Thailand'S Lost Its Mojo?

[folium]

I thought Myanmar was a 30 day entry only? is that not the case?

I checked into it if you want to live there long term bring your money and be prepared to live under Shari law There last time was there they were talking about making it illegal for a man and wife to hold hands,.

Sharia Law in a country that has at most 10% Muslim population, a track record of Buddhist-Muslim strife and actively persecutes Rohingya muslims from Rakhine state (causing them to try and flee to Thailand, unless the RTN shoves them back out to sea without a motor)??

I think not.

Not sure where the no PDA comment comes from but PDA is hardly popular in Thailand anyway. What is more likely is that the Myanmar government is very keen to avoid the whole sexpat scene and all that goes with it.

[londoedan]

Let's not get into a Colonialism argument, but

Sorry, but that reads a lot like: "I'm not a racist but . . . . . . "

I'd recommened you (re)read Burmese Days or even Finding George Orwell in Burma.

[JSixpack]

Now with change apparently underway it is fascinating to witness change finally happening.

But how does YOUR fascination in vicariously witnessing change in Burma (a NEW reason) translate to Thailand's having lost ITS mojo? Clearly it's merely your lost mojo that you've blamed on Thailand.

If you love Burma, why don't you just start a thread about it somewhere and go to it.

Many Burmese mention Thailand as how they do not wish to see their country develop in terms of its tourism. Will Myanmar end up with its own versions of Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui? Possibly but perhaps after 50 years there may be sufficient desire to get it right now they finally have the chance.

That's just a display of ignorance, elitism ("meet the new boss / same as the old boss), and bias. It reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of what freedom means--which you applaud, of course, perhaps having had a nanny state education. Your "survey" is hardly scientific or valid. A FEW Burmese mentioned that, no doubt after you prompted them (how many Burmese have visited those resorts?), but the vast majority would LOVE to work in Pattaya, Phuket, and Koh Samui and make the wages that thousands of Thai employees and workers make there, and they'd jump at that opportunity--which YOU would deny them so that you can keep your mojo. Similarly the Thais who work in those resorts are happy to be doing so. Of course they'd prefer to be living in a village somewhere, but the villages offer few economic opportunities. People vote with their feet. I've had few jobs myself that I really liked--but I'm glad I could have them.

Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui are all wonderful places (tho no place is perfect of course), but anyway to imply that these resort areas, a geographically insignificant part of Thailand making economic contributions far out of proportion to their sizes, are typical Thailand is totally ridiculous. You can move just 1 km outside Pattaya and it's like Pattaya doesn't exist at all. I once met a Thai office lady who'd worked in Pattaya for 10 years and didn't know what a go-go bar is and had hardly noticed the beer bars on Beach Rd.

I don't think Thailand of 30 years ago had that same sense of excitement that Burma does now, so it's not clear why it had a mojo then whereas Burma only got it after a total change from fascism. So it's party time in Burma now among your Burmese friends who want to exercise their own brand of authoritarian control. So? Assuredly if Burma is really free it will become a capitalistic country and people will move into suburbs and out of their charming huts that make you feel so good to see.

Need to buzz off with this moralistic twaddle that leads to such gross exaggerations. I agree w/ a poster above that you're just trolling.

Edited March 1, 2012 by JSixpack

[folium]

I'll accept that Folium, yes there is a kind of magic in Mynamar, an old country charm if you like. When you like behind the charm though all you can see is an unremitting tragedy. India was the Jewel in the British crown, but Burma was loved like no other. Let's not get into a Colonialism argument, but just look at the reality of Burma 1948. It probably had the best Civil Service per head of the population of any country in Asia, it had relative stability, unbelievable natural resources, it had major companies such as Burmah Oil, the Anglo-Burma Tin Mining company, it has one of the largest shipping fleets in the world, alongside an educated middle class with outstanding multi-lingual abilities and a tremendous ethnic mix. It was a stunning country at the date of Independence, and what happened after was a human catastrophe. So yes, go look and admire the fading architecture, the ramshackle roads, the decrepit vehicles and down trodden people who will flash you a smile and treat you kindly. Go see the Burma Banks and go up to the mountain ranges, the stunning temples etc you get the idea. But look at it with sadness for what might have been. I wouldn't swap the post-war history of Thailand as compared to Burma. On your other point about the possible effects of the country opening up and suffering some negative consequences as a result, I agree. There will be negative consequences for some, There will be a mad dash to industrialization, to build massive sea ports, to build a tourist infrastructure etc. That is the price of progress, of freedom, of people having the choice and ability to improve their lives. I think we would all like a Time Machine so that we can go back and sample places of yore, but yore is where they will stay......welcome to the future!! edited for clarity

I think you are being a little generous in your descriptions of colonial Burma.

The country was an economic success in terms of oil, rice, teak and gem production (and that was the overriding function of British colonies), but at the expense of the native Burmese and was largely driven by Indian migrant labour and the Anglo-Burmese. These two groups formed the backbone of British Burma and those who survived the Japanese occupation either fled at independence or were driven out in the 1950's and finally deported Idi Amin style in 1962.

Read Orwell'sBurmese Days for a good insight into British Burma.

Another fantastic read is The River of Lost Footsteps by Thant Myint-U (grandson of U Thant, the UN Secretary General).

The over-reliance on Indian and Anglo-Burmese (due to a mistrust of the Burmese due to their continued resistance to British occupation) sections of the population became a disaster for Burma as once they had either been deported or sacked the country lacked trained, experienced people to run the place. Brtiain' abolition of the monarchy when it took over Upper Burma also ultimately set the scene for military domination as it created a power vacuum that was unltimately filled by the generals.

Anyway, enough history lessons. Myanmar has been a tragedy for 50 years but is now tasting much of what it has been denied for so long. To go back to your earlier reference, it is like the Ossis (East Germans) in 1989 emptying every shop within 100kms of the border of bananas as most had never seen let alone tasted one, and while they would have preferred to buy a VW at least they could afford to buy a banana to take home to show to their kids. 1989/1990 was an exciting time to be in Germany. A similar sensation can be experienced in Myanmar today.

[StreetCowboy]

I wonder if Burma will be like East Germany, or like Yugoslavia?

Exciting times indeed. I'm sure my children may go there on holiday, one day. Perhaps there may be jobs there for them, or for their children.

May the rest of us live in peaceful times for the time being...

SC

[folium]

Now with change apparently underway it is fascinating to witness change finally happening.

But how does YOUR fascination in vicariously witnessing change in Burma (a NEW reason) translate to Thailand's having lost ITS mojo? Clearly it's merely your lost mojo that you've blamed on Thailand.

If you love Burma, why don't you just start a thread about it somewhere and go to it.

Many Burmese mention Thailand as how they do not wish to see their country develop in terms of its tourism. Will Myanmar end up with its own versions of Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui? Possibly but perhaps after 50 years there may be sufficient desire to get it right now they finally have the chance.

That's just a display of ignorance, elitism ("meet the new boss / same as the old boss), and bias. It reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of what freedom means--which you applaud, of course, perhaps having had a nanny state education. Your "survey" is hardly scientific or valid. A FEW Burmese mentioned that, no doubt after you prompted them (how many Burmese have visited those resorts?), but the vast majority would LOVE to work in Pattaya, Phuket, and Koh Samui and make the wages that thousands of Thai employees and workers make there, and they'd jump at that opportunity--which YOU would deny them so that you can keep your mojo. Similarly the Thais who work in those resorts are happy to be doing so. Of course they'd prefer to be living in a village somewhere, but the villages offer few economic opportunities. People vote with their feet. I've had few jobs myself that I really liked--but I'm glad I could have them.

Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui are all wonderful places (tho no place is perfect of course), but anyway to imply that these resort areas, a geographically insignificant part of Thailand making economic contributions far out of proportion to their sizes, are typical Thailand is totally ridiculous. You can move just 1 km outside Pattaya and it's like Pattaya doesn't exist at all. I once met a Thai office lady who'd worked in Pattaya for 10 years and didn't know what a go-go bar is and had hardly noticed the beer bars on Beach Rd.

I don't think Thailand of 30 years ago had that same sense of excitement that Burma does now, so it's not clear why it had a mojo then whereas Burma only got it after a total change from fascism. So it's party time in Burma now among your Burmese friends who want to exercise their own brand of authoritarian control. So? Assuredly if Burma is really free it will become a capitalistic country and people will move into suburbs and out of their charming huts that make you feel so good to see.

Need to buzz off with this moralistic twaddle that leads to such gross exaggerations. I agree w/ a poster above that you're just trolling.

As charming as ever. Another series of arrogant assumptions this time on my notion of freedom, form of education and intentions of my Burmese friends, and the old one of being a fan of viewing empoverished peasant farmers. Fascinating stuff but again completely false.

You seem to regard anyone who has the temerity to express an opinion that differs from yours as "trolling".

The word mojo from my perspective relates to the "appeal" of a place. IMHO (and I certainly don't expect, nor would wish, everyone to agree with my opinions) I feel that Thailand from a foreigners point of view has lost a chunk of its appeal in the last 30 years. Myanmar, despite the horrors of the past, is in a very interesting phase of its history, and yes it will be a tragedy if it becomes a rerun of Yugoslavia rather than a reintegrated East Germany. Hopefully having had ethnic/civil conflicts for almost 70 years these can now be resolved as part of the rebuilding of the country.

[folium]

Let's not get into a Colonialism argument, but

Sorry, but that reads a lot like: "I'm not a racist but . . . . . . "

I'd recommened you (re)read Burmese Days or even Finding George Orwell in Burma.

I'd second the tip re Finding George Orwell, a brilliant understated glimpse of Myanmar and the links between Orwell's day and today are superbly done.

[JSixpack]

As charming as ever. Another series of arrogant assumptions this time on my notion of freedom, form of education and intentions of my Burmese friends, and the old one of being a fan of viewing empoverished peasant farmers. Fascinating stuff but again completely false.

You seem to regard anyone who has the temerity to express an opinion that differs from yours as "trolling".

The word mojo from my perspective relates to the "appeal" of a place. IMHO (and I certainly don't expect, nor would wish, everyone to agree with my opinions) I feel that Thailand from a foreigners point of view has lost a chunk of its appeal in the last 30 years. Myanmar, despite the horrors of the past, is in a very interesting phase of its history, and yes it will be a tragedy if it becomes a rerun of Yugoslavia rather than a reintegrated East Germany. Hopefully having had ethnic/civil conflicts for almost 70 years these can now be resolved as part of the rebuilding of the country.

It's not my purpose be charming and reinforce various fantasies. I'm following your statements to their logical conclusions.

I'm not alone in the opinion that you're just trolling. Condemning an entire country as having "lost its mojo" because you don't like it that some parts of Thailand have experienced some economic development. Just a silly troll, really. We see quite a lot of those here.

"Appeal" meaning how YOU feel about a place--but you are unable to say why MOST of Thailand w/ its vast rural areas and small towns has changed SO dramatically that the WHOLE country has caused you to lose your mojo. Poor thing. And it's just lying to say that Thailand has lost its appeal for foreigners. On the contrary, more foreigners visit than ever before. Tourism has been growing at roughly 6% per year on average. And the resorts that YOU hate take up a big chunk of that tourism. The expansion of Pattaya has been phenomenal. Of course there's some small minority yourself who don't like THE WHOLE COUNTRY because a baht bus driver treated them rudely or they saw an old fat farang w/ a gorgeous young lady. But the numbers speak.

IF Burma is truly free, then it will follow the same course as Thailand because there is a great demand in the same areas, which for a while Burma can supply at lower cost. Cambodia is showing the way. But you and your Burmese don't want true freedom--that's what you said. Still, I think there will be quite a lot, because the inevitable corruption will allow people to work around "elitists" such as yourself & Burmese friends.

Calling my logical conclusions and points "assumptions" and lying about the tourist figures isn't answering them or refuting them. After all, it's all about your very important feelings. And we just can't make the Thai government to move people out of their homogenous homes in the new 'burbs and put people back into shacks and huts so you can feel comfortable and superior again. I think most reading this discussion will realize that. But keep enjoying yourself. When are you going back to Burma and feeling happy again? Is there much internet there?

[FiscalFizz]

<deleted> is this suppose to mean. I get the "worlds smallest violine" concept behind this...... but the OP raises valid points. Why be an asshol_e... you are not even a good or funny asshol_e.... just a lame asshol_e..

[FiscalFizz]

Disagree with the original poster- Bloomberg just had an article pointing out Thailand manufacturing/industry is leading the world in several areas- e.g. Thailand overtook the US to be the biggest producer of pick up trucks this year and it is also global leader in producing/exporting agricultural products. Thailand is also ranked this year as the most attractive emerging market for invesmtent (after China) by Goldman Sachs if i recall.

As to Thailand's neighbours- Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar- these are all WAY more corrupt,ineffiencient and standard of living is way lower for expats if you are looking for modern conveniences, stable elecricity and water supply, decent hospitals etc

I am from the Greater Detroit area, and I can tell you that making a lot of trucks and automobiles doesn't mean shit..... I.E. see Detroit....

[folium]

As charming as ever. Another series of arrogant assumptions this time on my notion of freedom, form of education and intentions of my Burmese friends, and the old one of being a fan of viewing empoverished peasant farmers. Fascinating stuff but again completely false.

You seem to regard anyone who has the temerity to express an opinion that differs from yours as "trolling".

The word mojo from my perspective relates to the "appeal" of a place. IMHO (and I certainly don't expect, nor would wish, everyone to agree with my opinions) I feel that Thailand from a foreigners point of view has lost a chunk of its appeal in the last 30 years. Myanmar, despite the horrors of the past, is in a very interesting phase of its history, and yes it will be a tragedy if it becomes a rerun of Yugoslavia rather than a reintegrated East Germany. Hopefully having had ethnic/civil conflicts for almost 70 years these can now be resolved as part of the rebuilding of the country.

It's not my purpose be charming and reinforce various fantasies. I'm following your statements to their logical conclusions.

I'm not alone in the opinion that you're just trolling. Condemning an entire country as having "lost its mojo" because you don't like it that some parts of Thailand have experienced some economic development. Just a silly troll, really. We see quite a lot of those here.

"Appeal" meaning how YOU feel about a place--but you are unable to say why MOST of Thailand w/ its vast rural areas and small towns has changed SO dramatically that the WHOLE country has caused you to lose your mojo. Poor thing. And it's just lying to say that Thailand has lost its appeal for foreigners. On the contrary, more foreigners visit than ever before. Tourism has been growing at roughly 6% per year on average. And the resorts that YOU hate take up a big chunk of that tourism. The expansion of Pattaya has been phenomenal. Of course there's some small minority yourself who don't like THE WHOLE COUNTRY because a baht bus driver treated them rudely or they saw an old fat farang w/ a gorgeous young lady. But the numbers speak.

IF Burma is truly free, then it will follow the same course as Thailand because there is a great demand in the same areas, which for a while Burma can supply at lower cost. Cambodia is showing the way. But you and your Burmese don't want true freedom--that's what you said. Still, I think there will be quite a lot, because the inevitable corruption will allow people to work around "elitists" such as yourself & Burmese friends.

Calling my logical conclusions and points "assumptions" and lying about the tourist figures isn't answering them or refuting them. After all, it's all about your very important feelings. And we just can't make the Thai government to move people out of their homogenous homes in the new 'burbs and put people back into shacks and huts so you can feel comfortable and superior again. I think most reading this discussion will realize that. But keep enjoying yourself. When are you going back to Burma and feeling happy again? Is there much internet there?

More arrogant, unsubstantiated assumptions about what I think, and how I operate etc. Whatever....

Bottom line is that you believe that Thailand has lost none of its appeal in the last 30 years and the tourist hubs of Pattya, Phuket & Koh Samui will act as role models for tourist development for the rest of the region.

Some people will agree with you, others may not. That's what makes life interesting.

[bonobo]

I have been on the road lately to Manila, KL, Ho Chi Minh, and Phnom Penh as well as smaller places in the countryside. And yes, there are seeming advantages to each over Bangkok/Thailand. KL is cleaner and less crowded, Manila more international, and both have far mroe English-speaking people. HCM and Phnom Penh have more of that Joseph Conrad/English Empire feel. I can understand how HCM and PP might be attractive to a short time visitor, They are more exotic, more wild.

But maybe as I get older, I like to come back home to a nice condo after work. I like my clean gym. I like going to the mall or Villa and picking up western food. I like getting delicious Thai food most anywhere I go. I like knowing that I can get quality medical care should i need it. I like good internet connections.

I might like to sit in an open-air restaurant in PP, sipping on a cold juice and watching the Tonlé Sap flow by, but after the second or third day, I would be getting mighty bored.

Not taking anything away from those other places, I am quite content in Thailand, warts and all.

[IanForbes]

I'll accept that Folium, yes there is a kind of magic in Mynamar, an old country charm if you like. When you like behind the charm though all you can see is an unremitting tragedy.

India was the Jewel in the British crown, but Burma was loved like no other. Let's not get into a Colonialism argument, but just look at the reality of Burma 1948. It probably had the best Civil Service per head of the population of any country in Asia, it had relative stability, unbelievable natural resources, it had major companies such as Burmah Oil, the Anglo-Burma Tin Mining company, it has one of the largest shipping fleets in the world, alongside an educated middle class with outstanding multi-lingual abilities and a tremendous ethnic mix.

It was a stunning country at the date of Independence, and what happened after was a human catastrophe.

So yes, go look and admire the fading architecture, the ramshackle roads, the decrepit vehicles and down trodden people who will flash you a smile and treat you kindly. Go see the Burma Banks and go up to the mountain ranges, the stunning temples etc you get the idea. But look at it with sadness for what might have been.

I wouldn't swap the post-war history of Thailand as compared to Burma.

On your other point about the possible effects of the country opening up and suffering some negative consequences as a result, I agree. There will be negative consequences for some, There will be a mad dash to industrialization, to build massive sea ports, to build a tourist infrastructure etc.

That is the price of progress, of freedom, of people having the choice and ability to improve their lives. I think we would all like a Time Machine so that we can go back and sample places of yore, but yore is where they will stay......welcome to the future!!

edited for clarity

Very well said. It makes my heart ache when I read the history of Burma and the terrible oppression by its leaders over the past 60 years. There are similarities to the former Rhodesia where the former bread basket of Africa turned into a murderous regime of machete wielding psychos. And there are some similarities in the present day Russia where Mafia leaders replaced the former Army led political leaders.

[NxaiPan]

I have been on the road lately to Manila, KL, Ho Chi Minh, and Phnom Penh as well as smaller places in the countryside. And yes, there are seeming advantages to each over Bangkok/Thailand. KL is cleaner and less crowded, Manila more international, and both have far mroe English-speaking people. HCM and Phnom Penh have more of that Joseph Conrad/English Empire feel. I can understand how HCM and PP might be attractive to a short time visitor, They are more exotic, more wild.

But maybe as I get older, I like to come back home to a nice condo after work. I like my clean gym. I like going to the mall or Villa and picking up western food. I like getting delicious Thai food most anywhere I go. I like knowing that I can get quality medical care should i need it. I like good internet connections.

I might like to sit in an open-air restaurant in PP, sipping on a cold juice and watching the Tonlé Sap flow by, but after the second or third day, I would be getting mighty bored.

Not taking anything away from those other places, I am quite content in Thailand, warts and all.

For me Thailand is a convenient, well connected and well served location in terms of healthcare, education, connectivity etc. It's a good base but I spend few vacations within the country as there are far more interesting options elsewhere in the region, including Myanmar.

Thailand's rather like an everyday drinking bottle of wine, dependable, does the job but there's a lot of other options out there if you are so inclined.

Some people like to settle into a place and make it home, others live out of a suitcase and are always up for a new challenge, destination or excitement. I fall squarely into the second group but can see the other approach's attractions. I'm just not that type of person.

Old cliche: if we all wanted the same thing at the same time, there would be one mighty long queue. So thank goodness that people think and operate differently.

Edited March 1, 2012 by NxaiPan

[NxaiPan]

Folium I was in West Germany when the wall came down, I saw the Trabants queueing up to get into my home town, and I saw the people cry in the street when they realized they had fed a lie for 45 years.

You have just came from one of the greatest countries in the world, which was wrecked by military dictatorship over the course of the last 48 years, and now the people are on their knees.

You compared that regressed country to Thailand. Check your OP,

We seem to be discussing this from 2 different angles.

I am not saying and have not said that Myanmar was anything other than a repressed basket case for the last 5 decades. Even during that time there was a certain magic about the country and it's people notwithstanding the appalling situation they were in.

Now with change apparently underway it is fascinating to witness change finally happening. Many Burmese mention Thailand as how they do not wish to see their country develop in terms of its tourism. Will Myanmar end up with its own versions of Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui? Possibly but perhaps after 50 years there may be sufficient desire to get it right now they finally have the chance.

I'll accept that Folium, yes there is a kind of magic in Mynamar, an old country charm if you like. When you like behind the charm though all you can see is an unremitting tragedy.

India was the Jewel in the British crown, but Burma was loved like no other. Let's not get into a Colonialism argument, but just look at the reality of Burma 1948. It probably had the best Civil Service per head of the population of any country in Asia, it had relative stability, unbelievable natural resources, it had major companies such as Burmah Oil, the Anglo-Burma Tin Mining company, it has one of the largest shipping fleets in the world, alongside an educated middle class with outstanding multi-lingual abilities and a tremendous ethnic mix.

It was a stunning country at the date of Independence, and what happened after was a human catastrophe.

So yes, go look and admire the fading architecture, the ramshackle roads, the decrepit vehicles and down trodden people who will flash you a smile and treat you kindly. Go see the Burma Banks and go up to the mountain ranges, the stunning temples etc you get the idea. But look at it with sadness for what might have been.

I wouldn't swap the post-war history of Thailand as compared to Burma.

On your other point about the possible effects of the country opening up and suffering some negative consequences as a result, I agree. There will be negative consequences for some, There will be a mad dash to industrialization, to build massive sea ports, to build a tourist infrastructure etc.

That is the price of progress, of freedom, of people having the choice and ability to improve their lives. I think we would all like a Time Machine so that we can go back and sample places of yore, but yore is where they will stay......welcome to the future!!

edited for clarity

Without being too nitpicky and considering your previous saltire profile picture your comment about Burma's shipping fleet is very close to home. I presume you are referring to the Irrawaddy Flotilla Company. Built in Scotland and shipped out to Burma for reassembly, this Scottish run company was indeed at one time the world's largest river fleet. Operated until the Japanese invasion when the whole flotilla was scuttled to deny their use to the Japanese.

Burma always had a disproportionate number of Scots and was known as a little slice of Scotland. Makes you feel proud I'm sure!

[theblether]

Folium I was in West Germany when the wall came down, I saw the Trabants queueing up to get into my home town, and I saw the people cry in the street when they realized they had fed a lie for 45 years.

You have just came from one of the greatest countries in the world, which was wrecked by military dictatorship over the course of the last 48 years, and now the people are on their knees.

You compared that regressed country to Thailand. Check your OP,

We seem to be discussing this from 2 different angles.

I am not saying and have not said that Myanmar was anything other than a repressed basket case for the last 5 decades. Even during that time there was a certain magic about the country and it's people notwithstanding the appalling situation they were in.

Now with change apparently underway it is fascinating to witness change finally happening. Many Burmese mention Thailand as how they do not wish to see their country develop in terms of its tourism. Will Myanmar end up with its own versions of Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui? Possibly but perhaps after 50 years there may be sufficient desire to get it right now they finally have the chance.

I'll accept that Folium, yes there is a kind of magic in Mynamar, an old country charm if you like. When you like behind the charm though all you can see is an unremitting tragedy.

India was the Jewel in the British crown, but Burma was loved like no other. Let's not get into a Colonialism argument, but just look at the reality of Burma 1948. It probably had the best Civil Service per head of the population of any country in Asia, it had relative stability, unbelievable natural resources, it had major companies such as Burmah Oil, the Anglo-Burma Tin Mining company, it has one of the largest shipping fleets in the world, alongside an educated middle class with outstanding multi-lingual abilities and a tremendous ethnic mix.

It was a stunning country at the date of Independence, and what happened after was a human catastrophe.

So yes, go look and admire the fading architecture, the ramshackle roads, the decrepit vehicles and down trodden people who will flash you a smile and treat you kindly. Go see the Burma Banks and go up to the mountain ranges, the stunning temples etc you get the idea. But look at it with sadness for what might have been.

I wouldn't swap the post-war history of Thailand as compared to Burma.

On your other point about the possible effects of the country opening up and suffering some negative consequences as a result, I agree. There will be negative consequences for some, There will be a mad dash to industrialization, to build massive sea ports, to build a tourist infrastructure etc.

That is the price of progress, of freedom, of people having the choice and ability to improve their lives. I think we would all like a Time Machine so that we can go back and sample places of yore, but yore is where they will stay......welcome to the future!!

edited for clarity

Without being too nitpicky and considering your previous saltire profile picture your comment about Burma's shipping fleet is very close to home. I presume you are referring to the Irrawaddy Flotilla Company. Built in Scotland and shipped out to Burma for reassembly, this Scottish run company was indeed at one time the world's largest river fleet. Operated until the Japanese invasion when the whole flotilla was scuttled to deny their use to the Japanese.

Burma always had a disproportionate number of Scots and was known as a little slice of Scotland. Makes you feel proud I'm sure!

I wasn't aware that the Scots had as substantial a presence as you have stated, however it doesn't surprise me. I feel sorrow for the Burmese. They had it all and it was taken from them by evil and corrupt men.

Tragic..........I'll be heading there in April, and I am looking forward to the visit. Yes I will be aware of the history, but we have to live in today. Today is looking better for Burma.

[StreetCowboy]

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Without being too nitpicky and considering your previous saltire profile picture your comment about Burma's shipping fleet is very close to home. I presume you are referring to the Irrawaddy Flotilla Company. Built in Scotland and shipped out to Burma for reassembly, this Scottish run company was indeed at one time the world's largest river fleet. Operated until the Japanese invasion when the whole flotilla was scuttled to deny their use to the Japanese.

Burma always had a disproportionate number of Scots and was known as a little slice of Scotland. Makes you feel proud I'm sure!

I wasn't aware that the Scots had as substantial a presence as you have stated, however it doesn't surprise me. I feel sorrow for the Burmese. They had it all and it was taken from them by evil and corrupt men.

Tragic..........I'll be heading there in April, and I am looking forward to the visit. Yes I will be aware of the history, but we have to live in today. Today is looking better for Burma.

But at least its their own evil and corrupt men.

Perhaps we should look on and learn...

SC

[Berkshire]

Now with change apparently underway it is fascinating to witness change finally happening.

But how does YOUR fascination in vicariously witnessing change in Burma (a NEW reason) translate to Thailand's having lost ITS mojo? Clearly it's merely your lost mojo that you've blamed on Thailand.

If you love Burma, why don't you just start a thread about it somewhere and go to it.

Good points. I'd love for Burma to rise from the ashes. The common Burmese deserve it. But not sure why the OP feels that the rise of one requires the decline of another. Concur that the most likely scenario is that the OP's lost some of his mojo.

[bonobo]

I have been on the road lately to Manila, KL, Ho Chi Minh, and Phnom Penh as well as smaller places in the countryside. And yes, there are seeming advantages to each over Bangkok/Thailand. KL is cleaner and less crowded, Manila more international, and both have far mroe English-speaking people. HCM and Phnom Penh have more of that Joseph Conrad/English Empire feel. I can understand how HCM and PP might be attractive to a short time visitor, They are more exotic, more wild.

But maybe as I get older, I like to come back home to a nice condo after work. I like my clean gym. I like going to the mall or Villa and picking up western food. I like getting delicious Thai food most anywhere I go. I like knowing that I can get quality medical care should i need it. I like good internet connections.

I might like to sit in an open-air restaurant in PP, sipping on a cold juice and watching the Tonlé Sap flow by, but after the second or third day, I would be getting mighty bored.

Not taking anything away from those other places, I am quite content in Thailand, warts and all.

For me Thailand is a convenient, well connected and well served location in terms of healthcare, education, connectivity etc. It's a good base but I spend few vacations within the country as there are far more interesting options elsewhere in the region, including Myanmar.

Thailand's rather like an everyday drinking bottle of wine, dependable, does the job but there's a lot of other options out there if you are so inclined.

Some people like to settle into a place and make it home, others live out of a suitcase and are always up for a new challenge, destination or excitement. I fall squarely into the second group but can see the other approach's attractions. I'm just not that type of person.

Old cliche: if we all wanted the same thing at the same time, there would be one mighty long queue. So thank goodness that people think and operate differently.

Good post. And I can certainly understand using Thailand as a base and taking vacations to other places. I also like going to those other places as well; but for limited amounts of time, so a vacation in those places suits me well.

[folium]

I wasn't aware that the Scots had as substantial a presence as you have stated, however it doesn't surprise me. I feel sorrow for the Burmese. They had it all and it was taken from them by evil and corrupt men.

Tragic..........I'll be heading there in April, and I am looking forward to the visit. Yes I will be aware of the history, but we have to live in today. Today is looking better for Burma.

If you would like any ideas re planning your April trip to Myanmar drop me a message.

[moonshadow99]

Very well put I have the same feeling about Thailand and I'm looking at moving on to one of it's neighbours or maybe the Philippines. With Burma becoming more open that maybe the place to head and get back to how Thailand used to be.