Novice Needs Help In House-Training Puppy

[Khon Baan Nok]

Greetings, I'm a long-time denizen of ThaiVisa but new to this forum.

I'm also new to house-training a puppy, and believe that I'm failing and I don't know why. I'd appreciate any good advice.

The basics:

I have a beautiful, smart puppy who is now eleven weeks old. He is half Chihuahua, one quarter Pom, and one quarter Shih Tzu. He was born here on 16 January 2012 and has been at my house here in Bangkok since then, except for a couple of forays out of town.

He has been accustomed to a crate since birth and is very comfortable there. His mother began weaning him at around 6 weeks of age and I began trying to house-train him at the same time. He has NEVER soiled his crate, so it is effective as a controlled environment. His mother is still here with him though he has long since forgotten about nursing.

I am recently retired and training this puppy is my principal mission in life right now, so I have the time to do it right. I've kept detailed records of the timings of his eating and pee/poo habits.

Here's what I think I'm doing right:

1. I have locked in his regular feeding times to be between 0600-0700, 1300-1400, and 1900-2000. He gets a consistent diet that is part dry food and part Cesar-brand tinned food.

2. I now know the times he is most likely to need to pee/poo, and I take him outside - the success rate of this is quite high by now. I use simple, consistent verbal commands for everything I expect him to do. In effect there are only three: NO, PeePee, and Poo.

3. I keep him crated if I'm not able to keep a close eye on him when I'm in the house - that said, he also has free run of the house AFTER he has done pee/poo outside.

4. I do not punish him for failures. I reward him verbally and with cuddling every time he succeeds outside. I do SHOW him the pee/poo inside and convey an emphatic "NO", but that's as far as I've gone with the negative reinforcement.

5. I use non-odor cleaners to attend to any messes, and those seem to be working as the accidents occur at different places.

In that context, as long as I'm mindful of the timings and watchful when he is free in the house, we can achieve a pretty high success rate. I cannot, however, get him to alert me when he needs to go out, so if I am not watching he will surely pee or poo in the house. In other words, I feel like most of the success is due either to my watching the timing or keeping him in the crate. I do not know what to expect of a puppy this young (not yet three months), but having been at this now for almost 6 weeks, I kind of thought it would be better than this.

Here's what I'm not sure if I'm doing right or not:

1. Because my house is very small and I have an outdoor garden, I have never given him a place to pee/poo in the house, i.e., by using a newspaper corner. All pee/poo operations are expected to be done outside. Is that a mistake? MUST you rely on the newspaper process?

2. I have not used food as a reward - I've used cuddling and talk to reward him. The only reason for that is that I've not yet found any non-perishable "treat" that I can use to reward him. Neither he nor his mother will look twice at any of the locally available pet treats. I've thrown every brand available into the garbage so don't have anything like this to use as an incentive. Is it a mistake to try to rely exclusively on love as positive reinforcement?

3. I do not use negative reinforcement. I am afraid that by doing that I could wind up teaching him the wrong things, but in the interim I'm not having much success at teaching him the right things. Is it necessary to use negative reinforcement/punishment? What kind?

That's it for now. He is young, and I may be looking for more than he can give. I'd appreciate being second-guessed.

Thanks in advance.

S.

[isanbirder]

I've just been through the same situation; my puppy, also a toy dog, though I'd hesitate to give him a brand name, is now over 5 months old and fully house-trained.

What you're doing is right; take him out into the garden a few minutes after each meal.... but, if possible, leave the door open at other times so that he can go out by himself. The newspaper trick is helpful in a flat, but is not necessary if the puppy can get outdoors when he wants to. If he has an accident, take him straight outside so that he can connect going out with peeing.

I assume you don't have another dog, or he would follow its example. I have two, including the puppy's mother.

To be frank, he trained himself. The accidents grew fewer and fewer, and have now stopped completely (this happened at about three months).

He and my other dogs have always had access to all rooms in the house, and have always had a door open so that they can go out (except at night, of course).

[Khon Baan Nok]

I've just been through the same situation; my puppy, also a toy dog, though I'd hesitate to give him a brand name, is now over 5 months old and fully house-trained.

What you're doing is right; take him out into the garden a few minutes after each meal.... but, if possible, leave the door open at other times so that he can go out by himself. The newspaper trick is helpful in a flat, but is not necessary if the puppy can get outdoors when he wants to. If he has an accident, take him straight outside so that he can connect going out with peeing.

I assume you don't have another dog, or he would follow its example. I have two, including the puppy's mother.

To be frank, he trained himself. The accidents grew fewer and fewer, and have now stopped completely (this happened at about three months).

He and my other dogs have always had access to all rooms in the house, and have always had a door open so that they can go out (except at night, of course).

Thank you, Birder. Some additional points:

1. He is here with his mother, who is house-trained. That does not necessarily seem to be helping.

2. A major difference between what you describe and my situation is that I'm not able to leave the doors open for him. This means that in effect he has to learn two things: One, not to pee/poo in the house, and two, to alert me to the need to get out where he CAN do that. He is fully able to alert me when he needs/wants to get out of the crate, and he is fully able to alert me when he wants to come IN on the few occasions when I allow him and his mother free rein in the garden. I wonder if this is screwing the whole thing up?

Tks for your interest and help,

S.

[bob4you]

I have found that often it is the people that need training rather than the dog. I have a 5 year old Yorkie who has never been around other dogs, never really had any training except praise, but she has trained me. Dogs sleep or lay around 15 hours a day, if she is awake and wants to pay attention to me it means I need to take her out. I live in the top floor of 3 story townhouse but have never failed to take her out when she licks my hand or my face when laying in bed with me, I know what she is trying to tell me.

Even though I am on the 3rd floor I probably take her out 8 times a day, not when she eats as she has food 24/7 but when she wants to go out. I can ask her "do you want to go out?" and she will get excited and run to the bedroom door, I immediately listen to her. She is good for up to 12 hours if I am not at home and in emergencies like that she will use the stall of the shower to do her business, no I never taught her that, she taught herself.

[isanbirder]

The puppy is not yet three months' old... too soon to worry! He'll get the message soon.

[Khon Baan Nok]

The puppy is not yet three months' old... too soon to worry! He'll get the message soon.

I hope so. It sounds like yours was all set to go by this age, but I'm aware of others that only begin their training at this age. I guess I'll just persevere, but I hope that it is reasonable to expect him to alert me when he needs to go out.

Tks, Bob4You, for your comment. Your situation is similar to mine, though maybe you've got a smarter dog! My little twirp seems to be VERY smart, but he's not showing it to me in this regard.

S.

[wayned]

It is important to understand your puppy. Dogs want to please; the trick is to make them understand what it is that you want from them.

They do not think the way humans do. When you are unhappy with your dog, it assumes that whatever it is doing at the exact moment you show your disapproval - is the thing that is upsetting you. For example:

If your puppy relieves himself on the floor and you show your disapproval five minutes after he has committed the act, the puppy will think that the mess on the floor is bad. He will not relate to the fact that it was the act of relieving himself on the floor that you disapprove of.

He knows the "mess" will upset you but does not understand that he should stop "making" the mess. To your dog, "the mess" and "the act" are unrelated. The trick is to catch your dog in the act and make him understand. Don't hit him, the tone of your voice is enough to make the dog see you are unhappy. A firm NO! you are not allowed to go in the house. NO! NO! is all that is needed. Immediately take your dog outside to the appropriate place. Wait for the dog to go again and when he does, praise him. Important: Always praise your dog after he eliminates in the appropriate place.

You have to recognize the signals that the dog will give you showing that they have to go! After all, they aren't going to send you a text message. Some will bark, some will go to the door and sit, some will walk in circles, etc. I've raised dogs all of my life and currently have 17, 9 of which are 1 month old. 10 of them have free run of the house and the only mess in the morning is from the 1 month old puppies but they are already learning. When their mom needs to go she barks at the front door and when I let her out they go with her. You should take him out immedistely after every meal as the food in his stomach puts pressure on his bladder. He needs to go out 5 - 6 times a days.

Good luch!

[doggie888888]

Crate trained my puppy. I think the formula (please check as it was 3 years ago when I did this) is they can "hold on" for a period which is one hour for each month plus one hour, so a 3 month old can hold for 4 hours, 5 mth old can hold for 6 hours etc.

Other than above, I use the Cesar Millan method and I now have a most wonderful pet. Obedient, calm and well trained, even if I do say so myself.

I think the "positive reinforcement" part of your OP may work but generally Cesar says discipline, consistency then affection, in that order.

Good luck!

[bina]

you are doing perfectly. some toy breerds take much much longer; also, you should also reward him but not overdo it (no need for cuddling and poopsymoopsy, its enough that u give a pat on the back or under the chin. all the rest is too much free love). as for treats, if they dont like the bought stuff, use teeny weeny polka dot binkini sized bits of hot dog or chicken or whateer turns them on... and only once in a while...

lastly, u have to train him to get your attention, which is why u do need those teeny weeny bits of something tasty accessible to your hand. when the pup comes to u and wags his tale, reward with a pat on the head, a treat or a question: wanna play?! (in a stupid asky asky voice to emphasize the idea), while holding up a ball or toy or whatever... or ask (wanna go out? voice same same) and get the leash or open the door. the point is, u have to reward the dog for coming to u and then u have to reward hiim for making needs know.

difficult to explain however: lilee my lhasa apso, sufferred from a doggy version of environmental autism. that is, whe was raised in a white room, with one other pup, away from mom except for nursing, and w/o stimulation of any sort. a misguided way the breeder was afraid the pups would get parvo ec. - wso she never got stimulation nor did she get responses to whining, tail wagging, butt in the air bows, or any other puppy behavior. we literally had to teach her to bark, woof, wag tail, paw at the door or at us, in other words, every single time she attempted any form of communication with us, she got a prize: a pat (she hated handling also, and still prefers only strong handling, not gentle pats)or a treat (she is food oriented), or a response. three years later, she is vocal, asks to go out, lets us know when the food bowl/water bowl is empty, etc.

in other words, u are anticipating your dog's actions which is good but he has learned that u think for him and he doesnt have to ask. now u slowly ahve to have him ask you first to get u to respond. that should be easy since u are around a lot. when u take him out of the crate, ask, 'wanna go out' or 'walkies' or whatever, and when he gets a bit excited, say 'outside' or whatever and go out. eye contact is important and he is small and low on the ground.. foofoo has learned that when he wants our attention, he stamps his paws (a rather funny m anoever) in place until we look at him, we usually ask, 'want out?' and he rushes to the door . lilee used to just stand and stare at us and we had to figure out what she wanted. she's learned to nudge us with her nose, or 'woomf' at us, when wanting out.u can teach dogs to ring a door bell tied to the handle (bell down below), to signal 'out', or whatever...

.

I can ask her "do you want to go out?" and she will get excited and run to the bedroom door, I immediately listen to her. She is good for up to 12 hours if I am not at home and in emergencies like that she will use the stall of the shower to do her business, no I never taught her that, she taught herself.

lilee also taught herself to use the bathroom shower floor as her emergency toilet (or for that matter, all winter long when she refuses to go out. she only now has learned to go through puddles outside as the feel of wet feet would freeze her in place. she's really wierd...)/i assume she learned cause she would go with me when i went to the bathroom and the smell of urine is the smell of urine, so like any normal dog, she will pee where there is a smell of urine.

bina

[Khon Baan Nok]

Please allow me to express my thanks to each and every one of you for the advice and encouragement. Even when you have told me something I think I already know, or am doing, it builds confidence - I am, after all, an admitted novice at this.

Bina, your addressing the issue of the dog having learned that "I am doing the thinking for him" is precisely the issue I've been most concerned about. My ultimate objective is not to have me making 10 to 12 trips a day outside and then congratulating myself that nothing happened inside. Your comments are helpful and are very convergent with what I am doing. I have already trained him and his mother to "speak" to confirm that they are ready to "EAT" (that was the world's easiest concept to teach!). I also have her "speak" when she wants to go out for any reason.

The puppy seems, almost magically (overlooking the 8 weeks that I've been doing this 24 x 7) to have crossed some threshold. He has had full access to the house (no crate) for the last three days and there have been zero in-house pee or poo events. I'm not declaring victory, but it's a bit of "positive reinforcement". Positive reinforcement is not just for dogs!!

Anyway, I continue my very structured and documented process, and I hope that we are beginning to make some progress. This is a wonderful little animal and I hope I can succeed with this. Thanks again, all, for your help and encouragement.

S.

[phl]

This is how i trained mine, i now have 9(i know i am crazy)

About 30 mins after each meal, i would take it out into the grass area or outside and walk until he/she go toilet.

When he/she does go toilet, i make a huge fuss things like "good boy/girl" give treats and a rub.

Any time puppy had an "accident" inside the house, i would get angry "bad boy/girl, no no etc"

In less than few days puppy learned that when she/he goes toilet outside, he/she gets praised, rub and some treat as oppose to going inside.

As it gets older, you can spread the toilet intervals.

Now my gang goes to the park every day 7am, toilet and play time and at 18pm again toilet and play time.

House is clean