Bt50 Million To Be Used To Buy iPads And iPhones For Senators And MPs

[thaicruze]

The government responded. I don't think people here understand what they are saying. They said that some MPs WILL use and want to use tablets for an easy means of communications and staying in touch with the public. Then they went on to say that the complaints will come if some MPs get things and some don't.

What they are saying is that some MPs will use the tablets and want to use them, so of they hand them out to some they have to hand them out to all. Every section has a budget and this is a budget for this purpose. As they said, they are still using hand me down laptops from yesteryear. For communication such as emailing and social media as well as some light work and scheduling things, carrying around a laptop is inconvenient and no longer necessary because an iPad is much more efficient at doing these tasks and they are now things that are quite affordable, so instead of a budget for another batch of shitty laptops; they are upgrading to tablets (and some iPhones I guess). That's basically it.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

If some 60 year old MP who hardly understands how to click a mouse is complaining about this being a waste of money, then so what? Those few aren't going to "get it" anyway. They hold on to the past. The old way of doing things. Bureaucratic and inefficient. More power to them if they want to drag these old hags into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

Edited March 7, 2012 by thaicruze

[whybother]

The government responded. I don't think people here understand what they are saying. They said that some MPs WILL use and want to use tablets for an easy means of communications and staying in touch with the public. Then they went on to say that the complaints will come if some MPs get things and some don't.

What they are saying is that some MPs will use the tablets and want to use them, so of they hand them out to some they have to hand them out to all. Every section has a budget and this is a budget for this purpose. As they said, they are still using hand me down laptops from yesteryear. For communication such as emailing and social media as well as some light work and scheduling things, carrying around a laptop is inconvenient and no longer necessary because an iPad is much more efficient at doing these tasks and they are now things that are quite affordable, so instead of a budget for another batch of shitty laptops; they are upgrading to tablets (and some iPhones I guess). That's basically it.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

If some 60 year old MPs who hardly understand how to click a mouse is complaining about this being a waste of money, then so what? Those few aren't going to "get it" anyway. They hold on to the past. The old way of doing things. Bureaucratic and inefficient. More power to them if they want to drag these old hags into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

At 35,000 baht each?

[thaicruze]

The government responded. I don't think people here understand what they are saying. They said that some MPs WILL use and want to use tablets for an easy means of communications and staying in touch with the public. Then they went on to say that the complaints will come if some MPs get things and some don't.

What they are saying is that some MPs will use the tablets and want to use them, so of they hand them out to some they have to hand them out to all. Every section has a budget and this is a budget for this purpose. As they said, they are still using hand me down laptops from yesteryear. For communication such as emailing and social media as well as some light work and scheduling things, carrying around a laptop is inconvenient and no longer necessary because an iPad is much more efficient at doing these tasks and they are now things that are quite affordable, so instead of a budget for another batch of shitty laptops; they are upgrading to tablets (and some iPhones I guess). That's basically it.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

If some 60 year old MPs who hardly understand how to click a mouse is complaining about this being a waste of money, then so what? Those few aren't going to "get it" anyway. They hold on to the past. The old way of doing things. Bureaucratic and inefficient. More power to them if they want to drag these old hags into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

At 35,000 baht each?

Yes. Around 25,000 for the device and another 10,000 for other stuff like apps as needed. It won't all be spent at once.

It maybe that some request training. That costs money which can be taken out of the budget.

Edited March 7, 2012 by thaicruze

[whybother]

Yes. Around 25,000 for the device and another 10,000 for other stuff like apps as needed. It won't all be spent at once.

It maybe that some request training. That costs money which can be taken out of the budget.

Apps for 10,000 baht? ... even 25,000 baht for the devices? Retail price isn't even that much.

I thought these things were simple to use. Training? Are they going to have someone follow each MP around for a week?

[thaicruze]

Yes. Around 25,000 for the device and another 10,000 for other stuff like apps as needed. It won't all be spent at once.

It maybe that some request training. That costs money which can be taken out of the budget.

Apps for 10,000 baht? ... even 25,000 baht for the devices? Retail price isn't even that much.

I thought these things were simple to use. Training? Are they going to have someone follow each MP around for a week?

If you've never used a device before, you would benefit from a basic how to use training. Some people can't figure out how to turn on any tablet. iPad or any one of them. They don't know you just push the button. Then it says "slide to unlock". They stare at it not knowing what to do. This is the reality of the regular user, most of all when they are older.

So you tell me, what is the retail price for a 64GB 3G iPad?

You just HAVE to know what they are doing with the rest of the money.

You want ME to itemize everything for you. Well let's see.

I calculate somewhere about 10,700 baht extra per device. That's about $350 bucks. You just HAVE to know WHERE this extra money is going.

iWorks for iPad = 900 baht (300 baht each)

I'm sure you can get a list of 10-15 professional business apps and get to 10,000 baht quite easily. I just did 1 and I'm already at 1,000 baht.

Will someone pocket some money? Sure. You tell me 1 government in the world that doesn't.

Oh wait. He wants more proof. Ok

Maybe you buy 1 app for a minister that is involved in real estate development. He deals with architects all the time.

So you get him Architactical Inception = 15,000 baht.

There you go.

Edited March 7, 2012 by thaicruze

[ParadiseLost]

I think it is a good idea. In the US they used to do blackberry. I think iPads and iPhones are a much better idea for government.

If used properly, it can make communication easier. They can also get work done on the go. Reply to emails, edit documents, work in reminders and set up meetings and calendar events, etc etc without being stuck to a computer. All this stuff will sync with iCloud automatically.

It's the 21st century. Get used to it.

Wait - they will actually have to do this themselves? So all those personal secretaries will be out of a job?

I see most of these devices being given to kids and cronies. Of course 'stolen' or 'lost' devices will be replaced at tax payers expense too.

secretaries answer their personal emails? Really?

I see Obama clicking away at his BB all the time. Let's get rid of the White House secretary. Since Obama answers his own personal messages obviously the secretary has absolutely nothing to do.

Where do you guys come from? Seriously.

Where? In my case more than 20 years in the IT industry.

If you think the expenditure is for personal emails then you have validated my argument quite nicely as that is not an acceptable reason.

Each and every MP most definitely has a private secretary, whose job is to do precisely the things listed as reasons for providing such devices. Business email, meeting schedules etc. will still be handled by them so once again I question the justification for providing expensive toys at taxpayer's expense.

Perhaps you think they will fire their secretaries...

One more thing; the White House Secretary is hardly a personal secretary to the President!

[thaicruze]

I think it is a good idea. In the US they used to do blackberry. I think iPads and iPhones are a much better idea for government.

If used properly, it can make communication easier. They can also get work done on the go. Reply to emails, edit documents, work in reminders and set up meetings and calendar events, etc etc without being stuck to a computer. All this stuff will sync with iCloud automatically.

It's the 21st century. Get used to it.

Wait - they will actually have to do this themselves? So all those personal secretaries will be out of a job?

I see most of these devices being given to kids and cronies. Of course 'stolen' or 'lost' devices will be replaced at tax payers expense too.

secretaries answer their personal emails? Really?

I see Obama clicking away at his BB all the time. Let's get rid of the White House secretary. Since Obama answers his own personal messages obviously the secretary has absolutely nothing to do.

Where do you guys come from? Seriously.

Where? In my case more than 20 years in the IT industry.

If you think the expenditure is for personal emails then you have validated my argument quite nicely as that is not an acceptable reason.

Each and every MP most definitely has a private secretary, whose job is to do precisely the things listed as reasons for providing such devices. Business email, meeting schedules etc. will still be handled by them so once again I question the justification for providing expensive toys at taxpayer's expense.

Perhaps you think they will fire their secretaries...

One more thing; the White House Secretary is hardly a personal secretary to the President!

So, why is Obama on his BB all the time? Who provides him with his devices?

And you mean to tell me that if you send a business related email to an MP the reply is from a secretary?

So, if a group of MPs are working on something important and it involves working on a problem and sending emails to each other back and forth that the people who actually are working on the issue are the secretaries? No MP ever answers emails that are related to their work?

You want us to believe this MR IT guru?

I wonder why these MPs don't have a line of secretaries behind them everywhere they go since according to mr bill gates here, they never touch a calendar or a planner or answer any emails.

Edited March 7, 2012 by thaicruze

[ParadiseLost]

So, why is Obama on his BB all the time? Who provides him with his devices?

And you mean to tell me that if you send a business related email to an MP the reply is from a secretary?

So, if a group of MPs are working on something important and it involves working on a problem and sending emails to each other back and forth that the people who actually are working on the issue are the secretaries? No MP ever answers emails that are related to their work?

You want us to believe this MR IT guru?

I wonder why these MPs don't have a line of secretaries behind them everywhere they go since according to mr bill gates here, they never touch a calendar or a planner or answer any emails.

No need to be precocious; I was not attacking you... Your points - are these from personal experience?

President Obama is, well, the president - here we are talking about the entire cabinet. If the topic was PM Yingluk to be provided with an expensive toy I would not bother to comment.

I will venture to say that most likely all official emails are definitely scrutinised by secretaries, with only important matters handled by MPs themselves. Do you have any idea of the sheer volume of such traffic? Of course important decisions are made by the official but in most cases the reply will be sent by his PA or secretary.

Most important matters are handled in the many, many meetings such people attend all day - notes and minutes are taken by a secretary and mailed to all.

As for calendars and planners, well you try to get one of these guys to work with sophisticated software and see the result...

[thaicruze]

So, why is Obama on his BB all the time? Who provides him with his devices?

And you mean to tell me that if you send a business related email to an MP the reply is from a secretary?

So, if a group of MPs are working on something important and it involves working on a problem and sending emails to each other back and forth that the people who actually are working on the issue are the secretaries? No MP ever answers emails that are related to their work?

You want us to believe this MR IT guru?

I wonder why these MPs don't have a line of secretaries behind them everywhere they go since according to mr bill gates here, they never touch a calendar or a planner or answer any emails.

No need to be precocious; I was not attacking you... Your points - are these from personal experience?

President Obama is, well, the president - here we are talking about the entire cabinet. If the topic was PM Yingluk to be provided with an expensive toy I would not bother to comment.

I will venture to say that most likely all official emails are definitely scrutinised by secretaries, with only important matters handled by MPs themselves. Do you have any idea of the sheer volume of such traffic? Of course important decisions are made by the official but in most cases the reply will be sent by his PA or secretary.

Most important matters are handled in the many, many meetings such people attend all day - notes and minutes are taken by a secretary and mailed to all.

As for calendars and planners, well you try to get one of these guys to work with sophisticated software and see the result...

I see. So your solution is that everything is handled by a secretary and keep everyone oblivious to the fact this is the 21st century.

Then open another thread about how the Thai government doesn't embrace technology like us in the west and how much more superior we are.

So you're saying they DO handle emails, but really really important ones out of the hundreds and hundreds mr somchai gets everyday from his thousands of devoted fans.

They do have laptops right? So are you saying they don't use those either? Because they said they did. By your logic they are lying because their secretaries should take care of everything.

[ParadiseLost]

So, why is Obama on his BB all the time? Who provides him with his devices?

And you mean to tell me that if you send a business related email to an MP the reply is from a secretary?

So, if a group of MPs are working on something important and it involves working on a problem and sending emails to each other back and forth that the people who actually are working on the issue are the secretaries? No MP ever answers emails that are related to their work?

You want us to believe this MR IT guru?

I wonder why these MPs don't have a line of secretaries behind them everywhere they go since according to mr bill gates here, they never touch a calendar or a planner or answer any emails.

No need to be precocious; I was not attacking you... Your points - are these from personal experience?

President Obama is, well, the president - here we are talking about the entire cabinet. If the topic was PM Yingluk to be provided with an expensive toy I would not bother to comment.

I will venture to say that most likely all official emails are definitely scrutinised by secretaries, with only important matters handled by MPs themselves. Do you have any idea of the sheer volume of such traffic? Of course important decisions are made by the official but in most cases the reply will be sent by his PA or secretary.

Most important matters are handled in the many, many meetings such people attend all day - notes and minutes are taken by a secretary and mailed to all.

As for calendars and planners, well you try to get one of these guys to work with sophisticated software and see the result...

I see. So your solution is that everything is handled by a secretary and keep everyone oblivious to the fact this is the 21st century.

Then open another thread about how the Thai government doesn't embrace technology like us in the west and how much more superior we are.

So you're saying they DO handle emails, but really really important ones out of the hundreds and hundreds mr somchai gets everyday from his thousands of devoted fans.

They do have laptops right? So are you saying they don't use those either? Because they said they did. By your logic they are lying because their secretaries should take care of everything.

Let me guess - you have an iPad and you really, really love it? That's just fine, but it is not (yet) a device to replace laptops, or pcs - as much as Apple would like you to believe it.

The main problem is upgrading such devices. The iPad3 is eminent, and what happens when there are changes made to vital software that requires a change to the latest model? Apple is trying to turn mobile phones and computing equipment into disposable devices.

You are also forced into Apple's way of thinking and can only use apps they approve of. As a company they are trying to stifle progress by suing anyone who tries to compete - after all how many ways can you flick the screen?

If you have so much faith in one company to decide the future of computing well that is your opinion and you are quite entitled to it but that does not entitle you to say they are the best and only option for the future. If that thinking was applied to motor cars we would still be driving model T Fords.

There are many people using really old pcs and laptops running old versions of Windows and they are able to perform all the important functions they need. I use XP out of personal choice, one day I may move to Windows 7, 8 or whatever follows. Perhaps I will upgrade my memory and processor but it will all be my choice.

Saying these guys need the devices is akin to saying they need Mercedes Benz rather than Toyota - it is all about status, nothing more.

And finally yes, I am saying they will read and write some emails, but their secretaries will still handle most of the mail, not from adoring fans but more likely greedy corporations trying to win their favour and persuade their budget minister to spend money on unnecessary, extravagant gadgets or the like.

[TAWP]

If an MP needs additional technical gizmos then he is free to buy it himself.

No need for the state to cover it.

[ParadiseLost]

I have one more point to add and then I'm done: - If this announcement was that the cabinet ministers, MPs, Senators, hell the entire government was to be issued with the same devices as the children in schools then I would have lauded them for wanting to set an example and to show that what is good for their children is good for them.

Instead they show just how superior, greedy and shallow they really are.

[thaicruze]

If an MP needs additional technical gizmos then he is free to buy it himself.

No need for the state to cover it.

Well. Guess what. They ARE covering it.

[thaicruze]

I have one more point to add and then I'm done: - If this announcement was that the cabinet ministers, MPs, Senators, hell the entire government was to be issued with the same devices as the children in schools then I would have lauded them for wanting to set an example and to show that what is good for their children is good for them.

Instead they show just how superior, greedy and shallow they really are.

They are different devices for different purposes and different users.

[TAWP]

If an MP needs additional technical gizmos then he is free to buy it himself.

No need for the state to cover it.

Well. Guess what. They ARE covering it.

I think you have discovered what we are complaining about.

[thaicruze]

If an MP needs additional technical gizmos then he is free to buy it himself.

No need for the state to cover it.

Well. Guess what. They ARE covering it.

I think you have discovered what we are complaining about.

I think you haven't been reading anything I have typed.

What is your complaining about it accomplishing? It is happening. Period. The end.

[thaicbr]

I think it is a good idea. In the US they used to do blackberry. I think iPads and iPhones are a much better idea for government.

If used properly, it can make communication easier. They can also get work done on the go. Reply to emails, edit documents, work in reminders and set up meetings and calendar events, etc etc without being stuck to a computer. All this stuff will sync with iCloud automatically.

It's the 21st century. Get used to it.

They already have laptop computers supplied by the state. this is just opportunistic. if they want to be MORE mobile they should buy it themselves. just like most other people do.

So you want them to schlep a laptop around? Send and receive emails whenever they can find a wifi signal?

They can buy it themselves. Sure. Nobody is arguing that. The government will spend the million dollars how it wants.

Why would they be 'shleping ' around. Surely they would be working in their Government house office or their home office (both of which they can claim a budget) .

That IS what they SHOULD be doing. WORKING FOR THE PEOPLE OF THAILAND.

[TAWP]

I think you haven't been reading anything I have typed.

What is your complaining about it accomplishing? It is happening. Period. The end.

There is complaint since government waste and misuse of founds should be complained about.

Not doing so would be to fail in our duty as taxpayers.

[thaicruze]

I think you haven't been reading anything I have typed.

What is your complaining about it accomplishing? It is happening. Period. The end.

There is complaint since government waste and misuse of founds should be complained about.

Not doing so would be to fail in our duty as taxpayers.

So, why aren't the English going to protest the same thing done in the UK? Why is it OK for you there but not OK here?

[TAWP]

So, why aren't the English going to protest the same thing done in the UK? Why is it OK for you there but not OK here?

Please don't excuse government waste with pointing at other government waste.

[thaicruze]

So, why aren't the English going to protest the same thing done in the UK? Why is it OK for you there but not OK here?

Please don't excuse government waste with pointing at other government waste.

So it's OK for the MPs "back home" to charge the tax payer for their ipads and macbooks but not here.

Ok. Got it.

It's OK for your house to be a pig pen and you going around the neighborhood criticizing your neighbors for having filthy houses.

The point I was making is that what Thailand is doing has been found back in the UK to be perfectly legal and fine.

Edited March 7, 2012 by thaicruze

[TAWP]

So, why aren't the English going to protest the same thing done in the UK? Why is it OK for you there but not OK here?

Please don't excuse government waste with pointing at other government waste.

So it's OK for the MPs "back home" to charge the tax payer for their ipads and macbooks but not here.

Ok. Got it.

It's OK for your house to be a pig pen and you going around the neighborhood criticizing your neighbors for having filthy houses.

The point I was making is that what Thailand is doing has been found back in the UK to be perfectly legal and fine.

It is the opposite - it isn't ok back home either. But this forum seem to be the wrong place to complain about it. (And I haven't lived nor paid tax back home in many years.)

[Reasonableman]

Amusing that a whole day is spent "flogging the dead horse", i.e., defending the government against people who voice their concerns about wasting taxpayer money, after such strenuous earlier attempts to shut the thread down. This dead horse has legs after all, eh?! BTW, justifying a bad practice with reference to another bad practice is illogical and disingenuous. The fallback to legality as a decider on ethical/moral issues is also a copout. At the end of the day, it is interesting to speculate why you felt you needed to expend so much effort on this topic, one in which you initially expressed so little interest. Interesting.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Reasonableman

[thaicruze]

So, why aren't the English going to protest the same thing done in the UK? Why is it OK for you there but not OK here?

Please don't excuse government waste with pointing at other government waste.

So it's OK for the MPs "back home" to charge the tax payer for their ipads and macbooks but not here.

Ok. Got it.

It's OK for your house to be a pig pen and you going around the neighborhood criticizing your neighbors for having filthy houses.

The point I was making is that what Thailand is doing has been found back in the UK to be perfectly legal and fine.

It is the opposite - it isn't ok back home either. But this forum seem to be the wrong place to complain about it. (And I haven't lived nor paid tax back home in many years.)

You're wrong. It is perfectly legal in the UK and many MPs charge their iPads to be paid by tax payer's money.

In the UK last year about 8 MPs a week charged their iPads and MacBooks to be paid with tax payer's money. Including the prime minister at the time.

Nothing wrong with paying these things with tax payer money.

Edited March 7, 2012 by thaicruze

[thaicruze]

Amusing that a whole day is spent "flogging the dead horse", i.e., defending the government against people who voice their concerns about wasting taxpayer money, after such strenuous earlier attempts to shut the thread down. This dead horse has legs after all, eh?! BTW, justifying a bad practice with reference to another bad practice is illogical and disingenuous. The fallback to legality as a decider on ethical/moral issues is also a copout. At the end of the day, it is interesting to speculate why you felt you needed to expend so much effort on this topic, one in which you initially expressed so little interest. Interesting.

Interestingly interesting. Isnt it?

Call it whatever you want, but clean your house first before you criticize others. That's the point. In case you didn't read it when I said it the first time.

[Reasonableman]

This is my house. And I don't need your approval to voice my opinion. If you don't like what you hear, that's life. Have a nice evening.

Amusing that a whole day is spent "flogging the dead horse", i.e., defending the government against people who voice their concerns about wasting taxpayer money, after such strenuous earlier attempts to shut the thread down. This dead horse has legs after all, eh?! BTW, justifying a bad practice with reference to another bad practice is illogical and disingenuous. The fallback to legality as a decider on ethical/moral issues is also a copout. At the end of the day, it is interesting to speculate why you felt you needed to expend so much effort on this topic, one in which you initially expressed so little interest. Interesting.

Interestingly interesting. Isnt it?

Call it whatever you want, but clean your house first before you criticize others. That's the point. In case you didn't read it when I said it the first time.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Ijustwannateach]

Some posts (and a Poster, at least temporarily) have been removed for trolling and inflammatory posts.

[sparebox2]

Mark already has one.

That will save the Thai tax payer 20,000 Baht.

Or are you suggesting that Mark should carry 2 iPads around?

Edited March 7, 2012 by sparebox2

[GentlemanJim]

I think the budget money will increase in the morning, as Apple are announcing the IPad 3 any minute now.

[oops]

so where is the other 10 million going?

Have seen a nice Louis Vitton case for the iPad2.

Yes, and don't forget they will need extra funds to hire staff to carry it to their cars.....you know the cars....with the motorcycle cops in front and in back some..