Foreigner Assaulted At Bangkok BTS Station By Security Guard - Police Launch Investigation

[Ulysses G.]

They should have thrashed him more?

[TAWP]

They should have thrashed him more?

Or stopped him from entering the train - if he really was a security threat.

[KeyserSoze01]

The outcome could have been much worse.

Here is but one example of transit police overstepping their bounds and killing a suspect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant

[Nisa]

They should have thrashed him more?

Or stopped him from entering the train - if he really was a security threat.

It is my understanding he didn't make it on the train.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I object to your shameful cropping of my posting and then pretending to state a new point, when you are basically stating part of what I said.

I only cropped your post (as I have done above again) because I was only addressing that part of your post which was an accusation towards me. There was no reason to include the entire post, and it has been encouraged (and enforced) by some mods in the past, to only quote the relevant part of the post. I apologize if you feel I somehow took your words out of context but that was neither the intent or in my opinion the result as I simply deleted a separate paragraph that had nothing to do with your accusation leveled against me which is all I was addressing.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Nisa

[Pseudolus]

At the end of the day it boils down to the Irishman saying..........." I was wrong, but it was wrong to beat me up twice ".

Sounds fair enough to me.

Would be quite acceptable if he had said "I was wrong, but did nothing that might have provoked them to hit my on the bonce and I certainly did not push or threaten a female guard - that is all lies" or something to that effect.

(couldn't really give a toss either way though - just interested now to see how far these threads will go now. Combined I reckon they are up to 150 pages already)

[Nisa]

Which part do "we all know" is false, exactly?

The part I tried to make very clear in my post which is underlined in the bold and indented text in the post which is quoted from the first sentence of the OP news story.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Nisa

[Reasonableman]

Because he was apparently assaulted a second time. By a guard or a member of the public?

They should have thrashed him more?

Or stopped him from entering the train - if he really was a security threat.

It is my understanding he didn't make it on the train.

[Heng]

Seems like a lot of the anger is some kind of collective embarrassment. Could have been worse, he could have been beat up by janitors or street sweepers.

[metisdead]

A post containing profane derogatory comments towards Thais has been removed.

[wintermute]

Seems like a lot of the anger is some kind of collective embarrassment. Could have been worse, he could have been beat up by janitors or street sweepers.

What I don't get is why Mr. Irish english teacher didn't just turn right around and go take a taxi. He was even traveling around with 3 people, one of which was a small child. The whole incident could have been averted with a simple compromise that would have cost under 200 baht. Instead he tried to force the issue and made the lowly uneducated BTS civil servant/guard lose face and act like what typical lowly uneducated blue collar employees do when angered and confronted with scenarios they don't understand or aren't prepared for.

Plus he supposedly works for a major international school and he was still too cheap to compromise.

If he forced the issue in some place like the subway system in New York or even the good ole' cal trans system in CA he would have found himself with way more problems on his hands than a simple bruised and bloodied forehead. In the U.S. these antics would have cost him a major fine, a date in court, and a possible tazing/ass kickin' somewhere away from prying eyes.

Edited March 24, 2012 by wintermute

[wintermute]

-He arrived at station

-He was confronted by a guard and told he couldn't take all of the balloons on the train

-He was angry about that because had been allowed to do just that plus the ballons were his daughters property (faher's are protective)

-He showed his anger by kicking a trashcan

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Like I said. Try the same antics in front of security in some major U.S. city and he would have received far worse penalties. His biggest mistake was showing aggressive and loud behavior first.

[Reasonableman]

This has all been said before ad infinitum ad nauseam. The horse is dead, let it rest in peace. AND... Have a good evening.

Seems like a lot of the anger is some kind of collective embarrassment. Could have been worse, he could have been beat up by janitors or street sweepers.

What I don't get is why Mr. Irish english teacher didn't just turn right around and go take a taxi. He was even traveling around with 3 people, one of which was a small child. The whole incident could have been averted with a simple compromise that would have cost under 200 baht. Instead he tried to force the issue and made the lowly uneducated BTS civil servant/guard lose face and act like what typical lowly uneducated blue collar employees do when angered and confronted with scenarios they don't understand or aren't prepared for.

Plus he supposedly works for a major international school and he was still too cheap to compromise.

If he forced the issue in some place like the subway system in New York or even the good ole' cal trans system in CA he would have found himself with way more problems on his hands than a simple bruised and bloodied forehead. In the U.S. these antics would have cost him a major fine, a date in court, and a possible tazing/ass kickin' somewhere away from prying eyes.

[wintermute]

In the west, an authority instructs you to do or not do something, you comply. If the authority was acting outside of his granted powers, you can file a complaint, perhaps get damages.

The guy said he didn't know it was against the rules to take balloons on the BTS. So what? The authority said no, you obey, not shove.

Problem is, the "authorities" here don't look anything like cops in the west. Look like easy pickings. Try shoving an LAPD uniform out of the way, or a NY Transit cop aside, and watch what happens. This guy should consider himself lucky. I seriously doubt he would have made the same moves "back home". And if he had, he'd have to come up with bail. The Thais let him walk away. He should be thankful.

Yeah that's why i'm laughing at this whole incident. This guy wouldn't last 5 minutes around cops in a major U.S. city behaving this way. He would get stomped on hard mouthing off and acting all aggressive like that. I remember some guy flipped out in the BART system and the cops there just outright shot him down because they thought he was armed. That was very controversial because it involved deadly force but cops and laws regarding public transit are even more serious in countries like the U.S. especially.

Who is to say he didn't have any kind of deadly gas in those balloons? These security guards aren't paid to figure that out they are just there to follow blanket guidelines to keep people safe. People on here saying it wasn't such a big deal to have balloons are the same people who were probably claiming the terror alerts were all U.S. media hype. There's a lot of shady activity going on in Bangkok the officials are right in this case to offer no leeway in what they let on.

[Nisa]

They should have thrashed him more?

Or stopped him from entering the train - if he really was a security threat.

It is my understanding he didn't make it on the train.

Because he was apparently assaulted a second time. By a guard or a member of the public?

At this point, it certainly seems to be the apparent he (Irish guy) was struck again and based on his own statements to date, I also have no reason to believe that he suddenly decided, after forcing his way up the stairs, to start following instructions and rules on his own. So, based on his behavior on the video we have seen and his own words I would find it highly probable he was struck again on the platform and probably encountered a larger show of force that finally made him retreat.

Edit: But to be clear this is only speculation and my opinion based on info we have now ... but you asked.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Nisa

[EyesWideOpen]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

????? Clearly you do not subscribe to the mama bear and her cub theory of defensive violence...... Mess with either one, and you get the claws.......I still think the guy showed restraint in not attacking the guard. If I was out with my daughter, and a Thai guy attacked me, my first thought would be that I MUST win, for the sake of my daughter. Grabbing up my daughter and running away like a rat would not be my first course of action....

Spoken like a ...... an animal?

Much of human behavior mimics animals. Perhaps you took sociology classes in college ? Or perhaps not....

Due to the interest in this case, I still feel all the facts should come out. Not to satisfy the sleuths who reside on this board , but rather to come clean in the interests of transparency. Release the tapes of what happened , and let the chips fall where they. With the refusal of the BTS to release the tapes, this is starting to look like the classic sweep unpleasant events under the rug, and hope everyone forgets next month.

[meand]

The things that I have heard out of the own guys mouth are just priceless..... "I was wrong".... right, you were. Now shut up and deal with the consequences, especially considering the fact that you aren't in your own country.

Paraphrased from wife and others "They let me on with the balloons before, and the balloons had sentimental value" ...... uhh, being able to break a rule one time and not the next isn't a good argument buddy, and my latte has sentimental value too..... boo <deleted> hoo and get a clue.

This guy is the worst of the worst to me. He has no problem with starting a conflict, getting Thai men who probably have mouths to feed fired, straining Thai/farang relations to a greater extent, potentially making the BTS public transit system less safe for us all (how do these poor security guys deal with the next unstable farang?). All that while not even in your own country, great job. If he wanted all that to disappear, he could.... but his ego wouldn't let him. Narcissism and selfishness at their finest..... me me me, "I was wrong," but still.... me me me...... story continues.

I really feel sorry for this guy's wife.

Edited March 24, 2012 by meand

[wintermute]

All I can say is i've been through the BTS and MRT system hundreds of times..possibly thousands by now and i've never had a guard flip out and whale on me with their metal detector. In fact most of them are unfailingly polite..much more polite than immigration officials for that matter and usually wave you through with just a smile and glance inside your bag or backpack.

There's no way this guy just got hit for nothing. It's obvious to any thinking person that he instigated a lot of it through his attitude/mouth and then the security guard reacted unprofessionally to losing face. Both parties are at "fault" but one side started something he had no way of finishing.

I don't believe this guy would have behaved the same way in Dublin or wherever he's from.

[Nisa]

Much of human behavior mimics animals. Perhaps you took sociology classes in college ? Or perhaps not....

Due to the interest in this case, I still feel all the facts should come out. Not to satisfy the sleuths who reside on this board , but rather to come clean in the interests of transparency. Release the tapes of what happened , and let the chips fall where they. With the refusal of the BTS to release the tapes, this is starting to look like the classic sweep unpleasant events under the rug, and hope everyone forgets next month.

The BTS gave the tapes to the police. It should be up to the police to release them to the public and decide if doing so would hinder their investigation or prosecution (such as changing witness' accounts after they see the video and incident from a different angle). This is also not the west and am sure there is thought putting into releasing them based on if it is in the public's best interest, especially at this time, given how emotional some people have got over the issue and made it into a race issue.

Looking at the video already put out on Youtube there are many who have been incapable of putting ANY responsibility on the Irish guy though many folks seem to be calming down now that the guy admits he was at least partially in the wrong. Then you have the other side who go to the extent of saying the whole incident seems like a set-up by the Irish Guy.

Bottom line is videos are not going to change opinions of emotional and racist people (on either side) who want to believe and see what they want and regardless of what is captured and not on the tapes, the result will be to simply inflame these people more. And it is unfair to state the BTS is covering anything up given their handling (that we are aware) of the situation since it occurred. It would be highly inappropriate for the BTS to release this videos publicly not just because it is now a police investigation but because it would simply just be as wrong as putting together a montage of people picking their nose in the station and then releasing that footage on youtube ... so far, BTS head officials have shown a lot greater class than doing anything like this.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Nisa

[Reasonableman]

Especially if the videos showed you are all wrong, eh? How embarrassing.

[wintermute]

Especially if the videos showed you are all wrong, eh? How embarrassing.

What exactly are people "wrong" about ? He instigated something by being mouthy and having a bad attitude. He probably thought he deserved special treatment.

[Nisa]

All I can say is i've been through the BTS and MRT system hundreds of times..possibly thousands by now and i've never had a guard flip out and whale on me with their metal detector. In fact most of them are unfailingly polite..much more polite than immigration officials for that matter and usually wave you through with just a smile and glance inside your bag or backpack.

There's no way this guy just got hit for nothing. It's obvious to any thinking person that he instigated a lot of it through his attitude/mouth and then the security guard reacted unprofessionally to losing face. Both parties are at "fault" but one side started something he had no way of finishing.

I don't believe this guy would have behaved the same way in Dublin or wherever he's from.

I feel a bit guilty when I go through (MRT much more than BTS) because even when I make the machine beep and am carrying something, they never check me as they do locals. I have never once had a bad experience with staff and they usually are incredibly nice to me from salutes to words and even trying to practice their greetings with English phrases. The ticket booth people on the other hand usually have no personality but never rude. However, I am not naive and though I have never seen a Thai security guard anywhere on a power trip, as I do back home I am sure there are some bad ones out there and even if it doesn't sound logical in my mind, it is possible that the incident happened as some posters here have speculated and that a BTS Security guard snuck up from behind and smacked an innocent guy in the face with a weapon without any prior warning ... but this just doesn't seem the least bit logical in my mind.

I have about 20 plus security guards at my Condo complex with an array of batons, hand cuffs and walkie talkies and they are all great opening doors, directing traffic, helping with bags and so on but the few times there has been a ruckus with a drunk or something they all disappear as if they are cockroaches and a light has been turned on. I found it shocking the first time I witnessed this but then found that what would be shocking to locals is if the guards tried to intervene physically with somebody even if they were being violent, breaking rules or posing a threat.

[Nisa]

Especially if the videos showed you are all wrong, eh? How embarrassing.

What exactly are people "wrong" about ? He instigated something by being mouthy and having a bad attitude. He probably thought he deserved special treatment.

Am wondering the same thing ... that somehow this tape will prove the Irish guy did nothing wrong and the Irish guy is lying when he admits he did? I haven't seen too many posts in all these pages of anyone saying security didn't do anything wrong but just that we haven't seen their wrong doing on tape as we have this guys. I guess there is the hope for some (to protect all farang everywhere?) that the tape will somehow show something none of us can currently think of that will somehow excuse the guy's violent actions and refusal to obey rules and direction as we see on the video tape we currently have available.

[d44]

What exactly are people "wrong" about ?

wrong + wrong = right

[yellow1red1]

The things that I have heard out of the own guys mouth are just priceless..... "I was wrong".... right, you were. Now shut up and deal with the consequences, especially considering the fact that you aren't in your own country.

Paraphrased from wife and others "They let me on with the balloons before, and the balloons had sentimental value" ...... uhh, being able to break a rule one time and not the next isn't a good argument buddy, and my latte has sentimental value too..... boo <deleted> hoo and get a clue.

This guy is the worst of the worst to me. He has no problem with starting a conflict, getting Thai men who probably have mouths to feed fired, straining Thai/farang relations to a greater extent, potentially making the BTS public transit system less safe for us all (how do these poor security guys deal with the next unstable farang?). All that while not even in your own country, great job. If he wanted all that to disappear, he could.... but his ego wouldn't let him. Narcissism and selfishness at their finest..... me me me, "I was wrong," but still.... me me me...... story continues.

I really feel sorry for this guy's wife.

feel more sorry for the little girl... watch the part where she gives some of the balloons to the Supervisor who showed up, more brains than daddy WOT! just before dimwit kicks that guard, just missing his daughter with his foot.

It's alleged, no proof, that sometime before this tape starts he was whacked on the head for no reason. well that just doesn't make any sense. think about what you would do IF that did happen. stay at the scene, call the police, collect witnesses, NOT run and jump over turnstiles and start assaulting guards, 3 of them, including the woman guard he crashed into. oh he was brain injured? well he had a sensible friend with him, the one who headlocked him and saved him from even worse actions.

[henleyd]

Stupid, stipid, so stupid

[Ulysses G.]

All I can say is i've been through the BTS and MRT system hundreds of times..possibly thousands by now and i've never had a guard flip out and whale on me with their metal detector.

This has been my experience also and if the CCTV footage is ever released, I predict that the Irish guy brought this on himself in some regard. There are too many Westerners who think that the rules do not apply to them as Thais can often be so hesitant to confront them.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[thecornishman]

Nisa. I salute you. (for sticking to your guns)

Now, does anybody know how to make a perfect meringue?

Edited March 25, 2012 by thecornishman

[teatree]

In the west, an authority instructs you to do or not do something, you comply. If the authority was acting outside of his granted powers, you can file a complaint, perhaps get damages.

The guy said he didn't know it was against the rules to take balloons on the BTS. So what? The authority said no, you obey, not shove.

Problem is, the "authorities" here don't look anything like cops in the west. Look like easy pickings. Try shoving an LAPD uniform out of the way, or a NY Transit cop aside, and watch what happens. This guy should consider himself lucky. I seriously doubt he would have made the same moves "back home". And if he had, he'd have to come up with bail. The Thais let him walk away. He should be thankful.

Yeah that's why i'm laughing at this whole incident. This guy wouldn't last 5 minutes around cops in a major U.S. city behaving this way. He would get stomped on hard mouthing off and acting all aggressive like that. I remember some guy flipped out in the BART system and the cops there just outright shot him down because they thought he was armed. That was very controversial because it involved deadly force but cops and laws regarding public transit are even more serious in countries like the U.S. especially.

Who is to say he didn't have any kind of deadly gas in those balloons? These security guards aren't paid to figure that out they are just there to follow blanket guidelines to keep people safe. People on here saying it wasn't such a big deal to have balloons are the same people who were probably claiming the terror alerts were all U.S. media hype. There's a lot of shady activity going on in Bangkok the officials are right in this case to offer no leeway in what they let on.

God bLess America!

Land of the 'roid headed thugish police.

Yeeeeeee haaaaaaaa

[Nisa]

In the west, an authority instructs you to do or not do something, you comply. If the authority was acting outside of his granted powers, you can file a complaint, perhaps get damages.

The guy said he didn't know it was against the rules to take balloons on the BTS. So what? The authority said no, you obey, not shove.

Problem is, the "authorities" here don't look anything like cops in the west. Look like easy pickings. Try shoving an LAPD uniform out of the way, or a NY Transit cop aside, and watch what happens. This guy should consider himself lucky. I seriously doubt he would have made the same moves "back home". And if he had, he'd have to come up with bail. The Thais let him walk away. He should be thankful.

Yeah that's why i'm laughing at this whole incident. This guy wouldn't last 5 minutes around cops in a major U.S. city behaving this way. He would get stomped on hard mouthing off and acting all aggressive like that. I remember some guy flipped out in the BART system and the cops there just outright shot him down because they thought he was armed. That was very controversial because it involved deadly force but cops and laws regarding public transit are even more serious in countries like the U.S. especially.

Who is to say he didn't have any kind of deadly gas in those balloons? These security guards aren't paid to figure that out they are just there to follow blanket guidelines to keep people safe. People on here saying it wasn't such a big deal to have balloons are the same people who were probably claiming the terror alerts were all U.S. media hype. There's a lot of shady activity going on in Bangkok the officials are right in this case to offer no leeway in what they let on.

God bLess America!

Land of the 'roid headed thugish police.

Yeeeeeee haaaaaaaa

While I certainly don't condone the actions of thugish police in the US, being well aware of it, as in other places in the west, but it does make it hard to have much pitty on the Irish Guy after becoming so accustomed to seeing action like his (illegally forcing your way onto transit system & attacking staff) his met with much more severe and larger use of force by authorities at the station. Right or wrong, I have still have a hard time getting my head around that it is not appropriate for station staff to use whatever force would have been necessarily to stop this person from passing through the ticking area while at the same time ensuring the safety of themselves and other passengers. It would have been sad to watch him being clubbed into submission by many security or police but it this day and age and coming from the west, it is something that I have come to believe is the logical response & conclusion to such actions by a guy like this. However, this is not the west or the US and will leave it up to the the parties involved and the police to decide the proper outcome that is appropriate given Thai law and society.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Nisa