Dodgy Company

[Sion]

I was recruited to work for a company here in Thailand from the UK. They company is run by a couple of English guys one has a Thai girlfriend. It is a limited company. They told me I could come and work on a tourist visa and then once here they would sort out a work permit. I now realise I have been working illegally and they have said after two months of a twelve month contract that they can not afford to pay me. I have a clause in the contract that states if this happens then I get paid the full amount of the contract. They have said the contract is not valid and I do not want to go down the legal route.

My question is what would happen to them if the authorities found out they were hiring people illegally as they have recruited others also advising them to come here on tourist visas. Maybe this fact might prompt them into paying me the sum they owe me. Any help is much appreciated. It is a real shame as I was really enjoy life here in Thailand but now look like I am going back to the UK.

[theblether]

As a rule of thumb just write it off to experience. I was involved in a similar situation back in the 80's in the Canary Islands, broken promises etc however in my case I, being young and stupid at the time as I was, told the guys involved that if they didn't square up what they owed me I would hospitalise them. They paid up, I flew home, then wondered later what would have happened if it had turned violent.

You really are going down a rocky path many miles from home by getting involved with informing authorities etc. Write it off, try to get another legal job, or go home and start again. Sorry.

[kurnell]

As far as I understand if you have a contract, then you can go to the labour court, work permit or not.

[YipYipYa123]

I disagree, to report this guys you would first have to report you have worked illegally for 2 months without a permit, you may get in more shit than them including fined and deported

I would call it a loss and move on

[trainman34014]

I disagree, to report this guys you would first have to report you have worked illegally for 2 months without a permit, you may get in more shit than them including fined and deported

I would call it a loss and move on

Agreed; Chances are you will end up in deep doo doo and they will just pay off some corrupt <deleted> and carry on doing the same.

[Sion]

I would not do it while I am still in Thailand as I realise I would get in trouble as well. I would wait till I leave the country then get someone here to inform the authorities. I was led to believe it is the responsibility of the employer and not the employee to organise the work permit.

[Tonto21]

Hi ‘Sion’ Mate, did you not smell a rat when ………….. “They have said after two months of a twelve month contract that they cannot afford to pay me. I have a clause in the contract that states if this happens then I get paid the full amount of the contract.” How were they going to pay the full amount, contract period……If they couldn’t pay monthly?

As for trying to put pressure regarding no work permit…..As already stated, walk away, dripping to the BIB will just cost you more, the best you could hope for is your former employers shearing your cell. Great if your willing to cut your own nose off to spite your face.

Let it go mate, mark it up to experience.

[samsiam]

What kind of work/company was it doing ??

Send an email with all relevant info to Andrew Drummond.

[wana]

exactly -if they have thai wives and maybe even thai lawyers or police onside you could find yourself being the only one i the hot water

its possible that they have work permits for themselves and the only one working illegally was YOU !

you could find yourself in a police cell ,with the only way out being a few visits to the atm to withdraw your daily limit or even worse ......dragged through the court system !

it wouldnt be the first time that thais and farangs worked together to con people out of money

[chickenslegs]

Keep hold of any contracts, or other original documents.

Go and talk to a lawyer (someone who can speak English with you). There's even an online lawyer service advertised on Thaivisa who you could send an email to. (Google isaanlawyers or Siam legal).

Give them the full information, including exactly how you were recruited in the UK.

My guess is that you will be advised not to incriminate yourself by admitting to coming here to work with a tourist visa - but at least you will be getting a professional opinion without putting yourself in danger of prosecution.

Good luck.

[loong]

You have a topic running already

So why start this one?

[Sion]

I wanted to get specific advice with regards to my situation. My initial post gave me a good insight so I followed it up with a more specific question about my employers situation. Why has it offended you. I guess I could have asked the question on the other thread but I never really use forums so I am a bit of a beginner.

[bendix]

Jeez, let it go, will you?

It's a learning experience.

[robblok]

Jeez, let it go, will you?

It's a learning experience.

Bedix your one bi polar guy. In the credit card debt thread you take a stance the people who loan and not pay back are bad. (and i agree) But here you look at it totally different, the guy is cheated out of money on an even more personal way. I would not let something like that go easy. I would certainly get annoyed and try to get even.

[Soutpeel]

I would not do it while I am still in Thailand as I realise I would get in trouble as well. I would wait till I leave the country then get someone here to inform the authorities. I was led to believe it is the responsibility of the employer and not the employee to organise the work permit.

It is also the responsibility of the employee to ensure they have a work permit. Under terms of the law, a Thai company will only be fined around THB 60,000, but the penalties for the employee who knows they are working without the WP can be more serious.

With that being said, your first recourse as regards is to talk to the department of labour, the labour office closest to your place of employment and raise a complaint against the company, if you have a case, the DOL will undertake this on for you, will cost you nothing (you dont need a lawyer)

Further not having a WP is not a "major" issue in the eyes of the DOL, yes you have broken the law, but they are not going to get you arrested, jailed or deported, seeing as the company kept promising to get you a WP, therefore you were working in "good faith"

There was case report in TV (cant find the link) a few years ago, where one of the posters was working without a WP, and the person concerned sucessfully sued the company (think is was a hotel) concerned and won via the DOL.

The DOL is one of the better goverment Dept's in Thailand and they will tell you very quickly if you have case, and if you do, they will take it on, they are very helpful...know this from personal experience

Even though you do not have a WP, you are still covered under Thai labour legislation

Edited April 29, 2012 by Soutpeel

[JurgenG]

Jeez, let it go, will you?

It's a learning experience.

Bedix your one bi polar guy. In the credit card debt thread you take a stance the people who loan and not pay back are bad. (and i agree) But here you look at it totally different, the guy is cheated out of money on an even more personal way. I would not let something like that go easy. I would certainly get annoyed and try to get even.

I think I understand Bendix point of view.

What are you chance of success ? None ? Let it go !

[robblok]

Jeez, let it go, will you?

It's a learning experience.

Bedix your one bi polar guy. In the credit card debt thread you take a stance the people who loan and not pay back are bad. (and i agree) But here you look at it totally different, the guy is cheated out of money on an even more personal way. I would not let something like that go easy. I would certainly get annoyed and try to get even.

I think I understand Bendix point of view.

What are you chance of success ? None ? Let it go !

I understand that too, does not mean it would not seriously piss me off. And i would rant about it for a while. Let the guy blow off some steam. I hate cheats and shady business deals.

[JurgenG]

Regarding suing your employer, I work for a company that not only tries to follow the laws of the countries where it has office but also tries to be an "ethical" company. So when we have a dispute with an employee, we always try to do the "right" thing.

Saying that, in the recents years, we had disputes (that I'm aware of) with two employees who had unreasonable demands. In both cases, as we couldn't find an agreement, our final answer was "you get nothing, see you in court". Both employees had legal advisers, probably the main reason of the trouble. In both case, they came back to us with "regarding your last offer, is it still ok ?".

A lot of people will advise you about the law. But suing someone can take years and is very expensive. So the best is finding a compromise. And if you can't, and the amount is not that much, take it as a learning experience and move on.

Edited April 29, 2012 by JurgenG

[Soutpeel]

Regarding suing your employer, I work for a company that not only try to follow the laws of the countries where it has offices but also try to be an "ethical" company. So when we have a dispute with an employee, we always try to do the "right" thing.

Saying that, in the recents years, we had disputes (that I'm aware of) with two employees who had unreasonable demands. In both cases, as we couldn't find an agreement, our final answer was "you get nothing, see you in court". Both employees had legal advisers, probably the main reason of the trouble. In both case, they came back to us with "regarding your last offer, Is it still ok ?".

A lot of people will advise you about the law. But suing someone can take years and is very expensive. So the best is finding a compromise. And if you can't, and the amount is not that much, take it as a learning experience and move on.

If the OP takes this to the DOL, he will only be able to sue for any monies owed, ie 2 months back pay....the 12 month clause would need to be fought in a normal court with a lawyer as this is a breach of contract.

The DOL would only be interested in the fact that he has provided "services" as an emploee and not been paid for the actual work done to date.