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Lost in LOS

By Lost in LOS
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WarpSpeed Diamond Member

WarpSpeed

Posted
Posted

tax is NOT in the constitution and has not been correctly ratified.

it s volontary,mean NOT enforceable.

if you pay tax to IRS, you could be arrested.

dealing with IRS is a crime.

Show me where you have to pay tax?

Yeah, that's what Wesley Snipes thought, too.

You may write him c/o McKean Federal Correctional Institution in Lewis Run, Pa., inmate #43355-018.

Doh!! Beat me to it!!

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bunta71 Gold Member

bunta71

Posted
Posted

tax is NOT in the constitution and has not been correctly ratified.

it s volontary,mean NOT enforceable.

if you pay tax to IRS, you could be arrested.

dealing with the IRS is a crime.

Show me where you have to pay tax?

The constitution is dead, with virtually every liberty provided being constrained by spurious legislation such as the Patriot Act.

The US government closely mirrors it's Thai counterparts these days. Power elite feathering their own nests at the cost of their constituents.

What use is a constitution that can be amended?

Please tell me what the constitution says about internet usage. Realizing that there would be future needs, the framers of the constitution in Article 5 spelled this out very clearly....

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meand Silver Member

meand

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Posted

the scary part is you dont have to actually owe the taxes. IRS has a really bad system, when they think you might owe them, they give you a big bill and you have to prove you dont. They dont have to prove you do. Very scary if you are about to come to thailand and find out you have a big tax bill waiting.

Isn't this always true though? A cop says i'm speeding (let's say i'm not), and now I have to somehow miraculously prove I wasn't. Great, except for this whole innocent until proven guilty mantra. It is funny how us Americans feel about our society, the realities are different. I have never understood why it's not "guilty until you prove yourself otherwise", that is the truth, as it is with taxes as you say.

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Lost in LOS Gold Member

Lost in LOS

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the scary part is you dont have to actually owe the taxes. IRS has a really bad system, when they think you might owe them, they give you a big bill and you have to prove you dont. They dont have to prove you do. Very scary if you are about to come to thailand and find out you have a big tax bill waiting.

Isn't this always true though? A cop says i'm speeding (let's say i'm not), and now I have to somehow miraculously prove I wasn't. Great, except for this whole innocent until proven guilty mantra. It is funny how us Americans feel about our society, the realities are different. I have never understood why it's not "guilty until you prove yourself otherwise", that is the truth, as it is with taxes as you say.

thats true but this is much more devistating. Sometimes the IRS sits on it a bit before notifing you, and if your at the airport and ready to travel, and they let you know then, you up sh*ts creek

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bradleythebuyer Rookie Member

bradleythebuyer

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Posted

procrastinating on thaivisa while studying for my fed tax final. just thought i would let you guys know that unlike alot of the stuff congress or the president do, tax is constitutional.

Article 1, Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

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bradleythebuyer Rookie Member

bradleythebuyer

Posted
Posted

the scary part is you dont have to actually owe the taxes. IRS has a really bad system, when they think you might owe them, they give you a big bill and you have to prove you dont. They dont have to prove you do. Very scary if you are about to come to thailand and find out you have a big tax bill waiting.

Isn't this always true though? A cop says i'm speeding (let's say i'm not), and now I have to somehow miraculously prove I wasn't. Great, except for this whole innocent until proven guilty mantra. It is funny how us Americans feel about our society, the realities are different. I have never understood why it's not "guilty until you prove yourself otherwise", that is the truth, as it is with taxes as you say.

traffic violations are non-criminal and the standard is probably "innocent unless proven guilty by a preponderance of the evidence". I guess we could force the cop to print out the radar speed showing, but that would just increase our already huge state and municipal taxes (NYC). You are right that when the irs takes you to court, the irs's calculations are presumed to be correct, but you are free to introduce evidence to disprove it. I dunno man, i don't really see our legal process as being that bad in most aspects. Unless you are black or on the no-fly list....

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gregb Gold Member

gregb

Posted
Posted

procrastinating on thaivisa while studying for my fed tax final. just thought i would let you guys know that unlike alot of the stuff congress or the president do, tax is constitutional.

Article 1, Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

And the specious argument goes that the definition of the word "incomes" as based on other articles of law only applies to federal salaries and not private wages. Whether they have a valid argument or not is irrelevant. The point is the courts have ruled over and over that they aren't going to listen to this argument, so like it or not, income is what the courts and the IRS say it is and civil disobedience is not going to change that.

In other words, bend over, because you have no recourse. The PTB are going to continue killing defenseless Arab babies and bombing innocent wedding guests, and you are going to continue to pay for it whether you like it or not. Gotta love the USA.

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bradleythebuyer Rookie Member

bradleythebuyer

Posted
Posted

procrastinating on thaivisa while studying for my fed tax final. just thought i would let you guys know that unlike alot of the stuff congress or the president do, tax is constitutional.

Article 1, Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

And the specious argument goes that the definition of the word "incomes" as based on other articles of law only applies to federal salaries and not private wages. Whether they have a valid argument or not is irrelevant. The point is the courts have ruled over and over that they aren't going to listen to this argument, so like it or not, income is what the courts and the IRS say it is and civil disobedience is not going to change that.

In other words, bend over, because you have no recourse. The PTB are going to continue killing defenseless Arab babies and bombing innocent wedding guests, and you are going to continue to pay for it whether you like it or not. Gotta love the USA.

That is an interesting argument I guess, but pretty much every country has some form of income tax. I guess they can replace it with a consumption tax, but that will only hurt people who "work to live". Our corporate taxes might be high, but our income taxes aren't that bad compared to most western European countries, so i don't really know what all the whining is about. I am not trying to be contrarian, I just really don't understand where these people live that they don't have to pay income tax. It's not like if you own a pizzaria in the US that the IRS estimates how much pizza you sold, unless you are charged with tax evasion and the burden of proof is on them to show that you sold more pizza than you claimed.

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flying Ruby Member

flying

Posted
Posted (edited)

Took them 2 months to give us the money back after admitting their mistake.

Interest free of course wink.png

If your a day late payibg....even due to error... you owe

They can be both wrong & months late paying you & not even say Kor Tort

Edited by flying
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lomatopo Star Member

lomatopo

Posted
Posted

This sounds like a reasonable Resolution. after all, $50,000 is a rather large figure.

I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the State Department checked for things like failure to file, unpaid student loans, debts, felony warrants, non-payment of child support and the like when receiving a new passport request or renewal, and are able to deny the request.

And while the government (U.S.) cannot restrict our movements as law-abiding citizens, the issuance of a passport is more of a privilege than right, in my opinion. I am not a constitutional lawyer, nor do I play one on TV (ThaiVisa). ;)

A much more ominous turn, again in my opinion, was the Supreme Court decision this week in Florence v. Board of Chosen Freeholders of Burlington County (10-945).

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flying Ruby Member

flying

Posted
Posted

And while the government (U.S.) cannot restrict our movements as law-abiding citizens, the issuance of a passport is more of a privilege than right, in my opinion.

That is a kind of scary thought.

If our right of movement is restricted to one country...don't they have a name for that? ;)

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lomatopo Star Member

lomatopo

Posted
Posted

And while the government (U.S.) cannot restrict our movements as law-abiding citizens, the issuance of a passport is more of a privilege than right, in my opinion.

That is a kind of scary thought.

If our right of movement is restricted to one country...don't they have a name for that? wink.png

I don't know? What is the name for that? Vacation in Hawaii? Scary indeed. ;)

I always assumed the freedom of movement (Assosiated with Article Four) allowed for the unrestricted movement throughout the United States? But again, I may be wrong, I often am. And I did say it was "my opinion".

"The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."

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flying Ruby Member

flying

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't know? What is the name for that? Vacation in Hawaii? Scary indeed. wink.png

Yes Alaska too wink.png Both are after all the same country.....USA

I just meant that if a country does not allow it's citizens to leave they really cannot be called citizens any longer IMHO of course

This is a pretty good description of Freedom Of Movement

http://www.hrea.org/....php?doc_id=409

Of course it goes without saying that your right to leave your country does not garauntee

another country other than your own will allow you entry smile.png

Edited by flying
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carrera66 Rookie Member

carrera66

Posted
Posted

This sounds like a reasonable Resolution. after all, $50,000 is a rather large figure.

I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the State Department checked for things like failure to file, unpaid student loans, debts, felony warrants, non-payment of child support and the like when receiving a new passport request or renewal, and are able to deny the request.

And while the government (U.S.) cannot restrict our movements as law-abiding citizens, the issuance of a passport is more of a privilege than right, in my opinion. I am not a constitutional lawyer, nor do I play one on TV (ThaiVisa). wink.png

A much more ominous turn, again in my opinion, was the Supreme Court decision this week in Florence v. Board of Chosen Freeholders of Burlington County (10-945).

This is true, I have first hand knowledge. I could not get issued a passport until I was no longer in arrears with child support.

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