Ethical Question In A Relationship.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

OK, I haven't read all the advice given, and I know mine isn't PC but here goes for what it's worth.

Thai women hooking up with farang men will never (IMO thank god) have the same attitude about women's rights and equality as those in the west. (OT for 99.99% - the exception would be very upper-class hi-so educated and spent time living in the west, which I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.)

You are the man, the provider and the boss. Your job is to figure out how to make her happy and to manage the family finances for the long term. Her job is to take charge of the house and kids and be a willing and enthusiastic romantic partner.

If you have sufficient resources and she shows herself to be reasonably conservative, then by all means set up the pretence of giving her access to a certain pool of money to draw upon and spend as she likes. Her taking care of her parents and other family members is an important obligation to you, and forcing her to hide this from you is setting up what you're getting.

Don't expect total openness and honesty from her, just reasonable outcomes, if she's actually financially conservative and considerate of your nuclear family unit, that's 5000% better than what most farang get, so be appreciative and reward it by cutting her some slack.

I would definitely advise against making all your property available to her, as things can radically change down the road, and the wonderful ethics you see at first may simply be long-term practicality, and once the relationship starts to go sour her financial conservatism may change. IMO there isn't any reason for her to even know the details of your salary and assets, it is your job as the senior to shield her from having to worry her pretty little head about such things. And also your responsibility to protect the family unit, or if that falls apart, yourself from predation.

So yes, for most Thai partners I would advise an explicit monthly allowance you can afford - it won't be able to be reduced, even if you lose your job or business is bad. Random gifts of cash and in kind (Thai gold is #1) to show her you love her on a regular basis. In your head allocate another say 30-50% for unexpected above-and-beyond direct expenses for her, but don't make that explicit, that's your wiggle room for being reasonable, let it accumulate if unused over time so you can give it to her freely without resentment when the inevitable emergency arises.

Any accounts or property you put in joint names can be "publicly" considered as joint, but in your heart realize that you've given her an outright gift and release it freely if things go sour.

Basically treat her as if she's a relatively immature western teenager, and if she surprises you by actually acting as a responsible adult by our standards so much the better.

As I said I realize from a theoretical PC POV the above is heinous and disgusting, so please save your high and mighty breath.

I consider it the utmost wisdom hard earned from long and varied experience in the kingdom from a purely **practical** POV.

Edit - OK I scanned the tail end of this and didn't realize things have spiraled downward so fast. Once the pretense of trusting each other has fallen apart, it will be very difficult to salvage the relationship, but not impossible. Perhaps the above advice can be useful when starting your next relationship, assuming you won't be able to go back to the usual culturally-sanctioned western-style arrangement.

This bears emphasis and repeating:

**Don't expect total openness and honesty from her, just reasonable outcomes**.

Worst-case scenario - within your heart realize she is a service provider and you are the employer. Do your best to maintain the romantic fictions for the value of her face, but don't let yourself get scammed. When you're no longer receiving good value compared to your ongoing outlay (keeping in mind that past deposits are water under the bridge and can't be counted anymore), then it's time to execute your exit strategy.

Best of luck!

Edited April 8, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[SOTIRIOS]

...you know the truth in your heart, bro.....it is sad but true....there is no loyalty towards you....you are a 'ticket' to what she wants.....I have been 'cleaned out' myself......just in my case, married, with 2 daughters..so hanging on for my daughters, living like a refugee....want the same, or worse???

[how241]

Someone who drew 50,000 baht for two months,from your account,and claims she doesn't remember what she used it for,doesn't need a polygraph,you are desperately clutching at straws,and you already know she is lying.

Face up to it! instead of dreaming up more excuses for her deviousness,and save the expense of the Polygraph,use the saving for a one way ticket as far away from her as possible!

Sounds like she has a "Brother", husband, or boyfriend. Yes, it is possible even though you might think it is 100% Not possible. Just check with the "Many" that have already had this happen to them.

[jvs]

Why would you even mention she has not been in a gogo bar before meeting you?Is this saying something about where you met her?You do not need any advice other then listen to your heart!What would happen if you went out for a night and the next morning you told her you forgot where you went or what you did?The writing is on the wall!!!

[TommoPhysicist]

Why would you even mention she has not been in a gogo bar before meeting you?Is this saying something about where you met her?You do not need any advice other then listen to your heart!What would happen if you went out for a night and the next morning you told her you forgot where you went or what you did?The writing is on the wall!!!

How could anybody possibly know the past of their partner/girlfriend in any country of the world.

People don't always tell the truth about their past.

Edited April 8, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Derifo]

She is doing what almost any human being would do, taking what she now believes is hers by right.

If you want serious advice, empty your joint account, dump her and start again, you have already spoiled this relationship for both of you. If you insist on continuing the relationship, things will only get worse.

By spoiled you mean I gave her access to all my money? Well, I don't know what sort of relationships guys have here? Give your wife/GF a monthly allowance, a budget? That isn't the relationship in my book. I was married once before (in Canada) and I didn't have to do any of these things to my now ex-wife, we both had a common interest in accumulating wealth and in our spendings. I wasted 7 years back then but came out clean with no payments or supports of any kind. The irony was that we broke over her not wanting to have kids and when it happened I was glad we didn't make any. That was offtopic.

Maybe my problem is that I am trying to apply western standarts to Thailand and a Thai girl. Not sure if it's possible but when you have to give your wife a monthly allowance it's a joke, not a relationship.

This isn't Canada. Welcome to the real world.

As a poster said, things will only get worse.

[kaorop]

Harsh reply following so be forewarned

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Your over confidence as a bf/hus is part of your problem, you think "well she can't do better"

so you think she will be a good gf/wife, naive to say the least.

That you dont know about saving face ie: lying in thai culture, the love of all thing korean

and no doubt more, says you haven't learnt much about "thai style.

Playing the lie detector card shows how relationship immature you are.

Good luck all the same.

[belg]

you are starting to pay the lease price...

you never own a woman anyway, even you marry her

think instead of paying a longlife lease... if you marry her, she will take half of what is yours, what you saved for all your life, even she is only in it for a few + a nice monthly bonus till you die

[Tanaka]

I must admit, I am somewhat confused. You don't believe in giving her an allowance (thats not your idea of a relationship), so you give her access to your money, but when she takes it you throw a wobbly?

As you say the issue is not about the money, what is the issue about? That she is using the money in a way that you do not approve of, or condone?

In this case, I would look to the family - I would bet there is a problem there somewhere -and that is where the money is going. Maybe she thinks that you are going to either refuse or go off the deep end if she told you where it was really going?

Whatever, the problem is that she has something going on that you two are not talking about - that is as much a warning sign as anything. Your best option at this point is to sit down and try to sort out what is going on -and find out what is she afraid to tell you.

Lastly, as a personal opinion - any time that "polygraph" is seen as potentially relationship saving device - its already way too late.

Yes she was allowed to spend the money for her needs but moving money from our account to her wasn't one of the needs, she knew that there would be troubles if she did that and she knew how I even felt about her keeping her separate account. It was discussed a number of times when the Budget topic was brought up.

There indeed was a tragedy in her family, in the mid of Feb her dad was cutting a tree and it smashed and crushed his foot real bad, he's still recovering and on the crutches, however it happened after her first 50,000 withdrawal. She said that while he was in a hospital he had to pay 16,000 so she helped him a bit (3500 she said), that account for some of the money. I do believe she was shopping, I know she had some expences but that was nowhere near the amont that came off of the account.

If there is anything alse going on in her family, she's not telling and I didn't see anything as I used to go visit them quite often.

I hope you're wrong on your personal opinion, I understand it's morally wrong but there's just too much going trough my head and I don't have a clear picture in there, I might regreat it later when my head clears up, or I might not regreat it at all. Time will tell.

I think you know. Thais are not like western women, they do not think alike and their priorities are not the same. And lying, if it benefits her, does not mean the same to her as it does to you. She took 100.000B and cannot remember what she did with it! She is lying to you. If you can accept that and that it will only get worse, up to you. My advice would be to collect your things, bank book and whatever you keep with her and get out. Do not, repeat do not take her to Canada again! She is using you and she will continue to do so as long as it is beneficial for her and then she will dump you.