Learning English Language In Thailand: Hype Or Necessity?

[bkk_mike]

The whole issue is that they need to improve Thai teachers of English. I know one Thai English teacher, who graduated in New Zealand, who speaks good English with no accent, and if they had teachers like her in all the schools, there would be absolutely no need to have native English speakers for the teaching of English here.

After all, how many of us were taught languages at school, and how many of the teachers were actually native speakers?

I know in my case, the only native speaker was a Swiss student teacher and the French teacher complained about the "Swiss" French because it had some idiosyncracies and he spoke in a little too much slang. ("payer cash" rather than "payer avec l'argent liquide" was one I remember - just showing how English was getting around in French-speaking countries which didn't have the French language institute to ban it's use.)

Maybe they should simply use the native speakers to find the Thai English teachers that are incomprehensible in English, and become classroom assistants for them so that the kids can avoid learning the teacher's bad pronunciation, leaving the ones who can actually speak proper English to get on with the job. (This is assuming that the Thai English teacher that can't pronounce the words can at least teach written English reasonably. If they can't even do that, then it's time for them to stop teaching English...)

(I'm just thinking that given how much Thailand seems to be willing to pay, classroom assistants may be easier to hire - on the basis that a degree shouldn't be a requirement to be an assistant, which means no student debt to pay off, so that the lower salaries available here can work.)

One more pedantic point. In the OP's post, it mentions English being spoken in Indonesia as being somehow part of it's colonial past. But, with the exception of a couple of spice islands that were temporarily British and given to the Dutch in compensation for taking Manhattan, Indonesia was colonised by the Dutch. But you don't see Indonesian educators looking to put Dutch into all the schools, so the use of English there has nothing to do with Indonesia having been a former colony. (It may be, like India, more a case of so many other languages are spoken in the country, and minorities are motivated against speaking the predominant local language, meaning that English has simply ended up as the common second language)

[ozyjon]

I was invited to go to Cambodia for the first time last month,, i was extremely impressed with the level of English proficiency by many of the locals and even the beggars spoke better English than many people here in Thailand,, one young girl that sold fruit on the beach would come to me every day to sell me mangoes and i eventually asked her her age, she was 13 years old went to school in the morning and sold fruit in the afternoon, learn't English in school and spoke it fluently, i was extremely impressed, so why aren't the Thais on the same level, not so many Thais speak as good English as the Cambodians...

As for English teachers in Thailand,, many are leaving the LOS and going to work in Laos,, for now the Laos pay the teachers $10 per hour while they work, no work no pay, in Thailand you need teaching degrees to work and many don't have them so the transition is to go to Laos then Cambodia, then probably Vietnam, then there's no where to go.

[ttelise]

Hype.

Edited April 2, 2012 by ttelise

[radiochaser]

. (Note: Texas doesn't have many hills nor hillbillies)..

Thank you. I have been in some of the "hills" in Texas and those hills have a desert climate. I never once saw anyone in those hills other than someone that went with me.

ergo, there are no Texas hillbillies.

[spiritrace]

spr&q I was in London looking for a book store. I asked eight people " How do I get to Gower Street"? None of them had heard of Gower street. I wised up and wrote it down and got results......Yes, Gawaa street is just two blocks down.... Argggghhhh Gawaa? Ummmm OK. I was living in Londonderry Northern Ireland and was learning all the accents and variations there. When I lot to London, it was just another brand of accent.

Some of the best English speakers I have met were from the Netherlands. Canadians are somewhat easy to understand except for French Quebec speakers.

I get a kick out of Australian accents. When I speak Chinese they always smile, and that is how I feel listening to Austrailians. My Chinese must be funny to Chinese speakers.

My wife's sister is living with us now and we are helping each other learn Thai and English. She is learning English a lot faster than I am learning Thai.

[rfukata]

"Thailand was never colonized so why botherto learn English. For them English is the language of the British colonies. It has no place in Thai society. Someothers with a myopic vision believe that Thai peopleshould not be made to feel insecure and inferior because of all the hype about importance of learning English"

This attitude says it all. Whilst Thais hold on to this rather pathetic argument it will forever be the poor relative of Asia.

In fact, Thais lack the ability of any foreign languages in my opinion - being Chinese Mandarin/Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, the list goes on.

[Sing_Sling]

Just make English a specialization like you would math/science or whatever. Would be better.

Maths and science are not electives . . . nor should English be one.

I didn't say they should be electives as such. However, you are aware that school systems across the world have specializations, where the science kids focus on science and the lang kids focus on lang, while they all do study all subjects, right????

Yes, I am aware of that . . . but that doesn't happen until much later in their schooling, or are you suggesting that English be taught only at senior school level?

The younger they are the better they will learn

[scorecard]

There can't be effective learning without discipline first.

What about motivation?

If you start young enough 99% of kids soak up anything and everything. In fact at kinder level, and furhter, their brains drives them to search for any knowledge and any skill, they soak it up quickly and at thisyoung age 99% of kids remember everything.

[anterian]

Language is not just spoken, it is also written. The English language has evolved a simple alphabet (the Roman alphabet) which is more universal than the language itself. Modern Turkish is written in Roman letters, as is Tagalot, Malay, Indonesian etc. This has a double benefit, not only does it make it easier for them to learn English but English speakers find it easier to learn the local language.

The Thais take a nationalistic pride in their unique script of curls and squiggles but it is a major obstacle to progress, imagine if we had to write everything using Gothic script . Yes Thai is an inflected language, but so is French, they use accents to show inflection, acute rising, grave falling. Thais who are competent in English type in English, it is so much faster than typing in Thai.

[MaxLee]

Well on the other hand I can understand why he majority of Thai people don't want to converse in English.

We foreigners are in their territory, so why should they adjust to US and our foreign accent. Sometimes you gotta understand their points of view, as well. We cannot blame them for not speaking a language that they're not going to use in their daily lives unless they work for an international company.

I think IMO there must be discipline implementation first before any form of academics are being taught. Without discipline there's no motivation, no encouragement for learning AND social behavior, no relevance or whatsoever possible for both students and lecturers as they'll be talking across each other day by day without getting any message across. Everything left is pure frustration for the lecturers at the end because they are the ones to take the blame for a student's misfortune.

[mackes]

This raise an interesting question, how come Thai is so hard to learn for English speakers? Is it caused by the writing/reading system or is it actually the language itself that I personally consider more simple than English. And how come it seemes that Thai's have easier to learn English!

I studied french from schratch and came to a higher level in 1 month than I have done with Thai in 6 months, and I hear a lot of similar comments.

I beleive that we need a global way of communicate and why invent the wheel again? We have a language and a sign system used all over the world and most important used by the new global media like facebook and equals.

[Heimdallr]

The level of English teaching in most schools is not up to par. The problem is Thai teachers who haven't been properly trained. It's no wonder people don't know how to use it.

What surprises me the most is that anyone could even think of arguments AGAINST learning English. If your attitude is that you don't want to learn, you should not also complain about losing your job in 2015 when AEC kicks in.

[AGareth2]

depends where you live

[louse1953]

Honestly I don't care, but I would prefer that Thais stop learning English(I speak Thai thought) at all because it will increase my chances to get a good and nice payed job

Pity you can't write English.

[JGV]

The Thai power elite are not interested in promoting the learning of English because they perceive that speaking English means greater knowledge and therefore a threat to their grip on wealth in this cou8ntry

[louse1953]

There can't be effective learning without discipline first.

What about motivation?

If you start young enough 99% of kids soak up anything and everything. In fact at kinder level, and furhter, their brains drives them to search for any knowledge and any skill, they soak it up quickly and at thisyoung age 99% of kids remember everything.

Doing it now with 2 year old niece,and she's on to it.Thai and English coming out together,but we'll sort that out later.

[scorecard]

I think on balance it is an excellent article.

Whilst there is no substitute for the immersion method (when people ask my wife, who has lived in an English speaking country now for 2 and a half years, how her English got so good she says, "I didn't have any choice if I wanted to communicate with people") if one is going to learn to speak English then it is best if it is coming from someone who not only knows how to speak the language, but how to teach it. So many posters here have scoffed at the notion, but it makes sense. An experienced teacher of English understands where a foreigner, or secifically a Thai, is going to struggle, and focusses on that. Experience is what I'm talking about.

It has been said, and correctly, though that these people will not be attracted here while the rates of pay are so pathetic. That comes down to funding and that comes down to people wanting it to happen. And the politicians don't want it to happen badly enough yet.

To suggest a rural-dwelling Thai rice farmer needs to speak English is ridiculous of course. But it is far more ridiculous to suggest that it would not be advantageous for the average skills in speaking English across Thailand to be improved dramatically. Thais have an Asia-wide reputation for having lousy, or non-existant, English skills. And it matters.

I'm interested in your last paragraph. Sure, on an average day basis, the average Thai Essan farmer talks to other Thais in Thai langauge and doesn't need English.

But why not install English immersion at a very young age as a standard part of theschool curriculum for all Thais, like the Philliipines and many more countries, then global communication capability is there when needed.

In 2015 on onwards more Thais will encounter a variety of Asian folks, surely it would be better in many ways if everybody can communicate on at least one global language.

And there's the converse, from 2015 Asean will be open in terms of job opportunities etc. The day will come, you can guarantee, when some Thais will dsicover good career opportunites in Singapore, etc., but if they can't speak English they will not be considered for the job.

Edited April 3, 2012 by scorecard

[louse1953]

I think on balance it is an excellent article.

Whilst there is no substitute for the immersion method (when people ask my wife, who has lived in an English speaking country now for 2 and a half years, how her English got so good she says, "I didn't have any choice if I wanted to communicate with people") if one is going to learn to speak English then it is best if it is coming from someone who not only knows how to speak the language, but how to teach it. So many posters here have scoffed at the notion, but it makes sense. An experienced teacher of English understands where a foreigner, or secifically a Thai, is going to struggle, and focusses on that. Experience is what I'm talking about.

It has been said, and correctly, though that these people will not be attracted here while the rates of pay are so pathetic. That comes down to funding and that comes down to people wanting it to happen. And the politicians don't want it to happen badly enough yet.

To suggest a rural-dwelling Thai rice farmer needs to speak English is ridiculous of course. But it is far more ridiculous to suggest that it would not be advantageous for the average skills in speaking English across Thailand to be improved dramatically. Thais have an Asia-wide reputation for having lousy, or non-existant, English skills. And it matters.

I'm interested in your last paragraph. Sure, on an average day basis, the average Thai Essan farmer talks to other Thais in Thai langauge and doesn't need English.

But why not install English immersion at a very young age as a standard part of theschool curriculum for all Thais, like the Philliipines and many more countries, then global communication capability is there when needed.

In 2015 on onwards more Thais will encounter a variety of Asian folks, surely it would be better in many ways if everybody can communicate on at least one global language.

And there's the converse, from 2015 Asean will be open in terms of job opportunities etc. The day will come, you can guarantee, when some Thais will dsicover good career opportunites in Singapore, etc., but if they can't speak English they will not be considered for the job.

I agree,but how has English benefited P.I.,except as cheap labor in other countries.

[Baerboxer]

screw english, i'm learning mandarin

Very intelligent and perceoptive. And everyone in China is learning.............. English!

[sfbandung]

I think on balance it is an excellent article.

Whilst there is no substitute for the immersion method (when people ask my wife, who has lived in an English speaking country now for 2 and a half years, how her English got so good she says, "I didn't have any choice if I wanted to communicate with people") if one is going to learn to speak English then it is best if it is coming from someone who not only knows how to speak the language, but how to teach it. So many posters here have scoffed at the notion, but it makes sense. An experienced teacher of English understands where a foreigner, or secifically a Thai, is going to struggle, and focusses on that. Experience is what I'm talking about.

It has been said, and correctly, though that these people will not be attracted here while the rates of pay are so pathetic. That comes down to funding and that comes down to people wanting it to happen. And the politicians don't want it to happen badly enough yet.

To suggest a rural-dwelling Thai rice farmer needs to speak English is ridiculous of course. But it is far more ridiculous to suggest that it would not be advantageous for the average skills in speaking English across Thailand to be improved dramatically. Thais have an Asia-wide reputation for having lousy, or non-existant, English skills. And it matters.

I'm interested in your last paragraph. Sure, on an average day basis, the average Thai Essan farmer talks to other Thais in Thai langauge and doesn't need English.

But why not install English immersion at a very young age as a standard part of theschool curriculum for all Thais, like the Philliipines and many more countries, then global communication capability is there when needed.

In 2015 on onwards more Thais will encounter a variety of Asian folks, surely it would be better in many ways if everybody can communicate on at least one global language.

And there's the converse, from 2015 Asean will be open in terms of job opportunities etc. The day will come, you can guarantee, when some Thais will dsicover good career opportunites in Singapore, etc., but if they can't speak English they will not be considered for the job.

I agree,but how has English benefited P.I.,except as cheap labor in other countries.

Scorecard, I agree entirely, but what a task! They have to start somewhere.

And louse1953 (interesting choice of nom de plum, I supopse it beats Nit):

That depends very much on where you look. I do see where you're coming from if you look at the west, or even UAE where the Filipinas are commonly maids, or the men gardeners, or such.

I live in Port Moresby and all over Papua New Guinea people from the Philippines are very visible in the professions. Accounting in particular, and also for some reason pharmacists, virtually every pharmacist here is from the Philippines.

I suppose a telling issue is that of visas. A Thai can come to PNG and get a tourist visa on arrival as there is virtually no risk of them working illegally. Philipinos cannot. It all comes back to English skills.

[Baerboxer]

The problem isn't necessarily that all Thais should learn English.

It's that the ones that do decide to learn English should be able to learn from better qualified English teachers.

You hit the nail rite on the head. Many areas might never need the English language as they will not be involved in business. Do you need English to work in a rice paddy or on a assembly line. The need for English is definitely there but not for 95% of the population.

Go to a market where they don't speak English and you will soon see that they can understand your needs. Just point on the other hand there are the ignorant ones who just stand there and blabber on in English and make no attempt to communicate.

I don't consider the British colonization as that I consider it the British attempt at rapeing the world.

People forget that China is just waking up and they might do better to learn some form of Chinese.

But to be fair about it China does have the largest English speaking population in the world.

Almost forgot last summer we visited Angkor Wat. There were many English speaking Cambodians but thy could not understand it.

Too many people live in the past - Euopean countries and the US had colonies. The Belgians have the worst record for mistreatment, the French didn't leave as much behind as the British and Americans in terms of educational and infrastructure systems. The "greater" Japanese empire and German "Lebensraum" colonization of East Europe were relatively short lived, but millions were totured and murdered. This is history - however it's better to move forward and focus on the future. English is the language of business and academia. There are more people learning English than anyother language. Putonghua and Spanish would be good second and third choices if you're linguistically proficient. If you live in a country you should also make the effort to learn the language. English teachers, like all other subject teachers, have to possess teaching skills as well as subject matter knowledge.

[Baerboxer]

I speak enough Chinese and Japanese to get by but Thai is difficult for me to learn. Don't know why, just is.

English is the Universal Business language and becoming the social universal language. Conversational English is most important. I am not so concerned about the technical issues of English or spelling. Conversational English at least gets the lines of communication going. Most people who are learning English will never need to know the technical applications of the language or precise spelling.

Also American English is much easier to understand. I have spoken with a lot of farang English speakers and the British English is hard to understand at times.

Conversational English first then if the person wants to go on they can learn the technical after that.

I agree that Chinese seems easier to learn then Thai - I've found the same, both speaking and writing.

English should be taught correctly - i.e the Queen's English. Conversational English and written English are important and require a basic knolwedge of correct grammatical structure.

I have many American friends - from Lawyers and CEO's through to martial artists and engineers. They all speak more slowly and loudly than the aeverage British person, and their accents are less obstructive. I would find it hard to understand some strong distinctive British accents. (Try Glaswegian, Geordie or Scouse in full flow!).

I have met many teachers from India, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, US and Philipinnes in various countries. At least 80% weren't capable of speaking or writing English correctly, particuarly the ones from Asia. Sadly, a lot of British 'teachers" here seem to fall into the same category.

Encouraging people to ignore correct spelling, grammar and use colloquial American, Australian or oher expressions will impede their ability to study and progress in their career. Anyone wanting to go and live in the UK, a Thai wife for instance, will require a good standard of English to understand and pass the citizenship test, if desired. I met many Thai wifes in the UK who spoke reasonable English but could not read, write and understand things like "double negatives". They need this for the tests.

[xthAi76s]

Thai is so hard because it's messy, ancient has not evolved much in thousands of years. English is easier for the exact opposite reasons.

This raise an interesting question, how come Thai is so hard to learn for English speakers? Is it caused by the writing/reading system or is it actually the language itself that I personally consider more simple than English. And how come it seemes that Thai's have easier to learn English!

I studied french from schratch and came to a higher level in 1 month than I have done with Thai in 6 months, and I hear a lot of similar comments.

I beleive that we need a global way of communicate and why invent the wheel again? We have a language and a sign system used all over the world and most important used by the new global media like facebook and equals.

[Thai at Heart]

Couldn't help but wonder when yesterday during the celebrations of the victory for DLP in Burma, just about every person who's nose that a reporter put a microphone under could speak passable English. Their English wasn't flawless but it was more than passable for a man on the street. If Burma really opens up, Thailand had better hang onto its hat.

As for the debate about whether these things are a necessity or not, the word necessity suggests a life and death or absolutely critical issue which misses the point entirely. Is learning foreign language a good thing for a student? Yes. Which language is the most useful to a student or beyond that the country? Probably English today and for the medium term, then probably Mandarin. Is language proficiency strong enough in Thailand? No. Does the country as a whole stand to benefit if its student output has improved English skills? Yes. This isn't some discussion about colonization or history, or foreign intervention, or erosion of culture, it is about abilities and skills of people.

So, whilst it isn't a life and death issue for an individual, it is overall a good thing in so many ways for a person and then the country beyond it, that yes, more efforts should be made to effectively teach English. The interesting thing about English, is that it doesn't need to be flawless to be understood, but to possess virtually zero as many high school students today is a shame indeed.

As for the rules about work permits, there are probably 10,000 retired native speaking teachers already living in the country who would volunteer for a coffee and a snack, and whilst they may be mathematics or biology teachers, they would be more than qualified to teach 5 to 10 year olds the basics of English as a second language.

[Om85]

Honestly I don't care, but I would prefer that Thais stop learning English(I speak Thai thought) at all because it will increase my chances to get a good and nice payed job

Pity you can't write English.

Hahahahaha, that's right I don't speak English, I speak Spanglish.

[belg]

whatever you say, thailand does not need educated people who speak english... they need farmers and factory workers at the lowest salary, so the elite can remain the elite and keep the poor dumb and poor

Edited April 3, 2012 by belg

[kerryk]

Educated women from the Philippines come to Thailand because they make more money than at home and the food is better. I don't know why else.

I don't know why but there is a drastic difference between English language ability in teachers of English from the Philippines.

I have worked with Filipino English teachers who I could not tell if they were American college educated native speakers on the phone. I have also worked with Filipino English teachers who could hardly speak English.

They were both making peanuts teaching in Thailand.

The answer seems obvious since there are many many English teachers available in the Philippines for the right price and they are willing to teach in Thailand. Seems the only problem is finding someone who can speak English to interview them.

[Sing_Sling]

I agree,but how has English benefited P.I.,except as cheap labor in other countries.

You're looking at the wrong market - but let's look at the domestic helper situation, maids. Our maid is a Filipina and they earn twice as much as Indonesian maids as a basic salary . . . because they can speak English - how can you dismiss that?

Nurses? Our youngest was born in Singapore at Gleneagles Hospital - a very expensive place . . . most of the nurses were Filipina. Why? Because they can speak English . . . how could you dismiss that?

Accountants (mentioned earlier) in MNCs - many are Filipinos . . . look at the Disney office in Singapore - Filipinos. Disney distributors in Thailand in charge of sourcing product - Filipinas.

Maids anywhere Thai? No.

Nurses anywhere Thai? No.

Accountants anywhere Thai? No.

Management jobs anywhere Thai? No.

What do all these jobs have in common? The language of communication is English . . .and for those who are 'cheap' labour - no need to denigrate them as they are the Philippines' largest source of income . . . all because of English.

Let's not even mention Singaporeans, Malaysians etc . . .

Thais? Nope. English is one reason, their ineffective education another

[kerryk]

I agree,but how has English benefited P.I.,except as cheap labor in other countries.

You're looking at the wrong market - but let's look at the domestic helper situation, maids. Our maid is a Filipina and they earn twice as much as Indonesian maids as a basic salary . . . because they can speak English - how can you dismiss that?

Nurses? Our youngest was born in Singapore at Gleneagles Hospital - a very expensive place . . . most of the nurses were Filipina. Why? Because they can speak English . . . how could you dismiss that?

Accountants (mentioned earlier) in MNCs - many are Filipinos . . . look at the Disney office in Singapore - Filipinos. Disney distributors in Thailand in charge of sourcing product - Filipinas.

Maids anywhere Thai? No.

Nurses anywhere Thai? No.

Accountants anywhere Thai? No.

Management jobs anywhere Thai? No.

What do all these jobs have in common? The language of communication is English . . .and for those who are 'cheap' labour - no need to denigrate them as they are the Philippines' largest source of income . . . all because of English.

Let's not even mention Singaporeans, Malaysians etc . . .

Thais? Nope. English is one reason, their ineffective education another

Don't forget Filipino English teachers. Thai English teachers?

[Sing_Sling]

^ Quite right . . .

I don't really like the Philippines, their food is abysmal and their accent grating to the extreme . . . but you have to give credit where credit is due and not simply brush off 80+ million people as being 'cheap labor'