Analysis: Beginning Of The End Of Thaksin?

[chownah]

Sriracha john, I don't mind levity but you are just being rude and thoughtless....I don't see any humor in your comments at all.

Sincerely,

Chownah

What disturbs people the most is the way Thaksin has gone about the deal. It was the way he was almost gloating ... It's the gloating and the double standards.

Don't they look like lottery winners?

Thanks for the picture of the happy family. I'm really shocked and dismayed that this family should be happy about anything....it would be much better if they just scowled all the time.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What disturbs people the most is the way Thaksin has gone about the deal. It was the way he was almost gloating ... It's the gloating and the double standards.

:cheesy:

Pretty little thing isn't she ?

Great reply...you have shown your true wit and wisdom here by choosing such an important topic to comment on and doing it in such a clever and insightful way.

CLOWNAH WASN'T IT ?

[Heng]

If anything, it just shows that some posters are more emotionally involved with matters that they have no control over than they should be.

[Cassandra]

Speaking about telecoms. Foreign investment is one thing, but the current situation is worrysome - AIS is now Singapore owned, Dtac is essentially Norwegian, only Orange left, and it has about 80 bil baht in debts, which is about the same size as Taksin's share in Shin.

What we have is market practically owned by foreigners with no locals left (Orange's share is only about 15%).

Thais usually don't allow foreign domination in essential markets, like banking. Telecoms are slipping through their fingers as we speak.

In what way is foreign investment "worrysome" even if it means domination of a particular sector?

On balance it would be good for the Thai consumer -more efficient,better service,improved technology,better value for money.

On balance it would be bad for the small Sino-Thai business clique hogging the trough at present.Of course they wil bray about "foreign domination" but the truth is they are scared of real competition.

[haha]

I have been living here for over 7 years. I love thailand, and because I do, I feel obligated to speak up if I think people are unjustly criticizing the government through the use of lies.

I may not be the smartest guy in the world, I know. but I try to be honest, and fair.

Sorry, my apologies. I do not try to be an arrogant prick, which i am at times.

Try to understand my position please. The points i have raised are all points that i had to deal with in my personal life here. I think that i have pointed out to you that my wife was in immediate proximity to one drugwar execution, approximately 5 meters away. My wife could have easily been killed. So, apart from all legalities, this drugwar was a personal thread to me and my family. And this i tell you in all honesty. So be fair, please, accept that some things might not be part of your personal experience, but are nevertheless true, and others have experienced it.

The same counts to all the other points i have raised - they not just have an devastating effect on the country - they have endangered the lifes of my family.

I do not want to destroy your love for Thailand. But mate, as nice of a personal life here we can create for ourselves, that does not mean that Thailand is a paradise. Far from it. Blocking out, rejecting everything that might derail you from loving Thailand does not serve any useful purpose.

Thailand is a real country, with real problems. I personally do my best to change things for the better. Not only out of some mistaken altruism, but also simply because i will have an easier time if my family is doing alright. And those efforts do bring me more often than not in direct conflict with the government.

For example the loan schemes: I had initially a hard time explaining my family that taking up the easy loan offers would lead to their utter ruin, as they would not have had the slightest chance to pay back the loans. And that was at a time when government officials came every month to them trying to pressurize them into taking up the loan offers, trying to mob them, blackmail them, any dirty trick you can imagine.

The agricultural schemes were similar: officials tried to apply pressure so that we change our selfsufficient farm (according the roayally sponsored "sittakit por pueang" sythem), into a worldmarket oriented sythem, that was simply not economically feasable.

I believe that i have pissed off many TRT members in the area by refusing to take part in their schemes. The only thing though that i care about is that my family prospers, and i don't need to support them. Most others though who took part in the schemes do everything else than prosper.

Do you understand where i am coming from? I am not a "foreigner" on the sidelines barking up the tree. TRT rule has made my and my family's life very difficult, and i have 5 years of defensive battling behind me. I dream of the days under Chuan, where things went slow, but steady. And i pray that we can have a return to those far more peaceful and enjoyable days without any further bloodshed.

ideally, in a democratic country laws are made to protect the people in a country. that includes you.

work with and through the law. if something doesn't seem to be working right, vote to correct it.

if someone is harassing you, then, there should be laws to protect you from that. in the usa, we have such laws.

if you feel like your financial debts are too much for you to handle, then, use the laws to protect you. in the usa, we have laws to protect the individual from creditors harassing you for repayment of loans. these laws are called bankruptcy laws. a person is allowed under the law to declare bankruptcy once every 7 years if they need to do so.

I think thailand now has such laws. but you will need to check that out for yourself.

on the idea of accepting heresay...

in my life, I have encountered many people who "lie" to get their way. so, I am very wary of believing other people stories without proof. many times, I will not believe something unless I see it myself.

if some people from the government tried to "force" you to take their loans, I would report them to the people above them.

on your mishap with the police...

personally, I have encountered rogue police. it is scary when you meet someone like this. but I have also met many friendly police. so, I know that they are not all bad.

I truly believe that thaksin is just trying ways to help the country. the number of projects he has implemented tells me he cares. he is trying to improve the country. you need to understand that there is no straight road to success. it is usually a uphill battle. so, you should work with thaksin to correct problems encountered along the path he is following.

on thailand.. love is in the eye of the beholder. I love both thailand and america. but not being a rich man, I prefer to be in thailand now because I can live within my means here without having to work. to live the same way in the states would require that I work. ..it is a no-brainer to come here.

[dan10400]

I truly believe that thaksin is just trying ways to help the country. the number of projects he has implemented tells me he cares. he is trying to improve the country. you need to understand that there is no straight road to success. it is usually a uphill battle. so, you should work with thaksin to correct problems encountered along the path he is following.

more than a couple people on this board have pointed out that

the list of actual "accomplishmens" of the taxsin adminstration

over the last 5 yeas that can actually be attributed to the taxsin

administration is very short indeed (i believe it got whittled down

to a minimum wage increase for the poor - and summary

shooting of drug dealers for those on this board who thought

that was a good idea).

other initiatives have been to buy a football team, put a bridge

over the gulf of thailand, four iterations of the thailand premier

club card, etc.

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

[haha]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

[Jai Dee]

The saga gets even funnier...

This article was reported in The Nation today:

Thaksin requests Loso's song for his opponents

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra Wednesday came up with a musical reply for his opponents. In time of political uncertainty surrounding his leadership, he says he listens to his favourite song, Even If, by Loso. The lyrics read:

"Even if you don't trust a mean face like mine, don't want to look at me please give me a chance still."

[dan10400]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

you are kinda pushing the line here sport. just where did i lie? i only

asked you to come up with 'accomplishments' or the positives of the

taxsin administration. if you cannot do that, so be it. no need to

respond and accuse me of lying.

when your position is basically "why don't people help taxsin instead of

questioning his motives" - that would fall under what most would consider

'harassing'. basically your posts are long drawn out diatribes along

this theme with lack of any substance. if the position of your diatribes

are not getting through, maybe you should shorten them.

[Jai Dee]

Thaksin’s exit: a question of when, not if

First, he said he would never step down from the premiership. “I will consider that in my next reincarnation,” Thaksin told the growing number of people screaming, “Thaksin, get out!”

Then, he underwent a subtle shift with his ironclad statement, “I will die in office.” The tone might still be unyielding, but there was a clear concession that death, albeit in the political sense, might not be all that remote. The deadline, too, might be much closer than he had thought only a few days earlier.

Not long after that soft back-pedalling, Thaksin made yet another little-noticed retreat, and few political commentators picked up on the nuance. But it was clear that the tough-talking, never-say-die leader was feeling the growing pressure for him to quit. Thaksin began to realise that his political mortality was staring him in the face. He tried to strike a new bargain. The tone remained uncompromising, but it was clear that he was in the throes of the biggest crisis in his political life.

Thaksin declared, “I won’t step down until I can find a successor who can run the country and the party.” Some observers might have jumped to the conclusion that that was a declaration of faith and intention from a supremely confident leader who was on the verge of getting a third four-year term as premier.

But I came away with a totally different interpretation. To me, that was the statement of a badly shaken prime minister who realises he is losing his grip on power and is desperately fighting for breathing room. Talking about a successor means he is preparing for his own departure. Hinting at a third term is just the unconscious self-consolation of a psychopath who isn’t quite sure he will still be in power in the next few weeks.

Thaksin has been so obsessed with his struggle for survival these past few weeks that he has lost touch with reality – and has bid farewell to his common sense. His only claim to legitimacy is his oft-repeated “19 million votes” in the last election – although a few polls this past week have suggested that the number could shrink to fewer than 9 million if an election were held today – while almost all of his other vital pillars of support have collapsed from underneath him like a house of cards.

Thaksin still lives under the illusion that he can choose his own successor. Before the scandal over his family’s sale of Shin Corp’s shares to Singapore’s Temasek Holdings last month, he might still have been arguably in possession of some semblance of legitimacy. But now, that claim has effectively evaporated. Whether he realises it or not, Thaksin no longer has the right to name his successor. The disillusioned and angry public won’t stop at calling for the ouster of Thaksin; the battle cry is for the removal of all vital traces of Thaksinomics and his “CEO-style politics”.

One tell-tale sign of being on the verge of giving up the fight if he could negotiate a way for him and his family to escape unscathed came during a closed-door session with his Thai Rak Thai members the other day. Thaksin was quoted as saying, “Even hardened criminals get their sentences commuted to half if they eventually own up to having committed the crime.” He stopped short of asking, “Could I demand the same treatment?” But it was clear what he was getting at.

As long as he stubbornly clings to the claim that 19 million voters remain on his side, Thaksin apparently still doesn’t realise the power people can have when they withdraw their consent.

His latest attempt to cool the rising political temperature against him is to convene a special joint session of Parliament to debate the ongoing political turmoil. That’s even worse than trying to lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. He has exhausted all legal arguments to defend his blatant series of conflicts of interest – so much so that his legitimacy, credibility and trustworthiness have all but vanished into thin air.

To make a bad situation even worse, Thaksin has let it be known through Deputy Premier Wissanu Krea-ngam, one of his few remaining lieutenants ready to defend him in public, that the joint parliamentary sitting will discuss only the roles of the Revenue Department, the Stock Exchange of Thailand and the Securities and Exchange Commission – not the really hot issue: the Shinawatra family’s dubious share deals and the complicated web of stock transactions, all the way from Shin headquarters in Bangkok to Singapore via the British Virgins Islands.

It’s like being cordially invited to attend a funeral, but upon arrival, the corpse has gone missing. A huge panel of doctors is still conducting the much-sought-after post-mortem; are you supposed to mourn or celebrate?

Source: The Nation - Thu, February 23, 2006

[ColPyat]

ideally, in a democratic country laws are made to protect the people in a country. that includes you.

work with and through the law. if something doesn't seem to be working right, vote to correct it.

if someone is harassing you, then, there should be laws to protect you from that. in the usa, we have such laws.

if you feel like your financial debts are too much for you to handle, then, use the laws to protect you. in the usa, we have laws to protect the individual from creditors harassing you for repayment of loans. these laws are called bankruptcy laws. a person is allowed under the law to declare bankruptcy once every 7 years if they need to do so.

I think thailand now has such laws. but you will need to check that out for yourself.

on the idea of accepting heresay...

in my life, I have encountered many people who "lie" to get their way. so, I am very wary of believing other people stories without proof. many times, I will not believe something unless I see it myself.

if some people from the government tried to "force" you to take their loans, I would report them to the people above them.

on your mishap with the police...

personally, I have encountered rogue police. it is scary when you meet someone like this. but I have also met many friendly police. so, I know that they are not all bad.

I truly believe that thaksin is just trying ways to help the country. the number of projects he has implemented tells me he cares. he is trying to improve the country. you need to understand that there is no straight road to success. it is usually a uphill battle. so, you should work with thaksin to correct problems encountered along the path he is following.

on thailand.. love is in the eye of the beholder. I love both thailand and america. but not being a rich man, I prefer to be in thailand now because I can live within my means here without having to work. to live the same way in the states would require that I work. ..it is a no-brainer to come here.

And how do you think that there is any way to "work with Thaksin"?

There is no way that anyone who does not completely agree with Thaksin comes even close to him. Thaksin has a proven track record of ignoring and ridiculing anyone who does not blindly follow his line, as even several founding members of TRT had to learn.

I do know several generals, for example, who have very feasable plans to bring peace to the south, who tried in vain to present their ideas. If high ranked generals don't get behind Thaksin's walls of seclusion, how on earth do you imagine some farang married into a Thai ethnic minority peasant family can?

And complaining about people from the TRT government abusing their power, hoping that the "law" protects and helps you?! It's they themselves who make those laws.

Your only protection against them on a local village level is that they hesitate to follow up on their dislike towards you because you have more local guns on your side. In many distant Mu Bans police is not part of the equasion, as they don't enter, and people sort out their own problems. Which is far from ideal, but given the endemic corruption of the entire police force, the lesser of the two evils.

I am astonished to hear from you that you trust Thaksin solely because he "implemented" projects (many of which he did not implement, only took credit for), even though the ones he really implemented have desastrous results.

Maybe if you would start working here (and i mean not just for money - there are many kinds of "work") you would get a more realistic picture of Thailand, especially that things are not like in the US, and that there is very little "ideally, in a democratic country" here in Thailand.

[zzap]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

I have read most of this thread, and dan's description of your position fits quite well, I think.

I am also one of the posters who find your comments difficult to accept and very naive, frankly you seem to lack the ability to digest information and arguments presented to you.

At the same time I keep looking at your avatar, which seems to match the 'maturity' of your comments.

Very irritating.

Example:

'Executions' during the war on drugs.

You insist that you'd rather believe the police officer, that you have met many decent policemen, and that there are a few bad cops - but criticising Thaksin and the police is unjustified complaining and lies.

And you seem to believe, that this somehow rebutts the evidence to the contrary presented in the form of media reports, the documented findings of human rights organisations and another poster's personal experience???

[Jai Dee]

I think I'll post breaking news updates and editorials on this topic in another thread... and leave this one for you guys to slug it out...

Have fun.

[sriracha john]

I think I'll post breaking news updates and editorials on this topic in another thread... and leave this one for you guys to slug it out...

Have fun.

Careful now... between the Loso lyrics and this one, you might be exceeding the daily maximum allowance of levity with comments like those...

If I have restrain myself from posting photos of Thaksin's OTHER equally fetching sisters... you have to restrain yourself, as well, from too much humor....

Good thing there's no limit on Heng's haranguing comments. We can always do with more of those insightful bits.

[haha]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

I have read most of this thread, and dan's description of your position fits quite well, I think.

I am also one of the posters who find your comments difficult to accept and very naive, frankly you seem to lack the ability to digest information and arguments presented to you.

At the same time I keep looking at your avatar, which seems to match the 'maturity' of your comments.

Very irritating.

Example:

'Executions' during the war on drugs.

You insist that you'd rather believe the police officer, that you have met many decent policemen, and that there are a few bad cops - but criticising Thaksin and the police is unjustified complaining and lies.

And you seem to believe, that this somehow rebutts the evidence to the contrary presented in the form of media reports, the documented findings of human rights organisations and another poster's personal experience???

work with the laws, man. if you don't like what is there, work through the laws to bring about change.

I believe in freedom of speech as long as what you have to say is not based on lies. when you accuse someone of something without any substantial proof, you are lying.

regarding the bad police...

the bad police were here long before thaksin is in power. how can you blame their existence on thaksin?

on the honesty of media reports...

come on, give me a break. do you really believe everything you read?

on my avatar. do you really like it that much? hehehe.

[haha]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

you are kinda pushing the line here sport. just where did i lie? i only

asked you to come up with 'accomplishments' or the positives of the

taxsin administration. if you cannot do that, so be it. no need to

respond and accuse me of lying.

when your position is basically "why don't people help taxsin instead of

questioning his motives" - that would fall under what most would consider

'harassing'. basically your posts are long drawn out diatribes along

this theme with lack of any substance. if the position of your diatribes

are not getting through, maybe you should shorten them.

refer to the "blue". I did not say this.

wouldn't you call this a distortion of what I said?

[tettyan]

on the honesty of media reports...

come on, give me a break. do you really believe everything you read?

Not necessarily. But let me turn this question on you.

Do you really believe everything Thaksin says?

[dan10400]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

refer to the "blue". I did not say this.

wouldn't you call this a distortion of what I said?

i summarizied your opinions as you have so often expressed. even

though you did not write the quote in 'blue' ,i stand by my position

that it pretty much sums up what you write in your posts. the following

of which is typical:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=654015

my interpretation of what you want to express may be wrong, and you

may want to address that. however, it does not warrant being

referred to as 'lying' (i will leave that quote of yours inact for you

convenience).

[thailien8]

I just want to express my admiration of, and support for ColPyat's posts on this thread. Here is someone who knows what he is writing about, and has the personal experience to back it up. I was esp. interested in your accounts of gov't. pressure on you and your family to go along with TRT's schemes to get everyone into debt, and your resistance to this. Good for you! Any more details you would care to provide would be of great interest to Thai residents like me, who don't have this personal experience, but can read about what is going on and hope Toxin will soon be gone.

[haha]

what baffles me most is your position that people are just harassing

poor 'ol meaw (taxsin) because they have nothing better to do.

for me, it has been amazing that the status quo over the last five

years has gone on for as long as it has without more widespread

'harassment'.

did I really say that?? I think you should reread my previous posting.

frankly, you have a bad habit of distorting the facts. (lying)

refer to the "blue". I did not say this.

wouldn't you call this a distortion of what I said?

i summarizied your opinions as you have so often expressed. even

though you did not write the quote in 'blue' ,i stand by my position

that it pretty much sums up what you write in your posts. the following

of which is typical:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=654015

my interpretation of what you want to express may be wrong, and you

may want to address that. however, it does not warrant being

referred to as 'lying' (i will leave that quote of yours inact for you

convenience).

you misread my previous posting. when I said quote, "waste of time". I was referring to all the wasted time that pm thaksin is spending having to address all these anti-thaksin folks. (I think you knew that.)

he should be focusing on solving the countries problems, not all these complaints from people who have already judged him guilty without due process.

on the distortion of facts...

one of the points I mentioned earlier about anti-thaksin folks accusing thaksin of quote, "changing the laws" to take advantage of some major profits was one of them.

thaksin doesn't approve the laws, the house and senate do, right?

personally, in my opinion, I think there are more people who want pm thaksin to stay then to go. and I think the anti-thaksin folks will soon find this out.

my 2 cents.

[haha]

ideally, in a democratic country laws are made to protect the people in a country. that includes you.

work with and through the law. if something doesn't seem to be working right, vote to correct it.

if someone is harassing you, then, there should be laws to protect you from that. in the usa, we have such laws.

if you feel like your financial debts are too much for you to handle, then, use the laws to protect you. in the usa, we have laws to protect the individual from creditors harassing you for repayment of loans. these laws are called bankruptcy laws. a person is allowed under the law to declare bankruptcy once every 7 years if they need to do so.

I think thailand now has such laws. but you will need to check that out for yourself.

on the idea of accepting heresay...

in my life, I have encountered many people who "lie" to get their way. so, I am very wary of believing other people stories without proof. many times, I will not believe something unless I see it myself.

if some people from the government tried to "force" you to take their loans, I would report them to the people above them.

on your mishap with the police...

personally, I have encountered rogue police. it is scary when you meet someone like this. but I have also met many friendly police. so, I know that they are not all bad.

I truly believe that thaksin is just trying ways to help the country. the number of projects he has implemented tells me he cares. he is trying to improve the country. you need to understand that there is no straight road to success. it is usually a uphill battle. so, you should work with thaksin to correct problems encountered along the path he is following.

on thailand.. love is in the eye of the beholder. I love both thailand and america. but not being a rich man, I prefer to be in thailand now because I can live within my means here without having to work. to live the same way in the states would require that I work. ..it is a no-brainer to come here.

And how do you think that there is any way to "work with Thaksin"?

There is no way that anyone who does not completely agree with Thaksin comes even close to him. Thaksin has a proven track record of ignoring and ridiculing anyone who does not blindly follow his line, as even several founding members of TRT had to learn.

I do know several generals, for example, who have very feasable plans to bring peace to the south, who tried in vain to present their ideas. If high ranked generals don't get behind Thaksin's walls of seclusion, how on earth do you imagine some farang married into a Thai ethnic minority peasant family can?

And complaining about people from the TRT government abusing their power, hoping that the "law" protects and helps you?! It's they themselves who make those laws.

Your only protection against them on a local village level is that they hesitate to follow up on their dislike towards you because you have more local guns on your side. In many distant Mu Bans police is not part of the equasion, as they don't enter, and people sort out their own problems. Which is far from ideal, but given the endemic corruption of the entire police force, the lesser of the two evils.

I am astonished to hear from you that you trust Thaksin solely because he "implemented" projects (many of which he did not implement, only took credit for), even though the ones he really implemented have desastrous results.

Maybe if you would start working here (and i mean not just for money - there are many kinds of "work") you would get a more realistic picture of Thailand, especially that things are not like in the US, and that there is very little "ideally, in a democratic country" here in Thailand.

let me get this straight...

you seem to be telling me that..

1) you believe that the whole thai police force is corrupted,

2) thaksin is a crook who makes the laws, and,

3) thailand is not a democratic country.

if you are a foreigner, I suggest you leave the country if you don't like it that much.

if you are a thai person, then, you must be feeling like you are in hel_l.

on my opinion of thaksin...

like I said, I think he is trying to improve the country. and I think most of the house and senate do too. I mean they have to give him their approval before he proceeds on any course of action, right?

....oh, I get it...

4) the house and senate are all crooks too?

[sriracha john]

I just want to express my admiration of, and support for ColPyat's posts on this thread. Here is someone who knows what he is writing about, and has the personal experience to back it up. I was esp. interested in your accounts of gov't. pressure on you and your family to go along with TRT's schemes to get everyone into debt, and your resistance to this. Good for you! Any more details you would care to provide would be of great interest to Thai residents like me, who don't have this personal experience, but can read about what is going on and hope Toxin will soon be gone.

I, too, wish to echo thailien's comments on ColPyat's posts. Top notch. Insightful and well-written.

And just to expound on the issue of these throwaway government loans. It was reported last night on Nation's television news that 43,000 farmers had defaulted on their loans and were unable to pay!

[penzman]

Maybe that's where they were getting the land given away on his reality show?

[marshbags]

by ha ha

let me get this straight...

you seem to be telling me that..

1) you believe that the whole thai police force is corrupted,

2) thaksin is a crook who makes the laws, and,

3) thailand is not a democratic country.

if you are a foreigner, I suggest you leave the country if you don't like it that much.

if you are a thai person, then, you must be feeling like you are in hel_l.

on my opinion of thaksin...

like I said, I think he is trying to improve the country. and I think most of the house and senate do too. I mean they have to give him their approval before he proceeds on any course of action, right?

....oh, I get it...

4) the house and senate are all crooks too?

..........................................................................

.................ended

Your not a TRT official / public relations rep by any chance are you ? i,m beginning to wonder...

I along with all participating T.Visa members have been patiently reading and debating many of your posts.

From your last observations you can easily get answers in one syllable for numbers 1,2,3.

Yes, unless you are among the privilidged few.

For number 4 the government and it,s representatives are the Kamoy in chiefs puppets and he pulls all the strings.

Because of this there are no checks and balances within the house and this is not democratic and most important very dangerous for Thailands international standing not withstanding it,s citizens interests.

( no matter what the outcome of the present scandal is, the damage will be far reaching eventually, unless there is complete change. )

Regarding your comments on foreigners, you do all international a great dis service to say the least

for offering genuine guidance/ imput and investment from ouside the country to take Thailand into the respectable future every citizen deserves.

As for your hel_l remark, how can anyone who has never had an experience to live in a fair society

free of all the negatives that they have in the past favoured only the chosen few. know anything better ( up till now ) and therefore thought it was a normal way to live and be told what is good for you by Pu yai who they are taught know better ( or should it be worse ).

What will Thailand do if all foreigners including businesses take you literally and leave then ha ha ?

I for one am not swayed one bit by your comments and that,s democracy.

marshbags

P.S. if you need further proof on number 4 about your reference to the establishment, look no further than the Chonburi godfather and todays press on the situation.

Do you honestly believe if he where less privilidged, with people, family and friends in high places, he wouldn,t already be on death row or dead already not withstanding the eventual outcome of todays hearing.????????????????????????????????

Edited February 24, 2006 by marshbags

[sriracha john]

GUILTY!!

SEC: PM Thaksin's son violated shares ownership reporting rules

Securities Exchange Commission announced Thursday that Phantongtae Shinawatra, the prime minister's son, violated share ownership reporting rules by failing to report indirect holdings in Shin Corp Plc via an offshore company in 2000 and 2002.

Phantongtae also violated a mandatory tender offer rule, because his total direct and indirect holdings exceeded the 25 per cent trigger point on Sept. 1, 2001, SEC Secretary General Theerachai Phuwanartnaranubal told a news conference.

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter Pintongta did not violate any reporting requirements, he said.

Theerachai said that according to regulations, Phantongtae could be fined Bt500,000 plus Bt10,000 for each day until the information was corrected, but the actual penalty will be decided by a committee appointed by the Ministry of Finance, including representatives of the ministry's Fiscal Policy Office, the police and the Bank of Thailand.

The regulations also provide for a penalty of up to two years in jail, but Theerachai noted that in 72 previous cases, prison sentences were advised only in seven cases involving other serious offences such as fraudulent accounting, or insider trading.

- TN 24/02/06

------------------------------------

perhaps being the biggest deal in the history of the SET would also warrant a prison sentence as it was fraudulent.

Then the boy could try to sell his million baht mobile phones in prison... I'm sure there would be lots of customers.

Edited February 24, 2006 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

let me get this straight...

you seem to be telling me that..

1) you believe that the whole thai police force is corrupted,

2) thaksin is a crook who makes the laws, and,

3) thailand is not a democratic country.

if you are a foreigner, I suggest you leave the country if you don't like it that much.

if you are a thai person, then, you must be feeling like you are in hel_l.

on my opinion of thaksin...

like I said, I think he is trying to improve the country. and I think most of the house and senate do too. I mean they have to give him their approval before he proceeds on any course of action, right?

....oh, I get it...

4) the house and senate are all crooks too?

Let me guess - you don't have many Thai friends, or know any Thais that you can discuss politics or affairs of daily life with?

You may have your opinions on Thaksin, but stating that the police force as a whole is not entirely corrupt is ridiculous.

Concerning "leaving the country" - I really have to wonder if you read my posts. I believe i have expressed rather clearly that i am not on extended holiday in a place i can live cheaply but do have responsibilities here towards my family. Which i believe counts for many people here in this discussion.

I do not have the habit to run away from my responsibilities, only because things are getting a bit difficult. Wouldn't that be rather cowardish? Sorry, if i want to keep a sense of selfworth i will stay.

Improving things in your surroundings does not equal blindly toeing the line of government. One of the basics of "democracy" is to be able to disagree. 'Ya know - freedom of speach, ever heard of that?

Here in Thailand opponents of Thaksin only exercise their constitutional rights in a democracy, be it within the parliament, or via demonstrations. If this form of democracy is not to your liking, then i would suggest for you to move to Burma. Their sythem of government might suit you better, judging by the position you have taken so far in this discussion.

[CL0R0X]

haha Posted Today, 2006-02-24 04:22:25

let me get this straight...

you seem to be telling me that..

1) you believe that the whole thai police force is corrupted,

2) thaksin is a crook who makes the laws, and,

3) thailand is not a democratic country.

if you are a foreigner, I suggest you leave the country if you don't like it that much.

if you are a thai person, then, you must be feeling like you are in hel_l.

on my opinion of thaksin...

like I said, I think he is trying to improve the country. and I think most of the house and senate do too. I mean they have to give him their approval before he proceeds on any course of action, right?

....oh, I get it...

4) the house and senate are all crooks too?

hey buddy let me fill you in on something, do you remember the airport CTX scandale dude, well the house and senate said he was a innocent, funny thing isn't, he didn't get kick out of office, instead move to another position,

i believe what ever you say man!!!

[Heng]

As a Thai, and not a pro-Thaksin supporter (didn't even vote), I do feel Thaksin is indeed trying. Yes, he's neck deep in the corruption trough like every other administration since 1950 (and no, having a few people in any administration who happened to not be corrupt by no means made that administration corruption free, either in total amounts or principle... ala Chuan, others...), but the poor have never had opportunities like the one's given to them by the Thaksin administration. Yes, understandably they have failed at paying back loans, but hello, they are from a hundred plus generations of poor folks, it's not like you can expect a miracle transformation from 'in the fields' work ethic to business owners in a few years.

[haha]

let me get this straight...

you seem to be telling me that..

1) you believe that the whole thai police force is corrupted,

2) thaksin is a crook who makes the laws, and,

3) thailand is not a democratic country.

if you are a foreigner, I suggest you leave the country if you don't like it that much.

if you are a thai person, then, you must be feeling like you are in hel_l.

on my opinion of thaksin...

like I said, I think he is trying to improve the country. and I think most of the house and senate do too. I mean they have to give him their approval before he proceeds on any course of action, right?

....oh, I get it...

4) the house and senate are all crooks too?

Let me guess - you don't have many Thai friends, or know any Thais that you can discuss politics or affairs of daily life with?

You may have your opinions on Thaksin, but stating that the police force as a whole is not entirely corrupt is ridiculous.

Concerning "leaving the country" - I really have to wonder if you read my posts. I believe i have expressed rather clearly that i am not on extended holiday in a place i can live cheaply but do have responsibilities here towards my family. Which i believe counts for many people here in this discussion.

I do not have the habit to run away from my responsibilities, only because things are getting a bit difficult. Wouldn't that be rather cowardish? Sorry, if i want to keep a sense of selfworth i will stay.

Improving things in your surroundings does not equal blindly toeing the line of government. One of the basics of "democracy" is to be able to disagree. 'Ya know - freedom of speach, ever heard of that?

Here in Thailand opponents of Thaksin only exercise their constitutional rights in a democracy, be it within the parliament, or via demonstrations. If this form of democracy is not to your liking, then i would suggest for you to move to Burma. Their sythem of government might suit you better, judging by the position you have taken so far in this discussion.

most of my friends are foreigners, but I do have some thai friends. but you are right, I don't discuss politics with my thai friends.

I see your situation somewhat. and I can sympathize with you.

being poor for generations... how can you improve your situation??

has anyone looked for oil here yet?

maybe there is oil in the south, and nobody knows it yet except malaysia?

but seriously, I love thailand, and like living here. but if a coup occurs, I don't know. I think many foreigners feel this way too.

I think foreign investment is one of your best options to improving the situation here. but you can't get that without a stable political environment.

..the money is coming in now. so, don't screw it up.

if you do, it may take at least another 10 years for you to get the confidence of the world to come in again. look at burma, laos, and cambodia.

[Plus]

Taksin has been told times and times again that giving out loans will not help. He refused to listen to anyone and instead piled more and more loans, cheap houses, taxis, TVs, mobile phones - all in credit.

He might think he cares about those villagers, but in reality he can't even sacrifice his "face" for them. It's always "I'm right, everyone shut up, you idiots".

I mean, he promises to end poverty in three years. Is there anyone who believes in this shit? He just trumpets it for his selfserving political purposes.

Oh, well, Haha believes in everything that comes out of Taksin's mouth. That's settled then.

As for corruption - it's not the good old kickbacks, it's the laws favouring businessmen in government. Tax breaks, new projects for their companies - all above the table (because MPs and Senators cannot be bought, according to Haha).

There have been numerous reports about senators being on a payroll coming from the Senate itself, both on government and opposition lists. And MPs were publicly told to vote along the TRT party lines or else. Some were strongly reprimanded and publicly humiliated for even abstating. Who else, apart from Haha, thinks that they are independent?