Uk National Health Available For Retuning Uk Ex Pats

[23962323]

It was a can of worms I opened to Mobis thread relating to health care and the comments were interesting ,but not answered.

The crunch is if you have any connection with the UK ,any at all ,you are automatically regarding as a UK resident ,not just for tax purposes,was deemed in court a few years ago

Also to maintain a UK address is desirable,but that can be bought as a "virtual" address, any and all correspondence can be re-directed, you can have a phone here in Thailand that anybody calling you in the UK to your UK (in the UK) the number rings here in Thailand at local UK calling rates,your IP address can be UK.

The thing about insurance is a misnomer as well,get to 65 and its a no no,but there options to well and truly minimise the high cost of medical care in Thailand by a little planning.

The wordings imposingly excluding a UK citizen are full of "may" and "ordinarily". If you need it ,treatment that is, you will get it and it will be free

[theblether]

Oh goody........another UK thread

[Mobi]

I have no real desire to enter into more discussion on this subject as in my own mind, the rules and my options as a non resident Brit are perfectly clear, and I accept them as such.

Whether or not you can circumvent the law is a matter for much conjecture. It is not just a question of maintaining a virtual address and UK phone number. You have to be registered with a GP and the hospitals ask for proof of residence such as utility bills etc. Yes they do do this, and they can also ask to see your passport.

As I wrote in my earlier thread, I know of an 80 year old woman who has never left the UK in her life who was asked to provide documentary proof of her UK residence before having a hip operation.

But even if I am wrong and you are somehow able to pull the wool over their eyes - be aware that it is a criminal offence and you could well do time for defrauding the NHS.

The rules are the rules; I suggest you get used to them and plan accordingly. I have.

[theblether]

+1 for Mobi

Be careful that you are not confusing residency status for taxation reasons with residency status for NHS treatment regulations.

It is well known and clear to everyone that the HMRC will use any tactic possible to link ex-pats to the UK taxation system. There was a prominent court case on the issue last year.

The test applied by the HMRC is different from the test applied by the NHS.

Anyway.........surely it's out of order to start a new thread to continue an argument from another thread?

[chiang mai]

The OP is plain and simply wrong and needs to come up to speed on matters, in particular he should pay close attention to legislation due to be anounced at end March which will give chapter and verse on this.

[23962323]

What does it say mobi paragraph 4 of the CAB report? yes still registered with GP, NHS still writes to me (in UK),don't know much about utility bills tho,still buy my lottery numbers (please no answers)

I have planned my health care extremely carefully and that includes not getting taken for a ride and crucified by the Thai hospitals

[chiang mai]

If somebody wants to try and set up a system whereby they scam or defraud the UK systems of NHS et al I'm sure it can be done, a false address plus the help of friends in the UK whilst living another life in the LOS. If that's how someone wants to live that's their perogative but don't for one moment try and put a legal face on it all because we all know it's not.

[Mobi]

+1 for Mobi

Be careful that you are not confusing residency status for taxation reasons with residency status for NHS treatment regulations.

It is well known and clear to everyone that the HMRC will use any tactic possible to link ex-pats to the UK taxation system. There was a prominent court case on the issue last year.

The test applied by the HMRC is different from the test applied by the NHS.

Anyway.........surely it's out of order to start a new thread to continue an argument from another thread?

No question about that. As soon as I started to process my claim for my FROZEN pension last year from my new address, HMRC were on to me for a tax return, and the only address they had on file was another address in Pattaya. It took them less than a week to track me down....

These threads - 'Frozen Pensions', 'Sick/demented Brits stranded in Thailand', 'Entitlements to free NHS treatment', 'The rising costs of passports and Exorbitant fees charged by the British consulate', will reinvent themselves and go on forever, along with all the other regulars like 'Are you insulted when called a Farang?' and 'How do I get my fiance a visa - does it matter if I have only known her for 2 days?' and so on......

It would make a nice parlour game. A group of people sitting around a mini-mart beer table have to think in turn of a well known thread from Thai visa. After a few hours, anyone who fails to come up with another well used thread drops out until only the winner is left, who then buys the losers a round of Chang. I reckon I could quite well at that

[arthurwait]

Can someone just clear this question up for me please. If you have been out of the UK for whatever amount of years, but go back to live permently with a permanent address can you get back on the NHS or are these threads just about trying to get care while not living in the country ?

[chiang mai]

Can someone just clear this question up for me please. If you have been out of the UK for whatever amount of years, but go back to live permently with a permanent address can you get back on the NHS or are these threads just about trying to get care while not living in the country ?

As things stand presently (and this may change in April), any UK citizen returning to the UK on a permanent basis becomes elligible for free treatment under current NHS rules (emergency treatment is free to everyone regardless of residency). In such a scenario you may/will be asked to produce evidence confirming that your permanent return is indeed permanent, sale of overseas property etc.

[23962323]

Can someone just clear this question up for me please. If you have been out of the UK for whatever amount of years, but go back to live permently with a permanent address can you get back on the NHS or are these threads just about trying to get care while not living in the country ?

As things stand presently (and this may change in April), any UK citizen returning to the UK on a permanent basis becomes elligible for free treatment under current NHS rules (emergency treatment is free to everyone regardless of residency). In such a scenario you may/will be asked to produce evidence confirming that your permanent return is indeed permanent, sale of overseas property etc.

That's going to be a bit hard in the Pattaya area (property) Oh! well ,might as well top myself now.

[Mobi]

Can someone just clear this question up for me please. If you have been out of the UK for whatever amount of years, but go back to live permently with a permanent address can you get back on the NHS or are these threads just about trying to get care while not living in the country ?

As things stand presently (and this may change in April), any UK citizen returning to the UK on a permanent basis becomes elligible for free treatment under current NHS rules (emergency treatment is free to everyone regardless of residency). In such a scenario you may/will be asked to produce evidence confirming that your permanent return is indeed permanent, sale of overseas property etc.

Sorry chiang mai but your suggestion that they might require proof of sale of overseas property sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. Firstly, how would they even know if you had overseas property, and what happens if you don't.???

No property sale, so no going back home...

And even if you do, why should you sell it just because you are taking up up residence again in the Uk? Since when are UK residents not allowed to own property overseas?

There are many ways the UK authorities can check if you have genuinely repatriated yourself to the UK shores and selling overseas property is not one of them.

BTW I am curious. What may change in April? Are they going to build a great wall of Britain to stop us all from coming home and getting our ancient joints replaced for free? If you're fit enough to storm the wall, you can come in... is that it?

[chiang mai]

Sale of overseas property is just one possible way of proving that the stated "permanent move back to the UK" is indeed permanent, there are doubtless many other ways to prove this point.

As far as April is concerned: the NHS had issued a green paper that discussed NHS services to UK ex-pats and this was discussed quite extensively on this site a while ago. The contents of the paper were finally agreed and a white paper was issued, as I understand things that was largely accepted and the end game anounced in April. I personally think that the rules will allow UK pensioners to holiday outside the UK for up to six months each year before losing their NHS enititlement since this will mesh with taxation rules (183 day rule). I also expect however that whilst being generous with the time overseas rule there will other requirements that must be met in order to maintain UK residency and NHS eligibility.

[23962323]

What if Spain,Cyprus or other EU country? What is the 183 day rule? It is a nonsense, the guy I'm with telephoned Newcastle and asked them about pensions overseas ,the reply was if you do not tell us we are not interested.

[23962323]

+1 for Mobi

Be careful that you are not confusing residency status for taxation reasons with residency status for NHS treatment regulations.

It is well known and clear to everyone that the HMRC will use any tactic possible to link ex-pats to the UK taxation system. There was a prominent court case on the issue last year.

The test applied by the HMRC is different from the test applied by the NHS.

Anyway.........surely it's out of order to start a new thread to continue an argument from another thread?

No question about that. As soon as I started to process my claim for my FROZEN pension last year from my new address, HMRC were on to me for a tax return, and the only address they had on file was another address in Pattaya. It took them less than a week to track me down....

These threads - 'Frozen Pensions', 'Sick/demented Brits stranded in Thailand', 'Entitlements to free NHS treatment', 'The rising costs of passports and Exorbitant fees charged by the British consulate', will reinvent themselves and go on forever, along with all the other regulars like 'Are you insulted when called a Farang?' and 'How do I get my fiance a visa - does it matter if I have only known her for 2 days?' and so on......

It would make a nice parlour game. A group of people sitting around a mini-mart beer table have to think in turn of a well known thread from Thai visa. After a few hours, anyone who fails to come up with another well used thread drops out until only the winner is left, who then buys the losers a round of Chang. I reckon I could quite well at that

I agree with this one,...anyway I'm off to the F1 in KL soon so cannot chatter any longer,only to say that from what I have seen the only people that are affected by frozen pensions are the idiots who informed them in Newcastle,some of them 10 years ago or so certainly are upset.

Equally I know individuals receiving the OAP paid directly into their foreign bank with no frozen aspect ,some on pension credits,again no frozen aspect.

Not to defeat anybody concerning having UK number in Thailand or "virtual address ,it is only illegal if it is used illegally ,I am not doing anything, another sim in my 'phone tomorrow (Malaysian) text code and UK number in use there.

All too concerned with Big Brother, the only guy I ever knew to be caught out was told to repay his winter fuel allowance.

Anyway to me personally the OAP is dwarfed by my other private pension,its just tea money

[cardholder]

+1 for Mobi

Be careful that you are not confusing residency status for taxation reasons with residency status for NHS treatment regulations.

It is well known and clear to everyone that the HMRC will use any tactic possible to link ex-pats to the UK taxation system. There was a prominent court case on the issue last year.

The test applied by the HMRC is different from the test applied by the NHS.

Anyway.........surely it's out of order to start a new thread to continue an argument from another thread?

No question about that. As soon as I started to process my claim for my FROZEN pension last year from my new address, HMRC were on to me for a tax return, and the only address they had on file was another address in Pattaya. It took them less than a week to track me down....

These threads - 'Frozen Pensions', 'Sick/demented Brits stranded in Thailand', 'Entitlements to free NHS treatment', 'The rising costs of passports and Exorbitant fees charged by the British consulate', will reinvent themselves and go on forever, along with all the other regulars like 'Are you insulted when called a Farang?' and 'How do I get my fiance a visa - does it matter if I have only known her for 2 days?' and so on......

It would make a nice parlour game. A group of people sitting around a mini-mart beer table have to think in turn of a well known thread from Thai visa. After a few hours, anyone who fails to come up with another well used thread drops out until only the winner is left, who then buys the losers a round of Chang. I reckon I could quite well at that

I agree with this one,...anyway I'm off to the F1 in KL soon so cannot chatter any longer,only to say that from what I have seen the only people that are affected by frozen pensions are the idiots who informed them in Newcastle,some of them 10 years ago or so certainly are upset.

Equally I know individuals receiving the OAP paid directly into their foreign bank with no frozen aspect ,some on pension credits,again no frozen aspect.

Not to defeat anybody concerning having UK number in Thailand or "virtual address ,it is only illegal if it is used illegally ,I am not doing anything, another sim in my 'phone tomorrow (Malaysian) text code and UK number in use there.

All too concerned with Big Brother, the only guy I ever knew to be caught out was told to repay his winter fuel allowance.

Anyway to me personally the OAP is dwarfed by my other private pension,its just tea money

Nice to learn that claiming benefits that you are not entitled to is no longer considered 'illegal'.

[cardholder]

Sale of overseas property is just one possible way of proving that the stated "permanent move back to the UK" is indeed permanent, there are doubtless many other ways to prove this point.

As far as April is concerned: the NHS had issued a green paper that discussed NHS services to UK ex-pats and this was discussed quite extensively on this site a while ago. The contents of the paper were finally agreed and a white paper was issued, as I understand things that was largely accepted and the end game anounced in April. I personally think that the rules will allow UK pensioners to holiday outside the UK for up to six months each year before losing their NHS enititlement since this will mesh with taxation rules (183 day rule). I also expect however that whilst being generous with the time overseas rule there will other requirements that must be met in order to maintain UK residency and NHS eligibility.

There is no requirement to 'prove' a permanent move back the UK - as there is no proof required to declare yourself non-resident.

The obvious thing to consider is that you are likely to only get one shot at the permanent return.

[exeter]

I think for the overridig number of replies to your OP the scenarios you live in is not the ones that the many others recognize or live in. You seem to think you have covered all the angles, as you see the situation, others in the UK may very see the world in a different light and as they are "the referee" they will make the decisions and you will have to accept them.

The rules are the rules, whether we like them or not, understand them and play by them and you can try and sort out your future plans and fund them.

I guess you dont like what most people are telling you, no one likes to be told they are wrong, you would be better to accept that and think again.

[23962323]

+1 for Mobi

Be careful that you are not confusing residency status for taxation reasons with residency status for NHS treatment regulations.

It is well known and clear to everyone that the HMRC will use any tactic possible to link ex-pats to the UK taxation system. There was a prominent court case on the issue last year.

The test applied by the HMRC is different from the test applied by the NHS.

Anyway.........surely it's out of order to start a new thread to continue an argument from another thread?

No question about that. As soon as I started to process my claim for my FROZEN pension last year from my new address, HMRC were on to me for a tax return, and the only address they had on file was another address in Pattaya. It took them less than a week to track me down....

These threads - 'Frozen Pensions', 'Sick/demented Brits stranded in Thailand', 'Entitlements to free NHS treatment', 'The rising costs of passports and Exorbitant fees charged by the British consulate', will reinvent themselves and go on forever, along with all the other regulars like 'Are you insulted when called a Farang?' and 'How do I get my fiance a visa - does it matter if I have only known her for 2 days?' and so on......

It would make a nice parlour game. A group of people sitting around a mini-mart beer table have to think in turn of a well known thread from Thai visa. After a few hours, anyone who fails to come up with another well used thread drops out until only the winner is left, who then buys the losers a round of Chang. I reckon I could quite well at that

I agree with this one,...anyway I'm off to the F1 in KL soon so cannot chatter any longer,only to say that from what I have seen the only people that are affected by frozen pensions are the idiots who informed them in Newcastle,some of them 10 years ago or so certainly are upset.

Equally I know individuals receiving the OAP paid directly into their foreign bank with no frozen aspect ,some on pension credits,again no frozen aspect.

Not to defeat anybody concerning having UK number in Thailand or "virtual address ,it is only illegal if it is used illegally ,I am not doing anything, another sim in my 'phone tomorrow (Malaysian) text code and UK number in use there.

All too concerned with Big Brother, the only guy I ever knew to be caught out was told to repay his winter fuel allowance.

Anyway to me personally the OAP is dwarfed by my other private pension,its just tea money

Nice to learn that claiming benefits that you are not entitled to is no longer considered 'illegal'.

Strewth,......Nothing illegal,not been in receipt of anything long enough to have done anything illegal

Mods please close this thread down, I've had enough of it PLEASE JUST SHUT IT DOWN

[metisdead]

Closed as per OP request.