800K Retirement Visa Question

[nong38]

I was thinking at some time in the near future of going for a retirement visa, I know I have to have 800K in a Thai bank account 2/3 months prior for the application and passbook updated on day of application, right so far?

Now I was looking at the paper Immigration gave me with regard to this and it states 800K per year or 65000bts per month. So my question is this.

Do I have to withdraw the money ( 800K ) and then deposit it again 3 months prior to the application or in practice is it just left there?

Thanks for any advice forthcoming.

Edited March 25, 2012 by nong38

[Jingthing]

No, you don't need to withdraw or spend the money during the year. Typically, people withdraw some for living expenses and then top up to meet the next year's requirements in time for the three month seasoning period (two months for the first extension). If you just let the sum sit there, they may ask you about where your living in Thailand money source is coming from so you should be prepared to answer them. They would be fishing for you to confess you're working in Thailand, if you were, which is illegal on a retirement extension. If there is a legit answer and it can be shown, no worries.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

The requirement is 800,000 in a Thai Bank.

OR

65,000 Monthly Income.

OR

A Combination of the Two.

Once approved you can do what you want with the money as long as you top it up again in time for next year.

[nong38]

Thanks chums, to keep bringing in 800K would soon become a challenge!

[lopburi3]

If using bank deposit the requirement will be the 2 months in account in your name and an updated passbook plus a letter of account balance from bank manager to agree with passbook. Other than that being over age 50 and copy of your passport/visa/permitted to stay stamp and departure card plus 4x6cm photo taken within six months and 1,900 baht in cash. Several sets of copies may be required upcountry and you should have some proof of your residence.

[Jingthing]

Thanks chums, to keep bringing in 800K would soon become a challenge!

Good news for you as there is no need to spend any or all of it from the account. However, as stated if you spend some you need to top it up to that level every year. I have met people who think you show the 800K once and you're clear for life ... nope.

[mahjongguy]

...to keep bringing in 800K would soon become a challenge!

It's only US$26,000 a year. Many would say that's enough to survive on, but that's about all.

[Jingthing]

...to keep bringing in 800K would soon become a challenge!

It's only US$26,000 a year. Many would say that's enough to survive on, but that's about all.

That's a personal thing. Consider many retirees own condos and have no rent. There is no specific SPENDING or MONEY IMPORT requirement at all.

[NancyL]

I use the 800,000 baht bank account to justify my retirement extension and, yes, I have been asked how I provide for my living expenses when I haven't touched that account since I opened it over three years ago. I simply said my husband has more than enough pension income to provide for both of us. That's true, but I'm really glad he just waved away the passbook from our joint Bangkok Bank account when I offered to show it, since we have less than 65,000 baht/month flowing into that account. We also maintain a U.S. credit union account and one of Hubby's two pensions goes there to support our U.S.-based expenses. Still counts as income for his income requirement, though.

Edited March 25, 2012 by NancyL

[NancyL]

...to keep bringing in 800K would soon become a challenge!

It's only US$26,000 a year. Many would say that's enough to survive on, but that's about all.

That word hasn't reached the people who write magazine articles about how you can retire in Thailand on less than $500/month. Those people should be forced to actually come here and try to live on that amount for more than a month or two. Hope they don't become ill or have an accident!

Edited March 25, 2012 by NancyL

[Jingthing]

For those using the income method (65K baht per month) there is absolutely NO REQUIREMENT to prove import of that amount into Thailand.

More generally, if the officers see an application that makes them wonder how you are actually living in Thailand, they will indeed tend to ask some questions. So if that is you, be prepared to answer.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Jingthing

[thrilled]

i think the best thing would be to add 200000 to it.Then ya have a million baht.Maybe possible to get 4-5% interest on it a year.

[tutsiwarrior]

I worked part of last year and in December was able to go to the US embassy and truthfully declare that my overseas bank account credits, averaged over 12 months were USDxxk per month and greater than the thb65k requirement for the retirement extension of stay purposes and the income affidavit was then issued...

later at the Ayutthaya immigration office for my new yearly retirement extension in December I presented the affidavit which was accepted for my extension application...I also brought with me bank statements to support my income declaration but not required...

so, if you have an average monthly income from the previous year equal or greater than the thb65000 monthly requirement from whatever source (salary, pension, investments, etc.) there should not be a problem at thai immigration for the income requirement with an application for an extension of stay based upon retirement...

[NancyL]

Tutsiwarrior -- what you said is certainly true for Americans getting an income letter and doing their extension at Ayuttaya, however there have been reports that the Embassies of other countries or other Immigration offices require the income to be in the form of a pension -- an income stream that is uniform, reliable and can't be stopped once started. Income from overseas rental income or employment could fluctuate or cease, after all, according to the logic that some have been told.

Always best to learn the practices of your local immigration office with regard to people of your nationality. That's one reason this forum is so valuable!

[true blue]

Tutsiwarrior -- what you said is certainly true for Americans getting an income letter and doing their extension at Ayuttaya, however there have been reports that the Embassies of other countries or other Immigration offices require the income to be in the form of a pension -- an income stream that is uniform, reliable and can't be stopped once started. Income from overseas rental income or employment could fluctuate or cease, after all, according to the logic that some have been told.

Always best to learn the practices of your local immigration office with regard to people of your nationality. That's one reason this forum is so valuable!

they itemise all income/pension streams,in letter from uk counsulate,now also break it down to a monthly basis.

[TaoNow]

Jingthing: I respect your opinion...but what is your basis for stating the following in your posts above:

(1) "Typically, people withdraw some for living expenses;"

(2) "If you just let the sum sit there, they may ask you about where your living in Thailand money source is coming"; and

(3) "If the officers see an application that makes them wonder how you are actually living in Thailand, they will indeed tend to ask some questions" ?

I have tracked this section of the Forum for years on this topic and have seen no evidence that Immo anywhere routinely asks about how retirees use the 800K, or probes what the basis for their living expenses is.

They may do this in Pattaya -- but then you need to qualify your response.

The acid test is what Immo/Bangkok does as routine -- and after my 4 retirement extensions there, they have shown no interest in how I treat the 800K or where my life support comes from.

Just sayin'

[TaoNow]

Also -- tutsiwarrior -- you raise an important point (at least for us Yanks) that the minimum requirement for an honest retiremeint-visa affadavit at the US embassy would be a checking account (or cash under a mattress) anywhere in the world in the amount of ~ $27,000 since that is the amount required to pay yourself 65,000 baht per month for the coming year in Thailand.

If people are confused by this, you need to go back to earlier posts explaining why (I think) Immo has this financial requirement of us elder ex-pats.

[lopburi3]

There is no requirement for cash of 27k US or any other cash for income letter if you have a pension as is the case for many. Most get a pension from someone other than themselves.

[NancyL]

Jingthing: I respect your opinion...but what is your basis for stating the following in your posts above:

(1) "Typically, people withdraw some for living expenses;"

(2) "If you just let the sum sit there, they may ask you about where your living in Thailand money source is coming"; and

(3) "If the officers see an application that makes them wonder how you are actually living in Thailand, they will indeed tend to ask some questions" ?

I have tracked this section of the Forum for years on this topic and have seen no evidence that Immo anywhere routinely asks about how retirees use the 800K, or probes what the basis for their living expenses is.

They may do this in Pattaya -- but then you need to qualify your response.

The acid test is what Immo/Bangkok does as routine -- and after my 4 retirement extensions there, they have shown no interest in how I treat the 800K or where my life support comes from.

Just sayin'

I've been asked how I support myself when the 800K is untouched in Chiang Mai and I've detailed that so many times on this forum that the regulars are probably sick of reading about it.

[Jingthing]

Jingthing: I respect your opinion...but what is your basis for stating the following in your posts above:

(1) "Typically, people withdraw some for living expenses;"

(2) "If you just let the sum sit there, they may ask you about where your living in Thailand money source is coming"; and

(3) "If the officers see an application that makes them wonder how you are actually living in Thailand, they will indeed tend to ask some questions" ?

I have tracked this section of the Forum for years on this topic and have seen no evidence that Immo anywhere routinely asks about how retirees use the 800K, or probes what the basis for their living expenses is.

They may do this in Pattaya -- but then you need to qualify your response.

The acid test is what Immo/Bangkok does as routine -- and after my 4 retirement extensions there, they have shown no interest in how I treat the 800K or where my life support comes from.

Just sayin'

Let's start with you telling us what you do with your 800K. That in itself may explain why YOU have never been questioned.

In any case, I seems you are massively exaggerating what I said anyway. I never said anything about routine policies or pretended to represent every immigration officer in Thailand at all times. It's just common sense that the officers have the option to ask questions if they see something that makes them suspect something fishy is going on. If they see annual spending that looks more typical than the 800K sitting static year after year, for but one example.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Jingthing

[TaoNow]

JT: If you want to know how I manage my 800K baht you can PM me. And please refrain from shouting (all caps) -- this is one of the more civil sections of TV, so let's try to keep it that way. You seem to have a short fuse when members question your posts.

NancyL: It would be important to know if IMMO/CM asks this of many or most of the retirees -- but I can't recall any trip reports other than yours to that effect. Please advise if you think your experience is typical of other ex-pats.

Yes, Lopburi3, I didn't mean to imply a requirement. I raised the example in the (hypothetical) case of those without social security, or a pension and who do not want to park 800K baht in a bank in Thailand. I haven't seen a trip report from someone using a liquid, off-shore source of non-pension funds when making the affidavit at the US Embassy -- kindly correct me if wrong.

[Jingthing]

JT: If you want to know how I manage my 800K baht you can PM me. And please refrain from shouting (all caps) -- this is one of the more civil sections of TV, so let's try to keep it that way. You seem to have a short fuse when members question your posts.

This is a forum to SHARE information. Not interested in your private PM and not interested in your FORMATTING guidelines either (you are confusing totally all caps posts from using all caps for selective emphasis which is an entirely different thing). Most people posting here are willing and happy to share their experiences with immigration; that way we all can learn something and sometimes see patterns over time that indicate changes.

You seemed to be implying that you haven't been questioned personally as if that proves anything. Obviously, one report doesn't prove much, but if there is nothing in your application that could credibly inspire questioning, there's your explanation ... for you. If you have been showing up with an untouched 800K for five years and had never been questioned even once about your source of living expenses, I would be very mildly surprised, but wouldn't draw any Thailand-wide conclusions from it. The fact is that we KNOW from reports over the years that immigration has every right to ask further questions if they are motivated to do so for any reason, that they don't need to even tell you the reason, and if you are showing up with an application that common sense tells you could be seen as suspicious, it is wise to be prepared with a good answer, and even better documentation to back up that answer. Not required, just prudent.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Jingthing

[NancyL]

The time I was asked about how I supported my self when my 800,000 baht had been untouched for three years, I was dressed in a modest pink cotton blouse (on a Tuesday) and a plain dark grey, knee-length skirt. Maybe they were concerned that I was working as a teacher because that's how I was dressed. Or maybe the officer was just making conversation to pass the time while he stamped and made check marks.

The following year I wasn't asked, but Immigration had messed up on my appointment. Somehow it didn't show up on their print-out of the day's appointments and they didn't call me for the 10 am appointment. I asked at 10:05 and was told they'd call my name, please have a seat and wait. At 10:30 am, I asked again and there was an audible gasp from the clerk, much running around to discover why there was an error, apologies, and speedy processing of my extension. Probably no time or desire to make small talk.

[Jingthing]

It's a dark business trying to guess everything that goes on in immigration officer's heads. I was once asked if I had presented a fake passport. Wasn't expecting that one! Was it my garlic breath?

Edited March 27, 2012 by Jingthing

[nong38]

Just to make my position clear, I will need to put 800K in an account which has instant access, its up to me if I wish to bring in more cash from overseas very year but one lump of 800K is what is required. MY pension look as if it will be about 70,000 bts a month, so no one needs to assume I will be delving into the 800K, I can leave it alone.

The Bank Manager was suggesting to me a Foreign Currency Deposit Account, it pays 3.4% interest, appears to have instant access, there appears to be fees to deposit and withdraw, but once the money is in, fee paid and left alone it looks like it might be a good bet, this is at Ayudhya, any comments? I think I will show it the lady in immigration and see what she says.

Thanks for all the information so far.

[Lite Beer]

I will show it the lady in immigration and see what she says.

Exactly the right thing to do.

Ask them what they want and then provide it.

Simple as that.

[NancyL]

Just to make my position clear, I will need to put 800K in an account which has instant access, its up to me if I wish to bring in more cash from overseas very year but one lump of 800K is what is required. MY pension look as if it will be about 70,000 bts a month, so no one needs to assume I will be delving into the 800K, I can leave it alone.

The Bank Manager was suggesting to me a Foreign Currency Deposit Account, it pays 3.4% interest, appears to have instant access, there appears to be fees to deposit and withdraw, but once the money is in, fee paid and left alone it looks like it might be a good bet, this is at Ayudhya, any comments? I think I will show it the lady in immigration and see what she says.

Thanks for all the information so far.

Sounds like a good deal. Go for it!

[nong38]

Looking at the Ayudyha "Foreign Currency Deposit" account today it looks like the account would hold funds in one of up to 11 different currencies, non of which is Thai Baht, idea appears to be hold in your home country cuurency and trf to Thai Baht when the rate is good. So if the rate for GBP was 50 bts to the £ I would need to have £16000 +. Does anyone know if Immigration would accept 800K bts in an equivalent currency, in my case £16000+?

Or is this another question for immigration and I let you all know?

Edited March 28, 2012 by nong38

[lopburi3]

I suspect you need to check that interest rate again if talking anything but Oz currency. Do not see any over 3 percent listed for any other foreign deposits. UK pound max at point 9%

http://www.krungsri.com/en/banking-rates02.aspx?flag=0

[nong38]

Yes I take your point, lost in translation spring to mind, when Iasked the interest rate and suggested 5% she said no 3.4%. Will need to look into it again, but does anyone know if the 800K has to be in Thai Bhats or can be in an equivalent currency to the same value?