Thailand Really Likes Old Western Guys

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think Max is merely trying to get a reasoned reply from you Kerry.

It's not difficult. You've accused him of being a "Drunken Typical Thai Visa" poster in your rather angry (and poorly edited) reply above...at least do him the courtesy of a reply to any point he may have made...

One thing I can recognise is a man fighting a losing battle and just banging his head against the wall.

Now, lets have a beer and be friends...

For some odd reason Firefox and Ubuntu are not letting me make paragraphs or edit. I am working on it. If I knew what kind of reply Max wanted I would try and oblige. But I havn't a clue.

I get that sometimes when there is an HTML formatted link nearby. Best to paste links as plain text. Or if there's HTML or other formatted stuff already then I select all content, cut the text, and then paste as plain text. (Chrome has that option, not sure about Firefox, but if it doesn't then just paste into a plain-jane text editor first, then copy and paste back in from there.

[mackes]

The western hunt for success and money? What exactly does that mean? Are Canadians any more hungry for money and success than the Chinese? Are the Italians lives more stressful than the Japanese?

Stop lumping everything bad as 'western' when western is such a diluted generalization it can have no real meaning any more than you can lump the ideologies, culture and work ethic of China, Cambodia, Philippines, Pakistan, Thailand and Taiwan together as an 'Eastern' way of life.

Contrary to what you believe the Western world does not consist solely of brash arrogant 1980s yuppies screwing everyone over.

Have I said I believe that or is it just another personal attack?

I think that that discussion is another subject and will participate if you start a thread about it.

What I wanted to say herr is that there are disadvantages with the "western" way, for example an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

I can see a much larger focus on this in the east. You must admit that people in Thailand pay much less attention to how their environment looks and much more attention to family matters versus USA Or Northern Europe to be specific.

[maxme]

The western hunt for success and money? What exactly does that mean? Are Canadians any more hungry for money and success than the Chinese? Are the Italians lives more stressful than the Japanese?

Stop lumping everything bad as 'western' when western is such a diluted generalization it can have no real meaning any more than you can lump the ideologies, culture and work ethic of China, Cambodia, Philippines, Pakistan, Thailand and Taiwan together as an 'Eastern' way of life.

Contrary to what you believe the Western world does not consist solely of brash arrogant 1980s yuppies screwing everyone over.

Have I said I believe that or is it just another personal attack?

I think that that discussion is another subject and will participate if you start a thread about it.

What I wanted to say herr is that there are disadvantages with the "western" way, for example an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

I can see a much larger focus on this in the east. You must admit that people in Thailand pay much less attention to how their environment looks and much more attention to family matters versus USA Or Northern Europe to be specific.

Inability to care about and handle the emotional life? That's what you have shrinks for and that little perk is only available if at all, to the rich in the east.

Individualism doesn't really exist to the same extent in Thailand as it does in the West therefor a lot of the habits move on from generation to generation here not because it's the right way but because that's the way it is.

However with the "westernization" growing in SEA so does consumerism and if you think you can escape that by being here then wait 10 years and you'll wish you were in your home country instead.

Edited April 19, 2012 by maxme

[mackes]

Inability to care about and handle the emotional life? That's what you have shrinks for and that little perk is only available if at all, to the rich in the east.

Individualism doesn't really exist to the same extent in Thailand as it does in the West therefor a lot of the habits move on from generation to generation here not because it's the right way but because that's the way it is.

However with the "westernization" growing in SEA so does consumerism and if you think you can escape that by being here then wait 10 years and you'll wish you were in your home country instead.

A shrink's task is taking care of the symptoms created by not taking care of your emotional life,

and thats a huge difference. The caretaking is up to your deep relationships as with family, friends

or a priest. This is one of the problems in the west, there is no time for deeper relations.

Your second comment is typical in the west today, individualism before everything else to whatever price.

Yes the group creates an amount of inertia, but sometimes that can be healthy, a discovery that comes with age

On the last point your probably right, when that day come I will certainly move elsewhere.

But the western economy is on the verge of a chrash, so we'll see if that day really come.

Look at this video and you might see my point. But as said before, that's another thread.

[culicine]

Fantastic topic, thanks to OP for posting it.

To give just one example, at Songkran the whole family comes to show their respect to me, i.e. wish me sawatdee pimai, and they throw some rose scented water over my hands and shoulder. That's respect and the only thing I like about songkran.

Unfortunately it's a big family so I'm soaked at the end of it all but I love it !

In my home country I'm just an old fart who doesn't know the latest trends in music, fashion etc.

Well done Kerryk !

Yermanee

And so often happens in the West, once you are too old to look after yourself they will shuffle you off to the nearest nursing home !! Then fight over who gets to like in your house. Unlike Thailand where the parents how is the 'family home' - everyone in the family can live there if they want, but there will always be someone home to look after the parents until their dying day. So children are always indebted to the parents for them having raised them; and they return this be looking after them in their old age. Not so much in BKK these days, but certainly this is the norm upcountry.

[maxme]

Inability to care about and handle the emotional life? That's what you have shrinks for and that little perk is only available if at all, to the rich in the east.

Individualism doesn't really exist to the same extent in Thailand as it does in the West therefor a lot of the habits move on from generation to generation here not because it's the right way but because that's the way it is.

However with the "westernization" growing in SEA so does consumerism and if you think you can escape that by being here then wait 10 years and you'll wish you were in your home country instead.

A shrink's task is taking care of the symptoms created by not taking care of your emotional life,

and thats a huge difference. The caretaking is up to your deep relationships as with family, friends

or a priest. This is one of the problems in the west, there is no time for deeper relations.

Your second comment is typical in the west today, individualism before everything else to whatever price.

Yes the group creates an amount of inertia, but sometimes that can be healthy, a discovery that comes with age

On the last point your probably right, when that day come I will certainly move elsewhere.

But the western economy is on the verge of a chrash, so we'll see if that day really come.

Look at this video and you might see my point. But as said before, that's another thread.

The shrink analyzes the symptoms and reveals the crucial points you need to deal with but the healing process is up to yourself and that's where individualism kicks in. Put a regular Thai guy to work and by that I mean no education from one of the fancier schools or universities. Let's say in a warehouse, minimum guidance and let him act on his own, find out how it works and what he must do. What would be the outcome of this little experiment?

It's not really his fault since they don't teach individuals in schools, they teach a flock of sheep like did with the miners in the 50s. Old habits die hard and there have been plenty of time to adjust the educational system here but nothing has been done so far.

Why? Because that's exactly how the elite want them. Inable to do functions more than what they are told.

So that cake don't bake as this is not what the Thais wanted, its simply what it has become. You may look upon the process of individualism as a prison but the Thai who got a good education abroad and came back to his/her homeland with a fresh and objective mind, may disagree with you.

Edited April 19, 2012 by maxme

[Kananga]

The western hunt for success and money? What exactly does that mean? Are Canadians any more hungry for money and success than the Chinese? Are the Italians lives more stressful than the Japanese?

Stop lumping everything bad as 'western' when western is such a diluted generalization it can have no real meaning any more than you can lump the ideologies, culture and work ethic of China, Cambodia, Philippines, Pakistan, Thailand and Taiwan together as an 'Eastern' way of life.

Contrary to what you believe the Western world does not consist solely of brash arrogant 1980s yuppies screwing everyone over.

Have I said I believe that or is it just another personal attack?

I think that that discussion is another subject and will participate if you start a thread about it.

What I wanted to say herr is that there are disadvantages with the "western" way, for example an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

I can see a much larger focus on this in the east. You must admit that people in Thailand pay much less attention to how their environment looks and much more attention to family matters versus USA Or Northern Europe to be specific.

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Kananga

[mackes]

The shrink analyzes the symptoms and reveals the crucial points you need to deal with but the healing process is up to yourself and that's where individualism kicks in. Put a regular Thai guy to work and by that I mean no education from one of the fancier schools or universities. Let's say in a warehouse, minimum guidance and let him act on his own, find out how it works and what he must do. What would be the outcome of this little experiment?

It's not really his fault since they don't teach individuals in schools, they teach a flock of sheep like did with the miners in the 50s. Old habits die hard and there have been plenty of time to adjust the educational system here but nothing has been done so far.

Why? Because that's exactly how the elite want them. Inable to do functions more than what they are told.

So that cake don't bake as this is not what the Thais wanted, its simply what it has become. You may look upon the process of individualism as a prison but the Thai who got a good education abroad and came back to his/her homeland with a fresh and objective mind, may disagree with you.

I see the mental health like physical exercise, If you take care of your body you don't need the doctor, the same goes for your mental health.

I don't really understand the mix of mental health and individualism but It might be that when I talking individualism I refer to the

freedom for the individ to take care of himself and his interests solely and that is in my opinion not an attractive feature.

If we are talking taking responsibility, for me that is not the same thing as individualism. I agree that the teaching of

understanding and of taking responsibility lacks in Thai schools, just like it did in Europe 50 years ago. You have to

understand that you can not compare Thailand and Europe/America today. We are not in the same phase of development.

And the talk about how the elite wants the masses is qualified bullshit, it doesn't work that way today. The masses are

affected in a much more sophisticated way via media and most often not by politicians but from commercial interests directly.

[mackes]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

[sparebox2]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

Singaporean are BANANA. Yellow outside, White inside.

[maxme]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

Do you have freinds in Singapore who are not Westerners? You need to see this from a broader perspective than that of the spectroanalyze thinking you have.

How can you implement something like responsibility when the word itself doesn't even exist in Thailand?

In layman's terms so you might get what I'm hinting at... You need to think out of the box which most Thai people don't since the reality for them is here and now and infront of them. Responsibility growd out of individualism.

The common Thai atleast in the south doesn't even know how to cross a street without getting hit by a bike or a car. The older generation here doesn't teach the youth sth new but the same old doctrine that was handed to them before by their parents. Anything else wouldn't be considered "Thai".

As for comparing Asia to the West was just a poor excuse to hide your failed attempt in trying to comprehend what I was getting at.

World wide people are fighting to have what we have in the West. Is a Chevy or is it having bbq, hotdogs and enjoying a baseball game?

No, the right to be heard, a decent salary, the right to vote, if one is unemployed atleast would be given food stamps. Aren't all striving for these social aspects?

[TommoPhysicist]

This thread has become really dull.

Maybe a mod should think of closing it?

[mackes]

This thread has become really dull.

Maybe a mod should think of closing it?

Is dull a reason to close? Anyway, good idea, we derailed

[maxme]

This thread has become really dull.

Maybe a mod should think of closing it?

Whenever there is a topic you can't put your words in, it's dull... If we would go by your vocab we would have to close 70% of the threads.

[wana]

This thread has become really dull.

Maybe a mod should think of closing it?

if being dull was a reason for closing ,you would no longer have a post button on your screen ......

[billd766]

Well for my tuppence worth the thread has been rerouted into a slagging match and has lost its way.

It would be nice if the posters could remember what the thread is all about and try to keep to it.

If there are no posts following the thread it will die on its own, conversely if it stays alive by keeping to the theme taht would be OK too,

[kerryk]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

Do you have freinds in Singapore who are not Westerners? You need to see this from a broader perspective than that of the spectroanalyze thinking you have.

How can you implement something like responsibility when the word itself doesn't even exist in Thailand?

In layman's terms so you might get what I'm hinting at... You need to think out of the box which most Thai people don't since the reality for them is here and now and infront of them. Responsibility growd out of individualism.

The common Thai atleast in the south doesn't even know how to cross a street without getting hit by a bike or a car. The older generation here doesn't teach the youth sth new but the same old doctrine that was handed to them before by their parents. Anything else wouldn't be considered "Thai".

As for comparing Asia to the West was just a poor excuse to hide your failed attempt in trying to comprehend what I was getting at.

World wide people are fighting to have what we have in the West. Is a Chevy or is it having bbq, hotdogs and enjoying a baseball game?

No, the right to be heard, a decent salary, the right to vote, if one is unemployed atleast would be given food stamps. Aren't all striving for these social aspects?

I hate to be a spoil sport but the thread is about “Thailand really likes old Western guys.” The Thai doctors who operated on me twice in life threatening situations and the Thai nursing staff from the ICU to the wards were excellent and quite responsible enough to save my life twice. So was the guy who ran the X-Ray machine, and the other diagnostic tools used to assist the cardiologist and surgeon.

Thais care about a right to vote? They have never had one, except to sell. Thailand has never been a democracy nor had a vote unless my coup count is off. But that hardly effects how they feel about the old Western guys who never tell them how to vote anyway at least in my experience.

Thai Visa has to be the only place in Thailand that thinks Thailand is a democracy.

[Kananga]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

I'm sure the 5 million Asians who live in Singapore, 90% of which have never even been to the West or speak English as a first language, or follow a 'Western religion' will really think you know what you are talking about.

However I would love for you to share your views on why you think Singapore belongs to the West if we speak of cultural behavior.

Please proceed...

[kerryk]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

I'm sure the 5 million Asians who live in Singapore, 90% of which have never even been to the West or speak English as a first language, or follow a 'Western religion' will really think you know what you are talking about.

However I would love for you to share your views on why you think Singapore belongs to the West if we speak of cultural behavior.

Please proceed...

Thai Visa, Thailand, Old Western Guys in Thailand. Not Singapore. Please proceed.

[Kananga]

Yes you do see a lot of attention to elders in Asia than you do in the West, at least visibly. However thet doesnt always make it better. For example in Singapore there is still the practice of filial piety where parents expect their children to give them a portion of their earnings to pay back the cost of raising them and putting them through college etc. Now, in the past when each generation took a big leap forward in terms of income and the absence of a welfare program this was necessary to keep the older generations alive, however this is not required anymore yet Asian parents still lay this guilt trip on their kids citing Asian values etc. I know of several Singaporeans who resent their parents and hardly see them although they live a 5 minute drive away because their parents insist on them making financial contributions to show respect when the parents already have far more money than their children trying to get by and build a life of their own. On the outside it looks like commendable family focused care but actually its just greed on the part of the parents and contempt and resentment on the part of the children. For me this far outweighs any western example of an inability to care about and to handle the human emotional life.

Plus like you said, they care less about the environment here too which will directly affect their children and children's children so really, who is the most selfish and uncaring when you think about it? The Asians who put guilt trips and unnecessary financial pressure on their kids and leave the world a shithole for their future generations or the Westerners who promote independence and unconditional love and try to ensure the planet is in a better state for their offspring?

And for the record, I don't know you, I dont know what you look like or even your real name so even if I wanted to I would not be capable of launching a 'personal attack' on you. Its just the internet, don't overreact.

In my view Singapore belongs to the west if we speak cultural behavior.

When you speaking about the environment you assume that their children wants everything clean and tidy like in the west, what if not?

Is it less selfish to leave a national debt to the children so even if they work their asses off the rest of their life it is not enough?

Ok, I overracted. But I don't like when it becomes a part of the debate to discredit a person, like happened before in this thread.

I'm sure the 5 million Asians who live in Singapore, 90% of which have never even been to the West or speak English as a first language, or follow a 'Western religion' will really think you know what you are talking about.

However I would love for you to share your views on why you think Singapore belongs to the West if we speak of cultural behavior.

Please proceed...

Thai Visa, Thailand, Old Western Guys in Thailand. Not Singapore. Please proceed.

Thai Visa - Ok website. Good source for some info and discussion. Houses far too many people with too much time and opinion and not enough experience or sense for my liking though. Also has some hilariously defensive, oversensitive twits who get confused far too easily.

Thailand - Interesting place to live. Good cost of living. People are interesting. People are also very self absorbed and their lack of foresight or respect of safety or each other is bewildering at times, but I let them get on with it as long as my family's safety is not at risk. Notice a general lack of responsibility at all levels which in my mind holds the country back but as I have no financial problems they can do what they want, I can always leave if I want to.

Old Western Guys in Thailand - Fall into several different camps. Decrepit whoremongers who try to kid themselves (and others) that they are not sad losers who have numerous failed relationships. Successful retirees with good properties and a healthy addiction to golf and finally the financially screwed scraping my month by month group. This lot are very bitter about anyone else's success with an emphasis on the financial and although they will say that good hotels, property, holidays etc are wasted on them they are the first to flame up if anyone mentions doing anything out of their meagre financial reach.

Not Singapore - Thank God for that. 8 years was enough of that place.

Please proceed - I just did.

[TommoPhysicist]

Old Western Guys in Thailand - Fall into several different camps. Decrepit whoremongers who try to kid themselves (and others) that they are not sad losers who have numerous failed relationships. Successful retirees with good properties and a healthy addiction to golf and finally the financially screwed scraping my month by month group. This lot are very bitter about anyone else's success with an emphasis on the financial and although they will say that good hotels, property, holidays etc are wasted on them they are the first to flame up if anyone mentions doing anything out of their meagre financial reach.

The only men who don't have failed relationships, are those who die young (western divorce rate at 50% and climbing).

The only older men who don't have numerous failed relationships, are those who didn't keep sufficient money after the first failure.

Lots of people on this forum talk about bitterness, IMHO men are rarely bitter, that seems to be the exclusive domain of women who have had failed relationships, usually the rest of their life revolves around their first relationship failure, and outright hatred towards that original partner. Having the occasional winge about your 'former' is not usually an indication of bitterness, most of the guys I know are entirely happy with their new and younger partners.

Edited April 19, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Kananga]

Old Western Guys in Thailand - Fall into several different camps. Decrepit whoremongers who try to kid themselves (and others) that they are not sad losers who have numerous failed relationships. Successful retirees with good properties and a healthy addiction to golf and finally the financially screwed scraping my month by month group. This lot are very bitter about anyone else's success with an emphasis on the financial and although they will say that good hotels, property, holidays etc are wasted on them they are the first to flame up if anyone mentions doing anything out of their meagre financial reach.

The only men who don't have failed relationships, are those who die young (western divorce rate at 50% and climbing).

The only older men who don't have numerous failed relationships, are those who didn't keep sufficient money after the first failure.

Lots of people on this forum talk about bitterness, IMHO men are rarely bitter, that seems to be the exclusive domain of women who have had failed relationships, usually their entire life revolves around their first relationship failure, and outright hatred towards that partner. Having the occasional winge about your 'former' is not usually an indication of bitterness, most of the guys I know are entirely happy with their new and younger partners.

Most of the male bitterness I am referring to comes from a lack of money. You wont believe the grief I got from one individual on here when I said I was looking for a property in Bangkok around 70k a month. He was venomous and quite mad. Telling me how dare I show my face in public when a thai roadsweeper makes the same amount in a year. He also thinks that anyone in a management position is evil. He is quite mad. He also has to get by on 7k a month. Coincidence?

[mackes]

On the subject...

In the village I live (appx 500 p) as the only farang the people always try to make me feel welcome. In the family, among the neighbours, in the shops, at the market and in the hospital (local, and with really good quality).

I participate in everything from weddings and funurals to school parties and temple holidays.

I never felt a bad wibe or seen an unkind glance. On the contrary, there are always many smiles and appriciating eyes and people approach to ask simple questions and express appriciating for me try to speak Thai.

This is my reality today and I'm pleased with it. Regardless of how it is elsewhere and why. This also makes a contradiction to many TV posters complaints about Thai people.

[TommoPhysicist]

Most of the male bitterness I am referring to comes from a lack of money. You wont believe the grief I got from one individual on here when I said I was looking for a property in Bangkok around 70k a month. He was venomous and quite mad. Telling me how dare I show my face in public when a thai roadsweeper makes the same amount in a year. He also thinks that anyone in a management position is evil. He is quite mad. He also has to get by on 7k a month. Coincidence?

I get by on 10k a month, good luck on your 70m apartment, I wouldn't swap my wifes farm for it.

But maybe you are right, bitterness could be caused by a people considering themselves a failure.

I'm with you Mackes!

Edited April 19, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Kananga]

Most of the male bitterness I am referring to comes from a lack of money. You wont believe the grief I got from one individual on here when I said I was looking for a property in Bangkok around 70k a month. He was venomous and quite mad. Telling me how dare I show my face in public when a thai roadsweeper makes the same amount in a year. He also thinks that anyone in a management position is evil. He is quite mad. He also has to get by on 7k a month. Coincidence?

I get by on 10k a month, good luck on your 70m apartment, I wouldn't swap my wifes farm for it.

But maybe you are right, bitterness could be caused by a people considering themselves a failure.

I'm with you Mackes!

If you are happy with your farm then why should you? There are people who spend 500,000 a month rent on properties in Bangkok. Its all relative to your situation. As long as you are happy with how you conduct yourself and try to be the best version of yourself then there is no reason to be jealous of others and consumed by bitterness.

[maxme]

On the subject...

In the village I live (appx 500 p) as the only farang the people always try to make me feel welcome. In the family, among the neighbours, in the shops, at the market and in the hospital (local, and with really good quality).

I participate in everything from weddings and funurals to school parties and temple holidays.

I never felt a bad wibe or seen an unkind glance. On the contrary, there are always many smiles and appriciating eyes and people approach to ask simple questions and express appriciating for me try to speak Thai.

This is my reality today and I'm pleased with it. Regardless of how it is elsewhere and why. This also makes a contradiction to many TV posters complaints about Thai people.

How long have you been living Thailand and do you have a spouse here?

Thera are alot that needs to be factored in order for it to be called experience.

I would like to do a "Mentalist" thing if you don't mind. How about all the elders and the youth tell where you live, just for the fun if it. Then we probably can get a broader picture of it.

[kerryk]

Old Western Guys in Thailand - Fall into several different camps. Decrepit whoremongers who try to kid themselves (and others) that they are not sad losers who have numerous failed relationships. Successful retirees with good properties and a healthy addiction to golf and finally the financially screwed scraping my month by month group. This lot are very bitter about anyone else's success with an emphasis on the financial and although they will say that good hotels, property, holidays etc are wasted on them they are the first to flame up if anyone mentions doing anything out of their meagre financial reach.

The only men who don't have failed relationships, are those who die young (western divorce rate at 50% and climbing).

The only older men who don't have numerous failed relationships, are those who didn't keep sufficient money after the first failure.

Lots of people on this forum talk about bitterness, IMHO men are rarely bitter, that seems to be the exclusive domain of women who have had failed relationships, usually their entire life revolves around their first relationship failure, and outright hatred towards that partner. Having the occasional winge about your 'former' is not usually an indication of bitterness, most of the guys I know are entirely happy with their new and younger partners.

Most of the male bitterness I am referring to comes from a lack of money. You wont believe the grief I got from one individual on here when I said I was looking for a property in Bangkok around 70k a month. He was venomous and quite mad. Telling me how dare I show my face in public when a thai roadsweeper makes the same amount in a year. He also thinks that anyone in a management position is evil. He is quite mad. He also has to get by on 7k a month. Coincidence?

Was this when you posted your housing budget was 120,000 and called one of the posters, “ an angry little man”, and said, “Go and bug someone else with your pointless bitter bullshit.”

[maxme]

Kerry are we falling back into old habits?

Edited April 19, 2012 by maxme

[Kananga]

Is kerry up to his off topic flaming again? 4th bottle of warm leo must be kicking in...

And to answer kerry's off topic flame, yes I would imagine so. That was my initial budget before the powers that be cut my housing allowance, and if I remember correctly it did raise a few vile comments from the have nots. Are you recounting this from memory, or have you been sniffing around posts I made two years ago?

Edited April 19, 2012 by Kananga

[kerryk]

Is kerry up to his off topic flaming again? 4th bottle of warm leo must be kicking in...

And to answer kerry's off topic flame, yes I would imagine so. That was my initial budget before the powers that be cut my housing allowance, and if I remember correctly it did raise a few vile comments from the have nots. Are you recounting this from memory, or have you been sniffing around posts I made two years ago?

Kananga said, "Most of the male bitterness I am referring to comes from a lack of money. You wont believe the grief I got from one individual on here when I said I was looking for a property in Bangkok around 70k a month. He was venomous and quite mad. Telling me how dare I show my face in public when a thai roadsweeper makes the same amount in a year. He also thinks that anyone in a management position is evil. He is quite mad. He also has to get by on 7k a month. Coincidence?"

That statement might be on topic in an offensive kind of way and shows how a narrow minded person might draw a general conclusions from one isolated encounter with a nameless person on the internet.

It does seem rather odd to me but I did want to point out that Kananga's posting style (see the following), and called one of the posters, “ an angry little man”, and said, “Go and bug someone else with your pointless bitter bullshit.” is rather caustic and perhaps the reason he gets such negative responses.

Glad to see that you and Max are acting as a team though. Male bonding is a good thing for young guys. Gets you over those rough spots when you are banging your head against the wall in frustration that old guys really do control your world. Especially old guys in Thailand who don’t have your education, birth advantage and so on.

I know you expected to come here and wave some flash cash around and have everyone respect you. Didn’t work did it. Too bad old guys get respect purely by age must really bother you. I guess that should be obvious by reading your posts.