow for more party list MPs to enter parliament, or the previous government where Suthep stepped down as an MP to avoid legal charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insight Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I will be very surprised if they come anywhere close to installing a PT rep as the Bangkok Governor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So in Thailand you can with a cabinet reshuffle appoint citizens that weren't even eligible for election as minister?I always wondered what was the meaning of democracy. You are not elected as a minister but selected also, at the point of these people being appointed if it happens, they would be eligible for election anyway. As for Thailand having citizens as ministers instead of elected mps, it is not unusual and has happenned many times in places such as the UK - the Lord Chancellor, basically the top lawman responsible for the legal system and judges, was not drawn from the sitting MPs but selected for his expertise and abilities (or it could be because he was a close personal friend of Tony Blair for many many years). Also it is not unusual for ministers to give up their MP status such as the current lot where some relinquished their positions to allow for more party list MPs to enter parliament, or the previous government where Suthep stepped down as an MP to avoid legal charges. Well, it's reassuring to have a precedent for undemocratic practices. It shows we are on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This story must be a total fabrication, as Thaksin announced years ago, that he had "Quit Thai politics", so he surely couldn't now be deciding when to hold elections, or who to put into what Cabinet-seat. Or is his word simply not to be trusted ? And his view of 'true democracy' that means dominating the political base in all areas, or dominating the Constitution-ammendment body, surely even his most-loyal & fervent admirers must agree, that would be a dictatorship, not a democracy ? Worrying times for Thailand, while he continues to seek to strengthen his already-too-strong grip on power, rather than to help the poor to improve their lives through better-education or improved economic-opportunities. Ah but that will all come, suggest his supporters, once he's firmly and irrevocably in-control. Famous Last Words ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This story must be a total fabrication, as Thaksin announced years ago, that he had "Quit Thai politics", so he surely couldn't now be deciding when to hold elections, or who to put into what Cabinet-seat. Or is his word simply not to be trusted ? And his view of 'true democracy' that means dominating the political base in all areas, or dominating the Constitution-ammendment body, surely even his most-loyal & fervent admirers must agree, that would be a dictatorship, not a democracy ? Worrying times for Thailand, while he continues to seek to strengthen his already-too-strong grip on power, rather than to help the poor to improve their lives through better-education or improved economic-opportunities. Ah but that will all come, suggest his supporters, once he's firmly and irrevocably in-control. Famous Last Words ! Unless the writer for the Nation was present at the meeting, just how exactly would he know all the details? Did the benevolent Chinese hosts prepare a transcript? Was the writer briefed by Mr. Thaksin? Frankly, I can do without these unfounded claims. I can also do without mention of Mr. Thaksin for some time. The Nation should consider another obsession. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The fact that PTP doesn't say what and why they want to change the constitution is proof enough, for me, that what they intend to do is unethical to say the least. If they had a goal of improving the constitution in a way that would be beneficial to the whole country they would be screaming it from the rooftops to gain support for the (hopefully) time when the amendments will be put to the vote on a referendum. The way its being not discussed stinks of a self serving hidden agenda at work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krading Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 What will there be left to talk about if Mr T ever dies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimay11 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) And his view of 'true democracy' that means dominating the political base in all areas, or dominating the Constitution-ammendment body, surely even his most-loyal & fervent admirers must agree, that would be a dictatorship, not a democracy ? "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned, Democracy is just a tool, not our goal". Thaksin Shinawatra December 10, 2003. Edited February 22, 2012 by pimay11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The fact that PTP doesn't say what and why they want to change the constitution is proof enough, for me, that what they intend to do is unethical to say the least. If they had a goal of improving the constitution in a way that would be beneficial to the whole country they would be screaming it from the rooftops to gain support for the (hopefully) time when the amendments will be put to the vote on a referendum. The way its being not discussed stinks of a self serving hidden agenda at work. The problem with this is that as soon as they make it clear what they want to change the same crowd will be on their soapboxes crying that the government is undermining any CDA that is set up by stipulating what changes to make. As far as I am aware two of the main articles they are unhappy with are article 237 which deals with the disolution of parties where they want it made harder for parties to be disolved for 'political' reasons but it has been suggested that firmer penalties be put in place for individuals who break the rules. The other article in question is 309 which is the amnesty bit. It is worth reading as it does raise quite a few issues: Article 309. All matters guaranteed by the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand (Interim Edition), B.E. 2549 (2006) to be lawful and constitutional, including all acts related to such matters whether before or after the promulgation date of this Constitution, shall be considered constitutional. Taken from translation of Constitution found here: http://www.isaanlawy...%20-%202550.pdf The questions over these two article also arose during the previous government as per the following article: http://asiancorrespo...-protests-past/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blows Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 What will there be left to talk about if Mr T ever dies? Could we find out soon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blows Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Is it time to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra dynasty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryII Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Thaksin looks to victory at every level, #1^ This is correct I have seen evidence of it. In particular, I saw a big PTP/UDD effort to support the campaign of their person in an Obitaw election. But it is not only one-way. I have also seen Bhumjaithai operatives trying to cozy up to PTP/UDD entities. These BJT people are sort of sitting out there in political no-mans land "The fugitive ex-prime minister's guests included................" There is the 'fugitive' thing again. The Opposition seems to think that repetition best serves their agenda. Who am I to argue. Repetition begets repetition. So here I go. Use of this term is agenda, pure and simple. Anyone who doesn't believe that, dont read further. No point in wasting my time. Yesterday I saw an aricle where they managed to shoehorn it into the title, and repeat it two times in the body. He is not a 'fugitive'....... Politically, he is an 'exile', and this is political. For an Opposition who managed to railroad their political nemesis out of the country and facilitate convictions in post-coup courts to call him a fugitive, is ridiculous. The term is laden with innuendo which the Opposition is trying to project onto their political enemy. Everybody knows it is a term for murderers, rapists, jail escapees on the lam, etc. Used by political enemies, is an attempt to denigrate, besmirch, villify and impugn criminal contemptuousness on a political adversary they fear. The source said Thaksin might have his sister........ Thaksin plans to reshuffle his sister's Cabinet........ The authors attempt to denigrate and diminish the Prime Minister. Doing it this way, also diminishes and denigrates all those voters who selected them. A situation that was fully declared. Edited February 22, 2012 by CalgaryII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 And his view of 'true democracy' that means dominating the political base in all areas, or dominating the Constitution-ammendment body, surely even his most-loyal & fervent admirers must agree, that would be a dictatorship, not a democracy ? "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned, Democracy is just a tool, not our goal". Thaksin Shinawatra December 10, 2003. Quite. The former-PM should spell out, just what is "our goal" which he is aiming for, if it isn't a democracy with normal legal-constraints & checks-and-balances on whatever government is in-power ? Many posters fear that the apparent 'cult-of-personality' which has been carefully-crafted over the past decade, and the objective of an unassailable single-party dominating all the reigns-of-power, are aimed at a dictatorship rather than a democracy where parties compete to deliver improvements for the poor & the country as-a-whole. Other posters seem blissfully-unaware of the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryII Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) janverbeem, #3 I doubt very much that the PTP impressed in handling the floods. Are you aware of any other nation facing a similar national disaster, which did better? New Orleans obviously comes to mind, but that wouldn't be fair. Everyone knows the screw-up that was. But to criticise Thailand's handling of the disaster in a comparative vacuum doesn't fly. It could very well come out in a study on the handling of national disasters, that Thailand would be at the top of the list. Should that be the case, then suggesting Ms. Y and company mishandled the crisis would obviously be incorrect. One needs to take the Oppositional FROC-flogging trying to capitalize on a national disaster, not as a factual account. Doesn't mean there were no mistakes, but taken at face value, one could almost conclude from the Opposition's FROC-flogging, that there was another disaster all by itself. Just so much hot air and not appreciated by the electoral majority that had just finished electing Ms. Y. Edited February 22, 2012 by CalgaryII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 And his view of 'true democracy' that means dominating the political base in all areas, or dominating the Constitution-ammendment body, surely even his most-loyal & fervent admirers must agree, that would be a dictatorship, not a democracy ? "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned, Democracy is just a tool, not our goal". Thaksin Shinawatra December 10, 2003. Quite. The former-PM should spell out, just what is "our goal" which he is aiming for, if it isn't a democracy with normal legal-constraints & checks-and-balances on whatever government is in-power ? Many posters fear that the apparent 'cult-of-personality' which has been carefully-crafted over the past decade, and the objective of an unassailable single-party dominating all the reigns-of-power, are aimed at a dictatorship rather than a democracy where parties compete to deliver improvements for the poor & the country as-a-whole. Other posters seem blissfully-unaware of the possibility. To be fair, Thaksin did spell out what his goal was, it is just missed off this frequently used quote which is a shame as it does add more context to what he was trying to say. The next bit was: The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress. Whether he actually meant it is of course a very different matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blows Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The Shinawatra form of democracy. “Where in the world is a single-party government called a dictatorship? What's wrong with it when people have faith in me?” Thaksin Shinawatra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buchholz Posted February 22, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2012 There is the 'fugitive' thing again. The Opposition seems to think that repetition best serves their agenda. Who am I to argue. Use of this term is agenda, pure and simple. Can we put this continued malarkey where it belongs.... in the trash bin. In your world, the opposition controls Reuters... Fugitive ex-PM Thaksin http://www.msnbc.msn...t/#.T0Rx_1buUbQ In your world, the opposition controls Bloomberg News... Sister of Fugitive Ex-Premier Thaksin http://www.bloomberg...tion-party.html In your world, the opposition controls TIME magazine... Will Thailand's Most Famous Fugitive Get His Passport Back? http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz1n5CU5wTk In your world, the opposition controls AFP... Fugitive ex-leader Thaksin http://www.google.co...2833ba7fb93.2f1 In your world, the opposition controls BBC... fugitive ex-leader Thaksin Shinawatra http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-15831430 In your world, the opposition controls the New York Times... Thailand’s fugitive former prime minister http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/27/world/asia/27thai.html You are very welcome to join the rest of the world wherein such nonsensical conspiracies are relegated to the Jokes Forum. . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryII Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Every level, off course, means total dictatorship. I fear for the future of Thailand with this meglomaniac pulling to strings. Not to worry ianf Don't worry, be happy. If things were that bad, I trust the electorate to do something about it. Not coup-ists......electorates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blows Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Without minority rights, human rights and equal justice, democracy can be a very oppressive regime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The Shinawatra form of democracy. “Where in the world is a single-party government called a dictatorship? What's wrong with it when people have faith in me?” Thaksin Shinawatra A very true quote - can you answer it??? I am from the UK where it is the norm though the latest government is made up of a coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 He can jaunt around all he wants, if he comes back he will likely be Bunburried in the end. No matter what deals he thinks he's made. He and his motivations are feared and distrusted far beyond the bounds of publicly stated words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Without minority rights, human rights and equal justice, democracy can be a very oppressive regime. I can't argue with that. However, I draw your attention to the treatment of minorities in Thailand. It is an approach that is the same for all political parties. Therefore, the issue you raise is most likely one of national culture and not the political practices of one man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryII Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) There is the 'fugitive' thing again. The Opposition seems to think that repetition best serves their agenda. Who am I to argue. Use of this term is agenda, pure and simple. Can we put this continued malarkey where it belongs.... in the trash bin. In your world, the opposition controls Reuters... Fugitive ex-PM Thaksin http://www.msnbc.msn...t/#.T0Rx_1buUbQ In your world, the opposition controls Bloomberg News... Sister of Fugitive Ex-Premier Thaksin http://www.bloomberg...tion-party.html In your world, the opposition controls TIME magazine... Will Thailand's Most Famous Fugitive Get His Passport Back? http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz1n5CU5wTk In your world, the opposition controls AFP... Fugitive ex-leader Thaksin http://www.google.co...2833ba7fb93.2f1 In your world, the opposition controls BBC... fugitive ex-leader Thaksin Shinawatra http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-15831430 In your world, the opposition controls the New York Times... Thailand’s fugitive former prime minister http://www.nytimes.c...sia/27thai.html You are very welcome to join the rest of the world wherein such nonsensical conspiracies are relegated to the Jokes Forum. . I have experienced this with a lot of Thaksin haters. They are so intent on it, they save whatever the Opposition has fed them, and regurgitate it at every opportunity. In this case using foreign media, the author thinks it better supports their indoctrination-by-Opposition. This surfaces an entirely different subject matter, that being the copying and paraphrasing of local media by the foreign press. I experienced this significantly on a recent trip to Europe. When discussing Thai politics with discerning European contacts, it was like talking to the Thai Opposition. All that aside, the repetitive and often humorously misplaced use of the term in the interest of saying it as often as possible, is political agenda. See my Post #16 above for support of this notion. No point in repeating myself. Edited February 22, 2012 by CalgaryII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 He can jaunt around all he wants, if he comes back he will likely be Bunburried in the end. No matter what deals he thinks he's made. He and his motivations are feared and distrusted far beyond the bounds of publicly stated words. I do not understand your use of the word Bunburry. As I understand it, it means to avoid, to get out of doing something boring by raising a prior engagement/appointment. And yes, I do understand the origins of it being in that Oscar Wilde piece. Honest query, and I suspect I am not alone in not understanding. Hadn't seen or heard the expression in eons, but then I'm not very literary.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryII Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 He can jaunt around all he wants, if he comes back he will likely be Bunburried in the end. No matter what deals he thinks he's made. He and his motivations are feared and distrusted far beyond the bounds of publicly stated words. "His motivations are feared and distrusted? By whom, other than his political enemies who are scared shitless of him. Certainly not the Thai electorate who voted last time around. They did so with everything fully declared, and after several years of the Opposition attempting to denigrate and smear him. As I have mentioned before, the Thai electorate impresses the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 There is the 'fugitive' thing again. The Opposition seems to think that repetition best serves their agenda. Who am I to argue. Use of this term is agenda, pure and simple. Can we put this continued malarkey where it belongs.... in the trash bin. In your world, the opposition controls Reuters... Fugitive ex-PM Thaksin http://www.msnbc.msn...t/#.T0Rx_1buUbQ In your world, the opposition controls Bloomberg News... Sister of Fugitive Ex-Premier Thaksin http://www.bloomberg...tion-party.html In your world, the opposition controls TIME magazine... Will Thailand's Most Famous Fugitive Get His Passport Back? http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz1n5CU5wTk In your world, the opposition controls AFP... Fugitive ex-leader Thaksin http://www.google.co...2833ba7fb93.2f1 In your world, the opposition controls BBC... fugitive ex-leader Thaksin Shinawatra http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-15831430 In your world, the opposition controls the New York Times... Thailand’s fugitive former prime minister http://www.nytimes.c...sia/27thai.html You are very welcome to join the rest of the world wherein such nonsensical conspiracies are relegated to the Jokes Forum. . I have experienced this with a lot of Thaksin haters. They are so intent on it, they save whatever the Opposition has fed them, and regurgitate it at every opportunity. In this case using foreign media, the author thinks it better supports their indoctrination-by-Opposition. This surfaces an entirely different subject matter, that being the copying and paraphrasing of local media by the foreign press. I experienced this significantly on a recent trip to Europe. When discussing Thai politics with discerning European contacts, it was like talking to the Thai Opposition. All that aside, the repetitive and often humorously misplaced use of the term in the interest of saying it as often as possible, is political agenda. See my Post #16 above for support of this notion. No point in repeating myself. The opposition party in Thailand controls the world media, otherwise they would not use the word fugitive to describe a fugitive. Thanks for your input. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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