Racism Against Farangs

[HardenedSoul]

Sorry to break it to you, but all that pent up anger in the hearts of those who banter racial slurs -- any racial slur -- doesn't have anything to do with race. Racism gives you an excuse to direct all that anger and hate at someone else -- in your case white people. You ought to take a deeper introspective look into yourself to find out what is really going on in there.

The worst racists are from the minority groups ??!! Mate, put down the crack pipe and think about what you've written.

It's got jack shit to do with being a victim. I simply related my personal experience of racism in this country and how it has come from all those white folks who laughably seem to believe that Thais are racist.

Having been born and raised a member of an ethnic minority in London and having experienced the sharp end of racism for real, I've got a fairly good idea of what racism is and how it can affect one's existence . . . . if one allows it to.

A mild case of over-charging of an individual or group of people perceived as being able to pay a little more is hardly racism so the whingers ought to put up or ship out

[baboon]

Perhaps Ko Tao or the other small islands would be more to the OP`s liking and suit her philosophy on life rather more than Bangkok?

[theblether]

Sorry to break it to you, but all that pent up anger in the hearts of those who banter racial slurs -- any racial slur -- doesn't have anything to do with race. Racism gives you an excuse to direct all that anger and hate at someone else -- in your case white people. You ought to take a deeper introspective look into yourself to find out what is really going on in there.

The worst racists are from the minority groups ??!! Mate, put down the crack pipe and think about what you've written.

It's got jack shit to do with being a victim. I simply related my personal experience of racism in this country and how it has come from all those white folks who laughably seem to believe that Thais are racist.

Having been born and raised a member of an ethnic minority in London and having experienced the sharp end of racism for real, I've got a fairly good idea of what racism is and how it can affect one's existence . . . . if one allows it to.

A mild case of over-charging of an individual or group of people perceived as being able to pay a little more is hardly racism so the whingers ought to put up or ship out

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

[HardenedSoul]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

[theblether]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

For the purpose of clarify, are you saying that you get no racism directed at you from Thais.

[HardenedSoul]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

For the purpose of clarify, are you saying that you get no racism directed at you from Thais.

Yes. Nothing that I'd regard as racism.

[theblether]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

For the purpose of clarify, are you saying that you get no racism directed at you from Thais.

Yes. Nothing that I'd regard as racism.

There are not many Afro-Caribbean English ex-pats in Thailand, your experience of living here would be of great interest to many people. Can you pinpoint examples of where you have been treated differently by Thais?

[brit1984]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

For the purpose of clarify, are you saying that you get no racism directed at you from Thais.

Yes. Nothing that I'd regard as racism.

Please could you confirm how much you spent on veterinary fees for stray dogs in the last month?

[connda]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

For the purpose of clarify, are you saying that you get no racism directed at you from Thais.

Actually, there is a term Thais use to refer to dark-skinned foreigners: Kerk or kɛ̀ɛk. Generally this means people from Indian or Middle-Eastern decent, but I've heard it used to refer to people of African decent also. Is there discrimination against Kerk? I have a good friend from India. Her son lived in Bangkok and enjoyed the nightclub scene. She said there have been instances where her son was not allow into a nightclub because he was Kerk. I've also discussed this with a black friend of mine from the US. He sort of felt that the Thais didn't quite know what to think of him.

Edited March 29, 2012 by connda

[HardenedSoul]

There are not many Afro-Caribbean English ex-pats in Thailand, your experience of living here would be of great interest to many people. Can you pinpoint examples of where you have been treated differently by Thais?

Well they're usually a lot more curious. Can't be sure why but at a push, I'd imagine it's because the black people they generally run into are from Africa and maybe because Im polite. I mean they know for sure I'm not a Nigerian or Ghanaian so they usually default to American but when told I'm British, interest and curiosity intensifies and questions begin.

I'm honestly treated very well by the Thais I meet. I'm sometimes called "Chocolate Man" by some of the women but there's no way that's racism; frankly, hearing it said with their accents always has me in stitches. I get overcharged same as white people I guess but if I'm feeling principled that day, I just walk off. 9 times out of 10, they give me the right price in the end.

Sometimes Thais are over-polite and I put this down to the possibility that maybe they think black guys are quicker to anger but overall, it's indifference all the way - just the way I like it.

The police pull me over a lot when they're doing their periodical "crackdowns" but they pull loads of white guys too.

Supermarkets, shopping malls, hospitals, taxis, nightclubs, after-hours shebeens, MRT, bars, banks, immigration - relatively plain sailing.

[theblether]

Would you like to declare your ethnic group?

Sure.

Afro-Caribbean

For the purpose of clarify, are you saying that you get no racism directed at you from Thais.

Actually, there is a term Thais use to refer to dark-skinned foreigners: Kerk or kɛ̀ɛk. Generally this means people from Indian or Middle-Eastern decent, but I've heard it used to refer to people of African decent also. Is there discrimination against Kerk? I have a good friend from India. Her son lived in Bangkok and enjoyed the nightclub scene. She said there have been instances where her son was not allow into a nightclub because he was Kerk. I've also discussed this with a black friend of mine from the US. He sort of felt that the Thais didn't quite know what to think of him.

I have Black American friends living in Chiang Mai and I have spoken to English Afro Caribbean people on holiday in Thailand, I won't pretend that I discussed race issues with them, however I do remember reading an article that there is an Africoid ( I think that is the correct term ) community in Southern Thailand that are highly discriminated against due to their skin colour. One of our esteemed TV members who has been active on this thread has more knowledge on this subject than I have. I'll pm him and ask him.

I'd rather read education than a festival of flaming here.

[theblether]

There are not many Afro-Caribbean English ex-pats in Thailand, your experience of living here would be of great interest to many people. Can you pinpoint examples of where you have been treated differently by Thais?

Well they're usually a lot more curious. Can't be sure why but at a push, I'd imagine it's because the black people they generally run into are from Africa and maybe because Im polite. I mean they know for sure I'm not a Nigerian or Ghanaian so they usually default to American but when told I'm British, interest and curiosity intensifies and questions begin.

I'm honestly treated very well by the Thais I meet. I'm sometimes called "Chocolate Man" by some of the women but there's no way that's racism; frankly, hearing it said with their accents always has me in stitches. I get overcharged same as white people I guess but if I'm feeling principled that day, I just walk off. 9 times out of 10, they give me the right price in the end.

Sometimes Thais are over-polite and I put this down to the possibility that maybe they think black guys are quicker to anger but overall, it's indifference all the way - just the way I like it.

The police pull me over a lot when they're doing their periodical "crackdowns" but they pull loads of white guys too.

Supermarkets, shopping malls, hospitals, taxis, nightclubs, after-hours shebeens, MRT, bars, banks, immigration - relatively plain sailing.

Thanks for that, I think I remember you broaching a similar subject on another thread a couple of months ago. Do I remember correctly, you were angered when they didn't believe you were English?

[HardenedSoul]

There are not many Afro-Caribbean English ex-pats in Thailand, your experience of living here would be of great interest to many people. Can you pinpoint examples of where you have been treated differently by Thais?

Well they're usually a lot more curious. Can't be sure why but at a push, I'd imagine it's because the black people they generally run into are from Africa and maybe because Im polite. I mean they know for sure I'm not a Nigerian or Ghanaian so they usually default to American but when told I'm British, interest and curiosity intensifies and questions begin.

I'm honestly treated very well by the Thais I meet. I'm sometimes called "Chocolate Man" by some of the women but there's no way that's racism; frankly, hearing it said with their accents always has me in stitches. I get overcharged same as white people I guess but if I'm feeling principled that day, I just walk off. 9 times out of 10, they give me the right price in the end.

Sometimes Thais are over-polite and I put this down to the possibility that maybe they think black guys are quicker to anger but overall, it's indifference all the way - just the way I like it.

The police pull me over a lot when they're doing their periodical "crackdowns" but they pull loads of white guys too.

Supermarkets, shopping malls, hospitals, taxis, nightclubs, after-hours shebeens, MRT, bars, banks, immigration - relatively plain sailing.

Thanks for that, I think I remember you broaching a similar subject on another thread a couple of months ago. Do I remember correctly, you were angered when they didn't believe you were English?

Well if you can produce the post, I'll provide further clarification

[theblether]

There are not many Afro-Caribbean English ex-pats in Thailand, your experience of living here would be of great interest to many people. Can you pinpoint examples of where you have been treated differently by Thais?

Well they're usually a lot more curious. Can't be sure why but at a push, I'd imagine it's because the black people they generally run into are from Africa and maybe because Im polite. I mean they know for sure I'm not a Nigerian or Ghanaian so they usually default to American but when told I'm British, interest and curiosity intensifies and questions begin.

I'm honestly treated very well by the Thais I meet. I'm sometimes called "Chocolate Man" by some of the women but there's no way that's racism; frankly, hearing it said with their accents always has me in stitches. I get overcharged same as white people I guess but if I'm feeling principled that day, I just walk off. 9 times out of 10, they give me the right price in the end.

Sometimes Thais are over-polite and I put this down to the possibility that maybe they think black guys are quicker to anger but overall, it's indifference all the way - just the way I like it.

The police pull me over a lot when they're doing their periodical "crackdowns" but they pull loads of white guys too.

Supermarkets, shopping malls, hospitals, taxis, nightclubs, after-hours shebeens, MRT, bars, banks, immigration - relatively plain sailing.

Thanks for that, I think I remember you broaching a similar subject on another thread a couple of months ago. Do I remember correctly, you were angered when they didn't believe you were English?

Well if you can produce the post, I'll provide further clarification

I'm not having a go at you, it does stick in my mind that was what you said at the time. It isn't a highly relevant point as to my recollection what irritated you was the fact that you had to justify the fact you were English, it wasn't racism per se.

So what you are saying is that if anything you tend to be treated with kid gloves, and you get the occasional Thai chancing their luck with over charging.

Are you subjected to a lot of racism from ex-pats?

[HardenedSoul]

Not a lot, no but on the few occasions there has been tension, it's always involved white men who've had a skinful.

[theblether]

Not a lot, no but on the few occasions there has been tension, it's always involved white men who've had a skinful.

No shock there, it's well known on this forum that I am Scottish, there is a certain contingent of Englishmen who get a skin-full and have a go at me too based upon my background, but that's not racism ( some people would argue that it is ) that's cultural?? or ignorance?? I think I would call it ignorance.

Thais are known for saying what they see, If I called you chocolate man you would quite rightly go wild, but if a Thai girl calls you chocolate man you think it's hysterical.

Let's not play games, you would know that I would be having a go at you for saying that to you, and it's unacceptable.............are you not creating an ongoing problem by reacting the way you do to being called it by Thais?

[HardenedSoul]

Not a lot, no but on the few occasions there has been tension, it's always involved white men who've had a skinful.

No shock there, it's well known on this forum that I am Scottish, there is a certain contingent of Englishmen who get a skin-full and have a go at me too based upon my background, but that's not racism ( some people would argue that it is ) that's cultural?? or ignorance?? I think I would call it ignorance.

Thais are known for saying what they see, If I called you chocolate man you would quite rightly go wild, but if a Thai girl calls you chocolate man you think it's hysterical.

Let's not play games, you would know that I would be having a go at you for saying that to you, and it's unacceptable.............are you not creating an ongoing problem by reacting the way you do to being called it by Thais?

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

[theblether]

Not a lot, no but on the few occasions there has been tension, it's always involved white men who've had a skinful.

No shock there, it's well known on this forum that I am Scottish, there is a certain contingent of Englishmen who get a skin-full and have a go at me too based upon my background, but that's not racism ( some people would argue that it is ) that's cultural?? or ignorance?? I think I would call it ignorance.

Thais are known for saying what they see, If I called you chocolate man you would quite rightly go wild, but if a Thai girl calls you chocolate man you think it's hysterical.

Let's not play games, you would know that I would be having a go at you for saying that to you, and it's unacceptable.............are you not creating an ongoing problem by reacting the way you do to being called it by Thais?

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

I admire you for your common sense, I miss the days in the UK when common sense was allowed.

If you had any advice to give to any people of your background coming to Thailand on holiday or to live what would it be?

[David48]

aneliane

... before the boys above turn your post into a Q and A on perceived Black Racism ... would you like to return comment on what you see at the racism directed at you?

[aneliane]

aneliane

... before the boys above turn your post into a Q and A on perceived Black Racism ... would you like to return comment on what you see at the racism directed at you?

No I think racism towards farangs or white ppl is the same experience than blacks, although it might be of different degree, it's totally the same issue

[aneliane]

This is the system, get use to it or.....

Exactly. Back in the US a Thai once asked me how to get somewhere on the public transport. My response was "if you were rich enough to get here from thailand, then you are rich enough to take a taxi." I then pointed to the cab stand, smiled and walked away.

Wouldn't it of been hilarious if the guy pulled a gun and blew your head off for being such a tosser.

Then you are in agreement with the op that Thais who respond in kind are complete tossers as well, right?

I never said such things about Thais

Thais people like everywhere could be nice or not so nice, but Thai government is making sure that they direct any frustration they might have against foreigners, (hence not towards their corrupted leaders) by teaching them everytime they have the chance that farangs are inferiors races, and are the source of all their problems

I think the ones who are not racist here -and they are alot very tolerant people and nice people - are bloody saints because they don't believe the crap they are taught and risk constantly to be regarded as some type of traitor to the nation by the others

Edited March 30, 2012 by aneliane

[bendix]

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

Top post HS.

I completely concur that you have to take intent as a key factor when determining whether something is racist or not, and that's what the PC brigade don't understand. When a bargirl calls a black guy 'chocolate man' it's part ignorance, part jovial, part sheer lack of familiarity. There is no hate or malice intended.

To hear other posters say that being charged 20 baht extra for a haircut is racist is palpable nonsense - it's opportunism, that's all. There is no hate or malice involved in it. At best it can be called economic profiling in that instance.

[mackes]

Thai government is making sure that they direct any frustration they might have against foreigners, (hence not towards their corrupted leaders)

by teaching them everytime they have the chance that farangs are inferiors races, and are the source of all their problems

Can you enlighten us ignorant people with some examples of this?

[aneliane]

I think your missing the point here.

The OP is 42, single, good hearted and compassionate.

She's got that Parisien chic style thing going on and she wears expensive perfume.

She sounds hot. I'm going to ask her out for dinner.

The rest of you carry on with the debate.......

Not if I get there first!

Young man ... I live closer then you.

Despite ALL that has been written and will be written in the future ... she does seem an interesting person to share a wine with and chew the fat about different things ... even if we disagree 100%.

I smell a scent of sarcasm (Mr Blether) ... not a hint of expensive perfume.

Would be spending the 20,00 Baht on getting the dogs de-sexed and not on their welfare ... they're Soi Dogs and can take care of themselves.

Look beyond any notion of sarcasm kind sir.

The OP is feeling besieged.

The OP is loney.

The OP is loney, the OP is lonely, the OP is hot, the OP is this, The OP is that,.. good or bad, comment about my personal situation are beside the point, can we stop making it about me ?

this is a debate about how you deal with racism.

May be I am completly barmy and I am imaginating stuffs, but I still talked about something that some of you (not all) have experienced

Some people have said here that their Thai wife were told racism at school (against indians- something with snakes)

The point is that, this country is educating his people to be racist, in army, school and possibly other institutions

The point is some Thais who don't know any better believe in that type of crap

The point is there are indeed some non racists here but with peer pressure and all, they have to be very thick skinned not to get drawn into that type of attitude

This is the issue

Kapunka

[StreetCowboy]

I went to my local char kway teow stall - highly respected for more than 20 years, apparently, and I was stood there waiting to get served while the fella busied himself with other customers, many of whom arrived after I did. I put it down to ignorance rather than racism - my ignorance, since I did not know the correct way to call over his attention. Mgoy? Uncle? Laoban? Hey- Jimmy? If my language skills had been better I might have said "Excuse me, two pints of lager and a packet of crisps, PLEASE. I've been here half an hour and I'm getting very thirsty. WHY WON'T YOU SERVE ME?" or something equivalent and more relevant. But I didn't, because they're not.

SC

EDIT: Then he could have had the opportunity to exhibit his racism, and tell me "piss off, you miserable Scotch git", but I don't think his language skills were up to it, either.

Edited March 30, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[regine]

Some people have said here that their Thai wife were told racism at school (against indians- something with snakes)

The point is that, this country is educating his people to be racist, in army, school and possibly other institutions

The point is some Thais who don't know any better believe in that type of crap

The point is there are indeed some non racists here but with peer pressure and all, they have to be very thick skinned not to get drawn into that type of attitude

Nationalism and racism are NOT the same thing.

[brit1984]

I think your missing the point here.

The OP is 42, single, good hearted and compassionate.

She's got that Parisien chic style thing going on and she wears expensive perfume.

She sounds hot. I'm going to ask her out for dinner.

The rest of you carry on with the debate.......

Not if I get there first!

Young man ... I live closer then you.

Despite ALL that has been written and will be written in the future ... she does seem an interesting person to share a wine with and chew the fat about different things ... even if we disagree 100%.

I smell a scent of sarcasm (Mr Blether) ... not a hint of expensive perfume.

Would be spending the 20,00 Baht on getting the dogs de-sexed and not on their welfare ... they're Soi Dogs and can take care of themselves.

Look beyond any notion of sarcasm kind sir.

The OP is feeling besieged.

The OP is loney.

The OP is loney, the OP is lonely, the OP is hot, the OP is this, The OP is that,.. good or bad, comment about my personal situation are beside the point, can we stop making it about me ?

this is a debate about how you deal with racism.

May be I am completly barmy and I am imaginating stuffs, but I still talked about something that some of you (not all) have experienced

Some people have said here that their Thai wife were told racism at school (against indians- something with snakes)

The point is that, this country is educating his people to be racist, in army, school and possibly other institutions

The point is some Thais who don't know any better believe in that type of crap

The point is there are indeed some non racists here but with peer pressure and all, they have to be very thick skinned not to get drawn into that type of attitude

This is the issue

Kapunka

I think many posters have already told you how to deal with the "racism" you feel you are experiencing (e.g. try to be less eccentric and less paranoid).

Instead of taking time to digest this advice and use it to help you to live a happy life, you have continued your attack on Thailand (or an imaginary version of Thailand that exists only in your mind) and your posts have been becoming ever more ridiculous.

[kerryk]

Some people have said here that their Thai wife were told racism at school (against indians- something with snakes)

The point is that, this country is educating his people to be racist, in army, school and possibly other institutions

The point is some Thais who don't know any better believe in that type of crap

The point is there are indeed some non racists here but with peer pressure and all, they have to be very thick skinned not to get drawn into that type of attitude

Nationalism and racism are NOT the same thing.

You have to give Aneliane a break she does not speak Thai and sees everything through a glass darkly and with the brain of a Western person who does not know what the locals are saying accurately.

[StreetCowboy]

Some people have said here that their Thai wife were told racism at school (against indians- something with snakes)

The point is that, this country is educating his people to be racist, in army, school and possibly other institutions

The point is some Thais who don't know any better believe in that type of crap

The point is there are indeed some non racists here but with peer pressure and all, they have to be very thick skinned not to get drawn into that type of attitude

Nationalism and racism are NOT the same thing.

Correct, but often racism is based on nationality rather than race. Nationalism is when one acts out of irrational commitment to one's nation - for example going out of one's way to buy a British car, spending extra to get irn bru for watching the rugby matches, rather than cheaper soft drinks. Racism is when one discriminates against a person because of the colour of his skin or his accent or even where he chooses to pray, on the grounds that this sets him in a different tribe from oneself.

Given the view put forward by JT, and possibly supported by research, there is actually no such thing, biologically speaking, as different races...

Anyway, I'm sure I will (I already do) regret having got mired in this debate, and I'll try and pull myself out and wash as much as the muck of as I can...

SC

[mackes]

this country is educating his people to be racist, in army, school and possibly other institutions

This is hearsay not examples, my wife denied that such education exist so it is not a common practice.