Thailand's Sex Workers Don't Want To Be 'Rescued'

[Wallaby]

Not sure why anyone would think they wouldn't be prostitutes if there were viable alternatives. Many western countries have viable alternatives and also half decent govt handouts. Yet still there is a thriving prostitution element.

There are many very very wealthy protitutes in the 'enlightened' western world. They surely aren't doing it for money any more so perhaps there is another reason........they like the money they get for the job they do.

I would think very few of us would go to work if there was a viable alternative ie: win lotto of a couple of million and then find out if I turn up for work the next day. But work is something most of us have to do and most of us would rather not.

The girls are working, simple as that, they are free to do other things if they don't like it.

[Thai at Heart]

No doubt some will always enter this industry. However, if you asked how much salary per month they would "quit" for, I wonder how high it would be.

50k, 80k, 100k?????

Thus, they aren't doing for "pleasure" of the job, but the money, but then how many people work for the pleasure of the job????

Exactly right Thai at Heart, what is the alternative that is offered to be "saved" from their well paid job. Everytime I hear about these poor exploited girls/women I have to smile. The majority are not as stupid as a lot would like to think.

Of course, there certainly are those who are being abused and forced against their will, and these are the people that these organizations should be concentrating on. Give the girls a choice, with a safe passage out of the life if that is what they want.

Go out in the villages and look at the average age of the people out there (probably well over 50 average), and wonder what the opportunities really are for a kid educated in the local village school. Of course, some will get out to go to university, and hopefully onto some kind of decent job, but then when I got a family friend (city living,educated overseas) into a job in a very decent job in a multinational, I was astounded to see that he starting salary was only 14k. Salaries in Thailand are still low even for well educated people, what hope someone who is faced essentially with minimum wage?

I don't blame these girls one bit for doing what they do, but after a long time here, it saddens me that there are so very very many of them, and that situation isn't likely to change one bit in the next few years. The whole attitude has to change to take time to educate all young people to a higher standard, but then there is little point if the economy cannot provide them well paid jobs, and the Thai economy isn't going to open up properly any time soon. Look at what Korea or Singapore have achieved economically in 40 years and see the wealth creation, but it is all based around focussing on educating their people to the highest possible standards.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[MegaMik]

And yes, the sex workers have a choice. Many factories in Thailand complain that it is difficult to find workers.

I can guess the monthly income would be the same..............

Hard to come down from a good income to please the social expectations of the glass towered do-gooders

I really like that expression "glass towered do-gooders" and I have to become to hate them or hate their notion about themselves.

Too many of them in the western world, doing more damage than good in most cases.

[chrisinth]

I would agree that most girls (and guys) in the sex trade don't want to be rescued, but there are some out there that do want and need to be rescued.

Most workers at most other jobs would probably like to be 'rescued.' True story happened to a friend of mine: A dazzling young Burmese sex worker was picked up by a US Christian couple. They got her a special 'missionary' visa (nothing to do with 'missionary position') and took her to tour the US. She was their 'poster girl' and each group of gawking Christians they came to, they would have the Burmese girl recite her 100 word 'victimized' spiel for them. It worked great, and the Christian couple made loads of money from 'donations' - which were promised to the girl's family. The 3rd time the girl complained to the wife about the husband sneaking in to her room at night, the girl was shipped back to Burma, with $20. I've got photocopies of her passport showing the travel stamps.

Now why would that not surprise me?

[OzMick]

"The biggest problem I see is that many of the bar-girls enjoy the high life of their trade so much that they forget that it is only temporary. The smarter ones put some away for the inevitable time when the competition gets to be more attractive."

I wonder what the % of smarter ones there are. 10%? The "high life" becomes an addiction in itself. I always wondered how I'd wind up if I was a young, attractive Thai girl. Probably, I wouldn't reach 30. What happens when a 40 year old working girl hits 45?

Percentages I can't comment on, but quite a few of the older ladies have developed quite good English skills and become cashiers or hotel/resort staff. I suppose you could just as well ask what percentage of Thais think of the future and save regularly.

[Sailfish1]

Where are all the older sex workers that no longer have a body to sell? What happened to them? I'm sure some of the smart ones bought bars and other types of businesses, but for one of them there are probably 100 who spent all their money and have no current income source.

[chrisinth]

And yes, the sex workers have a choice. Many factories in Thailand complain that it is difficult to find workers.

I can guess the monthly income would be the same..............

Hard to come down from a good income to please the social expectations of the glass towered do-gooders

Local chicken factory advertising wanted "3000 workers, 278 baht a day", any takers here?????????

There goes another three bars closed in Pattaya, girls on the way!

[sfbandung]

SOME sex workers don't want to be rescued. I'm sure there are tens of thousands out there that are being exploited / extorted / forced and would love to be rescued.

Perhaps there is a small % who would like to be 'rescued' - yet perhaps there are a greater % of indentured maids, clearing 20 baht a day, forced to work 24/7 for rich Chinese -Thai families who would also like to be 'rescued.' Sex workers, with few exceptions, can walk away if they choose. The #1 reason for sex worker harassment is Christian aid groups motivated by their western puritanical superiority complexes. I had a Christian group wanting to rent my large house. They were planning to do 'improvements' to it - which would have turned it in to a fortress to keep 'rescued sex workers' from having visitors and/or breaking out. I said 'no' to the house rental proposal.

Until these so called Christian's brought there ideas here to Thailand there was no stigma attached to prostitution. They missed that part of the Bible where it says let he who is with out sin cast the first stone.

Not sure about this.

If there is no stigma on prostitution here...why do you get the dirtiest look if you say "som phee nee"?

Why do they call themselves "working girls" instead of ...

Why do some (most?) hide their "profession" from their families?

And in general: if it is "easy money"...why do I not know ONE "working girl" who is not drunk or stoned out of their eyeballs on a daily basis?

Just think for a second: how do Thai-girls/ women go to the beach?!

T-shirt and boxers, right?!

And now: dance in front of total strangers, barely or not dressed!

Get shagged by fat old sweaty drunk and often abusive foreigners, sometimes 4 times a night....

Easy money?

Well....

Most of them dont get it.

They sold their heart and soul, most of them dont even know what you mean, when you mention something crazy like "love"!

And most of them don't get it, that they are having customer now, because they maybe 25 and look 18.

At the rate they use alcohol, drugs and live an excessive live, they will be looking 45, when they reach 30!

Easy money?

No stigma?

I'm not sure where you go. But yes, I've seen girls obviously rat arsed while they're working. I wouldn't go near them. I wouldn't shag a woman of any nationality who I thought didn't know what she was doing, hooker or not. But you've never seen ONE (your caps) "who is not drunk or stoned out of their eyeballs on a daily basis"? They must be dreary establishments where you hang out because it isn't the norm where I've been.

And I have not met ONE (my caps) who openly admit to their family what they are doing. Everyone knows of course, they just don't talk about it.

It's been said here many times, but compare what they do, the conditions and the pay, to working in a rice paddy, or perhaps worse, in a sweatshop in Bangkok.

[spidermike007]

How many sex workers in Thailand pay taxes on their income, which in many cases is much higher than their highly educated "straight job" counterparts...Answer: ZILCH, nada, none, zero.

How many Thais do you know of, who pay taxes on their cash businesses. Everywhere I look, I see cash businesses. Do you think they are part of the Thai mainstream? I would estimate 70% of the economy is done in cash. So what is the difference here? Just another cash business, though the bars, and go go bars may pay some taxes.

[Thai at Heart]

And yes, the sex workers have a choice. Many factories in Thailand complain that it is difficult to find workers.

I can guess the monthly income would be the same..............

Hard to come down from a good income to please the social expectations of the glass towered do-gooders

Local chicken factory advertising wanted "3000 workers, 278 baht a day", any takers here?????????

There goes another three bars closed in Pattaya, girls on the way!

Could look at it as though the bars are saving the girls a lifetime of pulling chicken innards.....

[gamini]

Blaming poverty is rubbish. These girls are lazy and greedy. In many counytries much poorer than Thailand there are very few prostitutes.

[spidermike007]

"Human Trafficking is a crime against humanity. It involves an act of recruiting, transporting, transfering, harbouring or receiving a person through a use of force, coercion or other means, for the purpose of exploiting them." (From: UNODC). This is clearly not the case with most sex workers.

In Germany, prostitution is legal. Human trafficking is not. This article mixed up both.

Again in Germany, you need a work permit to work. If your nationality requires a work permit to work in Germany and you get caught working in prostitution, you will be arrested for working without a work permit. The same would apply for Burmese workers in Thailand.

And yes, the sex workers have a choice. Many factories in Thailand complain that it is difficult to find workers.

Yes, but until the socio-economic structure changes, or evolves here, what is going to change? Many of the university educated Thais that I know complain that working girls are lazy, because they do not want to work a 70 hour per week job in a factory, for 7,000 baht per month. Who can survive on that? Many of these women have one or two children, and poor families. What does 7,000 baht per month do for them, when they have to pay for rent, food, etc, and then try to send something home? One can see why so many choose to use their bodies to make some money. The difference in earnings is so dramatic, and then there is the hope of meeting a "rich" fareng. Very, very few here are doing it because they are being forced to do it, unless you take into account their poverty, then that station in life becomes the slavedriver. Little more.

[nosatisfaction]

monthly salary paid according to skill level.

You mean they have training programs and performance agreements, too? It appears much has changed. I'll never look at Pattaya walking street in the same way again.

or sukhumvit soi 3 & 4 , soi Cowboy and Pat pong

listing not finished but I have to save my fingers for better issues

[chrisinth]

All my previous posts have been directed at the girls/boys working the commercial areas of Thailand, servicing, for want of a better word, the needs of the foreigner whether he/she is a tourist or long stayer here.

There is of course a darker side to the game that the majority of foreigners don't see in this country, and that is the establishments setup to service the local workers and travellers around the country. this is generally known as "Thai style" or "Up Country".

I hear all the time when people are transitting comments to the effect of "What a boring place, no go-go's, no girls, no nightlife". There could be nothing further from the truth, but it is done "Thai Style" and not so much in the open.

These are the places where the exploitation happens IMHO, and these are the places that need to be concentrated on by these organizations.

Ask your Thai friends about the dark side of Rayong (as an example and certainly not by itself); you may be surprised and your points of view may radically change to what happens in LOS.

[sirchai]

Shouldn't they all have a work permit, paying in social security and having a fully insurance?

[SICHONSTEVE]

How many sex workers in Thailand pay taxes on their income, which in many cases is much higher than their highly educated "straight job" counterparts...Answer: ZILCH, nada, none, zero.

Agree. And that's not likely to change any more than the traffic laws are going to be enforced and for the same reason.

They cannot pay tax as the sex trade is currently an illegal profession!!!!

Another thing, if you could get away without paying tax, would you not????

[Reasonableman]

monthly salary paid according to skill level.

You mean they have training programs and performance agreements, too? It appears much has changed. I'll never look at Pattaya walking street in the same way again.

or sukhumvit soi 3 & 4 , soi Cowboy and Pat pong

listing not finished but I have to save my fingers for better issues

Satisfaction can be found in all manner of means

[OzMick]

SOME sex workers don't want to be rescued. I'm sure there are tens of thousands out there that are being exploited / extorted / forced and would love to be rescued.

Perhaps there is a small % who would like to be 'rescued' - yet perhaps there are a greater % of indentured maids, clearing 20 baht a day, forced to work 24/7 for rich Chinese -Thai families who would also like to be 'rescued.' Sex workers, with few exceptions, can walk away if they choose. The #1 reason for sex worker harassment is Christian aid groups motivated by their western puritanical superiority complexes. I had a Christian group wanting to rent my large house. They were planning to do 'improvements' to it - which would have turned it in to a fortress to keep 'rescued sex workers' from having visitors and/or breaking out. I said 'no' to the house rental proposal.

Until these so called Christian's brought there ideas here to Thailand there was no stigma attached to prostitution. They missed that part of the Bible where it says let he who is with out sin cast the first stone.

Not sure about this.

If there is no stigma on prostitution here...why do you get the dirtiest look if you say "som phee nee"?

Why do they call themselves "working girls" instead of ...

Why do some (most?) hide their "profession" from their families?

And in general: if it is "easy money"...why do I not know ONE "working girl" who is not drunk or stoned out of their eyeballs on a daily basis?

Just think for a second: how do Thai-girls/ women go to the beach?!

T-shirt and boxers, right?!

And now: dance in front of total strangers, barely or not dressed!

Get shagged by fat old sweaty drunk and often abusive foreigners, sometimes 4 times a night....

Easy money?

Well....

Most of them dont get it.

They sold their heart and soul, most of them dont even know what you mean, when you mention something crazy like "love"!

And most of them don't get it, that they are having customer now, because they maybe 25 and look 18.

At the rate they use alcohol, drugs and live an excessive live, they will be looking 45, when they reach 30!

Easy money?

No stigma?

A man with so many questions and so few answers.

Why do they not consider themselves prostitutes? Because they have the right of refusal, and to take those and how many they are willing to accept.

why keep it from their families? Because they want to move home sometime, and in Thailand (as elsewhere) a man who has many partners is a butterfly or a stud, whereas a woman is a slut or whore.

Why don't you know one bar-girl not drunk or stoned nightly? The class of bar you frequent. In EVERY bar I frequent drugs are banned. Young people with money in a bar, being offered free drinks - you expect abstinence? Does it happen in the village?

Some girls wear swimsuits, but they are expensive. None fancy sunburn or a tan.

Are you that old that you dislike shagging 4 times a night, or are you suggesting 4 customers @ B500 up? The decision is HERS.

Premature aging from burning the candle at both ends. My mum warned me about that.

[SICHONSTEVE]

monthly salary paid according to skill level.

You mean they have training programs and performance agreements, too? It appears much has changed. I'll never look at Pattaya walking street in the same way again.

or sukhumvit soi 3 & 4 , soi Cowboy and Pat pong

listing not finished but I have to save my fingers for better issues

Satisfaction can be found in all manner of means

NOT by the Rolling Stones it can't!!!!.

[atyclb]

monthly salary paid according to skill level.

You mean they have training programs and performance agreements, too? It appears much has changed. I'll never look at Pattaya walking street in the same way again.

Skill level / motivation based; would mean a huge cut in salary for the majority.

[bigbamboo]

Prostitution is ILLEGAL in Thailand, why are seeing a report about a subject that by the law of the land does not exist and is controlled by the corrupt police farce.

We could start talking about the rights of thieves, the rights of drug dealers, the right and conditions of people selling knock off goods.

When there is a round up of Prostitutes they are paraded around in the press for all to see of course they will "go along" with whatever the police want to say to save face, especially if they are under the legal age for consensual sex.

In short my point is - legalize prostitution, and whilst your at it legalize marijuana and make tobacco illegal.

Why make tobacco illegal? That'd make a lot of sense, not..... every time someone wants a smoke they get smashed. May as well make alcohol illegal as well then, only that didn't work either once, did it?

[jobsworth]

Be careful though, the rescue Mafia is quite powerful, they protect hundreds of millions of dollars on income in donations and cheap labor.

You are very brave to make such a statement. It is true.

Your life could be threatened or you could be set up as a pedophile for saying this.

These people have an army of tourist volunteers in all the tourist centers like Pattaya and Phuket.

They stake out the beaches and the restaurants. It is called gang stalking.

It is unlikely that these do gooders understand what they are involved in.

[newsweird]

A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.

Deal with it

[atyclb]

Blaming poverty is rubbish. These girls are lazy and greedy. In many counytries much poorer than Thailand there are very few prostitutes.

Greed and laziness, along with cheating, corruption, amorality, superficiality, image over substance, and lack of integrity/honor already exist at all levels of society . Oh, I forgot hypocrisy. To be fair there are many extremely nice/ lovely people also.

These girls decisions (assuming they are not coerced) really conform with societal values (hypocrisy removed)

[sfbandung]

Blaming poverty is rubbish. These girls are lazy and greedy. In many counytries much poorer than Thailand there are very few prostitutes.

Are you for real? How stunningly judgemental.

Where are there "very few prostitutes" in poor countries? And I mean poor countries where tourists go, not some freezing outpost somewhere.

Poor country + Pretty girls + Tourists = Thriving prostitution. Without exception.

[4evermaat]

SOME sex workers don't want to be rescued. I'm sure there are tens of thousands out there that are being exploited / extorted / forced and would love to be rescued.

Why are you sure? All that I see or read about is the opposite.

The opposite? Do you mean there are a couple of million that are being exploited / extorted / forced etc?

I would agree that most girls (and guys) in the sex trade don't want to be rescued, but there are some out there that do want and need to be rescued.

Like in every country in Asia, girls in the sex trade in Laos, Burma or Thailand are part of extended families. These families are struggling with lack of income and are naturally happy to receive the money and presents provided by the girl. But questions are not asked regarding where the money is coming from and more often than not the truth is kept from older persons in the family, who would be too hurt or would find the humiliation unbearable. Such a profession is regarded as one more of the indignities and degradations imposed by poverty.

Actually, Asian "regular" marriages are much more traditional than in the Western "pretend to like you until married" or "legalized prostitution," in the sense that woman and man have predefined roles. It's not uncommon to give a woman you are mating with your money for one reason or another. This is completely natural. The women actually don't want to compete with men for jobs that are traditionally manly.

I don't really blame the East or the West for how they run their operations, just that we respect how each of them operate and make a choice. We cant assume that everyone else in the world victimizes themselves the same way we might victimize our-self. Especially Thai people like their freedom. Not something guaranteed in writing, but de-facto freedom to do absolutely nothing if they don't want to. Or go sell their bodies (openly) if they want to. Not everyone wants to be Westernized and thank goodness.

[Beetlejuice]

Blaming poverty is rubbish. These girls are lazy and greedy. In many counytries much poorer than Thailand there are very few prostitutes.

Yes, I agree with that.

With many they see this as an easy alternative than by being under the pressures of employment in the legitimate industries. This I believe in the main reasons these girls enter into prostitution.

Just take a look on the Internet and see for yourselves how many women are willing and eager participants of the porn and sex industries. There is certainly no shortage of them. They appear in all shapes, sizes, ages, races, nationalities and from all walks of life. I would very much like to see some official statistics of how many women worldwide are involved in the flesh business.

The media and certain organisations would have us believe that the majority of these women are victims of abuse, come from underprivileged backgrounds and the victims of the sexual desires of men. This is simply not the fact.

[bigbamboo]

The biggest problem I see is that many of the bar-girls enjoy the high life of their trade so much that they forget that it is only temporary. The smarter ones put some away for the inevitable time when the competition gets to be more attractive.

I have a good (and once VERY close) friend who retired at 40 and returned to the home village where she is quite the little capitalist, with a nice house and a couple of businesses. Who should sneer at her success through hard work?

Not me.

A lesson here for many Thais. She got off her back.....eventually.... and worked hard for an honest living.

[tropo]

Legalize it!

It's hard to believe, living in Pattaya, that it is illegal.

[nikster]

How many sex workers in Thailand pay taxes on their income, which in many cases is much higher than their highly educated "straight job" counterparts...Answer: ZILCH, nada, none, zero.

I guess the thing is, sex for sale is morally wrong in Thailand and morals SELL in politics. Even though nobody adheres to these morals - neither the voters, nor the politicians - but that's besides the point. Morals = votes. Put it another way, there would be no political gain, and a lot of political loss trying to legalize it. So nobody will even make an attempt.