Thai Democrats Blocking Reconciliation: Natthawut

[geriatrickid]

Khun Nattawhut is expressing frustration over the Democrats attempt to block the discussion of the report on reconciliation.

I appreciate that some people are opposed to anything this government is trying to do. However, the strategy being employed by the Democrats is only going to undermine the Democrats' precarious political position in the country and further marginalize the party. The vote to discuss the report was a resounding majority and included multiple parties, not just the PTP. The democrats are backing themselves into a corner from which they will be unable to effectively argue their position.

I think some TVFers are allowing their obsession with Thaksin and a need to inflict pain and suffering on him to interfere with a reasonable discussion of reconciliation.

[CalgaryII]

"reconciliation" is a little like putting a band-aid over a cancerous tumor. It ain't possible to reconcile with those who hold you in contempt and feel the least bit of remorse about R'song. In the face of their arrogance, I would simply walk away, with the words, "See ya at election time buddy".

The question of Sonthi and characterization of him siding with one side is also misleading. A rational and fact-based reconciliation effort would naturally expose the coup reality and their murderous defence of it. A reality that they have tried to obfuscate in smoke ever since. Just because this reality is discussed as it unfolded, doesn't all of a sudden call into question the impartiality of the thing. It is simply stating fact.

For above reasons, the tilting-at-windmills thing called 'reconciliation should just die a natural death. It is not going anywhere...."See ya at election time buddy" is the only reality that counts.

Edited March 29, 2012 by CalgaryII

[bigbamboo]

Agree or disagree, the fact remains that this guy speaks for probably the single largest political constituency in the country. Those opposed can denigrate, besmirch and disparage his comments all they want, but they speak from an electoral minority position. Conversely, respecting these perspectives and this political block, would probably be the best starting point to any "reconciliation" process. Easier said then done, when a sense of political inequality by some, is pervasive to their very core. It is just another reason why "Reconciliation" is 'stillborn' as a valid political exercise.

It doesn't matter if someone gets 99% of the votes, if they are a criminal they must still answer for their actions.

An end to all the divisive red shirt and yellow shirt nonsense might be a good way to start.

[daboyz1]

It warms one's heart to see people standing up to defend corrupt, megalomaniac creeps against the consequences of their actions.

and to see others standing up for unelected, murdering coupists.

I thought people were only allowed one account here?

[AleG]

It warms one's heart to see people standing up to defend corrupt, megalomaniac creeps against the consequences of their actions.

and to see others standing up for unelected, murdering coupists.

Please, point out who in this thread is defending unelected, murdering "coupists".

[phiphidon]

Utter nonsense. Nothing to do with that because there was no central philosophy and still isn't in the red movement. The red movement is akin to the 700,000 people that "supported" Mussolini which led to those terrible events all those years ago. We may well see history repeating itself here. It is a support base built by what Hitler proposed in Mein Kempf: That was do not build a movement on 'argumentation' but rather on appealing to the emotions. The Red Movement is solely a cross between a fan club and a movement to support one person, created by that person himself (and his cronies). Its about Greed and Power. If the Coup had been there as a long term Government (aka Burma), then perhaps there would have been a real human rights movement that understood and fought for democracy. But the Coup handed over to a Democratic process fairly quickly. Sadly, your exiled Hero has no truck with democracy and democratic principles apart from using the word as an emotional lever. Then there are many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post-coup Governments black. Sadly all that nonsense is transparent to all but the most hardened ideologues.

You forgot to mention Pol Pot and Mao Zedong.

You see, all the great rants on here start off slowly with the hitler comparison, maybe a mussolini sideline, but gradually build up to mention the local despots, like the aforesaid pol pot and mao zedong. Sometimes we also get a ferdinand marcos mention and if you're talking about Yingluck you can bring his missus in to the rant as well for a double whammy.

I think we've had mention of a hugo chavez which is a bit of a stretch, geographically speaking, but if you've gone that far why not try a thesis on the comparisons between the red shirts and shining path guerillas, I know it's a different country but what the hell it's just a rant, nothing factual..

But anyway, what were you saying, you kind of lost me after "utter nonsense" or was that the content title?

[hellodolly]

Doesn't there need to be efforts for reconciliation for the Democrats to be able to block it?

The article opened with

"BANGKOK: -- The Democrats are allowing their obsession against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to cloud their judgement on national reconciliation, Deputy Agriculture Minister Natthawut Saikua said on Thursday"

It could have read The PT obsession with former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra clouds their judgement on national reconciliation.

There Idea is to have Thaksin come back and every one pay homage to him for his ability to skim tax dolor's and fool red shirts.

Sorry a forgot a few of the less justice minded on TV are fooled also.

Edited March 29, 2012 by hellodolly

[CalgaryII]

Utter nonsense. Nothing to do with that because there was no central philosophy and still isn't in the red movement. The red movement is akin to the 700,000 people that "supported" Mussolini which led to those terrible events all those years ago. We may well see history repeating itself here. It is a support base built by what Hitler proposed in Mein Kempf: That was do not build a movement on 'argumentation' but rather on appealing to the emotions. The Red Movement is solely a cross between a fan club and a movement to support one person, created by that person himself (and his cronies). Its about Greed and Power. If the Coup had been there as a long term Government (aka Burma), then perhaps there would have been a real human rights movement that understood and fought for democracy. But the Coup handed over to a Democratic process fairly quickly. Sadly, your exiled Hero has no truck with democracy and democratic principles apart from using the word as an emotional lever. Then there are many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post-coup Governments black. Sadly all that nonsense is transparent to all but the most hardened ideologues.

You forgot to mention Pol Pot and Mao Zedong.

You see, all the great rants on here start off slowly with the hitler comparison, maybe a mussolini sideline, but gradually build up to mention the local despots, like the aforesaid pol pot and mao zedong. Sometimes we also get a ferdinand marcos mention and if you're talking about Yingluck you can bring his missus in to the rant as well for a double whammy.

I think we've had mention of a hugo chavez which is a bit of a stretch, geographically speaking, but if you've gone that far why not try a thesis on the comparisons between the red shirts and shining path guerillas, I know it's a different country but what the hell it's just a rant, nothing factual..

But anyway, what were you saying, you kind of lost me after "utter nonsense" or was that the content title?

LOL!

[Siripon]

"I think it is time to put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues," he said.

I'll give Thaksin and his cronies, sycophants, and partners in crime, this much, they have balls the size of cantaloupes to get up there day after day and spread such blatant BS. Honestly amazing they can say this stuff without bursting in to laughter, although with so many billions of baht on the line and lucrative future thefts to look forward to I guess they find a way.

But the slogan of Pheua Thai in the election was: 'Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does'.

Chalerm himself has repeatedly said the selling point in the election was bringing Thaksin home, free of political convictions and outstanding cases.

He is everything to Pheua Thai, the obsession with Thaksin lies with them, Can they put him aside?

No, because they're nothing without him.

[geriatrickid]

It warms one's heart to see people standing up to defend corrupt, megalomaniac creeps against the consequences of their actions.

and to see others standing up for unelected, murdering coupists.

I thought people were only allowed one account here?

I really don't think you want to start a thread on that subject as you might be embarrassed if a couple of the most vociferous government bashers in TVF are "exposed".

[Siripon]

It warms one's heart to see people standing up to defend corrupt, megalomaniac creeps against the consequences of their actions.

and to see others standing up for unelected, murdering coupists.

Please, point out who in this thread is defending unelected, murdering "coupists".

As mentioned, Pheua Thai are rigorously defending the 'coupist' Sonthi lol- by the way it was a bloodless coup

The state murdered far more people in Thaksin's tenure..

[birdpooguava]

Utter nonsense. Nothing to do with that because there was no central philosophy and still isn't in the red movement. The red movement is akin to the 700,000 people that "supported" Mussolini which led to those terrible events all those years ago. We may well see history repeating itself here. It is a support base built by what Hitler proposed in Mein Kempf: That was do not build a movement on 'argumentation' but rather on appealing to the emotions. The Red Movement is solely a cross between a fan club and a movement to support one person, created by that person himself (and his cronies). Its about Greed and Power. If the Coup had been there as a long term Government (aka Burma), then perhaps there would have been a real human rights movement that understood and fought for democracy. But the Coup handed over to a Democratic process fairly quickly. Sadly, your exiled Hero has no truck with democracy and democratic principles apart from using the word as an emotional lever. Then there are many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post-coup Governments black. Sadly all that nonsense is transparent to all but the most hardened ideologues.

You forgot to mention Pol Pot and Mao Zedong.

You see, all the great rants on here start off slowly with the hitler comparison, maybe a mussolini sideline, but gradually build up to mention the local despots, like the aforesaid pol pot and mao zedong. Sometimes we also get a ferdinand marcos mention and if you're talking about Yingluck you can bring his missus in to the rant as well for a double whammy.

I think we've had mention of a hugo chavez which is a bit of a stretch, geographically speaking, but if you've gone that far why not try a thesis on the comparisons between the red shirts and shining path guerillas, I know it's a different country but what the hell it's just a rant, nothing factual..

But anyway, what were you saying, you kind of lost me after "utter nonsense" or was that the content title?

LOL!

Brilliant. I also love the 'an attempt to rewrite history.' Like the brainwashing attempt by the Dems for the past few years is anywhere near the truth!

[bigbamboo]

It warms one's heart to see people standing up to defend corrupt, megalomaniac creeps against the consequences of their actions.

and to see others standing up for unelected, murdering coupists.

I thought people were only allowed one account here?

I really don't think you want to start a thread on that subject as you might be embarrassed if a couple of the most vociferous government bashers in TVF are "exposed".

Or a couple of their most vociferous supporters!

Edited March 29, 2012 by bigbamboo

[geriatrickid]

But the slogan of Pheua Thai in the election was: 'Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does'.

Chalerm himself has repeatedly said the selling point in the election was bringing Thaksin home, free of political convictions and outstanding cases.

He is everything to Pheua Thai, the obsession with Thaksin lies with them, Can they put him aside?

No, because they're nothing without him.

Can you blame a political party for using what they consider to be an asset? IMHO all this business with Thaksin is part of the political strategy. it is used to leverage a political position and to bring weight to bear on multiple issues, many of which have nothing to do with a dignified return of the former PM. I also think that there is a sincere desire for reconciliation, even with some Democrats who saw the writing on the wall a year ago. Much of the Democrat strategy is pinned on finding a common enemy to unite a cauus and its supporters that are becoming increasingly disillusioned and frustrated with the ever growing marginalization of the Democrats. Last week the PM was in Phuket, one of the most powerful Democrat strongholds. She drew some support from some of the Phuket stalwarts many of whom made a pilgrimage to meet with her. Abhisit and his advisers have hung their hat on a strategy that will not work and the Democrats are in serious danger of being further marginalized. Thailand needs a strong and competent opposition party and it does not have one.

[weka]

Utter nonsense. Nothing to do with that because there was no central philosophy and still isn't in the red movement. The red movement is akin to the 700,000 people that "supported" Mussolini which led to those terrible events all those years ago. We may well see history repeating itself here. It is a support base built by what Hitler proposed in Mein Kempf: That was do not build a movement on 'argumentation' but rather on appealing to the emotions. The Red Movement is solely a cross between a fan club and a movement to support one person, created by that person himself (and his cronies). Its about Greed and Power. If the Coup had been there as a long term Government (aka Burma), then perhaps there would have been a real human rights movement that understood and fought for democracy. But the Coup handed over to a Democratic process fairly quickly. Sadly, your exiled Hero has no truck with democracy and democratic principles apart from using the word as an emotional lever. Then there are many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post-coup Governments black. Sadly all that nonsense is transparent to all but the most hardened ideologues.

You forgot to mention Pol Pot and Mao Zedong.

You see, all the great rants on here start off slowly with the hitler comparison, maybe a mussolini sideline, but gradually build up to mention the local despots, like the aforesaid pol pot and mao zedong. Sometimes we also get a ferdinand marcos mention and if you're talking about Yingluck you can bring his missus in to the rant as well for a double whammy.

I think we've had mention of a hugo chavez which is a bit of a stretch, geographically speaking, but if you've gone that far why not try a thesis on the comparisons between the red shirts and shining path guerillas, I know it's a different country but what the hell it's just a rant, nothing factual..

But anyway, what were you saying, you kind of lost me after "utter nonsense" or was that the content title?

What a pointless insipid post.

now go on and refer to mine the same - troll

[473geo]

Yep while Yingluck cruises around charming and gathering support.........

The Dems concentrate on a man who is not in the country......

Comendable strategy by PTP.....Dems inability to change focus and direction exposed again

[MAJIC]

Commenting on the upcoming House debate on reconciliation, he said the debate, scheduled for April 4, would explore ways for mending fences and not a rush to grant the Thaksin amnesty as alleged.

These PTP Politicians are such Bare fronted,Blatant liars,always denying , that they are working in the background to bring Thaksin back,

Just like regaining his Passport,all lies,deceipt, and denials.

One day,we will log on to TV and find he's already back in Thailand,having been cleared of any wrong doing,which

would be a sad result.....but then it's only to be expected from a sad Country,where everything is up for sale,it's

only the method that differs,to obtain wealth at all costs,and once wealth is obtained, respect,automatically

follows.and has a cleansing effect on the thief thereafter,regardless where the money came from.

Edited March 29, 2012 by MAJIC

[phiphidon]

Utter nonsense. Nothing to do with that because there was no central philosophy and still isn't in the red movement. The red movement is akin to the 700,000 people that "supported" Mussolini which led to those terrible events all those years ago. We may well see history repeating itself here. It is a support base built by what Hitler proposed in Mein Kempf: That was do not build a movement on 'argumentation' but rather on appealing to the emotions. The Red Movement is solely a cross between a fan club and a movement to support one person, created by that person himself (and his cronies). Its about Greed and Power. If the Coup had been there as a long term Government (aka Burma), then perhaps there would have been a real human rights movement that understood and fought for democracy. But the Coup handed over to a Democratic process fairly quickly. Sadly, your exiled Hero has no truck with democracy and democratic principles apart from using the word as an emotional lever. Then there are many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post-coup Governments black. Sadly all that nonsense is transparent to all but the most hardened ideologues.

You forgot to mention Pol Pot and Mao Zedong.

You see, all the great rants on here start off slowly with the hitler comparison, maybe a mussolini sideline, but gradually build up to mention the local despots, like the aforesaid pol pot and mao zedong. Sometimes we also get a ferdinand marcos mention and if you're talking about Yingluck you can bring his missus in to the rant as well for a double whammy.

I think we've had mention of a hugo chavez which is a bit of a stretch, geographically speaking, but if you've gone that far why not try a thesis on the comparisons between the red shirts and shining path guerillas, I know it's a different country but what the hell it's just a rant, nothing factual..

But anyway, what were you saying, you kind of lost me after "utter nonsense" or was that the content title?

What a pointless insipid post.

now go on and refer to mine the same - troll

Why would I, you just wrote a one line whinge of no consequence.

Ianf on the other hand has gone completely of the reservation, and is having us believe the red shirts are the equivalent of mussolinis blackshirts. Unfortunately for this viewpoint to be true we would have to discard the knowledge that the founding members of the blackshirt movement were nationalistic intellectuals (think PAD but with a brain) ex army officers and landowners fighting against the peasants and farmworkers unions. Can you see a problem here?

He then tells us this support was based on Mein Kampf. The blackshirts were in action directly after WW1. Mein Kampf was written in 1924. The March on Rome, 1922, probably comprised about 200, 000 blackshirts at its height.

He then professes that if the coup generals had hung in there the Thais would have got a proper human rights movement, having failed to notice that these same human rights had been introduced for the first time in the 1996 constitution. The one the junta ripped up and imposed one in its place under the threat of choosing any previous coup if the citizens didn't vote their one in. He states that the Junta handed power over quickly, well a year later but fails to mention why. They were singularly useless at governing.

ianf finally tells us that theres been many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post coup governments black - I don't know if he means good or bad here, but there has been one goverment run by the democratic party post coup so I suppose they're in the mire with the various Thaksin governments?

Have I missed anything or is this another pointless insipid post?

[tlansford]

"I think it is time to put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues," he said.

One way of doing that is to leave Thaksin out of any discussion relating to reconciliation.

Leave Thaksin in Dubai. Stop visiting him or ringing him up every five minutes. Then you can move forward and put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues.

Why is it, then, that The Nation & Co. talk about Thaksin 10x to 20x more often than Voice TV ???

IMO, the Dems bring him up at every opportunity.

Why ?

[whybother]

"I think it is time to put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues," he said.

One way of doing that is to leave Thaksin out of any discussion relating to reconciliation.

Leave Thaksin in Dubai. Stop visiting him or ringing him up every five minutes. Then you can move forward and put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues.

Why is it, then, that The Nation & Co. talk about Thaksin 10x to 20x more often than Voice TV ???

IMO, the Dems bring him up at every opportunity.

Why ?

Do you watch Voice TV all day?

[airconsult]

If this thread is an example of reconciliation discussions...... oh dear......

Initially I criticised Gen. Sonthi's statement to interviewers a few weeks ago, when he recommended people should stop living in the past - seemed self-serving as he played a prominent role - but now I sympathise.

[jayboy]

The state murdered far more people in Thaksin's tenure..

You are presumably referring to the drugs war with its needless killings, certainly the blackest mark against Thaksin given his personal direction of it.However there has never been a suggestion that he faces charges for reasons everybody is familiar with notably the almost universal support of the Thai people including the ruling class.Doesn't excuse it but is certainly relevant.

There were also murderous abuses by the military in the Deep South.These have continured under successive governments though nothing quite so appalling as Tak Bai.Thaksin didn't acquit himself well but no sane person attaches personal responsibility to him for the Military's crimes.No senior officer has ever been brought to trial for these murders.

As to murder of civilian protestors Thaksin has a good record.Despite street protests by the PAD during his time nobody as far as I know was killed.The horrific murder of redshirt civilians took place under Abhisit's administration and there is certainly room for debate on his personal responsibility.Certainly nothing he has said since reflects remorse or even regret.

As to national reconciliation it seems to me that the amart is being much smarter than the Democrats.I have often remarked on the lack of enlightened self interest in THai politics.Sometimes bitter compromises are needed to ensure survival.The evidence suggests the people who really matter in Thailand understand this.

[OzMick]

"I think it is time to put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues," he said.

One way of doing that is to leave Thaksin out of any discussion relating to reconciliation.

Leave Thaksin in Dubai. Stop visiting him or ringing him up every five minutes. Then you can move forward and put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues.

Why is it, then, that The Nation & Co. talk about Thaksin 10x to 20x more often than Voice TV ???

IMO, the Dems bring him up at every opportunity.

Why ?

If Richard Nixon's sister was elected President and deferred to him in political decisions, do you think the opposition would ignore the situation?

I know, not an accurate comparison - Nixon was pardoned.

[Ricardo]

The Dems spent their time in power spreading hatred & vitriol. They stupidly vilified the most popular man in the country to their own detriment. Not one second of their stolen power was used to reconcile differences or make amends for the injustice they played a leading role in creating. Now they are hindering any attempts by the current, elected government to make progress. Even after their narrow minded tactics led to their humiliating trouncing at the polls they continue with their pig-headed, single-mindedness. Their grave is getting mighty deep; keep digging.

So you are saying there should be no resistance from any faction to Thaksin's reemergence?

He should never have been removed. He has been unable to set foot in his own country for several years. He has been slandered and defamed on a daily basis. He has had 46 billion baht confiscated. So the answer to your question is undoubtedly YES.

Just to comment on a few of your facts :-

I wouldn't agree that Thaksin is "the most popular man in the country", there is a far-more-deserving person, isn't there ?

I'd also point out that he was here for some months in 2008, and is only now absent by his own choice, so it's mistaken to try to claim that "he has been unable to set foot in his own country for several years".

Anyway he is allegedly (by his own claims) also a citizen of of Montenegro & Uganda & Nicaragua too, so define "his own country" !

How did the Dems play a leading role "in creating injustice", before even coming to power, do you wish to claim that they were somehow behind the 2006-coup, or the military-appointed interim-government, or the PPP-led coalition in-power when the one court-case was concluded ?

The Dems, whilst in government, were never as effective IMO as the the Red-Shirts, at "spreading hatred and vitriol", and unfortunately the propaganda-machine still rolls on after the election, this cannot help achieve reconciliation, can it ?

Lastly, wouldn't you agree that part of the money previously frozen or confiscated, by the courts has now been returned, rightly or wrongly ?

[nurofiend]

Utter nonsense. Nothing to do with that because there was no central philosophy and still isn't in the red movement. The red movement is akin to the 700,000 people that "supported" Mussolini which led to those terrible events all those years ago. We may well see history repeating itself here. It is a support base built by what Hitler proposed in Mein Kempf: That was do not build a movement on 'argumentation' but rather on appealing to the emotions. The Red Movement is solely a cross between a fan club and a movement to support one person, created by that person himself (and his cronies). Its about Greed and Power. If the Coup had been there as a long term Government (aka Burma), then perhaps there would have been a real human rights movement that understood and fought for democracy. But the Coup handed over to a Democratic process fairly quickly. Sadly, your exiled Hero has no truck with democracy and democratic principles apart from using the word as an emotional lever. Then there are many lies and rewriting of history in order to paint the post-coup Governments black. Sadly all that nonsense is transparent to all but the most hardened ideologues.

You forgot to mention Pol Pot and Mao Zedong.

You see, all the great rants on here start off slowly with the hitler comparison, maybe a mussolini sideline, but gradually build up to mention the local despots, like the aforesaid pol pot and mao zedong. Sometimes we also get a ferdinand marcos mention and if you're talking about Yingluck you can bring his missus in to the rant as well for a double whammy.

I think we've had mention of a hugo chavez which is a bit of a stretch, geographically speaking, but if you've gone that far why not try a thesis on the comparisons between the red shirts and shining path guerillas, I know it's a different country but what the hell it's just a rant, nothing factual..

But anyway, what were you saying, you kind of lost me after "utter nonsense" or was that the content title?

What a pointless insipid post.

now go on and refer to mine the same - troll

can you really not see what you've just done there?

i mean really?

[ableguy]

Agree or disagree, the fact remains that this guy speaks for probably the single largest political constituency in the country. Those opposed can denigrate, besmirch and disparage his comments all they want, but they speak from an electoral minority position. Conversely, respecting these perspectives and this political block, would probably be the best starting point to any "reconciliation" process. Easier said then done, when a sense of political inequality by some, is pervasive to their very core. It is just another reason why "Reconciliation" is 'stillborn' as a valid political exercise.

Go wash your mouth out.

[ableguy]

The Dems spent their time in power spreading hatred & vitriol. They stupidly vilified the most popular man in the country to their own detriment. Not one second of their stolen power was used to reconcile differences or make amends for the injustice they played a leading role in creating. Now they are hindering any attempts by the current, elected government to make progress. Even after their narrow minded tactics led to their humiliating trouncing at the polls they continue with their pig-headed, single-mindedness. Their grave is getting mighty deep; keep digging.

So you are saying there should be no resistance from any faction to Thaksin's reemergence?

He should never have been removed. He has been unable to set foot in his own country for several years. He has been slandered and defamed on a daily basis. He has had 46 billion baht confiscated. So the answer to your question is undoubtedly YES.

Just to comment on a few of your facts :-

I wouldn't agree that Thaksin is "the most popular man in the country", there is a far-more-deserving person, isn't there ?

I'd also point out that he was here for some months in 2008, and is only now absent by his own choice, so it's mistaken to try to claim that "he has been unable to set foot in his own country for several years".

Anyway he is allegedly (by his own claims) also a citizen of of Montenegro & Uganda & Nicaragua too, so define "his own country" !

How did the Dems play a leading role "in creating injustice", before even coming to power, do you wish to claim that they were somehow behind the 2006-coup, or the military-appointed interim-government, or the PPP-led coalition in-power when the one court-case was concluded ?

The Dems, whilst in government, were never as effective IMO as the the Red-Shirts, at "spreading hatred and vitriol", and unfortunately the propaganda-machine still rolls on after the election, this cannot help achieve reconciliation, can it ?

Lastly, wouldn't you agree that part of the money previously frozen or confiscated, by the courts has now been returned, rightly or wrongly ?

What a crock bird, do you farm up country by any chance ?

[rixalex]

You are presumably referring to the drugs war with its needless killings, certainly the blackest mark against Thaksin given his personal direction of it.However there has never been a suggestion that he faces charges for reasons everybody is familiar with notably the almost universal support of the Thai people including the ruling class.Doesn't excuse it but is certainly relevant.

To me, whether a policy has widespread support or not, makes no difference whatsoever to the level of culpability bestowed on those who actually get to sit down and study the idea, and then implement it, should it turn out being a morally bankrupt idea. The public does not sit down and study with all the facts at hand. The public is presented with carefully crafted sound bites that ignore any potential problems, and simply highlight potential benefits. If someone tells you that they have a plan to come down hard on drug dealers, and if necessary use lethal force to get drugs off the streets, who wouldn't like the sound of that? This is what the Thai public was presented with, and who would blame them for liking the idea? Now, what they were presented with, and what actually transpired, were two very different things. What actually happened, was that a good number of entirely innocent people were killed, and a good number of other people were killed simply to settle scores, or in order to clear the path for new dealers.

Should the public have known that this would happen? No, i don't think it is the public's job to think through every possible eventuality. This is what the politicians are paid to do.

Should the public in some way share the blame with those who implemented the policy? This is what you seem to suggest. If you are not suggesting the blame be shared, you are surely at the very least suggesting the blame be lessened for those at the top. To me, this is a complete nonsense.

Incidentally, I think you would have found, were people polled at the time, that there was the same widespread support for the government using whatever means necessary to clear the streets of Bangkok of red protesters in 2010, as there was widespread support for the "war on drugs". For me, in both cases, a complete irrelevance.

[Ricardo]

What a crock bird, do you farm up country by any chance ?

??? Can't quite see what point you're trying to make.

[geriatrickid]

"I think it is time to put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues," he said.

One way of doing that is to leave Thaksin out of any discussion relating to reconciliation.

Leave Thaksin in Dubai. Stop visiting him or ringing him up every five minutes. Then you can move forward and put Thailand before the bickering over Thaksin-related issues.

Why is it, then, that The Nation & Co. talk about Thaksin 10x to 20x more often than Voice TV ???

IMO, the Dems bring him up at every opportunity.

Why ?

If Richard Nixon's sister was elected President and deferred to him in political decisions, do you think the opposition would ignore the situation?

I know, not an accurate comparison - Nixon was pardoned.

well, in the state of Alabama, Gov. wallace when faced with term limit restrictions had his wife run for Governor.

In Argentina, Juan Peron had Evita run for office when good old Juan had a few issues. Argentina got a peroxide blonde dictator and the world got an opera, Evita.

How abow about Putin's cute shuffle in Russia, blocked by term limits he switched jobs and rigged a couple elections along the way. Go Vlad go. (He's a judo champion so watch what you say.)