Inverted Racism In Thailand......

endure · March 19, 2012

Very different,with UK Citizenship,you get all the financial Benefits that a indigenous Brit gets,exactly the same.

Thailand you get nothing much, practically in comparison...........Zilch.

You get the same as the Thais get.

Well if that impresses you,then so be it.there is no comparison.

I have no opinion on the relative merits of Thai or UK citizenship. I was pointing that the qualifications needed for obtaining citizenship in Thailand and the UK are similar.

MAJIC · March 19, 2012

Very different,with UK Citizenship,you get all the financial Benefits that a indigenous Brit gets,exactly the same.

Thailand you get nothing much, practically in comparison...........Zilch.

You get the same as the Thais get.

Well if that impresses you,then so be it.there is no comparison.

I have no opinion on the relative merits of Thai or UK citizenship. I was pointing that the qualifications needed for obtaining citizenship in Thailand and the UK are similar.

The path to Citizenship (apart from Thai Lawyers fees,etc in most cases) may be similar,but the end results certainly,are not

endure · March 19, 2012

The path to Citizenship (apart from Thai Lawyers fees,etc in most cases) may be similar,but the end results certainly,are not

I have two Thai friends who arrived in the UK 20 years ago as a waiter and cook respectively. Today they both own their own restaurants employing quite a few people. They've spent the past 20 years paying the same taxes as any other citizen. One of them had a £40,000 VAT bill last quarter. I suspect they've more than paid for whatever benefits they'd had from the State.

theblether · March 19, 2012

There are millions of foreign born business people highly active and successful in the UK, there would be a massive and unfillable hole if they departed overnight.

One of the greatest strengths of the UK is the ability for ambitious people to set up a business and to create employment. All the good work of these people is washed down the drain by people who can't see past the illegal immigration problem.

It's not fair, and it's short sighted beyond belief to dismiss the influence these business people have on our country.

I'm delighted that the Thai people that endure has referred to are doing so well too..........outstanding.

MAJIC · March 19, 2012

The path to Citizenship (apart from Thai Lawyers fees,etc in most cases) may be similar,but the end results certainly,are not

I have two Thai friends who arrived in the UK 20 years ago as a waiter and cook respectively. Today they both own their own restaurants employing quite a few people. They've spent the past 20 years paying the same taxes as any other citizen. One of them had a £40,000 VAT bill last quarter. I suspect they've more than paid for whatever benefits they'd had from the State.

Ah! now that's another subject,but certainly good luck to them both,i'm sure they have earned their success.

manarak · March 19, 2012

If you have dual citizenship, your 'home country' will not use its consular powers to assist you against persecution by your adopted country.

SC

There were times I would have been worried about this - maybe 25 years ago. Nowadays, the "home countries" don't give a rat's ass anymore, with the exception of a few countries which remained "vieille école" in their consular services, such as France.

As a general rule, one can expect very little help from his "home country".

Sing_Sling · March 19, 2012

Too cool for Thai citizenship? Yes, whatever you say . . . I have three and don't need another one - I currently work in Malaysia and have no plans to live in Thailand again . . . so, how is that relevant to your sophomoric comment?

You live in Malaysia and have no interest in ever living in Thailand again, yet day after day you troll a Thai message board making inaccurate and derogatory posts about Thailand and Thais. Sounds like a great life dude

Ah, I see . . . I made an erroneous post, was corrected, and admitted I had posted a link with outdated infirmation. Mea culpa. Mea culpa maxima.

So one has to live, or plan to live, in Thailand to post on a Thai-related site . . . that would exclude quite a few people here, wouldn't it? I was born in Thailand - but that doesn't count for impressive contributors like you . . . lived there recently and owned a factory - but that doesn't count for legends like you - vacations (dozens of times) - yet again not good enough for genuine Thais like you (or are you?)

So, what exactly are the criteria you place on people to be allowed to post here? I'm glad to see that TV is owned by someone like you who only contributes first-class threads and is the harbinger of quality

Thank you

Time Traveller · March 20, 2012

The main benefit for living in Thailand - lower taxation than many other countries - can be had without citizenship or PR, (unless you're American). Both PR & Citizenship require a cumbersome amount of documentation with no definite timeline of completion. Citizenship can also offer opportunity to own 100% of a company and easier work rights. However, for those who are rich, Thai citizenship & PR offer nothing more than what a good lawyer can get for them already. So it's surprising to hear why so many farang are very interested in Thai Citizenship and those same people want to question why other farang don't bother. Maybe their love for "country, religion and King" is so great they think they are Thais and need the certificate to prove it! For myself, and perhaps others, I feel very limited cultural connection with Thainess so have no urgency yet for either although I have investigated each.

PR & Citizenship do make life easier - less hassle from yearly renewal of stay and work permits - however, the process to obtain each is even much more cumbersome with very lengthy amount of work needed to obtain all of the information, for example documentation requirements (Work history/company registration documents/Tax documentation - don't they even talk to their Tax department instead of asking applicants to obtain telephone book size copies of past records?) are way beyond what modern countries require indicating either Thailand have no desire to process anymore than a very tiny number of immigrants, or their systems are antiquated developing country bureaucracies that have no capacity to verify applicant themselves and expect other agencies to sign off.

On the other hand I don't see Thailand "closing doors" to ordinary foreigners - like most farang want to tell you is their reason for PR/Citizenship - because in the globalised world there is now too much competition from other countries trying to attract foreign investment in this region. (Even Myanmar is moving towards offering the right to 100% foreign ownership of companies, 5yr tax holiday's and Land lease rights similiar to Thailand). Thai Citizenship may also help your business interest in Asean countries if the planned AEC ever does come about.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Time Traveller

theblether · March 20, 2012

The main benefit for living in Thailand - lower taxation than many other countries - can be had without citizenship or PR, (unless you're American). Both PR & Citizenship require a cumbersome amount of documentation with no definite timeline of completion. Citizenship can also offer opportunity to own 100% of a company and easier work rights. However, for those who are rich, Thai citizenship & PR offer nothing more than what a good lawyer can get for them already. So it's surprising to hear why so many farang are very interested in Thai Citizenship and those same people want to question why other farang don't bother. Maybe their love for "country, religion and King" is so great they think they are Thais and need the certificate to prove it! For myself, and perhaps others, I feel very limited cultural connection with Thainess so have no urgency yet for either although I have investigated each.

PR & Citizenship do make life easier - less hassle from yearly renewal of stay and work permits - however, the process to obtain each is even much more cumbersome with very lengthy amount of work needed to obtain all of the information, for example documentation requirements (Work history/company registration documents/Tax documentation - don't they even talk to their Tax department instead of asking applicants to obtain telephone book size copies of past records?) are way beyond what modern countries require indicating either Thailand have no desire to process anymore than a very tiny number of immigrants, or their systems are antiquated developing country bureaucracies that have no capacity to verify applicant themselves and expect other agencies to sign off.

On the other hand I don't see Thailand "closing doors" to ordinary foreigners - like most farang want to tell you is their reason for PR/Citizenship - because in the globalised world there is now too much competition from other countries trying to attract foreign investment in this region. (Even Myanmar is moving towards offering the right to 100% foreign ownership of companies, 5yr tax holiday's and Land lease rights similiar to Thailand). Thai Citizenship may also help your business interest in Asean countries if the planned AEC ever does come about.

Excellent input.......thanks very much. The Asean economies are liable to be the worlds' economic engine for the next few decades, anyone considering a long term business career here could well find having Thai nationality an advantage.

Sing_Sling · March 20, 2012

I really doubt that an effective ASEAN will happen for a long, long time to come and Thailand will still drag its feet on far too many issues to make it worthwhile taking Thai citizenship.

Most corporate working expats in Singapore and Malaysia will keep going the the way they are . . . while Thailand stagnates

theblether · March 20, 2012

I really doubt that an effective ASEAN will happen for a long, long time to come and Thailand will still drag its feet on far too many issues to make it worthwhile taking Thai citizenship.

Most corporate working expats in Singapore and Malaysia will keep going the the way they are . . . while Thailand stagnates

There certainly are a lot of birthing pains to the Asean community but we in Europe should remember that we had to endure WW2 before the idea of the European Community was born.

We have had a lifetime of peace in Europe, if that is all the EC has achieved then I would suggest it has been a resounding success and long may it continue.

I hope the Asean countries eventually manage to get the same level of cooperation going. One major problem preventing that coming to fruition though is the astounding level of Asian on Asian racism.

Sing_Sling · March 21, 2012

I really doubt that an effective ASEAN will happen for a long, long time to come and Thailand will still drag its feet on far too many issues to make it worthwhile taking Thai citizenship.

Most corporate working expats in Singapore and Malaysia will keep going the the way they are . . . while Thailand stagnates

There certainly are a lot of birthing pains to the Asean community but we in Europe should remember that we had to endure WW2 before the idea of the European Community was born.

We have had a lifetime of peace in Europe, if that is all the EC has achieved then I would suggest it has been a resounding success and long may it continue.

I hope the Asean countries eventually manage to get the same level of cooperation going. One major problem preventing that coming to fruition though is the astounding level of Asian on Asian racism.

Well, hopefully it won't take a ASEAN-wide war to bring the region together

We also take this 'lifetime of peace' issue very, very lightly - thankfully never having known war as such - and I can only echo your thoughts on that . . . and if ASEAN ever erupts then 'Hello New Zealand/Oz' for us.

There are far too many factors that would inhibit growth and open relations between the countries - you mentioned one in racism, quite right.

Others would be the agreement not to criticise one another for domestic nor foreign policies

. . . the massive difference in the level of economic and social development (though there was a big difference between - say - Greece and Sweden, the foundations were there)

. . . the lack of funding for co-operative projects - in ASEAN the two most advanced countries are relatively small (Singapore and Malaysia) whereas in Europe the most advanced countries were the largest (Germany, France).

. . . completely different sets of laws

. . . completely different political structure from Kingdoms (Thailand, Cambodia) to Ethocracies (Malaysia) to military dictatorships (Burma) to Kleptocracies (Philippines and Indonesia) to Communist government (Vietnam)

Simply won't work until there is a general level of education and wealth

Not trying to be negative, but it simply won't happen

Trembly · March 21, 2012

To compare the benefits of a Thai passport worldwide versus British, Japanese, Swiss, Brazilian, Singaporean etc passports on this thread is an exercise in rather dim sophistry.

What's the point in trying to gain any one of those passports rather than Thai (without giving your existing passport up) f you have decided to conduct your life in Thailand ?

Edited March 21, 2012 by Trembly

h90 · March 21, 2012

I think here is racism and nationalism confused.

Taking a other citizenship has nothing to do with race.

Racism is when I have prejudice because of someones race not because of his passport.

StreetCowboy · March 21, 2012

To compare the benefits of a Thai passport worldwide versus British, Japanese, Swiss, Brazilian, Singaporean etc passports on this thread is an exercise in rather dim sophistry.

What's the point in trying to gain any one of those passports rather than Thai (without giving your existing passport up) f you have decided to conduct your life in Thailand ?

It depends on where your original passport is from.

SC

Trembly · March 21, 2012

To compare the benefits of a Thai passport worldwide versus British, Japanese, Swiss, Brazilian, Singaporean etc passports on this thread is an exercise in rather dim sophistry.

What's the point in trying to gain any one of those passports rather than Thai (without giving your existing passport up) f you have decided to conduct your life in Thailand ?

It depends on where your original passport is from.

SC

It doesn't matter where your original passport is from, it isn't going to make life in Thailand as easy as having a Thai passport.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Trembly

melvinmelvin · March 21, 2012

Having said all that, I can't understand why any able and willing foreigner who has made Thailand is home would not want Thai citizenship other than through sheer laziness, or perhaps some sense of fervent patriotic loyalty (?).
Or financial reasons. Plus I really still can't see much more benefit than being on a retirement visa. (not that I am on one of those either).
Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

If you have dual citizenship, your 'home country' will not use its consular powers to assist you against persecution by your adopted country.

SC

Is this some wishfull thinking of yours or solid information that you have actually verified with all "home countries" of the world?

Anyway, I do not think it is generally correct. Over the past few years I've seen several

examples to the contrary hitting international news head lines.

StreetCowboy · March 21, 2012

Having said all that, I can't understand why any able and willing foreigner who has made Thailand is home would not want Thai citizenship other than through sheer laziness, or perhaps some sense of fervent patriotic loyalty (?).
Or financial reasons. Plus I really still can't see much more benefit than being on a retirement visa. (not that I am on one of those either).
Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

If you have dual citizenship, your 'home country' will not use its consular powers to assist you against persecution by your adopted country.

SC

Is this some wishfull thinking of yours or solid information that you have actually verified with all "home countries" of the world?

Anyway, I do not think it is generally correct. Over the past few years I've seen several

examples to the contrary hitting international news head lines.

I'm just telling you what it says on my passport "British nationals who are also the nationals of another country cannot be protected by HM Representatives against the authorities of that country."

SC

pastitche · March 21, 2012

From a former language teacher's perspective, there is some scientific evidence that some (white, European-heritage) foreigners will have more trouble learning Thai potentially than the average Chinese and/or Indian, because of a gene that is linked towards proficiency in tonal languages. This gene is MUCH more common in countries where tonal languages are commonly spoken. It gives me more compassion for the people that I know who have genuinely tried to learn and been repeatedly frustrated (including some linguistic geniuses who are much better at multiple European languages than I am).

Frankly I would prefer to see evidence of the existence of the gene you talk about; language learning in infants and a tonal gene? So perhaps the !Kung Bushmen have a gene fo their click?

NewlyMintedThai · March 21, 2012

I studied Chinese with a number of American-born Chinese. I can report that in spite if them having the supposed tone genes, none of them were any better at it than those of us coming from European and African gene pools.

pastitche · March 21, 2012

I always wonder why anyone would find any attraction, or much benefit in taking on Thai Nationality,

Personally I would never give it a minutes thought,I was born English,and will remain a loyal,Englishman until I die.

Sadly it must be said,you are only wanted in Thailand while you have money,I should hope that those that do take on Thai Nationality,realise that.

And if they ever need serious help in their lives,and it all goes wrong,then dont expect Thailand to bail you out,as your own Country would do.

Good Luck.

Do you have an English passport?

MAJIC · March 21, 2012

I always wonder why anyone would find any attraction, or much benefit in taking on Thai Nationality,

Personally I would never give it a minutes thought,I was born English,and will remain a loyal,Englishman until I die.

Sadly it must be said,you are only wanted in Thailand while you have money,I should hope that those that do take on Thai Nationality,realise that.

And if they ever need serious help in their lives,and it all goes wrong,then dont expect Thailand to bail you out,as your own Country would do.

Good Luck.

Do you have an English passport?

But of course,I am a British Citizen.

Jingthing · March 21, 2012

I studied Chinese with a number of American-born Chinese. I can report that in spite if them having the supposed tone genes, none of them were any better at it than those of us coming from European and African gene pools.

Nothing at all to do with genes.

mauGR1 · March 21, 2012

From a former language teacher's perspective, there is some scientific evidence that some (white, European-heritage) foreigners will have more trouble learning Thai potentially than the average Chinese and/or Indian, because of a gene that is linked towards proficiency in tonal languages. This gene is MUCH more common in countries where tonal languages are commonly spoken. It gives me more compassion for the people that I know who have genuinely tried to learn and been repeatedly frustrated (including some linguistic geniuses who are much better at multiple European languages than I am).

Frankly I would prefer to see evidence of the existence of the gene you talk about; language learning in infants and a tonal gene? So perhaps the !Kung Bushmen have a gene fo their click?

I heard that it has to do with the left ( ? ) part of the brain, which apparently is not used in rational thoughts.. Just hearsaying..

pastitche · March 21, 2012

From a former language teacher's perspective, there is some scientific evidence that some (white, European-heritage) foreigners will have more trouble learning Thai potentially than the average Chinese and/or Indian, because of a gene that is linked towards proficiency in tonal languages. This gene is MUCH more common in countries where tonal languages are commonly spoken. It gives me more compassion for the people that I know who have genuinely tried to learn and been repeatedly frustrated (including some linguistic geniuses who are much better at multiple European languages than I am).

Frankly I would prefer to see evidence of the existence of the gene you talk about; language learning in infants and a tonal gene? So perhaps the !Kung Bushmen have a gene for their click?

I heard that it has to do with the left ( ? ) part of the brain, which apparently is not used in rational thoughts.. Just hearsaying..

It is the alleged gene that I think is questionable; infants are programmed to learn language and any child of any racial genetic history will learn to speak, in its early years whatever language to which it is exposed. I do not believe that there exists a gene such as Ijustwannateach claims and would like to see the scientific evidence he claims.

theblether · March 21, 2012

I'm just telling you what it says on my passport "British nationals who are also the nationals of another country cannot be protected by HM Representatives against the authorities of that country."

SC is correct. Dual nationality undermines your protection by UK authorities. For example, if the dual country had National Service, then the UK government could not prevent you being called up.

That is one of the down sides of Dual nationality.

melvinmelvin · March 21, 2012

I'm just telling you what it says on my passport "British nationals who are also the nationals of another country cannot be protected by HM Representatives against the authorities of that country."

SC is correct. Dual nationality undermines your protection by UK authorities. For example, if the dual country had National Service, then the UK government could not prevent you being called up.

That is one of the down sides of Dual nationality.

Maybe the two of you should try to draw a line between UK and the rest of the world.

I don't doubt that there is such language in UK passports. However, that doesn't make

the statement true for other countries than the UK.

SC presented this as a general truth earlier on, which it is not.

In my view that language in UK passports (if its there) is more to be considered as a general

disclaimer that allows UK authorities to be selective re assisting dual passport holders.

Sing_Sling · March 22, 2012

From a former language teacher's perspective, there is some scientific evidence that some (white, European-heritage) foreigners will have more trouble learning Thai potentially than the average Chinese and/or Indian, because of a gene that is linked towards proficiency in tonal languages. This gene is MUCH more common in countries where tonal languages are commonly spoken. It gives me more compassion for the people that I know who have genuinely tried to learn and been repeatedly frustrated (including some linguistic geniuses who are much better at multiple European languages than I am).

Frankly I would prefer to see evidence of the existence of the gene you talk about; language learning in infants and a tonal gene? So perhaps the !Kung Bushmen have a gene for their click?

I heard that it has to do with the left ( ? ) part of the brain, which apparently is not used in rational thoughts.. Just hearsaying..

It is the alleged gene that I think is questionable; infants are programmed to learn language and any child of any racial genetic history will learn to speak, in its early years whatever language to which it is exposed. I do not believe that there exists a gene such as Ijustwannateach claims and would like to see the scientific evidence he claims.

Don't Chinese also have a gene for being better at Mathematics? Russians a gene for being better at chess?

Ah, genetics . . . you can make up pretty much whatever you wish

patroller · March 22, 2012

Don't Chinese also have a gene for being better at Mathematics? Russians a gene for being better at chess?

And Thais for Connect 4.

bangkockney · March 22, 2012

From a former language teacher's perspective, there is some scientific evidence that some (white, European-heritage) foreigners will have more trouble learning Thai potentially than the average Chinese and/or Indian, because of a gene that is linked towards proficiency in tonal languages. This gene is MUCH more common in countries where tonal languages are commonly spoken. It gives me more compassion for the people that I know who have genuinely tried to learn and been repeatedly frustrated (including some linguistic geniuses who are much better at multiple European languages than I am).

Frankly I would prefer to see evidence of the existence of the gene you talk about; language learning in infants and a tonal gene? So perhaps the !Kung Bushmen have a gene for their click?

I heard that it has to do with the left ( ? ) part of the brain, which apparently is not used in rational thoughts.. Just hearsaying..

It is the alleged gene that I think is questionable; infants are programmed to learn language and any child of any racial genetic history will learn to speak, in its early years whatever language to which it is exposed. I do not believe that there exists a gene such as Ijustwannateach claims and would like to see the scientific evidence he claims.

Witchcraft! Genes don't exist! DNA analysis is useless. ad nauseum

1 minute in google would give you plenty of reading material. Why wait to be spoon fed?

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