Thai Navy Torpedoes Bt7.6-Billion Submarine Project

[airconsult]

Bit of a bargain price.... but I suspect the problem was the estimated useful life of 10-15 years even though they had been refurbished (and depends on parts supply as well I guess).

eg. The RAN (Royal Australian Navy) spent 5 billion AUD (160 billion THB) building the Collins Class (6 submarines) and a projected life of 30 years in-service.

http://en.wikipedia....class_submarine

Their replacement program has already started for delivery in 2025 for 12 subs with an estimated budget of 25 billion AUD (800 billion thb).

I put them in, as apart from the USN prowling around, the RAN is the closest large Navy.

Edited March 14, 2012 by airconsult

[belg]

they need the subs ... for the next floodsssssssssssssssss

[ratcatcher]

Surely if Thailand was threatened by a major naval power like Burma or Cambodia, wouldn't Uncle Sam's boys show up, if they weren't already R&R ing in Patters?

Plus I believe the USN has a new presence in Singapore?

[metisdead]

A post containing false/incorrect information has been removed.

[DP25]

I don't think relying on the US is always the best idea. They may not get involved in a regional conflict. Is the US going to intervene between ASEAN nations, or in a conflict involving China? You don't want to be like the Philippines, which has virtually no navy so the only thing they can do is hope that the US rescues them if China comes, while Vietnam and Malaysia have modern submarines and could at least make a fight of it.

Thailand is going to get some eventually, not getting these cheap German subs just means they will be spending a lot more on new subs in the future. Thailand had the chance to spend 7.6 billion baht on 4 used German submarines. Malaysia recently spent 54 billion baht (including parts and torpedoes) on 2 new submarines from France. Better to get cheap ones now, train on them for 15 years, then get new ones (or even build them) in the future if they need them

Edited March 14, 2012 by DP25

[GentlemanJim]

Well as a short term fix, why not get one of these Big Boys Toys, a snip at $78 Mill, and at weekends they could do a roaring trade hiring it out to smugglers as well Wish I had a spare $78 mill myself, the order would be in next week. Imagine the fun you could have in one of these. Anyone want to start a syndicate

http://www.ussubmari...oenix_1000.php3

Edited to add, I have just read the technical spec, I really really want one! Must get my son to do the Euro Lottery for me.

Edited March 14, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[JAG]

If they are worried about the neighbours getting submarines, surely the best answer is to invest in some effective anti submarine surface ships?

[OzMick]

Bit of a bargain price.... but I suspect the problem was the estimated useful life of 10-15 years even though they had been refurbished (and depends on parts supply as well I guess).

eg. The RAN (Royal Australian Navy) spent 5 billion AUD (160 billion THB) building the Collins Class (6 submarines) and a projected life of 30 years in-service.

http://en.wikipedia....class_submarine

Their replacement program has already started for delivery in 2025 for 12 subs with an estimated budget of 25 billion AUD (800 billion thb).

I put them in, as apart from the USN prowling around, the RAN is the closest large Navy.

Ummm..............the People's Liberation Army Navy is both much larger and much closer.

[Soutpeel]

I cannot see them actually operating a submarine.

Not in the gulf of Thailand at least...Average water depth runs 250' to 275' deep...these is so much O&G infastructure on seabed mid-gulf that they will start tearing up pipelines and hitting sub-sea well heads (which typically stand around 6m proud of the seabed)

Would not be a wise move to try and transit through all that lot.

[Buchholz]

I cannot see them actually operating a submarine.

Not in the gulf of Thailand at least...Average water depth runs 250' to 275' deep...these is so much O&G infastructure on seabed mid-gulf that they will start tearing up pipelines and hitting sub-sea well heads (which typically stand around 6m proud of the seabed)

Would not be a wise move to try and transit through all that lot.

Almost makes one wonder how the submarines that do travel through the Gulf of Thailand operate.

[airconsult]

Bit of a bargain price.... but I suspect the problem was the estimated useful life of 10-15 years even though they had been refurbished (and depends on parts supply as well I guess).

eg. The RAN (Royal Australian Navy) spent 5 billion AUD (160 billion THB) building the Collins Class (6 submarines) and a projected life of 30 years in-service.

http://en.wikipedia....class_submarine

Their replacement program has already started for delivery in 2025 for 12 subs with an estimated budget of 25 billion AUD (800 billion thb).

I put them in, as apart from the USN prowling around, the RAN is the closest large Navy.

Ummm..............the People's Liberation Army Navy is both much larger and much closer.

Yes, but by 400nm only.

And how would you know what they spent on anything??? So not useful as an example of expenditure on subs.

Besides - China bought Thailand long ago

Edited March 15, 2012 by airconsult

[Soutpeel]

I cannot see them actually operating a submarine.

Not in the gulf of Thailand at least...Average water depth runs 250' to 275' deep...these is so much O&G infastructure on seabed mid-gulf that they will start tearing up pipelines and hitting sub-sea well heads (which typically stand around 6m proud of the seabed)

Would not be a wise move to try and transit through all that lot.

Almost makes one wonder how the submarines that do travel through the Gulf of Thailand operate.

Very carefully I suspect, If wanting to transit north and stay in thai water they would have be coming up the west side of the gulf, and would have to come through a bottleneck, ie pretty close to the coast 15-20miles off Nakon Si Thammamrat, coming up the east side would in end up in Cambodian water.

[airconsult]

I cannot see them actually operating a submarine.

Not in the gulf of Thailand at least...Average water depth runs 250' to 275' deep...these is so much O&G infastructure on seabed mid-gulf that they will start tearing up pipelines and hitting sub-sea well heads (which typically stand around 6m proud of the seabed)

Would not be a wise move to try and transit through all that lot.

Almost makes one wonder how the submarines that do travel through the Gulf of Thailand operate.

Very carefully I suspect, If wanting to transit north and stay in thai water they would have be coming up the west side of the gulf, and would have to come through a bottleneck, ie pretty close to the coast 15-20miles off Nakon Si Thammamrat, coming up the east side would in end up in Cambodian water.

On the surface? Those Collins-class I mentioned earlier are 3,000 long tons but a draught of 7m (23 feet) at waterline. Los Angeles class are 6000 long tons and 31 feet draught at waterline. Submarines will generally stay on surface or periscope depth unless needed - they are much faster on the surface.

Cheers

[ratcatcher]

Misleading headline

SUBMARINES

Navy torpedoes Bt7.6-billion submarine project.

= (The navy tried desperately to get the subs, but saner heads prevailed)

More to the point headline

SINKING ISSUE

Defence Minister scuttles submarine project.

= (The government really can't afford the embarrassment of buying antique subs, since they need the money for flood victims)

[transam]

The decks aren't big enough to grow trees on.

[Buchholz]

I cannot see them actually operating a submarine.

Not in the gulf of Thailand at least...Average water depth runs 250' to 275' deep...these is so much O&G infastructure on seabed mid-gulf that they will start tearing up pipelines and hitting sub-sea well heads (which typically stand around 6m proud of the seabed)

Would not be a wise move to try and transit through all that lot.

Almost makes one wonder how the submarines that do travel through the Gulf of Thailand operate.

Very carefully I suspect, If wanting to transit north and stay in thai water they would have be coming up the west side of the gulf, and would have to come through a bottleneck, ie pretty close to the coast 15-20miles off Nakon Si Thammamrat, coming up the east side would in end up in Cambodian water.

Submarines are operating undetected in the territorial waters of their neighboring and non-neighboring countries every day of the year.

They also operate in waters even more shallow than the Gulf.

That's two of their biggest advantages no matter whose Navy they belong to.

.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Not in the gulf of Thailand at least...Average water depth runs 250' to 275' deep...these is so much O&G infastructure on seabed mid-gulf that they will start tearing up pipelines and hitting sub-sea well heads (which typically stand around 6m proud of the seabed)

Would not be a wise move to try and transit through all that lot.

Almost makes one wonder how the submarines that do travel through the Gulf of Thailand operate.

Very carefully I suspect, If wanting to transit north and stay in thai water they would have be coming up the west side of the gulf, and would have to come through a bottleneck, ie pretty close to the coast 15-20miles off Nakon Si Thammamrat, coming up the east side would in end up in Cambodian water.

On the surface? Those Collins-class I mentioned earlier are 3,000 long tons but a draught of 7m (23 feet) at waterline. Los Angeles class are 6000 long tons and 31 feet draught at waterline. Submarines will generally stay on surface or periscope depth unless needed - they are much faster on the surface.

They are also much more easily detected on the surface, hence, in reality, they spend very precious little time on the surface.

Stealth is paramount to their operations.

.

[Soutpeel]

Submarines are operating undetected in the territorial waters of their neighboring and non-neighboring countries every day of the year.

They also operate in waters even more shallow than the Gulf.

That's two of their biggest advantages no matter whose Navy they belong to.

.

Not the water depth thats the issue in the gulf, its hitting the sub-sea O&G infa-structure on the seabed which would be more or a worry in the gulf, although the structures are on navigation charts, if they managed to hit a sub-sea wellhead/PLEM or similar could be big problem, bear is mind some of the sub-sea wells (exploration wells) are nothing more than literally a 10" piece of pipe sticking 6m out the seabed.

I suspect sub's of any nation that take a jolly in the gulf will steer well clear of the O&G kit, or transit through the vietnam/cambodian side of the gulf

[airconsult]

They are also much more easily detected on the surface, hence, in reality, they spend very precious little time on the surface.

Stealth is paramount to their operations.

.

Noted - however, most submarines are non-nuclear. A non-nuclear submarine has to run on batteries when submerged below an exhaust and air intake on the periscope.

An average range of a non-nuclear submarine when submerged is quite low, again as an example - 480nm at 4 knots (7.4km/h). At that slow speed, anything can run away from you. Basically submarine warfare (non-nuclear) depends on getting to your location on the surface, then submerging for the stealthy approach. Usually faster than the above, because you do not need the max range. Then once beyond the critical area, you resurface and proceed.

Range: • 11,000 nautical miles (20,000 km; 13,000 mi) at 10 knots (19 km/h; 12 mph) (surfaced)

• 9,000 nautical miles (17,000 km; 10,000 mi) at 10 knots (19 km/h; 12 mph) (snorkel)

• 32.6 nautical miles (60.4 km; 37.5 mi) at 21 knots (39 km/h; 24 mph) (submerged)

• 480 nautical miles (890 km; 550 mi) at 4 knots (7.4 km/h; 4.6 mph) (submerged)

In the case of the type 206 which the RTN was thinking of purchasing, it is slightly worse than the above figures (but still reasonable for it's purpose and class).

Range: 4,500 nmi at 5 knots, surfaced;

(8,300 km at 9 km/h)

228 nmi at 4 knots, submerged

(420 km at 7 km/h)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_206_submarine

[volk666]

What's 7.6 bil comparing to hundreds of billions the government spends on buying rice at above market prices? They will surely lose more in one year on that failing policy than they were preparing to pay for subs.

[rubl]

Good news! Unmanned underwater vehicles are coming.

"

UUAV conducts 7-hour mission

by Staff Writers

Bremen, Germany (UPI) Mar 13, 2012

Germany's Atlas Elektronik reports that its SeaCat autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle has successfully completed a seven-hour mission.

The vehicle traveled through the 14.9-mile Albstollen water supply tunnel in the state of Bade-Wurttemberg, inspecting for possible damage."

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/UUAV_conducts_7-hour_mission_999.html

[surayu]

Good news! Unmanned underwater vehicles are coming.

They are here already, the "Hello Kitty" or "Doraemon" stickers can be purchased separately....: