Claims Of Illicit Land Use In Phuket Probed

[webfact]

FOREST ENCROACHMENT

Claims of illicit land use in Phuket probed

THE NATION

PHUKET: -- A survey of land use in Phuket is underway after claims that resorts and tourism businesses in the island province may have encroached into restricted or forest reserve areas.

The check has been prompted by a recent finding that 65 rai (10.4 hectares) on Freedom Beach currently used by resorts had intruded into a forest reserve in Phuket, said Royal Forest Department director-general Suwit Rattanamanee.

"The land-ownership documents have been issued unlawfully, and revocation of them would involve the Land Department," he said.

An RFD inspection will also begin soon in nearby Krabi province, where suspected encroachment of restricted land is reportedly widespread, he said. There is a case of a hotel located on a sloped area, which should not be lawfully transferable land, he added.

A crackdown will be launched soon in five provinces in other regions - Phetchabun, Lampang and Chiang Rai in the North, Kanchanaburi in the West, Rayong and Chanthaburi in the East.

"Encroachment on land in these provinces involves large areas, from 100 to 1,000 rai, for farming and rubber plantation," he said.

Speaking yesterday at an exhibition marking World Forestry Day and Thailand's National Forest Conservation Day, Suwit said the RFD would soon begin a restoration programme at the source of waterways in eight key river basins in the North.

The first project in Phrae province is aimed at expanding the areas to 80,000 rai this year, and to 400,000 rai in the next four years.

-- The Nation 2012-03-22

[theblether]

You don't say

[jalansanitwong]

This is old news. Any foreigner who is silly enough to buy land in Phuket deserves whats coming next.

There has always been a question mark over the legality of land development in Phuket.

Go there for a holiday but dont buy anything there. You cant legally own it anyway.

[whybother]

Again ..................

[Soupdragon]

Shame they couldn't stop the development before the beach backdrop became another scar on the landscape.

Like locusts the developers will spread across every naturally beautiful area and replace it with concrete.

[KarenBravo]

This is old news. Any foreigner who is silly enough to buy land in Phuket deserves whats coming next.

There has always been a question mark over the legality of land development in Phuket.

Go there for a holiday but dont buy anything there. You cant legally own it anyway.

Utter rubbish!

As long as you don't buy hill-side land, you'll be OK.

I've been on the property ladder since 1990. Made lots of money and have stayed in Phuket for free (no rent).

[maidu]

I've secured properties in northern Thailand. All rural, all no title. Possibly forest land, but locals don't know for sure. What is sure is each piece was weed choked with sticker bushes between 2 and 4 meters tall - to the extent that no hominid could take two steps on any sq.M of the properties. You wouldn't believe it if you saw the parcels today, as they look like beautiful parks, with lawns and trees. I've planted over 2,000 thousand trees of all types, fruit, nut, ornamental, legume. Some are 2 feet in diameter at chest height. All my neighbors have weed-covered properties and if they try clearing, they either burn and/or apply heaps of toxins (all have packs of barking dogs, but that's another topic). Reason for my rant: If left to Thais, most rural properties would stay weed choked and pesticide riven. Plus, all mammals and most birds would be eradicated. If farang are allowed to take care of properties, then.........(I'll let you fill in the blanks).

[Soupdragon]

Interesting to see the website advertising the land for sale behind Freedom Beach has been shut down.

[Sing_Sling]

I wonder what will happen to the people who accepted the 'facilitation fee' for the land-grants

[sparebox2]

Shame..... Mostly Farang set up proxy Thai companies to buy land from Thai people.

This loop hole should be closed.

[steelepulse]

Shame..... Mostly Farang set up proxy Thai companies to buy land from Thai people.

This loop hole should be closed.

And who is selling the land? Doesn't a transaction take both a seller and a buyer?

[FOODLOVER]

Shame..... Mostly Farang set up proxy Thai companies to buy land from Thai people.

This loop hole should be closed.

Why do Thai people sell to the evil white man? Why do the people in the land office give out illegal land title deeds in national parks. No Farang working there. Try using the word foreigner as the way you use it is quite derogatory. Khun Troll.

[Ferangled]

Why is it always chalked up to the big bad developer (aka evil ferang)? It's laughable. Who is it that controls the issue of land documents, building permits etc.? We are continually reminded that this is after all a country where ferang can't legally own land.

Property development is a business. The aim? To make money. If land wasn't sold & permits weren't issued there wouldn't be any development. It really is that simple.

As far as Phuket goes there was plenty of damage done before the property developers moved in. Tin mining? Coral-life in Phang Nga bay was devastated long before anyone built a hotel on the east coast of the island. Let alone the 100s of rai of natural vegetation destroyed to plant rubber... I see the fires raging on Koh Yao Yai now as more natural vegetation gets destroyed.

On the west coast of Phuket it has been proven again and again that there is plenty of money to be made by developing housing/ hotels. This will continue until someone stops selling land and issuing permits to build. In my opinion this should have been stopped years ago, it's development run mad, but blaming the developers is like blaming your dog for eating when you put a bowl of dog food in front of him.

Why does no one ever complain about the amount of revenue/ jobs these foreign developers have created for Thailand? Let alone the fact that most of us would have nowhere to live without them.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[sparebox2]

Interesting to see the website advertising the land for sale behind Freedom Beach has been shut down.

You mean this

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

or

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/real-estate/land-for-rent-or-sale/phuket-province-freedom-beach-unit-beach-front-86669.html

[Soupdragon]

You mean this

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

or

http://classifieds.t...ront-86669.html

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

This site was up and running a few weeks back.

[silsburyhill]

You mean this

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

or

http://classifieds.t...ront-86669.html

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

This site was up and running a few weeks back.

You mean this

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

or

http://classifieds.t...ront-86669.html

www.freedombeachphuket.com/

This site was up and running a few weeks back.

Well not any more it's not. And my God, that Conrad eyesore! Who on earth produced that?!

[metisdead]

A reply to a previously deleted post has been removed.

[steelepulse]

Looks like the hosting bill wasn't paid.

[sparebox2]

Looks like the hosting bill wasn't paid.

Or someone having shares in a large luxury US hotel chain.

[Soupdragon]

Looks like the hosting bill wasn't paid.

Nope, it's paid up till 9/3/2013. Must be another reason it has been suspended.

Domain Name: FREEDOMBEACHPHUKET.COM

Created on: 09-Mar-10

Expires on: 09-Mar-13

Edited March 22, 2012 by Soupdragon

[Tanaka]

Why is it always chalked up to the big bad developer (aka evil ferang)? It's laughable. Who is it that controls the issue of land documents, building permits etc.? We are continually reminded that this is after all a country where ferang can't legally own land.

Property development is a business. The aim? To make money. If land wasn't sold & permits weren't issued there wouldn't be any development. It really is that simple.

As far as Phuket goes there was plenty of damage done before the property developers moved in. Tin mining? Coral-life in Phang Nga bay was devastated long before anyone built a hotel on the east coast of the island. Let alone the 100s of rai of natural vegetation destroyed to plant rubber... I see the fires raging on Koh Yao Yai now as more natural vegetation gets destroyed.

On the west coast of Phuket it has been proven again and again that there is plenty of money to be made by developing housing/ hotels. This will continue until someone stops selling land and issuing permits to build. In my opinion this should have been stopped years ago, it's development run mad, but blaming the developers is like blaming your dog for eating when you put a bowl of dog food in front of him.

Why does no one ever complain about the amount of revenue/ jobs these foreign developers have created for Thailand? Let alone the fact that most of us would have nowhere to live without them.

Your logic is like cork screw, twisted. If you live on a property that was bought from someone who did not own it, it is not yours and you are squatting. And you should be worried.

And your comment about how much money foreign developers have created for Thailand, is like saying drug sellers have created a lot of money for Thailand. Illegal either way. But hey, you live there so it should be allowed, right? Wrong.

[Ferangled]

Why is it always chalked up to the big bad developer (aka evil ferang)? It's laughable. Who is it that controls the issue of land documents, building permits etc.? We are continually reminded that this is after all a country where ferang can't legally own land.

Property development is a business. The aim? To make money. If land wasn't sold & permits weren't issued there wouldn't be any development. It really is that simple.

As far as Phuket goes there was plenty of damage done before the property developers moved in. Tin mining? Coral-life in Phang Nga bay was devastated long before anyone built a hotel on the east coast of the island. Let alone the 100s of rai of natural vegetation destroyed to plant rubber... I see the fires raging on Koh Yao Yai now as more natural vegetation gets destroyed.

On the west coast of Phuket it has been proven again and again that there is plenty of money to be made by developing housing/ hotels. This will continue until someone stops selling land and issuing permits to build. In my opinion this should have been stopped years ago, it's development run mad, but blaming the developers is like blaming your dog for eating when you put a bowl of dog food in front of him.

Why does no one ever complain about the amount of revenue/ jobs these foreign developers have created for Thailand? Let alone the fact that most of us would have nowhere to live without them.

Your logic is like cork screw, twisted. If you live on a property that was bought from someone who did not own it, it is not yours and you are squatting. And you should be worried.

And your comment about how much money foreign developers have created for Thailand, is like saying drug sellers have created a lot of money for Thailand. Illegal either way. But hey, you live there so it should be allowed, right? Wrong.

Sorry but please try to be specific in stating what logic I have used that is twisted... you're reading my post but failing to understand any of the content.

I haven't mentioned buying property from someone that didn't own it. I didn't even touch on that in my post.

The OP states "The land-ownership documents have been issued unlawfully, and revocation of them would involve the Land Department,"

In other words the Land Department is at fault not the developers, who have tried to act in accordance with the law. As far as the developers were concerned this was a totally legal deal, hence the land-ownership documents.

Comparing construction of property to drug dealing... now that is a good example of twisted logic. Unless you live in a cave or a tree you are being a hypocrite, pure and simple.

Clearly there is ethical development and non ethical development and much of what we see in Thailand is totally unethical and damaging to the environment. My point is that blaming the developers is a total waste of time, it is not down to them to control the sale of land and issue of building permits... do you understand?

I'm not trying to put a point out there for discussion it's a fact, like or not. Very sorry if you don't like it but neither I nor any developer is in a position to change the laws of the land.

Please read my post again, take your time and try to actually digest the points that I made. I am not in favor of over development or the exploitation of Thailand for personal gain, I am in favor of intelligent debate and pointing the finger at the right people, rather than witch hunting the "evil white man developers".

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why is it always chalked up to the big bad developer (aka evil ferang)? It's laughable. Who is it that controls the issue of land documents, building permits etc.? We are continually reminded that this is after all a country where ferang can't legally own land.

Property development is a business. The aim? To make money. If land wasn't sold & permits weren't issued there wouldn't be any development. It really is that simple.

As far as Phuket goes there was plenty of damage done before the property developers moved in. Tin mining? Coral-life in Phang Nga bay was devastated long before anyone built a hotel on the east coast of the island. Let alone the 100s of rai of natural vegetation destroyed to plant rubber... I see the fires raging on Koh Yao Yai now as more natural vegetation gets destroyed.

On the west coast of Phuket it has been proven again and again that there is plenty of money to be made by developing housing/ hotels. This will continue until someone stops selling land and issuing permits to build. In my opinion this should have been stopped years ago, it's development run mad, but blaming the developers is like blaming your dog for eating when you put a bowl of dog food in front of him.

Why does no one ever complain about the amount of revenue/ jobs these foreign developers have created for Thailand? Let alone the fact that most of us would have nowhere to live without them.

Your logic is like cork screw, twisted. If you live on a property that was bought from someone who did not own it, it is not yours and you are squatting. And you should be worried.

And your comment about how much money foreign developers have created for Thailand, is like saying drug sellers have created a lot of money for Thailand. Illegal either way. But hey, you live there so it should be allowed, right? Wrong.

Sorry but please try to be specific in stating what logic I have used that is twisted... you're reading my post but failing to understand any of the content.

I haven't mentioned buying property from someone that didn't own it. I didn't even touch on that in my post.

The OP states "The land-ownership documents have been issued unlawfully, and revocation of them would involve the Land Department,"

In other words the Land Department is at fault not the developers, who have tried to act in accordance with the law. As far as the developers were concerned this was a totally legal deal, hence the land-ownership documents.

Comparing construction of property to drug dealing... now that is a good example of twisted logic. Unless you live in a cave or a tree you are being a hypocrite, pure and simple.

Clearly there is ethical development and non ethical development and much of what we see in Thailand is totally unethical and damaging to the environment. My point is that blaming the developers is a total waste of time, it is not down to them to control the sale of land and issue of building permits... do you understand?

I'm not trying to put a point out there for discussion it's a fact, like or not. Very sorry if you don't like it but neither I nor any developer is in a position to change the laws of the land.

Please read my post again, take your time and try to actually digest the points that I made. I am not in favor of over development or the exploitation of Thailand for personal gain, I am in favor of intelligent debate and pointing the finger at the right people, rather than witch hunting the "evil white man developers".

And the winner is........ YOU!!!!!

[vijer]

I've secured properties in northern Thailand. All rural, all no title. Possibly forest land, but locals don't know for sure. What is sure is each piece was weed choked with sticker bushes between 2 and 4 meters tall - to the extent that no hominid could take two steps on any sq.M of the properties. You wouldn't believe it if you saw the parcels today, as they look like beautiful parks, with lawns and trees. I've planted over 2,000 thousand trees of all types, fruit, nut, ornamental, legume. Some are 2 feet in diameter at chest height. All my neighbors have weed-covered properties and if they try clearing, they either burn and/or apply heaps of toxins (all have packs of barking dogs, but that's another topic). Reason for my rant: If left to Thais, most rural properties would stay weed choked and pesticide riven. Plus, all mammals and most birds would be eradicated. If farang are allowed to take care of properties, then.........(I'll let you fill in the blanks).

Exactly, but I bet none of your Thai neighbors even notice that your property is beautiful.

I really think they like looking at shit everyday all day. Even if you're poor it doesn't take much effort to pick up the garbage on your property and put it in a bag for collection. But if you're Thai you just dump more garbage on your own property and your neighbors.

[Ferangled]

I've secured properties in northern Thailand. All rural, all no title. Possibly forest land, but locals don't know for sure. What is sure is each piece was weed choked with sticker bushes between 2 and 4 meters tall - to the extent that no hominid could take two steps on any sq.M of the properties. You wouldn't believe it if you saw the parcels today, as they look like beautiful parks, with lawns and trees. I've planted over 2,000 thousand trees of all types, fruit, nut, ornamental, legume. Some are 2 feet in diameter at chest height. All my neighbors have weed-covered properties and if they try clearing, they either burn and/or apply heaps of toxins (all have packs of barking dogs, but that's another topic). Reason for my rant: If left to Thais, most rural properties would stay weed choked and pesticide riven. Plus, all mammals and most birds would be eradicated. If farang are allowed to take care of properties, then.........(I'll let you fill in the blanks).

Exactly, but I bet none of your Thai neighbors even notice that your property is beautiful.

I really think they like looking at shit everyday all day. Even if you're poor it doesn't take much effort to pick up the garbage on your property and put it in a bag for collection. But if you're Thai you just dump more garbage on your own property and your neighbors.

I think you're being slightly xenophobic and I'd suggest this is more an issue of class/ wealth than simply "being Thai".

Sadly when one has nothing, & struggles to find food and shelter, it's hard to stimulate a feeling of being part of a community and so encourage a desire to keep your environment clean. That said I see 100s of people literally scraping a living by recycling scraps of rubbish of the streets daily here.

I'd also suggest this has very little to do with OP...

[bigbamboo]

I've secured properties in northern Thailand. All rural, all no title. Possibly forest land, but locals don't know for sure. What is sure is each piece was weed choked with sticker bushes between 2 and 4 meters tall - to the extent that no hominid could take two steps on any sq.M of the properties. You wouldn't believe it if you saw the parcels today, as they look like beautiful parks, with lawns and trees. I've planted over 2,000 thousand trees of all types, fruit, nut, ornamental, legume. Some are 2 feet in diameter at chest height. All my neighbors have weed-covered properties and if they try clearing, they either burn and/or apply heaps of toxins (all have packs of barking dogs, but that's another topic). Reason for my rant: If left to Thais, most rural properties would stay weed choked and pesticide riven. Plus, all mammals and most birds would be eradicated. If farang are allowed to take care of properties, then.........(I'll let you fill in the blanks).

@ Maidu....... You sound somewhat like us, with a property that looks like an oasis in a desert of Thainess. Luckily I married a Thai who prefers plants and gardening to gold and eating.

@ Ferrangled....... Agree maybe a little off topic but still better than yet another land grab whodunnit. And although money helps obviously in CM you still see plenty of poor families keeping their home looking nice whilst also seeing nice shiny SUVs outside junk filled dumps.

Edited March 23, 2012 by bigbamboo

[Ferangled]

I've secured properties in northern Thailand. All rural, all no title. Possibly forest land, but locals don't know for sure. What is sure is each piece was weed choked with sticker bushes between 2 and 4 meters tall - to the extent that no hominid could take two steps on any sq.M of the properties. You wouldn't believe it if you saw the parcels today, as they look like beautiful parks, with lawns and trees. I've planted over 2,000 thousand trees of all types, fruit, nut, ornamental, legume. Some are 2 feet in diameter at chest height. All my neighbors have weed-covered properties and if they try clearing, they either burn and/or apply heaps of toxins (all have packs of barking dogs, but that's another topic). Reason for my rant: If left to Thais, most rural properties would stay weed choked and pesticide riven. Plus, all mammals and most birds would be eradicated. If farang are allowed to take care of properties, then.........(I'll let you fill in the blanks).

@ Maidu....... You sound somewhat like us, with a property that looks like an oasis in a desert of Thainess. Luckily I married a Thai who prefers plants and gardening to gold and eating.

@ Ferrangled....... Agree maybe a little off topic but still better than yet another land grab whodunnit. And although money helps obviously in CM you still see plenty of poor families keeping their home looking nice whilst also seeing nice shiny SUVs outside junk filled dumps.

Totally agree, some individuals respect their environment, others don't; this is something you will see internationally, it is not restricted to Thailand. It's suggesting it's purely because "they are Thai" that I disagree with, it's a sweeping generalization that frankly doesn't ring true at all, and varies across the country from area to area.

IMO much of this variation in environmental awareness is linked to income, education, class etc, as it is in most countries. Just my opinion (and completely off, yes a rather dull, topic!)

[sparebox2]

Farang land grab Thailand. Sad, but true.

[maidu]

Shame..... Mostly Farang set up proxy Thai companies to buy land from Thai people.

This loop hole should be closed.

And who is selling the land? Doesn't a transaction take both a seller and a buyer?

Farang land grab Thailand. Sad, but true.

There are several ways to view the same issue. Some perspectives can be 'sad' (as you say) but often it's a win-win. The prior owner gets money (maybe she sold just a small portion of his property). Plus, most likey the parcel sold for highly inflated price - compared to a few years earlier. Granted, this makes first time purchases costly for locals (as has happened in Hawaii , south Spain, Greece, etc), but again, it's a multi-faceted issue.

In many countries, foreigners can purchase properties in their names, and usually the plusses outnumber the minuses. Ironically, one of the biggest 'anti-farang buying land' advocates is/was Thaksin, yet he owns bunches of parcels in various other countries. For awhile, he owned land in Thailand while not having a Thai passport (was that illegal at the time, as he was then a farang himself?). Actually, last time I checked, having more than one passport is illegal in Thailand. A farang I know got caught with two passports by Immigration and was yelled at by authorities and almost deported. Does that mean, if T returns, he will also be in hot water - for having half a dozen passports (and at least one pseudonym)?