What If Requirements Are Set Higher For Retirement, Ed Visa Etc....

[Dante99]

Agree 100% Dave; only developed country in the world that pulls this <deleted>.

However, it is somewhat mitigated in that they allow the first ~$92,000 USD from overseas earnings to be exempt.

McG-

The exemption was only for "earned income", basically wages and salaries, but did not include investment income for which there was no exemption. Do you know if that is still correct?

[mcgriffith]

You are right, Dante. Overseas investment income still taxable, unless tax has already been paid, equal to the tax due in US.

Of course this involves a CPA, multiple calculations and forms.

US has probably the most convoluted and complicated tax laws on the planet.

[Mapguy]

Why, pray tell, is the discussion turning into a diatribe against the American tax system, or the American IRS versus Inland Revenue?! The OP's concern is with possible changes in visa requirements in Thailand, a topic that is important to expats here in Chiang Mai who want to stay here. If people are having difficulty with the policies of government in their "home" countries, then they need to do something to change them there. Edited May 2, 2012 by Mapguy

[mcgriffith]

You're right Mapguy, and I love the emoticon BTW.

Back on topic...I think we have covered it all.

If the OP requests the thread closed, I'll be happy to do so.

[Dante99]

You are right, Dante. Overseas investment income still taxable, unless tax has already been paid, equal to the tax due in US.

Of course this involves a CPA, multiple calculations and forms.

US has probably the most convoluted and complicated tax laws on the planet.

Thanks McG.

[smiling mantis]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately after the news came out that the U.S. might start confiscating passports if the IRS alleges non-payment. I've no doubt that this will pass, and then the question is, what is the next agency to be given this kind of power? I'm in no trouble with the IRS, today... but with these new reporting requirements of offshore banking accounts and so forth, it's easy to see how failing to dot an i or cross a t screws me over and big.

A valid U.S. passport is required in order for me to stay in Thailand, even if under the so-called retirement visa. So I'm looking at lots of things that can go wrong in the future, that would force me to leave. How can I actually retire here in the face of that? I'm supposed buy a condo? Get a car?

I don't have the kind of money where I can do this here, and then be forced to do it all over again in some other country.

So, as much as I like Thailand, I'm forced to start looking at other venues. The Philippines retirement option is more to my liking, as it basically states you get to live there for life. Not clear what losing the passport would mean though. In Cambodia you can apparently buy citizenship for $50K? And Mexico has what they call Immigrado status, which is obtained after five years of holding an FM-2 visa and which then basically confers you citizenship, minus the right to vote. But no requirement that I have a U.S. passport once Immigrado is achieved. Mexico has the added attraction of having a long track record with liberal treatment of immigrants, and as bonus just recently revised their laws toward immigration making them simpler and easier (at least for someone like me).

I know there are those who think there is nothing to worry about, but seriously, you can't be reading the same news I am. The U.S. is becoming increasingly hostile to all its citizens, not just expats, and the Thais are free to change the rules in any way they wish, at any time, and they certainly are not without good reasons for doing so. Every time I apply for an extension they can say no, and if I'm all in, that basically wipes me out, esp. if they're saying no to other expats and now I can't sell my condo or car for anywhere near what I paid for it.

In a way, the combinations of these policies amounts to a de facto raising of the capital requirements for retirement here. If I decide I need to keep a fallback option in place, it's just too expensive to stay here. It's really more of a deluxe tourist visa at this point.

[mcgriffith]

Well, nothing has happened yet, Mantis, so I wouldn't worry about Thailand and its requirements for long-term stay just yet.

But it is always good to have a Plan B.

[skybluepete]

with reference to the 800k in the bank,if married and not to a thai is that per person or total amount for married couple.

[Jingthing]

with reference to the 800k in the bank,if married and not to a thai is that per person or total amount for married couple.

It can be a twofer if you follow the rules. Post in the visa forum if you need technical advice.

[skybluepete]

with reference to the 800k in the bank,if married and not to a thai is that per person or total amount for married couple.

It can be a twofer if you follow the rules. Post in the visa forum if you need technical advice.

sorry,what is twofer.

[Jingthing]

with reference to the 800k in the bank,if married and not to a thai is that per person or total amount for married couple.

It can be a twofer if you follow the rules. Post in the visa forum if you need technical advice.

sorry,what is twofer.

Twofer as in two for one.

The 800K can be used as the qualifier to include BOTH married persons as you asked. Anyone trying this, as I said, should search the forum for specific details on how to go about that and/or post on the visa forum.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Jingthing

[hellodolly]

with reference to the 800k in the bank,if married and not to a thai is that per person or total amount for married couple.

It can be a twofer if you follow the rules. Post in the visa forum if you need technical advice.

sorry,what is twofer.

Twofer as in two for one.

The 800K can be used as the qualifier to include BOTH married persons as you asked. Anyone trying this, as I said, should search the forum for specific details on how to go about that and/or post on the visa forum.

I really don't know about the two for one, But I do know the last time I was in to renew there was a couple just ahead of me who went in together and both got their visa renewed.

I have no idea what they used for qualifications.

[Jingthing]

I know. But it's a bit tricky to start up in the beginning. Don't do it without advice from the experts on the visa forum.

[Mapguy]

It "appears" (My having been burned recently for appearing too authoritative,so twice shy!) that in retirement visa cases, dependents may be added without incurring any additional financial requirements. Refer to the attached police order. I do suggest informally that you be dam_n certain to be able to prove the sponsor's financial status with appropriate documentation.

There is also an excellent thread on immigration requirements elsewhere on ThaiVisa. I might not be up to date!

Visa Categories Police Order 6.2011.pdf

[Jingthing]

It doesn't appear. It IS.

[jjczap]

I have a friend on an old 'investment visa' which only requires 'proof' of 'investment' (i.e. no 800k tied up) so he shows he owns an expensive condo and that - as they say - is that

on a wider note getting rid of some of the 'less economically viable' expats would not be such a bad thing and as for the Yanks who only have to 'swear' they have the income well that's a farce

Why is it a farce, if you are caught out you could face some legal condequence and donot forget immigration can and has asked for proof of what one swears too. I know your just jealous

I agree. Only a fool would lie to an officer of the U.S. government. That is how they have taken down many, many of it's citizens including some high profile ones with the best lawyers money can buy; not the underlying crime or act, but lying about it to the government. Perjury is a serious crime and there are many prosecutions and convictions every year. And of course Immigration can ask as they please to prove up.

Furthermore, I had to prove more than most in order to get my O-A Visa that I extend each year; including proof that I'm not a criminal, proof of over a million THB (or whatever the requirement was 5 years ago) in investments or cash, medical certificate, etc., etc. So I don't see the farce at all. Indeed it is more jealousy than anything.

Mr. Udonguy seems to think us Yank are all liers and cheats, and that there are many falsifying the documents. Little does he really have a clue to the consequences if caught, or his random off the cuff evaluation of the Yanks. I can't begin to guess where he or she is from. Maybe where he is from they do things like that. So not a farce at all. I imagine many who now have to pay $50 for the 5 minute piece of paper at the Consulate (that's the farce) have now (guessing only) switched to getting the $5 - $6 piece of paper from the bank. I have because it's more convenient and will go back to the affidavit if I need to show more income.

Your right that it is a farce and also you are not guessing on the bank statement - my 4 times renewal of retirement visa will expire on May 18 and every other time I have used the consulate letter - never a problem - my mind has changed along with many of my friends to use the bank statement - in our minds it it more simple to show an asset base in Thai then to spend 50$ and then have the backup info to prove income if they want - this will be my first experience , I'll let you know

Second the tone of the thread makes me a little sad - I have been here for five years now and I didnot realize the extent ( based on the comments ) of many expats living on the edge - cant afford to live in thier own country - worried about more requirement in Thai - in the end I simpathize with the Thai that they dont want a burden on their country and the expat that wants to have a life - in the end its their country guys