Israel raids Palestinian TV stations in Ramallah

[Steely Dan]

I doubt they would be too happy if their plane's attempts to communicate with ground control were interrupted by debates about how best to kill Jews or how to make a bomb in mom's kitchen.

Always a flair for the dramatic eh ?.......

Yet it would be interesting if the Israelis doing the raiding......would make clear the claim as to which of the airline frequencies were infringed

Also have to wonder why they ....would seize administrative files ?

Airline VHF frequencies are well known & not used for ground/commercial radio use for a number of reasons...Obviously it would be dangerous but also useless to the ground station to have their broadcast cut every time a mic button was pushed in a plane.... .But that will surely not be addressed.

Anyway carry on with the usual.....

I will admit your flair for the dramatic was pretty funny this time....Bombs in moms kitchen thanks

Hmmm, I guess you may have a point about air traffic control frequencies, perhaps there are other more mundane terrestrial frequencies that are being interrupted, though I'm glad to see they don't seem to have penetrated your metallic head apparel as of yet. .

[Colin Yai]

I doubt they would be too happy if their plane's attempts to communicate with ground control were interrupted by debates about how best to kill Jews or how to make a bomb in mom's kitchen.

Always a flair for the dramatic eh ?.......

Yet it would be interesting if the Israelis doing the raiding......would make clear the claim as to which of the airline frequencies were infringed

Also have to wonder why they ....would seize administrative files ?

Airline VHF frequencies are well known & not used for ground/commercial radio use for a number of reasons...Obviously it would be dangerous but also useless to the ground station to have their broadcast cut every time a mic button was pushed in a plane.... .But that will surely not be addressed.

Anyway carry on with the usual.....

I will admit your flair for the dramatic was pretty funny this time....Bombs in moms kitchen thanks

Far more dramatic when the young kid straps the bomb to his body and then detonates it in a crowded public place , or are you saying that this sort of thing is not happening on a regular basis?.

[Scott]

Please be civil. Please stay on topic.

[Colin Yai]

*Deleted quote edited out*

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

Edited March 2, 2012 by Scott
Deleted quote edited out

[Wallaby]

*Deleted quote edited out*

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

I do believe Scott has said to stay on topic.

[Colin Yai]

*Deleted quote edited out*

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

I do believe Scott has said to stay on topic.

Sorry bout that Big Boss Global Moderator ,I was just about Through with this thread anyway

[Morch]

As far as I can make out, the original IDF spokeperson's dealt mainly with disruption of regular media broadcasting. Nothing directly referring to air traffic (which seems to be a later addition, not too clear by whom and with no specific source). I guess ground communications at the airport might be effected, not sure how much that bears on flight safety.

This has little to do with silencing media or freedom of speech, though. There are other stations, with more radical content, who would have made better targets for that.

It's an ongoing issue (same goes for cellular), not a real new thing.

Always good to remember that both sides do some things for the sake of internal politics as well:

The Israeli government is about to evacuate another illegal settlement, and gets to show it can play tough. The PA leadership needs to look bold as the Hamas and its own hawkish wing (plus earning some international "freedom of speech" brownie points).

Of course, Israel could have been way smarter about this, Palestinians could regulate frequencies as they are supposed to (then again, Watan is said to be owned by a member of the parliment) - but then they'd miss out on a conflaguration.

[up-country_sinclair]

Is Palestine a country now?

Good point Credo

I don't know what the point is. I don't think anyone has stated Palestine is a country.

The point is that it is not Israel.

Then what is it?

Do some research to find out. In the meantime, stay on topic.

[chuckd]

Good point Credo

I don't know what the point is. I don't think anyone has stated Palestine is a country.

The point is that it is not Israel.

Then what is it?

Do some research to find out. In the meantime, stay on topic.

Who died and left you in charge?

[Ulysses G.]

It is not one completely sided and no one is saying it is, but, it is no secret that the "Palestinians" declared war in the first place and have refused to sign a peace treaty for more than 60 years when it has been offered over and over again.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[OzMick]

Unfortunately this is just another example of the Israeli regime attempting to cover up or stifle news reports of the atrocities it has committed or is ruthlessly planning to commit.

Obviously you simply refuse to believe that Hamas and other radical Islamist,s have perpetrated untold atrocities against "not only "infidels" and Jews worldwide ,but also with there two Islamic sects, the Sunni's and the Shia's who are slaughtering each other on a daily basis ,in their vain quest to ascertain which part of their stone age religion is correct ,you will be trying to inform members next that Hamas in Gaza and Fattah on the West Bank have not been indiscriminately killing each other for years, you really are a joke, thanks for the laugh!

While agreeing with most of your post, it should be noted that most of the major religions are in fact "bronze age." The level of ignorance is only marginally less, but monotheism is definitely an advance on pantheism - only one more god to dispose of.

[OzMick]

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

Perhaps if I looked I would find such but more importantly I have seen many posts/videos that show things that cannot be shown on this forum....

Things like White Phosphorous being used by Israel on Palestinians....

Do you think that may incite hatred in the Palestinians for the Israelis that do such things to their children?

Would it incite hatred in the Israelis if instead it was the Palestinians doing that to Israeli children?

I will say again Hatred is Earned ....Not Learned......

Love & Understanding is Learned but it appears neither side is willing to learn nor teach that

Folks that can *see* know that both sides have issues but it is impossible to swallow Israel's claim that it is all

ONE sided.....It is NOT

After 60 years, most of those affected by border change as a result of WWII and its aftermath have gotten on with life and prospered, while Palestinians still cling to historical claims. The fact that they were for the most part born in other countries doesn't seem to enter their heads, possibly because of their fellow-religionists refusal to grant them citizenship. Understandable that to date they haven't proven themselves to be the most desirable of neighbours.

It should be noted that the staff of Wattan are complaining vociferously. When Israeli buildings are seized by Palestinians, the Israelis involved rarely get that luxury, their capability of response being removed permanently (as in DEAD).

Edited March 2, 2012 by OzMick

[OzMick]

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

Perhaps if I looked I would find such but more importantly I have seen many posts/videos that show things that cannot be shown on this forum....

Things like White Phosphorous being used by Israel on Palestinians....

Do you think that may incite hatred in the Palestinians for the Israelis that do such things to their children?

Would it incite hatred in the Israelis if instead it was the Palestinians doing that to Israeli children?

I will say again Hatred is Earned ....Not Learned......

Love & Understanding is Learned but it appears neither side is willing to learn nor teach that

Folks that can *see* know that both sides have issues but it is impossible to swallow Israel's claim that it is all

ONE sided.....It is NOT

Sorry to double reply, but i forgot a major point.

It is an evolutionary necessity for infants to trust what is taught to them by their elders - "don't go near the edge of the cliff, stay away from the crocodile infested river, etc"

Religion imprinted on children is hard to ignore, even when the tenets are basically ridiculous and unprovable. If children are protected from religion until able to think clearly, it is rejected almost universally except by those suffering some mental defect known as "the god syndrome".

To suggest that hatred and revulsion cannot be learned is simply ridiculous. Catholic/protestant and shia/sunni family children will happily play together until someone points out the artificial difference.

[flying]

It is not one completely sided and no one is saying it is, but, it is no secret that the "Palestinians" declared war in the first place and have refused to sign a peace treaty for more than 60 years when it has been offered over and over again.

you just said none is saying it is one sided then you go on to suggest why it is....??

While folks from the Israeli side may like to claim it is so & it is all Palestine's fault for not signing what is offered....

In any other deal world wide an offer has to be agreeable to BOTH sides.

One side cannot block ports & steal land, building illegal settlements while claiming they will have peace if only the other side listen's to the offer.....

Edited March 3, 2012 by flying

[Scott]

Topic is quite far off topic. Please stick to the topic; it's relevant. The same arguments about off-topic issues is not.

[Colin Yai]

*Deleted quote edited out*

Are you trying to say that Hamas has not declared a "JIHAD" against the Israeli,s and the state of Israel ?

Edited March 3, 2012 by Scott
Deleted quote edited out

[Pakboong]

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

Perhaps if I looked I would find such but more importantly I have seen many posts/videos that show things that cannot be shown on this forum....

Things like White Phosphorous being used by Israel on Palestinians....

Do you think that may incite hatred in the Palestinians for the Israelis that do such things to their children?

Would it incite hatred in the Israelis if instead it was the Palestinians doing that to Israeli children?

I will say again Hatred is Earned ....Not Learned......

Love & Understanding is Learned but it appears neither side is willing to learn nor teach that

Folks that can *see* know that both sides have issues but it is impossible to swallow Israel's claim that it is all

ONE sided.....It is NOT

After 60 years, most of those affected by border change as a result of WWII and its aftermath have gotten on with life and prospered, while Palestinians still cling to historical claims. The fact that they were for the most part born in other countries doesn't seem to enter their heads, possibly because of their fellow-religionists refusal to grant them citizenship. Understandable that to date they haven't proven themselves to be the most desirable of neighbours.

It should be noted that the staff of Wattan are complaining vociferously. When Israeli buildings are seized by Palestinians, the Israelis involved rarely get that luxury, their capability of response being removed permanently (as in DEAD).

I really don't know much about the telecommunications situation but there are statistics that make you general argument a bit suspect.

Are you referring to the one Israeli who was killed by Hamas' 627 rockets and mortars in 2011? 115 Palestinians were killed in response to those rockets. Certainly, these numbers suggest that the Palestinians are the most incompetent terrorists in world history or something or someone is manipulating the situation. Yup, a possible conspiracy theory. That is a Palestinian batting average of .0015. I guess they would round that up to .002. You cannot get enough at bats to have such an average. Even the pitcher who is considered the worst hitter in the old days was Hank Agarie (sp?) and he managed to get the bat on the ball often enough to hit well over .002. I guess I could choose a different year when the terrorist were not in their worst all time slump but why would we want to do that? Now is the only time that is really relevant.

[OzMick]

In regards to my post #3 can you find any Israeli Equivalent to the Video I mentioned "Children of Hamas", to teach your Child that can hardly walk that it is right to kill another just because of their Religion is evil beyond belief and earns my utter contempt .

Perhaps if I looked I would find such but more importantly I have seen many posts/videos that show things that cannot be shown on this forum....

Things like White Phosphorous being used by Israel on Palestinians....

Do you think that may incite hatred in the Palestinians for the Israelis that do such things to their children?

Would it incite hatred in the Israelis if instead it was the Palestinians doing that to Israeli children?

I will say again Hatred is Earned ....Not Learned......

Love & Understanding is Learned but it appears neither side is willing to learn nor teach that

Folks that can *see* know that both sides have issues but it is impossible to swallow Israel's claim that it is all

ONE sided.....It is NOT

After 60 years, most of those affected by border change as a result of WWII and its aftermath have gotten on with life and prospered, while Palestinians still cling to historical claims. The fact that they were for the most part born in other countries doesn't seem to enter their heads, possibly because of their fellow-religionists refusal to grant them citizenship. Understandable that to date they haven't proven themselves to be the most desirable of neighbours.

It should be noted that the staff of Wattan are complaining vociferously. When Israeli buildings are seized by Palestinians, the Israelis involved rarely get that luxury, their capability of response being removed permanently (as in DEAD).

I really don't know much about the telecommunications situation but there are statistics that make you general argument a bit suspect.

Are you referring to the one Israeli who was killed by Hamas' 627 rockets and mortars in 2011? 115 Palestinians were killed in response to those rockets. Certainly, these numbers suggest that the Palestinians are the most incompetent terrorists in world history or something or someone is manipulating the situation. Yup, a possible conspiracy theory. That is a Palestinian batting average of .0015. I guess they would round that up to .002. You cannot get enough at bats to have such an average. Even the pitcher who is considered the worst hitter in the old days was Hank Agarie (sp?) and he managed to get the bat on the ball often enough to hit well over .002. I guess I could choose a different year when the terrorist were not in their worst all time slump but why would we want to do that? Now is the only time that is really relevant.

Would you be comfortable living in area with a couple of rockets a day being fired at you? Your inane batting average spiel is just another way of sating we should cut terrorists some slack because they are incompetent. If you were to come around my place and fire off shots at random, not doing any great damage but scaring the crap out my family, you would get an Israeli style response, limited but very accurate, and with a death toll of similar ratio. I am suggesting they get over their perceived injustices of 60 years ago and get a life.

[flying]

Would you be comfortable living in area with a couple of rockets a day being fired at you? Your inane batting average spiel is just another way of sating we should cut terrorists some slack because they are incompetent.

This is the second time now..............

[OzMick]

Would you be comfortable living in area with a couple of rockets a day being fired at you? Your inane batting average spiel is just another way of sating we should cut terrorists some slack because they are incompetent.

This is the second time now..............

second time what?

[flying]

Would you be comfortable living in area with a couple of rockets a day being fired at you? Your inane batting average spiel is just another way of sating we should cut terrorists some slack because they are incompetent.

This is the second time now..............

second time what?

Second time you have thoroughly missed a clear example that perhaps there is another reason/excuse at play than the one being painted for you.

Whether intentional or not I cannot help but notice it & pointed it out to you last time too.

[OzMick]

Would you be comfortable living in area with a couple of rockets a day being fired at you? Your inane batting average spiel is just another way of sating we should cut terrorists some slack because they are incompetent.

This is the second time now..............

second time what?

Second time you have thoroughly missed a clear example that perhaps there is another reason/excuse at play than the one being painted for you.

Whether intentional or not I cannot help but notice it & pointed it out to you last time too.

Fair cop Guv. I'm a secret Mossad agent flying false colours, and with obviously a bad grasp of the English language because I have no idea of that to which you refer.

<deleted> I have NO idea which "clear example" you mean, or when or about what "the last time" refers to. Spit it out man, clear unambivalent Anglo-Saxon single syllable words.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted and one post edited.

Please stay on the topic--Matthew Shepard isn't the topic, by the way.

Personally, I wouldn't want to live anywhere (and I have) where people are firing rockets in my general direction. I also wouldn't want to live some place where my TV signal was messed up.

[chuckd]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted and one post edited.

Please stay on the topic--Matthew Shepard isn't the topic, by the way.

Personally, I wouldn't want to live anywhere (and I have) where people are firing rockets in my general direction. I also wouldn't want to live some place where my TV signal was messed up.

Then you better stay away from Isaan.

Edited March 3, 2012 by chuckd

[Scott]

Thanks for that most helpful bit of off-topic advice!

[Colin Yai]

Just watched a Video on "you tube" "The great Palestinian lie" by Pat Condell ,its certainly worth a watch. edit, this ones even better "usefull idiots for Palestine"

Edited March 3, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Colin Yai]

This link is quite interesting and appears to blow a hole in some posters opinions www.wall.of.truth.org/myths/

[pkspeaker]

That is a huge exageration of what these people are saying, israel is a racist aphartied state, that is obvious, these people that are opposed to it, think it should be abolished, like it's system of government that keeps palestinians in bantustans and is constantly pushing them out of this area or that area into smaller bantustans, and a state that is a 'jewish state' when more than half the population living there is NOT jewish.. is this not a system that needs serious reform? either a bi-national state.. at this point creating a viable 'palestinian state' means 500000 settlers have to be moved, or is it only 300,000? .. should america be a 'christian state' .. should a government discriminate based on race religion, or creed.. not in america.. shouldn't the palestinians in the west bank be voting in israeli elections ( a bi-national state) instead of haveing sham elections in their own bantustans?

if your a palestinian you are confined to less that 10% of that country, when you include the anexed golan heights(stolen from syria) it's even less, maybe even 7%! 'israelis' are only not permitted in that 10 or 7% where the palestinians are.. how outragious is that.. israel's supporters ramble on about how evil the other side is but they never present a solution that would give palestinians equal rights in their own country.. they use this logic that oppresion is necessary, even when the oppresion is what is creating all the hate and violence.. and why dont you talk about the rhetoric of all these settler groups that advocate the expultion of palestinians? instead of distorting what the muslims are saying?

Unfortunately this is just another example of the Israeli regime attempting to cover up or stifle news reports of the atrocities it has committed or is ruthlessly planning to commit.

Obviously you simply refuse to believe that Hamas and other radical Islamist,s have perpetrated untold atrocities against "not only "infidels" and Jews worldwide ,but also with there two Islamic sects, the Sunni's and the Shia's who are slaughtering each other on a daily basis ,in their vain quest to ascertain which part of their stone age religion is correct ,you will be trying to inform members next that Hamas in Gaza and Fattah on the West bank have not been indiscriminately killing each other for years, you really are a joke, thanks for the laugh!

And your post is relevent to the topic because..........?

I suppose those that agree with what Israel has done only pay lip service to freedom of speech. If you think freedom of speech is important then one must accept that you aren't going to agree with everything, but regardless of what they say, they have a right to say it.

Or is the freedom of speech only acceptable if it conforms to your own view.

There is a huge difference between freedom of speech to what is going on right now in Gaza and yes even Iran and that is the constant incitement to maim ,kill and destroy a Country simply because of it,s different Religious ideology ,try reading the speeches made by Iran's Ahmadinejad calling the complete and total annihilation of Israel and its people ,this I do NOT call freedom of speech but the rantings of a madman.,and in closing IMHO any words calling for violence against another should be suppressed or deleted ,just like it is on this and other forum's .

[Jingthing]

About 75 percent of Israeli citizens are Jewish people of various levels of religiosity (or none). About 20 percent are Arabic people (different religions). Israel is not a hard core theocracy but it has strong theocratic elements (which of course a large percentage of Israeli citizens oppose). Israel as a Jewish state refers to the role of Israel as the homeland for the Jewish PEOPLE (the core of Zionism), not necessarily a mandate for total theocracy. It's interesting that there are about 50 Islamic states in the world and you never hear a peep from anyone that those states don't have the right of self determination to be that way. Only the ONE Jewish state gets that flak.

Also note Jewish immigration into Israel (in addition to the population that has always been there for thousands of years) comes/came from all over the world. Not only Europe and Eastern Europe. Lots of Jews from the Middle East (many booted out), Latin America, the USA, Asia, and Africa.

Nobody rational claims that the Palestinian Arabs don't have many legitimate complaints and rights for their own self determination. But in the context of acceptance of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state ... that seems to be the big problem.

The stuff about Israel being a racist, apartheid state makes good inflammatory talking points but doesn't reflect the complexity of the actual situation. Such as Israel comprising 20 percent Arab citizens. Such as the the declarations of Palestinian leaders that their new state will contain not even one Jewish citizen. Such as the clear goal of the Hamas charter to destroy the state of Israel and get rid of the Jews there, one way or another (not hard to use your imagination on that).

Edited March 5, 2012 by Jingthing

[OzMick]

*Deleted quote edited out*

Most of the Israelis under old age pension age were born in Israel, not another country, continent or planet. Do you deny that many so-called Palestinians were born in refugee camps outside the borders of the old "Palestine" and would be entitled to citizenship if that country was willing to grant it? If I was born 30km inside Switzerland, would that entitle me to French, German or Italian citizenship, because I didn't like mountains?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Scott
Deleted quote edited out