Crackdown On Land Owned By Foreign Residents

[Khun Jean]

I was unaware that all contracts between husband and wife are dissolved when married. Would that mean that it's impossible to have a pre-numtual contact signed and enforced here?

I am only listed as the lien holder on the land so that my name is as well listen on the land dead in case someone unfortunate happens to my wife. My intention was never to try and sue my wife over who had proper rights on the land but rather insure that the land stays in our family god-forbid something tragic should occur.

Thank you for your insight.

Actually the 'sin somros', and 'sin suan tua' is a kind of prenuptial.

Everything owned before marriage stays with that person.

Even gifts to one person during marriage will stay with that person.

Once married then everything new is shared.

[Nisa]

Still don't see how allowing permanent residents to own a block of land is a bad idea.

I don't think it is a bad idea either but it really doesn't do anything to help Thais or Thailand. Thailand is not looking for immigration and in fact the opposite is true. Remember Thailand is a land of exceptions and for those few foreigners they actually may want residing here, exceptions can be made.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Nisa

[Beetlejuice]

Lock up and then deport tens of thousands (many tens) of (mostly) honest openminded useful and generally quite good people, who are often caring for children ( mostly Thai children) , who may be partially supporting other familymembers . . . Who are good for the Thai ecconomy, mostly bringing a lot of good cold cash into the country on a regular basis . . . And think about it 30% of even Pattayas beach front land, no way . . .

Yea, yea, fine, but we have heard all this before, how the farang is supporting all these Thai people, propping up the Thai economy and without them how the Thai economy will suffer and so many Thai people will lose out.

The fact is that the law is the law and these are created to be of benefit to Thailand, too bad for some if they don`t agree with them or do not suit they’re lifestyles or requirements.

There have even been posters on here that openly flaunt the fact they are the financial backers of land and property in Thailand, so I estimate that most of what has been stated is indeed mostly true.

I think clamping down on these illegals is a good idea, that of course being if the Thai authorities seriously intend to enforce the laws and this doesn’t transpire into just another hollow warning? At the same time they should also delve into the foreign ownerships of businesses and bars in Thailand.

The simple solution regarding those that wish to settle here, is to strictly abide by the laws of Thailand, cover yourselves in all aspects and don`t attempt to bend the rules thinking no one will notice.

At the end of the day, the actions of those that abuse the system has a knock on affect for those who do strictly abide by the laws and regulations. It is the law abiders who are actually the sorts of foreigners that the majority of Thais prefer to have stay in their country and indeed so do many foreigners living here, including myself.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Reasonableman]

Have you got a mobile phone number we can contact, then, to get the exceptions moving along? ;-) [just joking!]

Still don't see how allowing permanent residents to own a block of land is a bad idea.

I don't think it is a bad idea either but it really doesn't do anything to help Thais or Thailand. Thailand is not looking for immigration and in fact the opposite is true. Remember Thailand is a land of exceptions and for those few foreigners they actually may want residing here, exceptions can be made.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Khun Jean]

Have you got a mobile phone number we can contact, then, to get the exceptions moving along? ;-)

Still don't see how allowing permanent residents to own a block of land is a bad idea.

I don't think it is a bad idea either but it really doesn't do anything to help Thais or Thailand. Thailand is not looking for immigration and in fact the opposite is true. Remember Thailand is a land of exceptions and for those few foreigners they actually may want residing here, exceptions can be made.

I think you have to be in contact with a large bank account first before trying the phone.

[bigbamboo]

I was unaware that all contracts between husband and wife are dissolved when married. Would that mean that it's impossible to have a pre-numtual contact signed and enforced here?

I am only listed as the lien holder on the land so that my name is as well listen on the land dead in case someone unfortunate happens to my wife. My intention was never to try and sue my wife over who had proper rights on the land but rather insure that the land stays in our family god-forbid something tragic should occur.

Thank you for your insight.

Actually the 'sin somros', and 'sin suan tua' is a kind of prenuptial.

Everything owned before marriage stays with that person.

Even gifts to one person during marriage will stay with that person.

Once married then everything new is shared.

That's correct. Thai law is essentially no different to western law when it comes to divorce except that a foreigner cannot own any land purchased. He can however demand a share of it's value and bear in mind he is also liable for his share of any debts/mortgage accrued too. In the event of the death of a spouse he must sell any land within one year or have it sold for him by the authorities at auction (not a good idea).

[oldsailor35]

1/3 of the land? Right. Tell me another one.

Gosh, maybe people who own 1/3 of the land are indeed vaguely related in some distant way to some foreigner or another (or even married), but if you're going to start making too close a degree of separation with a foreigner grounds for invalidating the right to own land, some pretty highly placed folks are going to be in trouble- lots of the 'highest-so' Thais have foreign connections.

If they really did follow this through then you can bet only the small people will get troubled. The rich and connected will buy their way out as always.

"give rewards to people who help police arrest those who break the law."

I assume they mean report offenders rather than physically help the police arrest them. Shouldn't be a problem finding these offenders as they must know who they are to be able to work out the figures. It's a bit ironic trying to arrest people for doing something they can't do so haven't done but happen to know, live with or are married to someone who is Thai and owns some land while at the same time desperately trying to avoid a prison sentence for someone who while prime minister, abused his power to help his wife buy public land at auction.

That is not correct ! She actually made i bid for that land against 4 other bidders and hers was the highest tender.

The PM then went to the Bank of Thailand to get a ruling as to wether it would be out of order if he signed the paperwork, and was told there was nothing wrong with that whatsoever provided the tendering business was above board ! When the army had the coup, they used this to fool everybody naieve enough to listen to them and get a conviction against Thaksin. The court was a coup formed court set up by the army to get the conviction. So get the facts right next time.

[Nisa]

Still don't see how allowing permanent residents to own a block of land is a bad idea.

I don't think it is a bad idea either but it really doesn't do anything to help Thais or Thailand. Thailand is not looking for immigration and in fact the opposite is true. Remember Thailand is a land of exceptions and for those few foreigners they actually may want residing here, exceptions can be made.

Have you got a mobile phone number we can contact, then, to get the exceptions moving along? ;-)

That number is restricted to those given exceptions.

I all seriousness, I agree with you in terms of allowing foreigners to buy limited amounts of land if they qualify (Thai family etc.) but what I keep coming back to is the logic of why would Thailand allow such a law in terms of what benefit does it serve Thais and Thailand.

Trust me I would love nothing more than to own a house with my Thai wife but I also realize if foreigners buying land in Thailand was not restricted then prices would be just like they are in the West. So, I like you idea of qualifying and limitations but why would the government want to do this? How does it help Thais or Thailand? I don't see any major negative impacts except for of course there would be lots of people lying to obtain land rights here and there would be some areas of Thailand that would become known as Farang Town but nothing significantly negative but on the other hand, I can think of nothing positive to encourage Thailand to allow this.

[Theoutsider]

1/3 of the land? Right. Tell me another one.

Gosh, maybe people who own 1/3 of the land are indeed vaguely related in some distant way to some foreigner or another (or even married), but if you're going to start making too close a degree of separation with a foreigner grounds for invalidating the right to own land, some pretty highly placed folks are going to be in trouble- lots of the 'highest-so' Thais have foreign connections.

If they really did follow this through then you can bet only the small people will get troubled. The rich and connected will buy their way out as always.

"give rewards to people who help police arrest those who break the law."

I assume they mean report offenders rather than physically help the police arrest them. Shouldn't be a problem finding these offenders as they must know who they are to be able to work out the figures. It's a bit ironic trying to arrest people for doing something they can't do so haven't done but happen to know, live with or are married to someone who is Thai and owns some land while at the same time desperately trying to avoid a prison sentence for someone who while prime minister, abused his power to help his wife buy public land at auction.

That is not correct ! She actually made i bid for that land against 4 other bidders and hers was the highest tender.

The PM then went to the Bank of Thailand to get a ruling as to wether it would be out of order if he signed the paperwork, and was told there was nothing wrong with that whatsoever provided the tendering business was above board ! When the army had the coup, they used this to fool everybody naieve enough to listen to them and get a conviction against Thaksin. The court was a coup formed court set up by the army to get the conviction. So get the facts right next time.

You can't say that.

[Reasonableman]

I can think of a whole host of reasons, but it will have to wait for another day, cos it's time for some shut-eye. An interesting topic, that we should pick up again very soon. Thanks for the discussion. zzzz

[oldsailor35]

I can recall a couple of years ago, a top ranking politician saying that if a Thai bought a property with money given to her by a Falang husband or boyfriend and it could be proven. Then that property could be confiscated by the government.

[Nisa]

I can recall a couple of years ago, a top ranking politician saying that if a Thai bought a property with money given to her by a Falang husband or boyfriend and it could be proven. Then that property could be confiscated by the government.

Bad translation / reporting or you are not recalling the statement or its meaning correctly.

There is nothing wrong with a Thai person buying property with money they received from a farang. However it is against the law, for the most part, for foreigners to own land in Thailand. So, a Thai buying land in their name for a foreigner is illegal regardless of whose money or where the money came from. IMO, you can can complain as much as you want about the law but given there is a law then it seems logical you risk confiscation of the land if caught breaking the law as opposed to officials saying, "ah shucks you beat us and you get to keep the illegally purchased land"

If you come to a foreign land and break the law and make illegal investments in the country, I can't see complaining if you lose your investments.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Nisa

[letitbe]

I say we first petition our governments to allow our Thai wives and girlfriends the same easy access into our home countries as Thailand allows us. ;-)

[bigbamboo]

I can recall a couple of years ago, a top ranking politician saying that if a Thai bought a property with money given to her by a Falang husband or boyfriend and it could be proven. Then that property could be confiscated by the government.

Bad translation / reporting or you are not recalling the statement or its meaning correctly.

There is nothing wrong with a Thai person buying property with money they received from a farang. However it is against the law, for the most part, for foreigners to own land in Thailand. So, a Thai buying land in their name for a foreigner is illegal regardless of whose money or where the money came from. IMO, you can can complain as much as you want about the law but given there is a law then it seems logical you risk confiscation of the land if caught breaking the law as opposed to officials saying, "ah shucks you beat us and you get to keep the illegally purchased land"

If you come to a foreign land and break the law and make illegal investments in the country, I can't see complaining if you lose your investments.

I can remember that story and it was and still is confusing. Logically Nisa must be right otherwise every Thai wife and her farang husband and family who live in a house they have bought would likely be turfed out. Where is the average Thai lady going to get for example three million baht in cash to buy a house and be able to prove where she got the money. A gift from her policeman uncle, a rich politician daddy who just happened to have a large chunk of spare cash lying around the house and she cannot say she earned it without admiting to tax dodging? So the politician must have been misquoted.... or drunk.

Edited March 13, 2012 by bigbamboo

[jackinbkk]

This is a joke. It is amazing Thailand can so openly attack foreigners aka aliens like this. Give us your money and get out seems to be the message. Truly amazing. I'm still in my 20's but I don't think i'll be aiming to buy land and live in Thailand long term. I'll keep it as just holidays.

[Nisa]

This is a joke. It is amazing Thailand can so openly attack foreigners aka aliens like this. Give us your money and get out seems to be the message. Truly amazing. I'm still in my 20's but I don't think i'll be aiming to buy land and live in Thailand long term. I'll keep it as just holidays.

Given your future intentions, it sounds like their strategy is paying off just the way they want

[monkfish]

Developers have no land to build on so the law may eventually have to be put in action.

But anyway will only effect those who bought large amounts of prime development land for investment purposes.

If you have small plot just for private dwelling don't worry it's too small for a condo and developers don't want it.

[Nisa]

Anybody know anything about the law that allows people to claim ownership of property that they have squatted on or occupied for a certain period of time? I know this is a fairly common thing in Thailand and many families have gained the rights to property from private/business properties to government land where they have lived for a certain period without any eviction notice. Just curious if those laws would apply to an alien who took up residency on some remote patch of land for the prescribed time period and if he/she would be granted the land title and possibly citizenship ... highly doubtful but these sort of old laws sometimes have loopholes like this in them.

There is a name for this type of land acquisition but it is escaping me now. I think many countries have or had these types of laws on their books at one time or another but it is just hard to find a place in most countries where you will not be run off if you set up a residence on somebody else's property let alone even build one without a permit.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Nisa

[submaniac]

^^

The legal term is "adverse possession". I am 99% sure that it does not exist in Thailand...if someone is squatting on land they are doing so illegally and can be evicted. The doctrine of adverse possession developed from British common law where the most valuable commodity was land, and it was not to be wasted. Thai law is not based upon British common law.

[MAJIC]

Everyone who builds or buys a house in Thailand,should understand: that circumventing legalities,and setting up Companies,to buy a house,buying property on leases,and in a spouses name, and other legal means to further,"so called ownership", is a risky business,and skating on thin ice,at best.

Laws can be changed at any time,depending on the current Government in Power,right now the present Government dosn't seem particularly pro Farang,and once they start talking about Farangs owning more land than Thais,should give out some serious signals,that their is animosity and unrest in the Country,towards Foreigners,as i'm sure many of us have noticed a distinct attitude,and change towards us in recent years.

Maybe I'm wrong,but this is just the kind of Nationalistic Wildcard,Unstable, Government that needs to constantly pander to the whims of the have nots,and just because there has been talk about crackdowns on land owned by Farangs several times before,doesn't mean it won't happen one day.

As many Posters have said: Gird your loins,Renting, really is the one, and only way,and the bonus is if things go wrong,you can walk away,from other problems as well.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MAJIC

[MaiChai]

Most interesting part of the Phuket Gazette article:

she also urged laws to punish nominees and deport any foreigners who do wrong

Whether they follow through on any of this remains to be seen, but I for one would not want to have bought any land, houses or other property here through the dodgy company route.

Me too. One day it will all go pear shaped. Bend the rules and one day they will just come and take it back. I don't trust them. I have also had alot of experience with legal wrangles here. Better to rent or buy a condo. If you rent you can transplant yourself somewhere else very easily...

The only thing stopping them for taking land back I believe is foreign investor confidence. If you take back land from foreigners, what will happen to foreign investment (eg like the Japanese manufacturers)? Are they going to snatch back the land used for the large car factories? It would send all the wrong signals abroad and you would see foreign companies loose confidence, reduce risk and move to other countries.

I also believe the numbers are much exaggerated. Most of the land is owned by the Thai rich and loan sharks. The big evil for small land holders is loan sharks keeping land titles not foreigners buying land. I would say most foreigners only buy the land they need; typically enough to build a house and possibly a small holding for a small farm (foreigner wants to play farmer with his Thai wife).

Edited March 13, 2012 by MaiChai

[irlguy1]

So after hundreds of posts in this topic I just have one question....

Is now a good time to buy (give) a small piece of land to my gf

Seriously though I am thinking about buying a plot now as a start for the future. A nice piece of land has become available near the family home and as I plan on moving there in a few years and want to build a house I am considering my options.

Yes I know I can't own it but looking at going the usefruct route. Only problem is I don't live there at the moment so don't even know how to go about everything.

How do I organise the paperwork if not in Thailand ? Is it expensive and feasible to get a legal firm to organise it.

Yes I am aware my gf could take the money and run so please no cynical comments I know the risk but trust her completely to do the right thing. I just need to know what that thing is and how to do it 555

[Carib]

Anybody know anything about the law that allows people to claim ownership of property that they have squatted on or occupied for a certain period of time? I know this is a fairly common thing in Thailand and many families have gained the rights to property from private/business properties to government land where they have lived for a certain period without any eviction notice. Just curious if those laws would apply to an alien who took up residency on some remote patch of land for the prescribed time period and if he/she would be granted the land title and possibly citizenship ... highly doubtful but these sort of old laws sometimes have loopholes like this in them.

There is a name for this type of land acquisition but it is escaping me now. I think many countries have or had these types of laws on their books at one time or another but it is just hard to find a place in most countries where you will not be run off if you set up a residence on somebody else's property let alone even build one without a permit.

Here some info about title deeds and squatter rights

http://usa.siam-legal.com/property-thailand/title-deeds.php

[Jayman]

Here some info about title deeds and squatter rights

http://usa.siam-lega...title-deeds.php

From that link..

Under Thai law, squatters who live on another person’s land without permission can eventually claim ownership of the parcel if the land’s rightful owner of does not evict them. A Chanote title deed gives land owners 10 years evict squatters from their land before they lose their ownership.

[submaniac]

^^

Great. See what the website also says about creating a Thai company and having the land purchased in the company's name. (click on "property section").

Re: squatter's rights please see here:

http://www.thaivisa....uatters-rights/

Edited March 13, 2012 by submaniac

[submaniac]

Folks, there has been so much conflicting information being spread about what can and cannot be done legally in Thailand. For goodness sakes don't make an important decision because "well that's what one Thavisa poster said" or "well this is what it said on that internet article". I am linking an English language version of the Thai land act. If you have any questions please feel free to read the law yourself:

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/Laws/property-law-land-code-act.html

[JGV]

Xenophobic or just want to keep their greed for themselves

JGV

[rogerman]

This thread has once again proven to be a winner showing how little Farangs know...... Does anyone actually know that Americans can actually own 100% of land purchased?.....Now there was this pact signed so long ago.......Oh why bother, it's a waste of breath talking to farangs anyway

[chooka]

This thread has once again proven to be a winner showing how little Farangs know...... Does anyone actually know that Americans can actually own 100% of land purchased?.....Now there was this pact signed so long ago.......Oh why bother, it's a waste of breath talking to farangs anyway

What you have failed to recognise is that not all farangs are American, there are actually other countries outside the borders of the U.S where people live, places like Australia (it's an Island down south) people from these countries fall into the farang category also.

[Reasonableman]

This thread has once again proven to be a winner showing how little Farangs know...... Does anyone actually know that Americans can actually own 100% of land purchased?.....Now there was this pact signed so long ago.......Oh why bother, it's a waste of breath talking to farangs anyway

This is not a novel remark. It has been discussed above, and if you had taken the time to read all the 390 or so posts, you would have known that.

If you have anything new and authoritative to add, it would be very welcome, I'm sure.