New To Chiang Mai

[richard10365]

I dont mean to be a party pooper but a Masters in Thailand is not worth a Masters in the west and may not be recognized. Sorry to add a spoonful of realism - im probably going to be flamed but its the truth - doctors and nurses cannot practice in the west without additional exams ec. Apart from that Chiang Mai is great and welcome! (sorry)

yeah seriously...unless your marks are shit and you can't get into a master program in Canada. It seems like a really stupid idea to waste your time doing it here. Not that i have anything against coming and living here or doing schooling here. But if your getting your masters i assume it's cause you take pride in that kind of thing and want to use it to get a higher paying job. Canada has some of the best masters programs in the world...that are recognized around the world. a thai masters isn't going to be recognized anywhere. Students from thailand/sing/vietnam etc don't go to canada to do their masters because it's to hard to get in.....so they settle for an easy entrance to the program...but also a usless degree anywhere outside of SE Asia

Definition of IGNORANT (From the Merriam-Webster dictionary)

1. a: destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also: lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics>

b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

2: unaware, uninformed

— ig·no·rant·lyadverb

— ig·no·rant·nessnoun

Edited February 28, 2012 by richard10365

[tolstoy]

"Payap's music program is one of the best in Asia."

Even though it is a positive statement it shows the same level of ignorance that other posters demonstrate talking about the negative perspective of a Thai graduate degree.

"As was mentioned earlier, the degree you earn at Payap is recognized all over the world. Even if you went to Harvard with a masters degree from Payap, you would still be able to study for your PhD as long as you met their other entry requirements."

That is a pretty bold and ereonous statement. Thai Masters are not typically recognized for entry into PhD programs. The BA/BS is. I know of many Thais who had Masters from Thai universities including Chula who have had to redo their Masters when studying in the US and Australia.

However, that doesn't mean that it is a worthless degree as others have said. If someone is staying in Thailand, they will have many options.

A music degree is different and isn't the same as other academic fields. I think that if the OP is happy with the program no one should discourage of badmouth the program unless they have actually completed it.

My only advice when entering any advanced field of academia is to actually contact jobs and ask them if they would accept it or which place/degree they actually prefer.

[richard10365]

"Payap's music program is one of the best in Asia."

Even though it is a positive statement it shows the same level of ignorance that other posters demonstrate talking about the negative perspective of a Thai graduate degree.

"As was mentioned earlier, the degree you earn at Payap is recognized all over the world. Even if you went to Harvard with a masters degree from Payap, you would still be able to study for your PhD as long as you met their other entry requirements."

That is a pretty bold and ereonous statement. Thai Masters are not typically recognized for entry into PhD programs. The BA/BS is. I know of many Thais who had Masters from Thai universities including Chula who have had to redo their Masters when studying in the US and Australia.

However, that doesn't mean that it is a worthless degree as others have said. If someone is staying in Thailand, they will have many options.

A music degree is different and isn't the same as other academic fields. I think that if the OP is happy with the program no one should discourage of badmouth the program unless they have actually completed it.

My only advice when entering any advanced field of academia is to actually contact jobs and ask them if they would accept it or which place/degree they actually prefer.

The question of Payap degrees being recognized by other universities around the world is a very popular question. In fact, it comes up so much that I auctually emailed Harvard. Harvard said as long as the institution that issued the degree is accredited by the government body that regulates education in that country that the university is located, and as long as the student met all of the other requirements to enter a particular faculty at Harvard, then they would honor the degree as the basic entry educational requirements. Cambridge and UCLA told me the same thing.

I cannot dispute what you say about other people having to take their entire masters degree over in other countries in order to study at a higher level. I personally don't know anyone who had to do that; however, I have heard of some students having to take additional courses prior to starting a program.

I do agree saying Payap is one of the best schools in Asia is a bold thing to say. You're right. There are a lot of other good schools as well. But this is the one I know and I think it's very impressive.

[Tywais]

Flame removed. Keep it civil guys.

I believe richard10365 has presented the information quite nicely. I also have students who had no problems getting excepted into programs overseas. It's very possible that some courses may have to be retaken but I've not heard of an entire MSc program needed to be redone. I do have to sign off on their language skill documents which has an option of 'further study needed' and sometimes help them with TOEFL or similar when needed. I've had one student recently who went directly from the BS program to the PhD program and studied here and overseas obtaining a PhD in both schools.

[philliphn]

I think that you are making a serious mistake. Your Thai university degree will not have much value in the West. One day you will realize that you need to make a living. In Thailand you will not make much of a living. In the future you may have to support a wife, and children. You are unlikely to do this well with a Thai University degree. Even with a Thai University Degree you will likely find that you have little, and likely no employment options in Thailand, or else where. You will then need to get a Western University Degree. This will double your effort, and costs. I have a great fondness for Thailand. But I have made my money, and would be considered wealthy, by American standards. You sonny are on the make. Meaning you have not made it yet. Take a course of action that will maximize your chances in what is now a highly competitive world. Don't get caught up with some romantic adventourous notion about Thailand. Look at things from an objective realistic perpective!

[FiscalFizz]

I think that you are making a serious mistake. Your Thai university degree will not have much value in the West. One day you will realize that you need to make a living. In Thailand you will not make much of a living. In the future you may have to support a wife, and children. You are unlikely to do this well with a Thai University degree. Even with a Thai University Degree you will likely find that you have little, and likely no employment options in Thailand, or else where. You will then need to get a Western University Degree. This will double your effort, and costs. I have a great fondness for Thailand. But I have made my money, and would be considered wealthy, by American standards. You sonny are on the make. Meaning you have not made it yet. Take a course of action that will maximize your chances in what is now a highly competitive world. Don't get caught up with some romantic adventourous notion about Thailand. Look at things from an objective realistic perpective!

This man is smart. Listen to him. I have a Bachelors in business from a good university.here in the states. If i started my own.business, i would hire someone with a degree from.a local community.college here before I would hire anyone with some Thai degree. I dont care if it is an MBA. "But, but...Mr. employer, its the.best University in Thailand! .." LOL

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[BlackArtemis]

I think that you are making a serious mistake. Your Thai university degree will not have much value in the West. One day you will realize that you need to make a living. In Thailand you will not make much of a living. In the future you may have to support a wife, and children. You are unlikely to do this well with a Thai University degree. Even with a Thai University Degree you will likely find that you have little, and likely no employment options in Thailand, or else where. You will then need to get a Western University Degree. This will double your effort, and costs. I have a great fondness for Thailand. But I have made my money, and would be considered wealthy, by American standards. You sonny are on the make. Meaning you have not made it yet. Take a course of action that will maximize your chances in what is now a highly competitive world. Don't get caught up with some romantic adventourous notion about Thailand. Look at things from an objective realistic perpective!

This man is smart. Listen to him. I have a Bachelors in business from a good university.here in the states. If i started my own.business, i would hire someone with a degree from.a local community.college here before I would hire anyone with some Thai degree. I dont care if it is an MBA. "But, but...Mr. employer, its the.best University in Thailand! .." LOL

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Sadly this attitude is prevalent. I know for a fact that many science programs at Mahidol are rated much higher than some known schools in the states. There are reasons why some big name schools partner with these schools in fields like ecology and microbiology. But you are going to run into people who believe otherwise.

I came here with a degree in psych and bit the bullet and moved back to the US to get my teaching degree. I even thought about doing my MSc at Mahidol, but people are right and it's looked down upon even if it doesn't deserve to be.

But it is your life and most places don't care about your degree once you have adequate experience under your belt.

[Loaded]

Wanna show me where to go for those snakeheads

Snakehead, or hua gnu, is Thai slang for dirty old men. You can find them all around the Loi Kro road area. They can be be distinguished from other farang species by their white hair (if they have any), fat bellies, cheap TESCO Lotus clothes, tattoos, ignorant opinions that are never wrong and a dark, usually Issan, old retired sex worker they met on the Internet or when she was freelancing in an Internet shop.. It's very easy to hook this species but I have absolutely no idea why anyone would want to.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Loaded

[richard10365]

I think for Thai people, a degree from the west has more of an impact on a CV that's filled out for a Thai employer than it would if it was given to a western employer. Thai people put great importance on Western educations.

For foreigners, the choice of school will have some bearing, but it is not the most important part of a CV. If an applicant pins all their hopes for their CV on their choice of school then I probably wouldn't hire them either. A well structured CV that is written specifically for the job that the applicant is applying for is more important than where the applicant studied. Then, once the CV gets the applicant the interview, how they present themselves to their potential employer is what gets them the job.

In the case of musicians, while the choice of school is important, I would think their musical ability is more important. Of course, this would depend on the job they are applying for. If they are going to teach, they would need to demonstrate more than just their ability to play.

Either way, the world is changing and there is a pardigm shift in how this part of the world is thought of. The coming Asean Economic Community (AEC) has caused most people to rethink how they do business in Asia and how to stay competitive. This includes education as well. While for some this may sound like a new idea, many are already aware of this and preparing for the shift. Asian work and educational experience does add value to any CV.

[scorecard]

I think that you are making a serious mistake. Your Thai university degree will not have much value in the West. One day you will realize that you need to make a living. In Thailand you will not make much of a living. In the future you may have to support a wife, and children. You are unlikely to do this well with a Thai University degree. Even with a Thai University Degree you will likely find that you have little, and likely no employment options in Thailand, or else where. You will then need to get a Western University Degree. This will double your effort, and costs. I have a great fondness for Thailand. But I have made my money, and would be considered wealthy, by American standards. You sonny are on the make. Meaning you have not made it yet. Take a course of action that will maximize your chances in what is now a highly competitive world. Don't get caught up with some romantic adventourous notion about Thailand. Look at things from an objective realistic perpective!

This man is smart. Listen to him. I have a Bachelors in business from a good university.here in the states. If i started my own.business, i would hire someone with a degree from.a local community.college here before I would hire anyone with some Thai degree. I dont care if it is an MBA. "But, but...Mr. employer, its the.best University in Thailand! .." LOL

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You say: ' If i started my own.business, i would hire someone with a degree from.a local community.college here before I would hire anyone with some Thai degree. I dont care if it is an MBA. '

That's a very blanket statement. What are your specific reasons for making such a blanket statement? Please share.

[scorecard]

The information shared by the original OP seem to have been forgotten.

He seems to be a young man with his head screwed on the right way to me. He's already developed options and resources at quite a young age and he's clearly adventurous, and I strongly admire him for all of these points.

He now wants to study music, specifically music. Good for him, he's got direction. My guess is that he has a love of music and he wants to explore it to a deeper level. Why else would he want to study this subject. Good on him, again I admire him.

Let's be honest, many people study, for example only, accounting, because they are the designated person in the family to be the accountant when mum retires, etc., but in fact have no real interest in accounting and would like to study something quite different.

A decision to study music is surely a different picture, coming from a specific desire, an interest, a love of the subject , a deep interest in an art form, etc Way way different to my accounting example above.

Is that a good choice for, at a later point in life, to support a wife and kids? Is that a valid question here? I think not? Given his previous posts I would take a bet he's got lots of plan B options for when needed.

Go for it my friend, and the best of luck with your studies and your future, in whatever direction.

[scorecard]

Again, in many posts, we see blanket negative statements about Thai universities and I suspect these comments are mostly from people who have no real / no specific insights into this matter.

Let's be up front - there is no doubt whatever that Thailand (and the same in many many countries across the world) has good quality universities and quite a few poor quality universities.

As just one offshore example, the USA has the same sliding scale, and here are many many countries which fit this picture.

A different example, a few years back I attended an invited international business case competition organized by a very 'prestigious' USA University.

Thirty 'prestigious' universities from across the world were invited, second place went to a university from Brazil and they well deserved it. (First place went to a business school from Shanghai, China.)

Leading / coaching the second place team was an impressive Brazilian lady. In one conversation (started by an American professor, who was lamenting the fact that the USA has many poor quality unis and lamenting the overall decline of standards across all US universities), she mentioned the same points, she shared that Brazil has excellent unis and also has very very poor quality unis.

I am a committee member for Ph.D. studies in two so called better Thai universities.

Recently we arranged a shared committee with the National University of Singapore for one candidate (mostly done by Skype), and in fact it was NUS who suggested this arrangement and I can assure you that NUS doesn't rush into any 'arrangements' without checking the 'credibility' of such an arrangement.

Another example, about two years back one of our international MBA students (after she completed the second half of her MBA here and graduated here) decided to stay for the first half of her Ph.D. studies then transfer back to her original (prestigious) university in France to complete her Ph.D. Her university in France readily agreed to the whole arrangement..

A different point, entry to most Ph.D. programs world wide, is based more on interviews with the director of Ph.D. programs plus the committee members for that institute, with lesser emphasis on where the Masters degree was achieved and lesser emphasis on GPA.

What are the director / the committee members looking for in the interview? Mostly they want to be assured, through extended, often tricky backwards and forwards discussion (interview), that the candidate has deeper than 'normal' insight into the subject area and has developed some further theories etc., on that subject which appear to have merit. And not looking for assurance that the candidate can remember the bullet points in the text book.

Edited February 29, 2012 by scorecard

[scorecard]

Again, in many posts, we see blanket negative statements about Thai universities and I suspect these comments are mostly from people who have no real / no specific insights into this matter.

Let's be up front - there is no doubt whatever that Thailand (and the same in many many countries across the world) has good quality universities and quite a few poor quality universities.

As just one offshore example, the USA has the same sliding scale, and here are many many countries which fit this picture.

A different example, a few years back I attended an invited international business case competition organized by a very 'prestigious' USA University.

Thirty 'prestigious' universities from across the world were invited, second place went to a university from Brazil and they well deserved it. (First place went to a business school from Shanghai, China.)

Leading / coaching the second place team was an impressive Brazilian lady. In one conversation (started by an American professor, who was lamenting the fact that the USA has many poor quality unis and lamenting the overall decline of standards across all US universities), she mentioned the same points, she shared that Brazil has excellent unis and also has very very poor quality unis.

I am a committee member for Ph.D. studies in two so called better Thai universities.

Recently we arranged a shared committee with the National University of Singapore for one candidate (mostly done by Skype), and in fact it was NUS who suggested this arrangement and I can assure you that NUS doesn't rush into any 'arrangements' without checking the 'credibility' of such an arrangement.

Another example, about two years back one of our international MBA students (after she completed the second half of her MBA here and graduated here) decided to stay for the first half of her Ph.D. studies then transfer back to her original (prestigious) university in France to complete her Ph.D. Her university in France readily agreed to the whole arrangement..

A different point, entry to most Ph.D. programs world wide, is based more on interviews with the director of Ph.D. programs plus the committee members for that institute, with lesser emphasis on where the Masters degree was achieved and lesser emphasis on GPA.

What are the director / the committee members looking for in the interview? Mostly they want to be assured, through extended, often tricky backwards and forwards discussion (interview), that the candidate has deeper than 'normal' insight into the subject area and has developed some further theories etc., on that subject which appear to have merit. And not looking for assurance that the candidate can remember the bullet points in the text book.

Plus another important point. All universities, in the assessment of candidate steps, actively make a prediction of whether the Ph.D. candidate appears to have the drive to see it through. Gaining a Ph.D. is hard work, candidates need a lot of tenacity to see it through, to accept all the criticism deliberately thrown at them, there is a big drop out rate. I say again, remembering the bullet points in the text book / GPA is not high at all in the assessment factors.

Edited February 29, 2012 by scorecard

[elektrified]

A lot of hotties study at Payap. Don't know how approachable they are, but passing through the campus there is always a lot of eye candy around.

Indeed there are. And I am assuming you mean farang hotties.

[hellodolly]

The information shared by the original OP seem to have been forgotten.

He seems to be a young man with his head screwed on the right way to me. He's already developed options and resources at quite a young age and he's clearly adventurous, and I strongly admire him for all of these points.

He now wants to study music, specifically music. Good for him, he's got direction. My guess is that he has a love of music and he wants to explore it to a deeper level. Why else would he want to study this subject. Good on him, again I admire him.

Let's be honest, many people study, for example only, accounting, because they are the designated person in the family to be the accountant when mum retires, etc., but in fact have no real interest in accounting and would like to study something quite different.

A decision to study music is surely a different picture, coming from a specific desire, an interest, a love of the subject , a deep interest in an art form, etc Way way different to my accounting example above.

Is that a good choice for, at a later point in life, to support a wife and kids? Is that a valid question here? I think not? Given his previous posts I would take a bet he's got lots of plan B options for when needed.

Go for it my friend, and the best of luck with your studies and your future, in whatever direction.

Well put.

A lot of the posters here think only of money. If music is his love and he likes Thailand and has no more ties in Canada go for it. If he has the talent he will have no trouble locating work in any place he chooses to go.

[hellodolly]

A lot of hotties study at Payap. Don't know how approachable they are, but passing through the campus there is always a lot of eye candy around.

Indeed there are. And I am assuming you mean farang hotties.

Did you google that?

Edited February 29, 2012 by hellodolly

[binjalin]

Frankly it's a 'no brainer' Payap is not even in the top 2000 Unis in the world - but lets not let facts spoil the ' Thai degrees are wonderful' brigade. They are simply not up to the cut and there is a lot of 'under the table' (gasp!) shinanigans, not referring to Payap particularly bless 'em but I have heard of tons of students who have dissertations written and 'help' with their degrees. Apart from that they just arn't generally recognized - and a fact is a fact.

ps I have two masters from British Unis and know of many nurses in England who qualified as Doctors abroad and, simply, were not up to the standard required. Which is why the best doctors here are western trained and its reallr a requirement when they want jobs at the best hospitals here in Thailand - in fact they BOAST about their training in the west - they dont say ' wow i trained at such-and-such Thai Uni'. With respect it's follyq to try and argue they are treated the same - and some maybe very good.

Edited March 3, 2012 by binjalin

[NinjaNick]

My my my quite the topic I have started I see...

Did anybody fail to notice my topic of study? I'm a musicologist ( ethno musicologist) My research will focus on the music of southeast asia. Work needs to be done in this part of the world my friends! someone has to document and research it right? SOO.... I am basing my operation out of chiang mai.

@limegreenpatato... trust me.. my marks are not S**t. I was accepted to 7 different schools across canada... but I don't want to study there. Doesn't interest me in the slightest. Please all.. forgive me for sounding arrogant... it is not my intent at all. I'm just driven and motivated. My financial situation is fine (if it wasn't i wouldn't be on my way to Thailand... all I have to say) I do also have my pilots license. Again... something more to fall back on.

The point is this... this planet has so many scientists, business men, soldiers, etc. but not enough musicians. When you're down or in despair.. when your happy and joyful... who is it that you turn to??? Its us musicians! not the businessmen or the scientists... we help this world in so many ways and unfortunately... the majority of us are so underpaid. but that's ok! we do it because we love it. I have a job to do in this part of the world and I'm going to see it through. I don't care about recognition or money at this time. I'm young and have many resources at hand. In the future if need be... I will continue my education in the west... but at the moment i'm fine You all have your story to tell and I'll have mine. Your advise so far is wonderful, I have read each comment over and over, both negative and positive... Either way, i have been interviewed and accepted into the program. I'm on my way back to Thailand. I have been saving since i was 8. And my parents are proud of me. What more could I ask for?

keep the comments coming!! hope to see some of you soon

Nick C

[NinjaNick]

and @scorecard... thank you very much. You nailed it. i certainly do have a plan b, c and even d. but music is my love. Thanks for your support!! money isn't everything... but it is important.

[KimoMax]

20 sounds Very Young to be taking a masters Degree.

Working on a BA would be more likely at age 20.

Canada/US graduate high School at 17-18. Start College/University at 18.

4 years to Graduate with BA = Age 22

Start on Masters at age 22+.

Music Education is a Speciatly to Specificaly TEACH Music.

I find it kind of hard to fathom a Jazz Piano Player as an ethnic musician. But hey, anything is possible.

Hope it all works out for the OP.

Edited March 5, 2012 by KimoMax

[NinjaNick]

I started when i was 16. i fast tracked through high school...

[thaimiller]

and @scorecard... thank you very much. You nailed it. i certainly do have a plan b, c and even d. but music is my love. Thanks for your support!! money isn't everything... but it is important.

Your right, money cant buy you happiness but it can buy beer and go-go dancers which is pretty close Good luck with everything and hope all goes well.

[NinjaNick]

mmm I love beer one thing i will miss about Canada... all the variety. I'm sittin here enjoying a nice brew as we speak