Israel raids Palestinian TV stations in Ramallah

[Scott]

For God's Sake, this is about an Israeli television station.

Stay on topic.

[Colin Yai]

The way I see it the Israelis are perfectly within their rights to shut down broadcasts which in their view is spreading daily poisonous propaganda which in essence amount's to brainwashing people into violence against the ordinary Jewish citizen,to say it is anti free speech is quite frankly delving into the realms of fantasy.

[Scott]

And another off-topic post has been deleted.

Discussion of moderation will earn people a warning.

[pkspeaker]

I want to correct that number 75%, that excludes the palestinians living in the west bank and gaza, i was including them when i said the jewish population is less than 50%.

[Morch]

For God's Sake, this is about an Israeli television station.

Stay on topic.

Palestinian television stations, actually (hope that doesn't count as commenting on moderation) :-).

I think how these topics evolve here on TV, is indicative of how they go over there.

One side (not important which, both at it) can't ask the other side to live up to agreements without both bringing forth a whole bag of previous complaints, infringements, hidden motives and bad blood.

Even a relatively simple issue of transmission frequencies gets turned into a national-political-historical mayhem.

Sad, and shows once again that the main problem is trust (and of course, now a debate on which side is responsible for that....).

[Jingthing]

I want to correct that number 75%, that excludes the palestinians living in the west bank and gaza, i was including them when i said the jewish population is less than 50%.

Israel is a sovereign nation. Like any sovereign nation, it has the power to determine who are it's citizens and who aren't its citizens. Is there unfairness? No doubt. Don't need to look hard to find that in many/most countries in the world. Such as Thailand. However, it is also unfair to consider/count Palestinians in Gaza and the W.B. as citizens of the sovereign nation of Israel, when they ... aren't. The goal of most people of good will who care about these issues is TWO sovereign states. The good will ain't winning. Edited March 5, 2012 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

The way I see it the Israelis are perfectly within their rights to shut down broadcasts which in their view is spreading daily poisonous propaganda which in essence amount's to brainwashing people into violence against the ordinary Jewish citizen,to say it is anti free speech is quite frankly delving into the realms of fantasy.

Hard to say where free speech begins and ends. I generally accept the notion that you do not really have a democracy without free speech or free press. I also understand that you can't yell fire in a crowded theater so of course there are exceptions.

Julius Streicher was hung for his version of free press so there have been cases where free press and speech have been on trial and lost so it is certainly not an absolute matter. Inciting racial hatred through speech or press is a serious matter, and any state. democratic or otherwise, is duty bound to exercise control. The problem becomes what is okay and what is not. The hardliners want a long list and others want a short list.

In such matters in today's Haaretz, I think that Gideon Levy's article entitled "It is just a matter of time before the United States tires of Israel." is IMO clearly evidence that Israel does subscribe to press freedom because that particular view could not be popular among the Jews in Isreal or the Diaspora for that matter,

[Scott]

For God's Sake, this is about an Israeli television station.

Stay on topic.

Palestinian television stations, actually (hope that doesn't count as commenting on moderation) :-).

I think how these topics evolve here on TV, is indicative of how they go over there.

One side (not important which, both at it) can't ask the other side to live up to agreements without both bringing forth a whole bag of previous complaints, infringements, hidden motives and bad blood.

Even a relatively simple issue of transmission frequencies gets turned into a national-political-historical mayhem.

Sad, and shows once again that the main problem is trust (and of course, now a debate on which side is responsible for that....).

No, it's not a comment on moderation. It's a correction of an error that just happen to be made by a moderator.

Thanks.

[Morch]

The way I see it the Israelis are perfectly within their rights to shut down broadcasts which in their view is spreading daily poisonous propaganda which in essence amount's to brainwashing people into violence against the ordinary Jewish citizen,to say it is anti free speech is quite frankly delving into the realms of fantasy.

But this got little to do with freedom of speech.

If that was the case then Hamas broadcasting, PA's official TV station and quite a few radio stations and internet websites would be much higher on the list.

If one wanted to raise a banner against Israel on this issue, it would be with regard to acting within PA controlled area. Does your neighbor interference with your TV sign allows you to break into his home and deal with it? Probably not. Suppose to call in authorities etc. Then again, living in LOS, guess we know that doesn't always work as it should.

There are procedures on dealing with such issues specified in the agreements between Israel and the Palestinians, also agreed upon mediators etc. Most of it doesn't work anymore, as (1) lack of trust in each other and impartiality of mediators, (2) reluctance to accept unfavorable rulings (3) cumbersome and slow process until decisions are made. On top of that, add that both sides do some things for the sake of internal politics.

Messy, messy.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Morch

[maidu]

In order for people to improve themselves or their institutions, they need to have good examples to aspire to. In the Middle East, there are a paucity of good examples for many things. Often, the examples range from bad or dismal. As for quality of radio broadcasting, I was lucky to have spent 25 years in northern California where there is a non-profit station called KVMR. At any given time, over 60 members of the community are hosting programs. The ages of hosts are from 10 to 85, and the variety of programming is phenomenal. All types of music, discussions, history, flea markets, interviews, opinions, humor, ......you name it.

People who have never been outside the Middle East can barely perceive of such an enjoyable, entertaining, educational and inspiring radio format. If they could, perhaps they'd improve their lot in life.

[Colin Yai]

The way I see it the Israelis are perfectly within their rights to shut down broadcasts which in their view is spreading daily poisonous propaganda which in essence amount's to brainwashing people into violence against the ordinary Jewish citizen,to say it is anti free speech is quite frankly delving into the realms of fantasy.

But this got little to do with freedom of speech.

If that was the case then Hamas broadcasting, PA's official TV station and quite a few radio stations and internet websites would be much higher on the list.

If one wanted to raise a banner against Israel on this issue, it would be with regard to acting within PA controlled area. Does your neighbor interference with your TV sign allows you to break into his home and deal with it? Probably not. Suppose to call in authorities etc. Then again, living in LOS, guess we know that doesn't always work as it should.

There are procedures on dealing with such issues specified in the agreements between Israel and the Palestinians, also agreed upon mediators etc. Most of it doesn't work anymore, as (1) lack of trust in each other and impartiality of mediators, (2) reluctance to accept unfavorable rulings (3) cumbersome and slow process until decisions are made. On top of that, add that both sides do some things for the sake of internal politics.

Messy, messy.

With respect may I refer you to Steely Dan,s post #2 ,the Palestinians ,in particular Hamas are spreading anti Israeli poison propaganda not only through TV ,but by the many public vitriolic filled speeches made by Hamas politicians (the people who Iran are bankrolling to the tune of millions of dollars) who advocate Hamas women and Children should use themselves as Human shields in their "Jihad" against Israel . Edited March 5, 2012 by Colin Yai

[maidu]

For God's Sake, this is about an Israeli television station.

Stay on topic.

For which God's sake? Or maybe God drinks sake, and his cup needeth filling.

BTW, I've started a new religion, it's called Moleculanity (rhymes with insanity, and so does Christianity). Stay tuned, I'm currently writing up the Twelve Commandments, and it will be ready in awhile (as soon as I can get around the burning bush blocking my way).

[Steely Dan]

The way I see it the Israelis are perfectly within their rights to shut down broadcasts which in their view is spreading daily poisonous propaganda which in essence amount's to brainwashing people into violence against the ordinary Jewish citizen,to say it is anti free speech is quite frankly delving into the realms of fantasy.

Actually, it would probably be a smart move for the Israelis to come right out and cite this hate propaganda as a reason, at least in the case of the worst Palestinian broadcasts. So doing would at least invite people to consider the content of said broadcasts whilst giving the reasons that Israel gave allows the usual whining from the usual suspects.

[Colin Yai]

As a further Edit , the link in Steely Dans post #2 just about says it all, Hamas will stoop to any levels to kill the Jews ,is it any wonder why the Israeli's seek to silence these propaganda broadcasts of hate and destruction to their citizens.

[Colin Yai]

The way I see it the Israelis are perfectly within their rights to shut down broadcasts which in their view is spreading daily poisonous propaganda which in essence amount's to brainwashing people into violence against the ordinary Jewish citizen,to say it is anti free speech is quite frankly delving into the realms of fantasy.

Actually, it would probably be a smart move for the Israelis to come right out and cite this hate propaganda as a reason, at least in the case of the worst Palestinian broadcasts. So doing would at least invite people to consider the content of said broadcasts whilst giving the reasons that Israel gave allows the usual whining from the usual suspects.

Yeah Dan I agree, just come out with the truth (which can be irrefutably proved) and have done with it once and for all.

[Orac]

As a further Edit , the link in Steely Dans post #2 just about says it all, Hamas will stoop to any levels to kill the Jews ,is it any wonder why the Israeli's seek to silence these propaganda broadcasts of hate and destruction to their citizens.

What do Hamas have to do with these two West Bank TV stations???

[Ulysses G.]

Have you seen what they show on them? They teach children to hate.

[Orac]

Have you seen what they show on them? They teach children to hate.

Sesame Street apparently

“We are an educational television station, which puts on ‘Sesame Street,’ antismoking programs and broadcasts to help integrate handicapped children into the community,” said Lucy Nusseibeh, director of the Institute of Modern Media at Al-Quds University, which operates the station.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/world/middleeast/israeli-troops-raid-two-palestinian-tv-stations-in-ramallah.html

Edited March 5, 2012 by Orac

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[Steely Dan]

Have you seen what they show on them? They teach children to hate.

Sesame Street apparently

“We are an educational television station, which puts on ‘Sesame Street,’ antismoking programs and broadcasts to help integrate handicapped children into the community,” said Lucy Nusseibeh, director of the Institute of Modern Media at Al-Quds University, which operates the station.

http://www.nytimes.c...n-ramallah.html

Sesame street, how nice for the kids, they also have a local version of Mickey mouse

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/791833/racist_mickey_mouse_brainwash_palestinian_kids_in_tv_exposed/

[Orac]

Have you seen what they show on them? They teach children to hate.

Sesame Street apparently

“We are an educational television station, which puts on ‘Sesame Street,’ antismoking programs and broadcasts to help integrate handicapped children into the community,” said Lucy Nusseibeh, director of the Institute of Modern Media at Al-Quds University, which operates the station.

http://www.nytimes.c...n-ramallah.html

Sesame street, how nice for the kids, they also have a local version of Mickey mouse

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/791833/racist_mickey_mouse_brainwash_palestinian_kids_in_tv_exposed/

but what has that got to do with either of the two stations concerned??

[Scott]

This thread is going waaaaay off-topic.

Topic re-opened, but please stay on topic or suspensions will be given.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Scott
re-opened topic

[Steely Dan]

but what has that got to do with either of the two stations concerned??

I'll write it slowly,.... If they can turn Mickey mouse into a suicide bomber who knows what they can manage with their local flavour of Sesame street? With the Palestinian media track record I think it's appropriate to prove any given program has no incitement to racial hatred, not the other way round.

[Wallaby]

but what has that got to do with either of the two stations concerned??

I'll write it slowly,.... If they can turn Mickey mouse into a suicide bomber who knows what they can manage with their local flavour of Sesame street? With the Palestinian media track record I think it's appropriate to prove any given program has no incitement to racial hatred, not the other way round.

I'll write it even more slowly. The reasons Israel gave for shutting it down had nothing to do with and incitement of racial hatred.

[up-country_sinclair]

I think it's appropriate to prove any given program has no incitement to racial hatred, not the other way round.

Prove it to whom? Specifically.

And BTW, it is worth noting that it is illegal under Israeli law for Israelis to enter Ramallah.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Since some posters insist on going off-topic and baiting others, then the next step will be suspensions.

[Ulysses G.]

but what has that got to do with either of the two stations concerned??

I'll write it slowly,.... If they can turn Mickey mouse into a suicide bomber who knows what they can manage with their local flavour of Sesame street? With the Palestinian media track record I think it's appropriate to prove any given program has no incitement to racial hatred, not the other way round.

I'll write it even more slowly. The reasons Israel gave for shutting it down had nothing to do with and incitement of racial hatred.

The point is that the station was violating the law and endangered the public by interfering with airport communications.

According to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement of September 28, 1995, Annex III, a schedule of six approved television frequency channels and transmitter locations was an integral part of accords signed by both sides. The offending television broadcasts were in clear violation of said agreement, and moreover were a challenge to the licensing powers of the PA itself.

http://www.jpost.com

Edited March 6, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

but what has that got to do with either of the two stations concerned??

I'll write it slowly,.... If they can turn Mickey mouse into a suicide bomber who knows what they can manage with their local flavour of Sesame street? With the Palestinian media track record I think it's appropriate to prove any given program has no incitement to racial hatred, not the other way round.

I'll write it even more slowly. The reasons Israel gave for shutting it down had nothing to do with and incitement of racial hatred.

The point is that the station was violating the law and endangered the public by interfering with airport communications.

According to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement of September 28, 1995, Annex III, a schedule of six approved television frequency channels and transmitter locations was an integral part of accords signed by both sides. The offending television broadcasts were in clear violation of said agreement, and moreover were a challenge to the licensing powers of the PA itself.

http://www.jpost.com

Glad you agree with me then. Absolutely nothing to do with what they broadcast.

[Ulysses G.]

Not in this particular case. They were raided for operating illegally.

[Steely Dan]

Actually, if the channel which was closed down was one of the less extreme in it's content it actually then does lend credence to Israel's assertions that it is interfering with other frequencies in contravention of a prior agreement. There is an element of theatre here as the Palestinian authority is also known to censor any content critical of itself, which in the case of Israel would probably lead to Haaretz being closed down if a similar approach was taken.

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=914

"A Ramadan TV series that became notorious for its criticism of Palestinian Authority officials has been discontinued on the PA-run Palestine TV, Attorney General Ahmad Al-Mughni said Tuesday evening.