Does Anyone Know......

[robblok]

Good grief. The man was with his wife and child and carrying balloons. Balloons! Not a Molotov cocktail, not a knife or a gun - balloons!

Under no circumstances should this have resulted in a potentially lethal head blow with a truncheon.

Im sure it would not have resulted in violence if he had not taken them there or obeyed the rules.

Agreed, in Saudi women are stoned to death for infidelity. Those are the rules there and they are getting what they deserve. Perhaps if we did this in Britain we would have a much better society. People deserve to be beaten bloody or killed when they break the rules.

Glad to see you agree with me robblock. You are a forward thinking individual.

Yes i agree only your argument sucks. The saudi women cant easily leave the country. While this guy clearly had the choice to leave his balloons at the gate. You don't score any points with extreme arguments.

In one of my first posts i said the guards acted badly too but it could have all been avoided if the guy followed the rules. He could have taken a taxi too. But he tried to bully his way in anyway.

[robblok]

Good grief. The man was with his wife and child and carrying balloons. Balloons! Not a Molotov cocktail, not a knife or a gun - balloons!

Under no circumstances should this have resulted in a potentially lethal head blow with a truncheon.

Im sure it would not have resulted in violence if he had not taken them there or obeyed the rules.

Oh come on. Security are not there to administer violent retribution to the rule breaker.

They could have stopped the trains, called the police and had it dealt with formally.

You happy with every security guard in the country deciding when a violent beating should be administered for a rule infraction?

The response should ALWAYS be in proportion to the "crime", and in this case it was not.

I agree that the response was to hard but it could have been avoided if he left the balloons, or took a taxi. Its not like the guy had no options. But he decided to do it anyway and so he is more at fault as the security guards he forced their hand.

And come on stopping all the trains inconveniencing so many people just for this guy.. get real.

[FWIW]

stop a train ,close a station and delay thousands of people for 1 idiot farang ? are you serious ?

i think you have a very warped sense of the importance of 1 farang in the bigger picture of thailnds transport system

i would give him a slap myself if his antics was delaying my train and save security the hassle !

No. Stop the train, close the station and delay thousands for one PERSON. Thai or farang no difference.

[evadgib]

I would also add one more point, the batons/nightsticks/truncheons are to be used strictly for body blows. In the United States if a police officer used a baton to the head that would be considered the use of deadly force, and the justification for using a baton to the head would be the same justification needed for the use of a firearm.

We Brits learned that lesson too, longbones, collarbones & underarm strokes. Overarm & head blows were a no-no. Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be any formal training, discipline or culpability here.

What do you expect at those salary levels and this country.

Training, Discipline & Culpability!

[robblok]

I would also add one more point, the batons/nightsticks/truncheons are to be used strictly for body blows. In the United States if a police officer used a baton to the head that would be considered the use of deadly force, and the justification for using a baton to the head would be the same justification needed for the use of a firearm.

We Brits learned that lesson too, longbones, collarbones & underarm strokes. Overarm & head blows were a no-no. Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be any formal training, discipline or culpability here.

What do you expect at those salary levels and this country.

Training, Discipline & Culpability!

Then go back home or expect to pay a price 10 times of what your paying now. Seriously you get what you pay for. Low wages and girls hanging on your arms.. only because they are desperate. You can't have it all.

[wana]

stop a train ,close a station and delay thousands of people for 1 idiot farang ? are you serious ?

i think you have a very warped sense of the importance of 1 farang in the bigger picture of thailnds transport system

i would give him a slap myself if his antics was delaying my train and save security the hassle !

No. Stop the train, close the station and delay thousands for one PERSON. Thai or farang no difference.

if he was thai he would have got cracked even quicker but more likely than not he would have KNOWN not to bulldoze

through a security guard because shit will most certaintly happen

[FWIW]

stop a train ,close a station and delay thousands of people for 1 idiot farang ? are you serious ?

i think you have a very warped sense of the importance of 1 farang in the bigger picture of thailnds transport system

i would give him a slap myself if his antics was delaying my train and save security the hassle !

No. Stop the train, close the station and delay thousands for one PERSON. Thai or farang no difference.

if he was thai he would have got cracked even quicker but more likely than not he would have KNOWN not to bulldoze

through a security guard because shit will most certaintly happen

What do you think are the odds that the farang was told clearly as to what the problem was?

"Excuse me, but balloon are not allowed on the train as they present a security risk"

or do you think he got:

"You, you farang. No. NO". Smack.

Lets recall that the "bulling past" on the videao was after he had been hit in the head.

Still, it is interesting to see that so many farang are happy with the concept of security guards being allowed to administer savage beatings for breaking rules.

I hope for their sakes that they are not one day forced to confront the reality of that situation.

[TheWalkingMan]

Violent as riff-raff from the hood.

[DP25]

And the reaction when the Customs official resisted the orders of the security personnel at Suvarnabhumi? Universally against the Customs guy. Why different now? Because the offender was a superior farang this time?

I'm not sure what case you're talking about...the one where the custom official hit the security at the airport? Yes, that time I sided with security guard because he was attacked. That case didn't result in security beating the official in the head with a baton but rather in HIM attacking security. This time I side with the father who was battered till his head was bleeding because he had the audacity to have a balloon while in the BTS ticketing area. Not even on the train platform, not even past the ticket gate. This guard was completely out of line. I hope the father presses assault charges against this guy.

[robblok]

stop a train ,close a station and delay thousands of people for 1 idiot farang ? are you serious ?

i think you have a very warped sense of the importance of 1 farang in the bigger picture of thailnds transport system

i would give him a slap myself if his antics was delaying my train and save security the hassle !

No. Stop the train, close the station and delay thousands for one PERSON. Thai or farang no difference.

if he was thai he would have got cracked even quicker but more likely than not he would have KNOWN not to bulldoze

through a security guard because shit will most certaintly happen

What do you think are the odds that the farang was told clearly as to what the problem was?

"Excuse me, but balloon are not allowed on the train as they present a security risk"

or do you think he got:

"You, you farang. No. NO". Smack.

Lets recall that the "bulling past" on the videao was after he had been hit in the head.

Still, it is interesting to see that so many farang are happy with the concept of security guards being allowed to administer savage beatings for breaking rules.

I hope for their sakes that they are not one day forced to confront the reality of that situation.

Im pretty sure i won't because i follow the rules. Also i speak enough Thai to understand what they are saying.

I still say the farang was the cause of this problem (by breaking the rules) and it got worse because the beating was too hard. But without the cause it would not have happened.

If i am ever forced to defend myself because someone attacks me and i overreact i really hope for some understanding. Because it was not me who caused it. On the other hand if i were stupid enough to get drunk and attack someone if i got a beating it was totally my mistake.

p.s. im not saying the guy was drunk.

[wana]

being IGNORANT of the law is not a defence

this statement comes up in nearly every court in the world daily

i think a smack on the knee cap may have been better but Arai Gor Dai

one bullheaded idiot and his balloons got a smack on the head ,much better result than closing a station and disrupting thousands of commuters

people need to learn ,this is not the land of the free and you dont have european or uk style rights

force will be used and its often severe

[FWIW]

Sorry. Can you point me to the law about carrying ballons on the BTS in the Thai criminal code?

So, is not taking balloons a law? a rule? a condition of carriage? a guideline?

Just want to be sure about breaking which ones result in a potentially lethal beating.

[wana]

Sorry. Can you point me to the law about carrying ballons on the BTS in the Thai criminal code?

So, is not taking balloons a law? a rule? a condition of carriage? a guideline?

Just want to be sure about breaking which ones result in a potentially lethal beating.

laws are basically enforceable rules

bts has rules "conditions off carriage etc " on the wall you walk past them every day but most take them for granted and never stop to read

it says amongst other things,many items are prohibited from transit ,non complinance of rules on the train or in the station and you will be "removed " and may also be charged

the exact same would happen if he did this in an airport or any other big public transport place

he would be knocked down fast ,knee on the back of his head ,arms bent up his back and handcuffed very forcefully until police arrive

all security everywhere on transport systems have this power ,to keep the majority safe

i have had to open my bag many times before walking on somewhere and i know if i refused and proceeded towards the train i should be ready for fireworks

[submaniac]

^^

Others have posted that there are signs prohibiting balloons on the BTS. (I haven't seen 'em myself.) There's no "law" making a crime to carry balloons on the BTS. However, the law is that a BTS is their property and you or I do not "own" the BTS. The BTS and its personnel have the right to exclude people who break their rules, whatever rules they formulate. Going onto BTS property without their permission would really be trespassing. In the USA, Britain, etc., if you break the rules on public transportation, expect to be arrested. If I go onto an (American) airline carrying something as a bottle of water, when they tell me to throw it away, I would also be expected to be arrested.

I have said it before, and I say it again, I don't know what really happened here, so I am not going to speculate and say anything beyond that BTS has the legal right to formulate its own rules and exclude those who break their rules. I make no comment whether the use of force was justified or not.

[wana]

stop a train ,close a station and delay thousands of people for 1 idiot farang ? are you serious ?

i think you have a very warped sense of the importance of 1 farang in the bigger picture of thailnds transport system

i would give him a slap myself if his antics was delaying my train and save security the hassle !

No. Stop the train, close the station and delay thousands for one PERSON. Thai or farang no difference.

if he was thai he would have got cracked even quicker but more likely than not he would have KNOWN not to bulldoze

through a security guard because shit will most certaintly happen

What do you think are the odds that the farang was told clearly as to what the problem was?

"Excuse me, but balloon are not allowed on the train as they present a security risk"

or do you think he got:

"You, you farang. No. NO". Smack.

Lets recall that the "bulling past" on the videao was after he had been hit in the head.

Still, it is interesting to see that so many farang are happy with the concept of security guards being allowed to administer savage beatings for breaking rules.

I hope for their sakes that they are not one day forced to confront the reality of that situation.

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step ,blame the security guard if you want ,but the irishman was a much larger man

maybe he was worried that if he didnt hit him properly he would be in trouble himself and give him a good swipe to show he means business

[meom]

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step ,blame the security guard if you want ,but the irishman was a much larger man

maybe he was worried that if he didnt hit him properly he would be in trouble himself and give him a good swipe to show he means business

Yeah I wouldn't mind hiring this guy if I was running an all night disco.

No fear whatsoever.

[wana]

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step ,blame the security guard if you want ,but the irishman was a much larger man

maybe he was worried that if he didnt hit him properly he would be in trouble himself and give him a good swipe to show he means business

Yeah I wouldn't mind hiring this guy if I was running an all night disco.

No fear whatsoever.

most all night discos have a couple of plain cops sitting drinking somewhere or playing pool

the bouncer at the door is just for show ,the cops deal with anything serious

[meom]

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step ,blame the security guard if you want ,but the irishman was a much larger man

maybe he was worried that if he didnt hit him properly he would be in trouble himself and give him a good swipe to show he means business

Yeah I wouldn't mind hiring this guy if I was running an all night disco.

No fear whatsoever.

most all night discos have a couple of plain cops sitting drinking somewhere or playing pool

the bouncer at the door is just for show ,the cops deal with anything serious

Sure.

After you've been beaten up and chucked out the cops might show up to pick up the pieces.

[NewlyMintedThai]

And the reaction when the Customs official resisted the orders of the security personnel at Suvarnabhumi? Universally against the Customs guy. Why different now? Because the offender was a superior farang this time?

I'm not sure what case you're talking about...the one where the custom official hit the security at the airport? Yes, that time I sided with security guard because he was attacked. That case didn't result in security beating the official in the head with a baton but rather in HIM attacking security. This time I side with the father who was battered till his head was bleeding because he had the audacity to have a balloon while in the BTS ticketing area. Not even on the train platform, not even past the ticket gate. This guard was completely out of line. I hope the father presses assault charges against this guy.

In both cases you had someone who thought he was exempted from the rules ignoring the instructions of security personnel.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Sorry. Can you point me to the law about carrying ballons on the BTS in the Thai criminal code?

So, is not taking balloons a law? a rule? a condition of carriage? a guideline?

Just want to be sure about breaking which ones result in a potentially lethal beating.

It's not about the bleeding balloons.

It is about not following the directives of security personnel.

[IMA_FARANG]

Would a security gaurd on the Tube in London beat a person trying to carry balloons on to a train?

Well, I don't know, but I definately saw a female secirity guard in Heathrow throw an Asian (Indian I believe) man to the floor and then use her club on him when he tried to stand up.

This was back sometime in the 80's, when London was on a security alert for possible IRA bombs.

I had just got off a plane from the U.S. and this Indian guy was just ahead of me. Suddenly he turned around and tried to run back into the plane.

A female security gaurd intercepted him and pushed him down to the floor. He then tried to get back up and she hit him with her club yelling at him to stay down on the floor. Two other male security gaurds quickly arrived and all three of them pinned him to the floor.

It turned out he had forgotten his briefcase that he left on the plane, and he tried to run back inside to get it before they shut the door.

Bad mistake on his part.

Didn't seem like he was hurt however, but he was definately rattled by the experience.

To be fair to that security gaurd, there was a possible IRA bomb alert, and the Indian guy made a sudden dash to get back into that plane. So she took what action she thought was necessary to stop him immeadiately.

All this took place about 10 or 15 feet away from me, with me scrambling to get out of the way of the security gaurds.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step

Why is that relevant?

Lets recall that the "bulling past" on the videao was after he had been hit in the head.

Still, it is interesting to see that so many farang are happy with the concept of security guards being allowed to administer savage beatings for breaking rules.

Exactly, how could he be so bull-headed as to try to continue to get his way **after** he'd already been assaulted?

Even if there is **no** understandable verbal communication, a guy in a uniform blocking your way in a foreign country should be a sign to back down and walk away.

Just stupid pride and pigheadedness.

And everyone trying to talk about the way things "should be", that's all fine and good for armchair (keyboard) philosophy discussions, but in living our lives, we're better off heeding reality as it is.

To all in doubt - security guards are not always lazy do-nothings who just grin and salute you just because you're a farang. They may not have the "right" to beat you for disobeying them from some abstract/ideal "normal standard" as far as we're concerned, but in practice you may well get beaten. I wouldn't be surprised if their policies and training procedures in this case didn't simply state they can do anything they like to enforce their commands, if someone happens to die as a result, that's unfortunate, but no one's going to be "held accountable" - this is NOT back home folks! Life is cheap here - and not "especially foreigners" - all life.

In many less straightforward circumstances, if you cause a Thai to lose serious face, you may find yourself suffering retribution way out of proportion to your original offense, and you'll likely never even make the connection as to where your "bad luck" came from. I'm sure many security guards are related or have friends that are well-connected, either to corrupt officials or the local mafia (same difference).

Hundreds of farang die in questionable circumstances every year here, and we find out about a very small proportion of them. My advice - keep your nose clean, your head down and show respect even if you don't actually feel it.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

most all night discos have a couple of plain cops sitting drinking somewhere or playing pool

the bouncer at the door is just for show ,the cops deal with anything serious

The fact those cops are there has **nothing** to do with any official police business. Their primary role is to make sure the management is giving his agreed percentage of profits to his BiB "partners". Moonlighting as private security is secondary part of the payoff, privately funded overtime work if you like.

Any serious trouble from a drunk farang getting into conflict with a Thai, and they'll often all join in together in beating the crap out of him, including any Thai males standing around just for fun.

[chrisinth]

Without being funny, which part of the video shows any of the security guards assaulting the Irish guy with a baton? Maybe it is the quality of the video or my eyes, but I can't see it.

I see the guy trying to be stopped yes, but not assaulted. Has it been ascertained that the injury did actually come from the security guard or did it happen in a previous incident before the balloon fiasco?

[submaniac]

^^

The actual hitting is not on the video. The video began after he was hit and was already bleeding. That's why there are posts saying we do not have enough information to determine whether or not it was justified.

[Luang]

Ok, for all you cyber judges and (Wana)be hard men, this is what ACTUALLY happened (this from someone who witnessed the whole thing):

The guy was told by a guard that balloons were not allowed on. He countered that they (him and his daugther) had arrived via BTS just earlier with the same balloons and it hadn't been a problem. Guard tells him he can take half but not all. Guy decides that's BS and proceeds through turnstile (NOT barging past any guards!). Guard chases and smashes him in the face with a METAL DETECTOR (NOT the baton!)

He was also hit later on the back of the head by another guard! All of this in front of his horrified and terrified 4 yr old daughter. Oh, and the woman was NOT his wife/gf but a Thai bystander who was communicating her disgust at what she had just witnessed.

Now, for those that think this was some form of divine justice, then that's your perogative. I just hope you don't have to experience something as horrific whilst in the company of a small child also.

Some on here really do need to exercise some self-control themselves and refrain from jumping to stupid conclusion about others, based on nothing more than your own arrogance and prejudice!

Oh, and when the Police arrived they told them they wouldn't be arresting any Thais and that if he didn't just leave then HE would be arrested! Didn't even interview the guard.

I'm sure plenty of you will think that's also acceptable practice and procedure too huh?!

[chrisinth]

Ok, for all you cyber judges and (Wana)be hard men, this is what ACTUALLY happened (this from someone who witnessed the whole thing):

The guy was told by a guard that balloons were not allowed on. He countered that they (him and his daugther) had arrived via BTS just earlier with the same balloons and it hadn't been a problem. Guard tells him he can take half but not all. Guy decides that's BS and proceeds through turnstile (NOT barging past any guards!). Guard chases and smashes him in the face with a METAL DETECTOR (NOT the baton!)

He was also hit later on the back of the head by another guard! All of this in front of his horrified and terrified 4 yr old daughter. Oh, and the woman was NOT his wife/gf but a Thai bystander who was communicating her disgust at what she had just witnessed.

Now, for those that think this was some form of divine justice, then that's your perogative. I just hope you don't have to experience something as horrific whilst in the company of a small child also.

Some on here really do need to exercise some self-control themselves and refrain from jumping to stupid conclusion about others, based on nothing more than your own arrogance and prejudice!

Oh, and when the Police arrived they told them they wouldn't be arresting any Thais and that if he didn't just leave then HE would be arrested! Didn't even interview the guard.

I'm sure plenty of you will think that's also acceptable practice and procedure too huh?!

Thanks for the clarification Luang

[wana]

Ok, for all you cyber judges and (Wana)be hard men, this is what ACTUALLY happened (this from someone who witnessed the whole thing):

The guy was told by a guard that balloons were not allowed on. He countered that they (him and his daugther) had arrived via BTS just earlier with the same balloons and it hadn't been a problem. Guard tells him he can take half but not all. Guy decides that's BS and proceeds through turnstile (NOT barging past any guards!). Guard chases and smashes him in the face with a METAL DETECTOR (NOT the baton!)

He was also hit later on the back of the head by another guard! All of this in front of his horrified and terrified 4 yr old daughter. Oh, and the woman was NOT his wife/gf but a Thai bystander who was communicating her disgust at what she had just witnessed.

Now, for those that think this was some form of divine justice, then that's your perogative. I just hope you don't have to experience something as horrific whilst in the company of a small child also.

Some on here really do need to exercise some self-control themselves and refrain from jumping to stupid conclusion about others, based on nothing more than your own arrogance and prejudice!

Oh, and when the Police arrived they told them they wouldn't be arresting any Thais and that if he didn't just leave then HE would be arrested! Didn't even interview the guard.

I'm sure plenty of you will think that's also acceptable practice and procedure too huh?!

make excuses if you want ,he disobeyed the security guards ORDERS and he was dealt with

in ireland they have a sign over the bar in some pubs "many a mans mouth broke his nose "

[FWIW]

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step

Why is that relevant?

I think you have that quotation misascribed.

[wana]

nobody saw the start of the video so we dont know who took the first confrontational step

Why is that relevant?

I think you have that quotation misascribed.

he does ,but why would it not be relevant who made the first agressive gesture or invaded the private space of the other person ?