History...or Something Like It!

[somkid]

Just wondering, is the Victory Monument the only monument in the world commemorating a victory of Germany, Japan, or allies against French, British, US, etc. ?

I am just curious, and don't mean to imply anything by this question.

Cheers,

Somkid

[evadgib]

If you seppos are so clever...why cant you spell ???   Colour does have a "U" in it, 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Color don't have no stinkin' 'u' in it and neither does 'flavor'!

...old English

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HumoUr has a 'U' in it, according to those of us who's ancestors invented the English Language:)

[evadgib]

Get real Boon Mee, when did the Yanks get anywhere first!  !

The Moon?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not convinced they ever went...

[evadgib]

Basically, it didn't matter who won WW2, Thailand would've, more or less, been on the victorious side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This reminds me of Don King; "I came in with a champion & I left with a champion" each time one of his boxers got 'filled in' & he decided to jump ship.

(Great post BTW)

[Ulysses G.]

If you seppos are so clever...why cant you spell ???   Colour does have a "U" in it, 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Color don't have no stinkin' 'u' in it and neither does 'flavor'!

...old English

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HumoUr has a 'U' in it, according to those of us who's ancestors invented the English Language:)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but everyone knows that they couldn't spell correctly back then, and besides, they are our ancestors too!

[Thai Chi]

kratingdang quoted:

"U also don't know much about Thai history. I don't view WWII as d emberrass moment"

But I am sure you are embarrassed by your spelling

Thailand was a relatively quiet nation during World War 2, in comparisson with what was happening around them in other countries. But still, Thailand bears a unique history during and after the war. Basically, Thailand managed to survive handsomely and took opportunity to make the best out of every situation.

Prior to the war in the Pacific, Thailand and Japan had close relations. In 1939, Thailand invaded French Indochina to gain back territories in Laos and Cambodia, which was taken by the French in 1893-1901. Japan aided Thailand both with supplying weapons and even pilots to bomb French positions in Cambodia. After the war, Japan mediated the conflict and the French conceded some territory back to Thailand.

During this time, as Japanese were fighting Chinese, Thailand knew that the war would come to Thailand, and that Japan would invade. Soon, Japan invaded French Indochina, and Thais were convinced that they were next.

One day after Pearl Harbor, Japan requested that they are allowed to pass through Thailand to attack Malaysia and Burma, but not stay in Thailand. They would respect Thai sovereignity and not occupy. Thailand denied at first (because the prime minister was not available to make the decision). So Japan invaded and Thai forces fought as best as they could for the next day. Afterwards, the prime minister returned and ordered Thai troops to stop fighting, because to fight the Japanese would be hopeless and that Thailand will be crushed very easily. Half the Cabinet were against surrendering to Japan, and prepared a Thai resistance movement called "Seri Thai".

Afterwards, Thailand became the only Japanese ally in Asia. Thai troops supported Japanese invasion of Burma. Some territory Thailand lost to British and French colonists were return to Thai administration. Thailand was the only fully independent nation during Japanese "occupation". The country had full control over economy, army and population. Thai government declared war on United States and England, and Thailand was officially part of the Axis alliance.

However, despite apparent "support" for Japanese, the entire Thai population hated the Japanese troops. The Thai government did what was best for Thailand and Thai people, and tried it's best to help the Japanese as little as possible. The Free Thai Movement (Seri Thai) was organized directly after Japanese invasion, with the help of Thais in the West. America didn't accept Thai declaration of war, since it was illegal (not all signatures in the Cabinet was signed) and against the will of the Thai people, and supported Thai resistance. The Free Thai Movement became the largest resistance movement in World War 2 in terms of membership. Much of it was based on utter pride and nationalism, since Thais are strong and proud of their nation. During the next year of the war, Thai resistance movement worked against Japanese army. Thai agents rescued Allied pilots shot down over Thailand and had close connections with Allied forces.

After the war when Japan surrendered, Thailand faced serious problems from the Allies, since it could be said that Thailand was also the enemy. England was determined to occupy Thailand with Allied troops for example, since it took the declaration of war seriously. But political and skillful diplomacy (same way as how Thailand remained independent from Western colonists) by the Free Thai Movement in saying that Thailand was on the Allied side, assured Thailand that it was free from trouble.

Basically, it didn't matter who won WW2, Thailand would've, more or less, been on the victorious side.

Two points to consider kratingdang.

1. If you are going to quote someone elses writings, please give them the credit due. Even on this great medium of the WWW, plagiarism is still a crime

2. And dont beleive everything you read on the aforementioned WWW.

[thaivisitor]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you are from the US which gets involved in all the "historical wars",

why do you find it so surprising if someone is unaware of such things?

You mean to say EVERYONE in your country is aware of all the past events or as you put it "history"?

[gburns57au]

kratingdang quoted:

"U also don't know much about Thai history. I don't view WWII as d emberrass moment"

But I am sure you are embarrassed by your spelling

Two points to consider kratingdang.

1. If you are going to quote someone elses writings, please give them the credit due. Even on this great medium of the WWW, plagiarism is still a crime

2. And dont beleive everything you read on the aforementioned WWW.  

Obviously this was an extract from somewhere as Kratingdaengs first language is not english....so I guess that he can be excused some spelling mistakes.....

However if you critcise someone...make sure that you dont fall at the same hurdle......I Believe that the rule is "I before E except after C" with a few exceptions.

BTW...the extract is fairly accurate.

Edited January 2, 2006 by gburns57au

[Plus+]

Can we get back to the topic?

I was thinking about this "dumb" thing - it's of course nice to have the population full of Einsteins but there are ways to manage the country quite well with what it has. Thanks to well organised, cohesive society it doesn't really matter if half the population doesn't know history - it matters that those who need to know, know it very well and the rest doesn't argue and accept their superior judgement and the whole country moves on. Similarly historians don't mess with farmers, farmers don't mess with politics, politics don't mess with religion and so on.

This separation of jobs/knowledge is evident in the US as well. That's why average American can be percieved as a dumb idiot with no knowledge of the outside world BUT he/she is not the one who formulates US foreign policy, that is left to some very clever people (current administration does not count). That is also why there are 17 US universities in the top 20, but the average score of American students are just average. Last I read they were 27th in mathematics. There's a huge gap in knowledge between those 17 top unis and the rest of the country, just like there's a huge gap in wealth. These gaps in "socialist" Europe are not so big. I guess it's just the natural phenomena resulting form "free market economy".

Re. swastikas - I'm very well aware that the symbol itself is very ancient indeed but these particular swastikas - black cross in a white cirlce on the red background are unmistakenly nazist. Thais or Burmese who put them on are like Cartman from South Park who put on Hitler's costume for Halloween party. He was taken to the head master's office and shown anti-nazi video - and he thought that legions of those marching SS troops looked VERY cool. I had the same problem with my students - I wanted to quickly convey the nature of nazism and selected a few pics from the Internet - the one where a nazi officer was shooting a man in the head point blank on the edge of a grave elicited quite a few opposite reactions.

[thaibebop]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm , that was the break-up of the Beatles, right ?

To get serious, the invasion by the Japanese, and the death of a couple of hundred thousand Asians (as well as the farang prisoners-of-war) does seem to come as NEWS to many Thais. Wonder why their schoold don't teach this ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand at the time was allied with the Japanese, now I don't know this for sure buut sinec they were allied and the government at the time was military dictatorship Thais view this time as an embarrassment and there for don't want to teach it to their kids. I have no proof of this is just a suggestion that I have read else where, so truth or not I do not know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^

U also don't know much about Thai history. I don't view WWII as d emberrass moment

Okay, no need to be an ass! Read the highlights. Also, you have just what what said only a longer verison. Thailand was allied with Japanese, I said that, so what are you trying to prove to me? Almost everthing you posted I know. I have read several books an Thai history and want to study it further and as I am working on a history masters I would like to teach here in the states. My father-in-law (Thai) had told me that Thais don't like to be reminded of the Dictatorship, because they feel it shouldn't have happened, they were suppose to be free, which is why he told me it is so important that Thais today vote and be apart of the government. I said I wasn't sure if Thais viewed their alliance with Japan as a sore point, because it was my wife who said that in school this was never covered or was covered so little that she didn't remember it, so maybe, this she said to me, the Thai government doesn't want to the kids to think that it valued it's relations with Japan because they turned out to be the losers in the war and it would be better for relations with western nations to not remind them of this alliance, for the good of Thailand, but this is also a guess. So, don't peach to me boyo, I said I wasn't sure.

Thailand was a relatively quiet nation during World War 2, in comparisson with what was happening around them in other countries. But still, Thailand bears a unique history during and after the war. Basically, Thailand managed to survive handsomely and took opportunity to make the best out of every situation.

Prior to the war in the Pacific, Thailand and Japan had close relations. In 1939, Thailand invaded French Indochina to gain back territories in Laos and Cambodia, which was taken by the French in 1893-1901. Japan aided Thailand both with supplying weapons and even pilots to bomb French positions in Cambodia. After the war, Japan mediated the conflict and the French conceded some territory back to Thailand.

During this time, as Japanese were fighting Chinese, Thailand knew that the war would come to Thailand, and that Japan would invade. Soon, Japan invaded French Indochina, and Thais were convinced that they were next.

One day after Pearl Harbor, Japan requested that they are allowed to pass through Thailand to attack Malaysia and Burma, but not stay in Thailand. They would respect Thai sovereignity and not occupy. Thailand denied at first (because the prime minister was not available to make the decision). So Japan invaded and Thai forces fought as best as they could for the next day. Afterwards, the prime minister returned and ordered Thai troops to stop fighting, because to fight the Japanese would be hopeless and that Thailand will be crushed very easily. Half the Cabinet were against surrendering to Japan, and prepared a Thai resistance movement called "Seri Thai".

Afterwards, Thailand became the only Japanese ally in Asia. Thai troops supported Japanese invasion of Burma. Some territory Thailand lost to British and French colonists were return to Thai administration. Thailand was the only fully independent nation during Japanese "occupation". The country had full control over economy, army and population. Thai government declared war on United States and England, and Thailand was officially part of the Axis alliance.

However, despite apparent "support" for Japanese, the entire Thai population hated the Japanese troops. The Thai government did what was best for Thailand and Thai people, and tried it's best to help the Japanese as little as possible. The Free Thai Movement (Seri Thai) was organized directly after Japanese invasion, with the help of Thais in the West. America didn't accept Thai declaration of war, since it was illegal (not all signatures in the Cabinet was signed) and against the will of the Thai people, and supported Thai resistance. The Free Thai Movement became the largest resistance movement in World War 2 in terms of membership. Much of it was based on utter pride and nationalism, since Thais are strong and proud of their nation. During the next year of the war, Thai resistance movement worked against Japanese army. Thai agents rescued Allied pilots shot down over Thailand and had close connections with Allied forces.

After the war when Japan surrendered, Thailand faced serious problems from the Allies, since it could be said that Thailand was also the enemy. England was determined to occupy Thailand with Allied troops for example, since it took the declaration of war seriously. But political and skillful diplomacy (same way as how Thailand remained independent from Western colonists) by the Free Thai Movement in saying that Thailand was on the Allied side, assured Thailand that it was free from trouble.

Basically, it didn't matter who won WW2, Thailand would've, more or less, been on the victorious side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[jonik]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wich is ?

[Boon Mee]

If you seppos are so clever...why cant you spell ???   Colour does have a "U" in it, 

Color don't have no stinkin' 'u' in it and neither does 'flavor'!

...old English

HumoUr has a 'U' in it, according to those of us who's ancestors invented the English Language:)

Sorry, but everyone knows that they couldn't spell correctly back then, and besides, they are our ancestors too!

That's right, UlyssesG. I suppose 'they' want us to go back to the days of Chaucer.

How about those spellings?

[bannork]

8 pages of bickering and still none of you have been able to answer the simple question posed pages back, namely, what does TG stand for in relation to the state airline?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bite. TG = "Thai Garuda?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would have been my choice too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The G means nothing, it's just a code letter assigned to Thai Airways.

Qantas were lucky to get QF as they were one of the 1st commercial carriers.

Same goes for BA

Hence they can call their code Qantas Flight XXX.

(what a Quote mess)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right on Udon, some claim TG used to mean tomorrow goes or even today goes, but you're right it's just a code letter;by the way does your better half come from Udon Thani, the province with the most beautiful women in thailand?

Another poser,why is the roundabout near Hualampong railway station called the July 29 roundabout, what outstanding event happened that day one year?

[stumonster]

If the Yanks got there first, we'd be driving on the 'right' side of the road and your Thai dictonary would not be using 'Old English'!

Get real Boon Mee, when did the Yanks get anywhere first!  !

The Moon?

which is why they drive on the right hand side and spell colour without the 'u' there....

[K9FIN]

Most of my friends (from US) served in the Bosnia and Kosovo

peacekeeping troops, was calling me an liar because

i said that i come from Finland. They just told me that

there is not a such country in the Europe (or anywhere in the

world) Also when i told about Estonia.. Yeps

[Ulysses G.]

Most of my friends (from US) served in the Bosnia and Kosovo

peacekeeping troops, was calling me an liar because

i said that i come from Finland. They just told me that

there is not a such country in the Europe (or anywhere in the

world) Also when i told about Estonia.. Yeps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your American friends were pulling your leg, we all know Finland, now Estonia (or Latvia for that matter) that might be a different story...

[jbowman1993]

Most of my friends (from US) served in the Bosnia and Kosovo

peacekeeping troops, was calling me an liar because

i said that i come from Finland. They just told me that

there is not a such country in the Europe (or anywhere in the

world) Also when i told about Estonia.. Yeps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your American friends were pulling your leg, we all know Finland, now Estonia (or Latvia for that matter) that might be a different story...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There are a lot of geography-challanged Americans running around, especially in the military.

[Patsycat]

What percentage of graduates from the 17 unis in the States were American and what percentage were foreigners?

[kratingdang]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also don't know that much about the European and American history ,I think d history class in Thai school when I studied not explain much about european and American history. More on Thai and other Asian countries.I also want to learn about Napoleon.

Any way at least that girl should know Vietnam lose.

I think this is d personal problem ,but some American or Chinese are also poor in geography and history. I have heard from some one who also think that Asian is d country "Asian country"

Edited January 4, 2006 by kratingdang

[Boon Mee]

Most of my friends (from US) served in the Bosnia and Kosovo

peacekeeping troops, was calling me an liar because

i said that i come from Finland. They just told me that

there is not a such country in the Europe (or anywhere in the

world) Also when i told about Estonia.. Yeps

Your American friends were pulling your leg, we all know Finland, now Estonia (or Latvia for that matter) that might be a different story...

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There are a lot of geography-challanged Americans running around, especially in the military.

So long as they can find Wal Mart, what's the problem?

[Kupal]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.

[gburns57au]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.  

Because Americans are perceived as arrogant, over patriotic, and loud mouthed...

something you may be familiar with.

Live there ???....I wouldnt dream of laying a brown brick there....

[kratingdang]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm , that was the break-up of the Beatles, right ?

To get serious, the invasion by the Japanese, and the death of a couple of hundred thousand Asians (as well as the farang prisoners-of-war) does seem to come as NEWS to many Thais. Wonder why their schoold don't teach this ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand at the time was allied with the Japanese, now I don't know this for sure buut sinec they were allied and the government at the time was military dictatorship Thais view this time as an embarrassment and there for don't want to teach it to their kids. I have no proof of this is just a suggestion that I have read else where, so truth or not I do not know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^

U also don't know much about Thai history. I don't view WWII as d emberrass moment

Okay, no need to be an ass! Read the highlights. Also, you have just what what said only a longer verison. Thailand was allied with Japanese, I said that, so what are you trying to prove to me? Almost everthing you posted I know. I have read several books an Thai history and want to study it further and as I am working on a history masters I would like to teach here in the states. My father-in-law (Thai) had told me that Thais don't like to be reminded of the Dictatorship, because they feel it shouldn't have happened, they were suppose to be free, which is why he told me it is so important that Thais today vote and be apart of the government. I said I wasn't sure if Thais viewed their alliance with Japan as a sore point, because it was my wife who said that in school this was never covered or was covered so little that she didn't remember it, so maybe, this she said to me, the Thai government doesn't want to the kids to think that it valued it's relations with Japan because they turned out to be the losers in the war and it would be better for relations with western nations to not remind them of this alliance, for the good of Thailand, but this is also a guess. So, don't peach to me boyo, I said I wasn't sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only things I like to talk about WWII is about the colonizer who are under estimate Thailand got a hard ass kick from Asia. then America lost in Vietnam war. These bastard need to get the lesson that the smaller guys can kick their ass badly. And I love to talk about WWII because of this

Bye bye yank and frog eater

And for those who say my grammar is crap and coppy from other source .....i just found article and decide to post here ,so what is your better idea? or source

[Boon Mee]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.  

I like this guy!

Glad to have you aboard, Kupal!

[Ulysses G.]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because Americans are perceived as arrogant, over patriotic, and loud mouthed...

something you may be familiar with.

Live there ???....I wouldnt dream of laying a brown brick there....

When Indonesia invades, don't call us.

[billd766]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because Americans are perceived as arrogant, over patriotic, and loud mouthed...

something you may be familiar with.

Live there ???....I wouldnt dream of laying a brown brick there....

When Indonesia invades, don't call us.

Nah we wouldn't call you.

We would just get a troop or two of Girl Scouts who would do the job quicker, cheaper and easier and wouldn't be looking at stealing things on the side.

[robitusson]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.

Thailands worth a look. It's between China and Australia.

[sriracha john]

geez.... Halliburton and Cheney would be pissed off if they got replaced by the Girl Scouts.

[gburns57au]

What's the fuss all about....... Is there a country worth knowing about outside the USA?

Anyway you all look-up at the US and dream of living there so com'on, why should Americans start learning about places indigeneous people just want to leave behind.  

Because Americans are perceived as arrogant, over patriotic, and loud mouthed...

something you may be familiar with.

Live there ???....I wouldnt dream of laying a brown brick there....

When Indonesia invades, don't call us.

When I was in the army we did several military exercises with the US forces....I wouldnt invite them to be security at a family Bar B Q.......

[Ulysses G.]

Yet another SAS, trained-killer I take it?