God Finds Converts In Wake Of Tsunami

[camerata]

God finds converts in wake of tsunami

By Sebastien Berger

(Filed: 19/12/2005 - Daily Telegraph)

Next to one of the lasting reminders of the Boxing Day tsunami in Buddhist Thailand, around 50 people gathered yesterday to worship Jesus Christ.

The Love in Action ministry is alongside a 65ft fishing trawler which was swept a mile inland in Nam Khem, the town worst affected by the wave.

Survivors of the tsunami make up the congregation

at Sunday service in the new ministry at Nam Khem

A year ago there were no churches on the Khao Lak coast, where thousands died. As the first anniversary approaches there are a score, mostly set up by United States-based evangelical groups that moved in following the deluge.

James Garwood, the leader of another ministry, Life in Action in Thailand, addressed the congregation in Nam Khem, most of them local residents who have recently converted.

A former heroin addict who found Christianity in prison in the US, Mr Garwood said "hundreds and hundreds" of local residents had converted since the tsunami.

He arrived three days after the earthquake, equipped with a bag of balloons to entertain children in a nearby refugee camp. "I didn't come here to start a church," he insisted. But, he added: "I felt God tugging at my heart."

At a Christian drop-in centre, run by We Love Thailand, Phil Thompson, from Derby, said: "There were no churches along this stretch before the tsunami but now there's 20."

Missionary groups stress that they offer help to all, regardless of their religion. But there is frequently a co-incidence between conversions and the receipt of aid.

Nam Khem, a vast swathe of mud and rubble after the tsunami, has been transformed, almost entirely rebuilt by the Thai authorities.

A Christian organisation built about 50 concrete homes for Morgan sea gypsies, a few of whom have converted. Mon Khatalay, 28, said: "I came to know the Lord after the tsunami. I'm so happy, so grateful and thankful to God." At the church, Gan Klathalay, 46, wore an orange T- shirt reading "Prayer changes things" on the front and "Thank you Jesus" on the back.

A Buddhist before the tsunami, he now attends worship five times a week and holds a prayer session at home. "It seems like the Christians are very good to me, that's why I converted," he said.

While Buddhism is renowned for its tolerance, some Thais are disturbed by the phenomenon. "I'm not feeling happy," said Phra Viroth Titaphoonyo, the abbot at Wat Laem Pom, a Buddhist temple where some 20 families live in temporary homes in the grounds.

He laments the resources available to Western evangelists from fellow believers in their home countries.

"A lot convert to Christian because the Christians came to help them. We don't have money from the temples to give to the victims, but Buddhist monks have good wishes. Maybe you have a new house now but Buddhism teaches you how to survive."

"The way to help the people is totally different. If you are Buddhist, when the people jump in the water and ask for help a Buddhist teaches you how to swim. A Christian just gives them a hand and pulls them up."

[britmaveric]

[Rinrada]

[robitusson]

All I remember from the Tsunami (in the safety of Bangkok) was reading about local Buddhist land owners grabbing the vacant land that either the dead had left behind or that people had deserted either after fleeing the waves. Then there was the Buddhist cops who were busting Farang volunteers dragging bodies off the beaches for work permits and there was the fake aid scams by Buddhist Thais ripping off people who wanted to help or donate and don't forget about the Buddhist leader of the country, Khun Thaksin, turning down aid from foreign donors. No wonder people are more attracted to the people who are offering help on the ground ie. evangelical Christians, admittedly their goal is converting people to Christianity but you can't blame the locals I reckon.

[cdnvic]

All I remember from the Tsunami (in the safety of Bangkok) was reading about local Buddhist land owners grabbing the vacant land that either the dead had left behind or that people had deserted either after fleeing the waves. Then there was the Buddhist cops who were busting Farang volunteers dragging bodies off the beaches for work permits and there was the fake aid scams by Buddhist Thais ripping off people who wanted to help or donate and don't forget about the Buddhist leader of the country, Khun Thaksin, turning down aid from foreign donors. No wonder people are more attracted to the people who are offering help on the ground ie. evangelical Christians, admittedly their goal is converting people to Christianity but you can't blame the locals I reckon.

I don't think that buddhism was the reason behind these selective events. People of all beliefs do lousy things all over the world.

For every story you heared about rip offs and work permit busts there were a hundred of heroism, and generosity.

cv

[britmaveric]

Taking advantage - we help you if you convert. Same old sh*te.

[robitusson]

All I remember from the Tsunami (in the safety of Bangkok) was reading about local Buddhist land owners grabbing the vacant land that either the dead had left behind or that people had deserted either after fleeing the waves. Then there was the Buddhist cops who were busting Farang volunteers dragging bodies off the beaches for work permits and there was the fake aid scams by Buddhist Thais ripping off people who wanted to help or donate and don't forget about the Buddhist leader of the country, Khun Thaksin, turning down aid from foreign donors. No wonder people are more attracted to the people who are offering help on the ground ie. evangelical Christians, admittedly their goal is converting people to Christianity but you can't blame the locals I reckon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that buddhism was the reason behind these selective events. People of all beliefs do lousy things all over the world.

For every story you heared about rip offs and work permit busts there were a hundred of heroism, and generosity.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. I was new to Thailand at the time and I was shocked at the exploitation of people who were at their weakest. Remember they wouldn't let the Burmese workers go and look for their families or for their bodies. One of Christianity's strong points is charity.

[britmaveric]

Christianity's strong points is charity.

For a price.....

[cdnvic]

If this turns into an arguement of christianity vs buddhism it will have a short lifespan. Philosophical debates are fine, but this is starting to look more like two sides berating each other which is not on in this section.

cv

[camerata]

There's a certain symmetry in what's happening. In my experience, most (rural) Thais are very opportunistic in the sense that it's an uncertain world, and one should take one's chances when they appear because they are a result of good karma in past lives. Christian Evangelists are also opportunists, descending en masse on disaster areas and focusing on ethnic minorities or other oppressed, disadvantaged or neglected groups.

I think the Thais in this article will be Christians as long as the help and money is coming in, and then slowly revert to Buddhism, if they ever actually left it. Or perhaps they just see the Christian god as another powerful entity to be propitiated and respected in return for some tangible results.

It would be interesting to know the full story. Why don't the Buddhist temples have money to help? Clearly, some temples in Thailand are rich. Are southern temples poor because it's a predominantly Muslim area, or because the Sangha doesn't have a mechanism for diverting donated money to needy areas, or some other reason?

[thaibebop]

I am not trying to be insulting here or pick a fight but should an expat do or not do something about the missinaries that show up? I mean, do you think we have a place to protest against them or should one start their own campagin to show the Thais taken in by all this the other side of the coin?

[suegha]

Please, please, please, let's show a little tolerance! Remember, people have the right to choose their own paths. If they chose Christianity, that's their choice - if they revert to Buddism, that's their choice. People still have their free will. Let's respect that. There's no point in making any post bashing one side or the other. It's already been said - People will do bad things regardless of their religion, it's just that often that will be used as 'evidence' against them and that just doesn't make any sense, if you just stop to think about it...

[thaibebop]

Please, please, please, let's show a little tolerance!  Remember, people have the right to choose their own paths.  If they chose Christianity, that's their choice - if they revert to Buddism, that's their choice.  People still have their free will.  Let's respect that.  There's no point in making any post bashing one side or the other.  It's already been said - People will do bad things regardless of their religion, it's just that often that will be used as 'evidence' against them and that just doesn't make any sense, if you just stop to think about it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No let's not Suegha. There is a vast differene between helping someone because they need and helping them to get them on your side. I have no problem with people going to a Christian and saying 'I wish to learn of you faith" and then being taught. I do have a problem with these cultural vultures who help only to change a persons traditional culture. "Yeah, sure I'll help you as long as you stop being you and be more like me." Yes, let's have everyone in the world be the same, but not your same, only my same. No Suegha, not gonna do it.

I feel people should sprituality, it will help them through tough times and give them a view of theirs and others humanity. That spirtuality can be anything, religion or science, or whatever. But religion is something different and that's what these people are pushing. You have never been on the other side of Christianity's fence have you? You have never been spit on by compassionate followers of Chirst have you? You have never lost friends because you wouldn't pick up their cross have you?

To teach the willing student seeking knowledge is honorable, to convert is an act of subverison and thus closer to an act of evil and thus lacking honor.

[britmaveric]

If it wasn't quid pro quo I wouldn't have a problem with most christian missionaries. Here is our charity and if you want to listen/learn about our faith you are welcome if not than thats fine too.

[solo siam]

Don't people need 'work permits' to set up churches, preach etc...

[Padkapow Guy]

I hope it a beer church. I like the sound of a beer church!

[udon]

Missionaries in Khao Lak were featured on ABC TV at 1900 last night. (in Aus)

I immediately thought "WP"?

One was from Phil, a Baptist, I think, was talking about converts.

[chownah]

I am glad to see that there are so many TV posters of all persuasions who are concerned about the welfare of the Thai people affected by the tsunami and I encourage all of you to go and help these people regain their sustenance.

[nonthaburial]

Christian Churches helping the poor Thai sufferers. Dream on, in my opinion its nothing more than taking advantage of the sufferers!!!!

Lets not forget the real help came from the hearts and minds of those who bravely and admirably were on the scene amongst the rubbish and the stench for weeks if not months at their own expense and discomfort.

Can a Church really "buy" their flock and hope to keep them!!!! If they can and they do then I would suggest certain converts are merely prostituting themselves

[cdnvic]

There were many christians working among the debris and bodies too, along with buddhists, muslims, and many others.

Tone down the hostility a bit.

People are free to worship as they choose for whatever reason they choose.

cv

[thaibebop]

There were many christians working among the debris and bodies too, along with buddhists, muslims, and many others.

Tone down the hostility a bit.

People are free to worship as they choose for whatever reason they choose.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You will never hear me agrue against that. What I am talking about is people being able to make informed decisions. Here in America people are exposed to all different cultures and ideas. So, in most cases people who choose to be Christians here are making somewhat of an informed decision. They know the history of the Church and the know of some of the current things the church has got it's hands into, but these Thais don't know anything about these groups but what these groups tell them. It's like the land deals with the Native Americans, two different modes of thought and one of them is going to lose out because the are ill-informed.

[sabaijai]

There were many christians working among the debris and bodies too, along with buddhists, muslims, and many others.

Tone down the hostility a bit.

People are free to worship as they choose for whatever reason they choose.

cv

You will never hear me agrue against that. What I am talking about is people being able to make informed decisions. Here in America people are exposed to all different cultures and ideas. So, in most cases people who choose to be Christians here are making somewhat of an informed decision. They know the history of the Church and the know of some of the current things the church has got it's hands into, but these Thais don't know anything about these groups but what these groups tell them. It's like the land deals with the Native Americans, two different modes of thought and one of them is going to lose out because the are ill-informed.

Ill-informed or just practical?

[thaibebop]

There were many christians working among the debris and bodies too, along with buddhists, muslims, and many others.

Tone down the hostility a bit.

People are free to worship as they choose for whatever reason they choose.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You will never hear me agrue against that. What I am talking about is people being able to make informed decisions. Here in America people are exposed to all different cultures and ideas. So, in most cases people who choose to be Christians here are making somewhat of an informed decision. They know the history of the Church and the know of some of the current things the church has got it's hands into, but these Thais don't know anything about these groups but what these groups tell them. It's like the land deals with the Native Americans, two different modes of thought and one of them is going to lose out because the are ill-informed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ill-informed or just practical?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay that's just too little to go on. What are you talking about?

[sabaijai]

There were many christians working among the debris and bodies too, along with buddhists, muslims, and many others.

Tone down the hostility a bit.

People are free to worship as they choose for whatever reason they choose.

cv

You will never hear me agrue against that. What I am talking about is people being able to make informed decisions. Here in America people are exposed to all different cultures and ideas. So, in most cases people who choose to be Christians here are making somewhat of an informed decision. They know the history of the Church and the know of some of the current things the church has got it's hands into, but these Thais don't know anything about these groups but what these groups tell them. It's like the land deals with the Native Americans, two different modes of thought and one of them is going to lose out because the are ill-informed.

Ill-informed or just practical?

Okay that's just too little to go on. What are you talking about?

In other words, the Christians are still channeling aid into the Khao Lak area, so it behooves the recipients to go along with the program.

Buddhism most likely got its foothold in SE Asia through missionary efforts as well. I would think the people living here (Thailand) in that era - roughly AD 6-13th centuries - were even less informed than those living here today are. Before Buddhism, Brahmanism held court in SE Asia for awhile (and still does in Bali of course, as Hinduism, and even here in Thailand in certain court rituals).

I think it's a little too easy to say the natives are being misled. Perhaps they needed or wanted something that they weren't getting from Buddhism, whether on a material or spiritual level. Perhaps they are very well informed in this way, very practically focussed.

[thaibebop]

There were many christians working among the debris and bodies too, along with buddhists, muslims, and many others.

Tone down the hostility a bit.

People are free to worship as they choose for whatever reason they choose.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You will never hear me agrue against that. What I am talking about is people being able to make informed decisions. Here in America people are exposed to all different cultures and ideas. So, in most cases people who choose to be Christians here are making somewhat of an informed decision. They know the history of the Church and the know of some of the current things the church has got it's hands into, but these Thais don't know anything about these groups but what these groups tell them. It's like the land deals with the Native Americans, two different modes of thought and one of them is going to lose out because the are ill-informed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ill-informed or just practical?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay that's just too little to go on. What are you talking about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In other words, the Christians are still channeling aid into the Khao Lak area, so it behooves the recipients to go along with the program.

Buddhism most likely got its foothold in SE Asia through missionary efforts as well. I would think the people living here (Thailand) in that era - roughly AD 6-13th centuries - were even less informed than those living here today are. Before Buddhism, Brahmanism held court in SE Asia for awhile (and still does in Bali of course, as Hinduism, and even here in Thailand in certain court rituals).

I think it's a little too easy to say the natives are being misled. Perhaps they needed or wanted something that they weren't getting from Buddhism, whether on a material or spiritual level. Perhaps they are very well informed in this way, very practically focussed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seriously doubt these Thais are taking history classes that deal with the Churches interference with government. I doubt highly they know that the current Pope is/was a Nazi, or what that might mean. I doubt also that they are aware of the hate preaching that these nice people get all excited about. Ya know, the family outting to the street corner so little Timmy can hold the sign "AIDS IS A PUNISHMENT FROM GOD" My wife and her family are highly educated people, and they know next to nothing about Christianity, and why should they. They never majored in Theology. What they see here when they visit freaks them out, and I don't blame them. So, why would you think these Thais know the whole story here. I am not saying they are undereducated or stupid, but what would make you think they went and studied up on this, or that their new friends told them the truth?

And why is it that no one finds it wrong to set out to change someones culture, because you believe it to be inferior and cursed?

[robitusson]

Just for the record as a practising Buddhist I find the news regrettable that locals chose to change their faith. Although I think that Thailand let it's people down very badly after the Tsunami happened and, for reasons that nobody here knows, some locals converted to Christianity after they were given badly needed help by foreign Christians. In the spirit of Buddhism, Buddhists Thai and foreign should look at our own failings first before criticising others.

[longway]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

took the words right out of my mouth

[chownah]

Jesus was probably a closet Buddhist....he almost assuredly had studied Buddhism or at least knew about it through that spiritual group he associated with whose name I can't spell...was it the Essenes?

[sabaijai]

Just for the record as a practising Buddhist I find the news regrettable that locals chose to change their faith. Although I think that Thailand let it's people down very badly after the Tsunami happened and, for reasons that nobody here knows, some locals converted to Christianity after they were given badly needed help by foreign Christians. In the spirit of Buddhism, Buddhists Thai and foreign should look at our own failings first before criticising others.

That's more or less the point I was trying to make. Actually there was quite a lot of Buddhist assistance down there in terms of manpower, wats turned over to be used for corpse management, etc.

These folks have nothing to do with the Pope or the "Church", they're most likely non-denominational Protestants.

As for the mishes being able to change the local culture, I place my bets on the side of the villagers. There's more to culture than religion, and the Thais are famous for their sense of independence, their adaptation to change and their resilience. They're facing lots of other cultural challenges as well, might as well curse videogames, materialism and other Western 'soft power making deep inroads into Thai society here without any help from Xtian missionaries.

[suegha]

Please, please, please, let's show a little tolerance! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thaibebop wrote

You have never been on the other side of Christianity's fence have you? You have never been spit on by compassionate followers of Chirst have you? You have never lost friends because you wouldn't pick up their cross have you?

To teach the willing student seeking knowledge is honorable, to convert is an act of subverison and thus closer to an act of evil and thus lacking honor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Thaibebop, you make so many assumtions - yes I have been on the other side of the Christian fence, yes I have been illtreated by people who have called themselves Christian, yes I have lost friends to all sorts of errent beliefs! So you know very little about me but choose to make all sorts of assumptions!

You see, all that you mention does not change my relationship with God. I came to Christianity with fervent study and prayer. It does not matter to me if the Pope was/is a Nazi. It is not his behaviour that matters - it's mine.

You seem to live in a very 'black and white' world. I do not know these Christians, I do not know what is in their hearts, until we have counter evidence we should not assume the worst. If we did I could condemn our local buddists for taking in people off the streets and feeding them. Imagine if I said "oh they are only doing that to convert them" preposterous! They have done a good work regardless of their religious beliefs - respect that!

Isiah 55.6

Edited December 20, 2005 by suegha