Financial Expectations Of A Thai Women

[brit1984]

Ladies have family and friends and that mean a lot of pressure. I just want to give two examples.

Last month I was in Isan and the talk of the town was a local girl who had just married a foreigner and was building a huge mansion (by local standard), driving a brand new nice car ... The next girl who marry a foreigner will have a lot of pressure to get at least the same or it will be big lost of face for herself and her relatives.

And don't think it gets better when people are more "educated". A lady friend of our was working in an international company with all the female coworkers was from upper middle class. The bitching was permanent. Every other day someone will come with the new designer bag, the diamond earings, the brand name watch ... that her husband or boyfriend had just offered them. If you get nothing from your husband / boyfriend it's either you married a loser or he doesn't love/respect you.

There is a pressure on village girls to bring back a Richer farang than their neighbors brought, people are not blind and it is basically viewed as your status

Like one girl getting a new BMW coupe and a mansion and another a Honda wave and a crappy condo somewhere

(from their farang husbands or bf)

Yes this is very real, but IMO it's only the total suckers that allow their girl to pressure them into these things based on her or her family's desire for face.

If the guy is truly wealthy and doesn't mind shelling out for his teerak then fine more power to him, but the problem I see is when guys "fall in love" and stop using their brain, allow themselves to be led around by their girl like she's holding a rope going through the ring in his dick nose.

Absolutely nothing wrong in my book to paying a reasonable monthly "allowance" but keeping the total expenditure per month strictly within your budget, and being ready to give her the flit at any time if you stop getting good value for your money.

After three good years with one girl I gave her 200K to build her house on mama's land, and knew that was a gift, basically a bonus, but after the fact, not a deposit on hope of future performance. I ended up lending her another 30K to get the toilet put in, and then she moved on to the next fellow before paying that off in full, but believe it or not sent me the balance from the UK eight months later.

Most girls from the right background (fresh off the rice farm, no English etc) even if they're a little stunner, will be OK with 5-8K per month as long as they think there's a good chance they'll be able to convince you to put a ring on it eventually. Over time this will grow to 10K+ in explicit allowance, but of course total out of pocket would likely be 15K. I consider that fair as long as she's a quick learner and eager to please, doesn't make much trouble on the home front. But the time comes when she's learned her English and has figured out there are much richer greener pastures out there, time for her to graduate and move on, fair enough, works for me.

Johnny - you clearly demonstrate many years of accumulated knowledge about Thailand

However, your posts often suggest some confusion between your love partners and staff/pets

Please could you clarify if you really think like this or is it just an ongoing tongue-in-cheek joke?...

[Soutpeel]

There seems to be an " Arms Race " Thai style where farangs are outbidding each other to be the biggest mug in the village.

Is this a step up or a step down from being the only gay in the village ?...

You tell me you sound like you got experience.

....naah I am not Welsh

[robblok]

There seems to be an " Arms Race " Thai style where farangs are outbidding each other to be the biggest mug in the village.

Is this a step up or a step down from being the only gay in the village ?...

You tell me you sound like you got experience.

....naah I am not Welsh

I thought that was with sheep and the English did the gay thing. Pardon me for mixing it up.

[farang000999]

name of building and addy?

Of course, Thai only (not advertised as far as my knowlegdement), nice quiet clean place,

Sure, not luxury western grand place (no swimming pool, no gym - BTW who need a gym),

But suits me to sleep, watch television, buy food outside, etc.

Just 30thb motorcy from BTS (a distance I will walk, if I am pissed off even at 40'C - BTW better exercise than a gym),

PS: it was rated as a 3k-3.5k apartment by another Thai friend, so for 5k it would be expensive for natives, which proves I don't think many will have regular 30k-42k room rent

what is the name and address of the building? thanks.

[Soutpeel]

I thought that was with sheep and the English did the gay thing. Pardon me for mixing it up.

You may not get these references unless you have seen a UK comedy called "Little Britain"

But you are quite correct about the Welsh and their favourite 4 legged play mates...Sales of wellington boots in Wales are 3 times the national average, and i will let you figure out why...

[robblok]

I thought that was with sheep and the English did the gay thing. Pardon me for mixing it up.

You may not get these references unless you have seen a UK comedy called "Little Britain"

But you are quite correct about the Welsh and their favourite 4 legged play mates...Sales of wellington boots in Wales are 3 times the national average, and i will let you figure out why...

Come on that is an old joke, we used to say that about our farmers too.

[jinjinswing]

Getting back to the topic im always amazed just because were the faranags here we should just fall into line with what these girls expect.

I dont for one moment agree i should contribute to a gf's living expenses, im guessing many of the posters here are from a time long gone, this is the modern world and we come from it, the days were women are kept are long gone in the west, if these Thai babes wanna date us how about they fit in with western expectation and thinking.....modern thinking.

I have no probem with buying my girl a gift, she would never spend 3000 on an item of clothing for herself, i can do it and i do do it from time to time, this is to show her how i feel about her, but theres no chance im going to contribute a monthly amount just because its hard for her.

I have explained to my girl how it is in the west..im not a young guy but im a modern guy, women do pay on dates in the west and they should here too. She pays for the odd meal, taxi whatever, has a mortgage and personal loan, saves money and only earns 5000 more than your woman my friend...

Dont give her anything, you do enough, in fact get her to contribute sometimes when you go out, if you want to help her show her how to set a budget and stick to it, i did have a previous gf who earned the same as the current but had absolutely nothing after 4 ys with me she learned to be a saver and she often paid when we went out.

[farang000999]

johnny just curious why you choose bangkok over a more cheaper rural region of thailand?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Johnny - you clearly demonstrate many years of accumulated knowledge about Thailand

However, your posts often suggest some confusion between your love partners and staff/pets

Please could you clarify if you really think like this or is it just an ongoing tongue-in-cheek joke?...

I'm sure the combination of your assumptions and the fact that individual posts don't show the whole picture create an incomplete picture in your mind, but if you use the "search by poster" function on this site you'll see I'm completely consistent and sincere, although my moral value system is often ridiculed for being so far outside the mainstream.

Obviously all you TVers out there sick of hearing from me feel free to skip if this is likely to not be of interest to you.

I don't believe in using the **feeling** of "love", as nice as it is, as the basis for long-term relationships. I do try to practice what I call real love, in as many relationships as possible, whether they are purely sexual or involve other of the many other ways people relate. I am rigorous about honesty in all my relationships and do my utmost to not allow my selfishness to cause harm to others, and in fact usually go too far in the other direction when it comes to my sexual partners, to make sure they get much more value out of me than I do from them.

Real love = consistent awareness and consideration, time and effort directed toward the benefit of the other, not what they think they want, but what I see they need emotionally/psychologically/spiritually to grow as a whole and maturing person.

For many years now I have always start out new relationships as purely transactional (what you call "staff"), exchanging either cash for services or more recently, mostly bartering services in kind. Some of these last for only a few months, some for many years, but I don't have the expectation nor even the desire at this point that they will last "forever". I am incapable of being monogamous for more than an initial infatuation period, which varies from two weeks to several months, and I am up front about this from the beginning.

Many of these relationships do end up developing strong friendship and true intimate commitment, especially to the degree the girl is able to reciprocate the work involved in true love, beyond the services she's committed to deliver. They nearly all continue past the point where we no longer see each other often, and I am in regular contact with many of my "graduates" around the world and often also their husbands and other family members. Several girls have expressed their desire to return to me, but I only allow that as a temporary measure to help them transition back to either being independent or a new partner.

johnny just curious why you choose bangkok over a more cheaper rural region of thailand?

1 I'm a city boy at heart, would be bored to tears spending more than a few weeks at a time out in the sticks

2 my income would be even lower out there and any lower rent offset by the need to own a car

3 the quality of schooling for my kids, health care in emergencies etc

4 I've spent a fair bit on improvements to the house I rent over the years

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If she wants to break things off at that point I would say it's only fair and certainly practical to offer her a small severance package.

they have been in a 50/50 relationship which was more like 70/30 since he says he paid for everything for the last year or so

why on earth would she deserve a severance package ???

Nothing to do with "deserve", just a practicality, help her save face.

If you’re picking up a girl somewhere and you happen to have a car one test to see if she is interested was to walk her to the passenger side of the door, open the door and let her in. Then you walk back to the driver side and as you start fumbling with your keys to open the door the girl inside will either reach over to open the door for you or not. If not forget about getting laid as well.

From

, straight from my home town buddy Chazz.

[arthurwait]

Is there any lady posting in this forum, it would be nice to have their opinion.

Ladies have family and friends and that mean a lot of pressure. I just want to give two examples.

Last month I was in Isan and the talk of the town was a local girl who had just married a foreigner and was building a huge mansion (by local standard), driving a brand new nice car ... The next girl who marry a foreigner will have a lot of pressure to get at least the same or it will be big lost of face for herself and her relatives.

And don't think it gets better when people are more "educated". A lady friend of our was working in an international company with all the female coworkers was from upper middle class. The bitching was permanent. Every other day someone will come with the new designer bag, the diamond earings, the brand name watch ... that her husband or boyfriend had just offered them. If you get nothing from your husband / boyfriend it's either you married a loser or he doesn't love/respect you.

Some maybe like that, but many aren't and if they were upper middle class and that shallow they wouldn't be working at all just living off the families money or doing a couple of hours a day in the family business or managing it for much bigger bucks especially if they have a rich husband shelling out money on them.

You'll find many of the people with real money in this country don't show it at all. Many who look like they do and are desperately trying to climb the social ladder just have a trail of credit following them.

[Gweiloman]

A lot of selfish people on this forum. Wonder if this could have been a contributory factor to their divorce back home and subsequent "migration" to Thailand.

20k bht a month is subsistence living at best, for a young male, willing to rough it out. It is no where near enough for a 30 y.o. female. I love all those pseudo accountants analysing how much is spent on rental, food, transportation etc. You have forgotten one major item - shopping. You may argue that this is a non-essential item. Tell that to a drinker, smoker, gambler about their respective vices - they would rather forego something else that to be deprived of their addiction.

To the OP; in Asia, it is still generally expected that the male is the bread winner and financier, regardless of whether the female partner is earning a salary or not. In some cases, the female is the main bread winner but that is not through choice but necessity (I find a lot of Thai men, particularly unfortunate ones whose family did not have the necessary financial resources to send them to school / college / university are not capable of earning and saving good money). If you cannot accept this, then chances are that your relationship will fail at some juncture.

[JurgenG]

Is there any lady posting in this forum, it would be nice to have their opinion.

Ladies have family and friends and that mean a lot of pressure. I just want to give two examples.

Last month I was in Isan and the talk of the town was a local girl who had just married a foreigner and was building a huge mansion (by local standard), driving a brand new nice car ... The next girl who marry a foreigner will have a lot of pressure to get at least the same or it will be big lost of face for herself and her relatives.

And don't think it gets better when people are more "educated". A lady friend of our was working in an international company with all the female coworkers was from upper middle class. The bitching was permanent. Every other day someone will come with the new designer bag, the diamond earings, the brand name watch ... that her husband or boyfriend had just offered them. If you get nothing from your husband / boyfriend it's either you married a loser or he doesn't love/respect you.

Some maybe like that, but many aren't and if they were upper middle class and that shallow they wouldn't be working at all just living off the families money or doing a couple of hours a day in the family business or managing it for much bigger bucks especially if they have a rich husband shelling out money on them.

You'll find many of the people with real money in this country don't show it at all. Many who look like they do and are desperately trying to climb the social ladder just have a trail of credit following them.

Maybe it's a problem of definition. Upper middle class doesn't mean big money. For me, in Thailand it's university education, senior management, household earning 100-200k a month, big japanese car or small German car, a 10-20M house ... People who are comfortable but no big money.

In Asia it's crazy how people spend on designer brands. Back home I don't know many people who have a Louis Vuitton bag. In Asia, I don't know any woman who don't have at least one, and of course not fake.

Edited May 1, 2012 by JurgenG

[HardenedSoul]

A lot of selfish people on this forum. Wonder if this could have been a contributory factor to their divorce back home and subsequent "migration" to Thailand.

20k bht a month is subsistence living at best, for a young male, willing to rough it out. It is no where near enough for a 30 y.o. female. I love all those pseudo accountants analysing how much is spent on rental, food, transportation etc. You have forgotten one major item - shopping. You may argue that this is a non-essential item. Tell that to a drinker, smoker, gambler about their respective vices - they would rather forego something else that to be deprived of their addiction.

I really wish people would stop banging on about how 20k is chump change to a Thai. It isn't.

Fact: the average monthly salary in Thailand is significantly less than 20 large.

Fact: A Thai can stretch a baht far further than most farangs could ever dream of.

Like most working stiffs in the UK, the US or Europe, when it comes to bridging the gap between what they earn and what they spend, they just whack everything on credit cards and personal loans. Are you so out of touch that you've forgotten how normal people live?

[robblok]

A lot of selfish people on this forum. Wonder if this could have been a contributory factor to their divorce back home and subsequent "migration" to Thailand.

20k bht a month is subsistence living at best, for a young male, willing to rough it out. It is no where near enough for a 30 y.o. female. I love all those pseudo accountants analysing how much is spent on rental, food, transportation etc. You have forgotten one major item - shopping. You may argue that this is a non-essential item. Tell that to a drinker, smoker, gambler about their respective vices - they would rather forego something else that to be deprived of their addiction.

I really wish people would stop banging on about how 20k is chump change to a Thai. It isn't.

Fact: the average monthly salary in Thailand is significantly less than 20 large.

Fact: A Thai can stretch a baht far further than most farangs could ever dream of.

Like most working stiffs in the UK, the US or Europe, when it comes to bridging the gap between what they earn and what they spend, they just whack everything on credit cards and personal loans. Are you so out of touch that you've forgotten how normal people live?

Some people either lost contact how normal people live or never had it. 20k is a good salary for a Thai. There are even normal people in the west who only got 30k and its considerably more expensive there.

I can still remember when i had a lot less money guess for most of you that time was never there.

[robblok]

Is there any lady posting in this forum, it would be nice to have their opinion.

Ladies have family and friends and that mean a lot of pressure. I just want to give two examples.

Last month I was in Isan and the talk of the town was a local girl who had just married a foreigner and was building a huge mansion (by local standard), driving a brand new nice car ... The next girl who marry a foreigner will have a lot of pressure to get at least the same or it will be big lost of face for herself and her relatives.

And don't think it gets better when people are more "educated". A lady friend of our was working in an international company with all the female coworkers was from upper middle class. The bitching was permanent. Every other day someone will come with the new designer bag, the diamond earings, the brand name watch ... that her husband or boyfriend had just offered them. If you get nothing from your husband / boyfriend it's either you married a loser or he doesn't love/respect you.

Some maybe like that, but many aren't and if they were upper middle class and that shallow they wouldn't be working at all just living off the families money or doing a couple of hours a day in the family business or managing it for much bigger bucks especially if they have a rich husband shelling out money on them.

You'll find many of the people with real money in this country don't show it at all. Many who look like they do and are desperately trying to climb the social ladder just have a trail of credit following them.

Maybe it's a problem of definition. Upper middle class doesn't mean big money. For me, in Thailand it's university education, senior management, household earning 100-200k a month, big japanese car or small German car, a 10-20M house ... People who are comfortable but no big money.

In Asia it's crazy how people spend on designer brands. Back home I don't know many people who have a Louis Vuitton bag. In Asia, I don't know any woman who don't have at least one, and of course not fake.

Jurgen i make around 120-140k after taxes. I know i could not afford a 10m house and a small german car. That would be about 12m, a mortgage of about 120k baht per month. So could you please explain your calculations. To have that you must have considerably more money or spend it all on housing and car for outward show and dont have a penny for other things.

Edited May 2, 2012 by robblok

[chrisinth]

I thought that was with sheep and the English did the gay thing. Pardon me for mixing it up.

You may not get these references unless you have seen a UK comedy called "Little Britain"

But you are quite correct about the Welsh and their favourite 4 legged play mates...Sales of wellington boots in Wales are 3 times the national average, and i will let you figure out why...

Come on that is an old joke, we used to say that about our farmers too.

Rob, don't call it a joke in front of the Welsh!

They can get a bit sensitive about this subject.

Edited May 2, 2012 by chrisinth

[pokerkid]

theres only a handful of thais that would or even could pay upwards to 30,000+ thb a month for a renting a condo (thais that rich would just buy it and forget about renting )

and why does she need to be bought a "half decent car for 500,000+ " etc

also ,i dont know many farangs and ceratinly not many thais that are making a million a month

the kind of thai people making a million a month ,are probably not going to be interested in a girl whos 30 odd

and been around the block a bit either ........esp with farangs

Something I have always wondered about posts like this...every time I get in the car and drive to Pattaya or BKK...I see many, many Merc's BMW's big Audi etc etc...seeing our resident experts are of the opinion Thai's are "poor" and wouldnt pay 30k/m for a condo...who exactly are these people driving these cars ?

As far as I can see...dont see many farangs driving these sort of vehicles.

further the serviced apartment I stay in when I have to go the office in BKK is always full, but typically there are only 3-4 Farangs living there, the rest are Thai...Starting price per month 42k/m

I guess you guys must be living in a different reality

THB 20,000/m to live on is a pittance irrespective of your nationality

appearances can be deceiving. You see something and draw a conclusion. It is indeed as far as YOU can see.

That still does not change the FACT that most of the thai population makes less then 20.000 baht a month

Edited May 2, 2012 by pokerkid

[akspace]

Jurgen i make around 120-140k after taxes. I know i could not afford a 10m house and a small german car. That would be about 12m, a mortgage of about 120k baht per month. So could you please explain your calculations. To have that you must have considerably more money or spend it all on housing and car for outward show and dont have a penny for other things.

A 25 year mortgage on a 10m house should run about 60k a month. Interest rates in Thailand are high right now, I could secure that loan with my US bank for under 45k a month (30 years). A german car should run about 20-30k a month more. So on 120k you could afford both and still have money for food.

[Soutpeel]

Jurgen i make around 120-140k after taxes. I know i could not afford a 10m house and a small german car. That would be about 12m, a mortgage of about 120k baht per month. So could you please explain your calculations. To have that you must have considerably more money or spend it all on housing and car for outward show and dont have a penny for other things.

A 25 year mortgage on a 10m house should run about 60k a month. Interest rates in Thailand are high right now, I could secure that loan with my US bank for under 45k a month (30 years). A german car should run about 20-30k a month more. So on 120k you could afford both and still have money for food.

So your US bank would grant you a mortgage on a property in Thailand unseen, even with the fact as a foreigner you can never own the land ?...interesting kinda defies good business practice to me, giving someone to buy something they can never fully legally own in their own name..

[akspace]

So your US bank would grant you a mortgage on a property in Thailand unseen, even with the fact as a foreigner you can never own the land ?...interesting kinda defies good business practice to me, giving someone to buy something they can never fully legally own in their own name..

My bank? They would give me an unsecured loan for $350k, that is beside the point. The point is the mortgage of a 10m baht property is plenty affordable on a salary of 120k baht.

As an aside, can you possible be more literal? A house is easily interchangable with a condo in the context above.

[ravip]

OP... I think you should ignore the cynics saying she just wants your money... if she is decent looking she could have found another guy (probably older than you) making ten or twenty times more than you who would give her lots of money... on 20k/month she is probably really struggling and anything you can do to help would be appreciated... however, you need to explain to her (if you haven't already) that you are not making big bucks so you don't have much spare cash to share with her (maybe also explain the type of lifestyle you expect to be able to provide for your family in the future if you stay together)... if she really loves you, this will be no problem... if money is important to her, she will be gone pretty fast and you can move on...

Brit, 20k is a decent salary for a Thai they will not struggle on a salary like that.

"Brit, 20k is a decent salary for a Thai they will not struggle on a salary like that."

Are you really serious with this comment?

Edited May 2, 2012 by ravip

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Maybe it's a problem of definition. Upper middle class doesn't mean big money. For me, in Thailand it's university education, senior management, household earning 100-200k a month, big japanese car or small German car, a 10-20M house ... People who are comfortable but no big money.

In Asia it's crazy how people spend on designer brands. Back home I don't know many people who have a Louis Vuitton bag. In Asia, I don't know any woman who don't have at least one, and of course not fake.

Obviously there is a very wide range of socio-economic classes represented here, each with their own limited point of view.

Jurgen claims he's "never met" an Asian woman that doesn't own at least one genuine LV bag; while I suppose that's theoretically possible depending on his definition of "met", I suspect this isn't literally true and if it is feel very sorry for him for having so restricted the range of people he associates with.

I know dozens of farang who live on 30-45K per month, and some of them claim to be able to save on that.

Other than my very wealthy customers, I only know a handful of Thais that have an income over 20K, and most of them - several dozen - are well under 12, some at 4-5.

Those that are self-employed range all over depending on the usual business variables, but often net less than 10K per month and sometimes don't break even.

These are "normal Thais" AFAIC, only a very small percentage of Thais make much more than 20K.

The upper-middle range Jurgen calls merely "comfortable but no big money" is of course based on his western perceptions, but from the normal Thai's POV they are rich, barely distinguishable from people making millions in passive income.

----------------------

So to bring this back to the OP, it is entirely reasonable for a young attractive Thai girl to "expect" her man to chip in anywhere from 5-10K in exchange for her favors, in addition to the normal gifts, picking up the tab etc. A real stunner with some ambition, or simply looking to maximize her short-term income, will expect much more, especially if she's from a higher socio-economic background, and of course it's up to you to decide if the services she provides are worth it or not.

When a farang man is involved, a savvy Thai girl will understand she may not get the ongoing allowance in the short term, but she certainly will be angling for long term security in exchange; some cynics call this "the long con", but of course it has nothing to do with Thai culture, she's simply learned that's how farang women traditionally have played the game.

If you're not clear with her that's marriage isn't in the cards I would contend you're being deceptive; if you have made that clear and she still sticks around for peanuts, of course that's her choice but IMO you may well be taking advantage of her feelings for you.

The uneducated upcountry girl without any exposure to western mores won't be aware of our strange customs back home and therefore less likely to take the "long con" approach - this is probably why western men will come to the conclusion that "they're all whores" - and of course she'll be happy with less, and for those that equate price with value they become "cheap whores".

Of course if you're young and handsome many more girls will give it a go without asking for money, sometimes just for the sheer physical pleasure of the sex, and of course gaining face. The older and/or less physically attractive you are, the more frequently and higher the amounts you'll need to pay. And of course being married has the same effect.

In Thai society none of this has anything to do with prostitution and is completely normal, expected and more or less respectable relations between the sexes, except among the more Victorian elements of society, the top strata most influenced by European/Judeo-Christian values and strict Buddhists.

All this is of course my own opinion based on my own experience and value system - I am well aware many will indignantly disagree and feel their own experience doesn't fit the above.

If any older less attractive men here have had their young and beautiful Thai SO stick with them through thick and thin, especially been financially supported by them for an extended period of time, then I would heartily congratulate you, you're an unusually lucky fellow.

And note especially that I'm not trying to cast any aspersions on Thai girls nor the society that promulgates these values, I personally think there's nothing wrong with them, and they are in fact much more realistic and reasonable compared to what I consider the heinous mythology of a life-long commitment to monogamy being the "one right way", and expecially "romantic love" as its "only good" basis.

[DP25]

Maybe it's a problem of definition. Upper middle class doesn't mean big money. For me, in Thailand it's university education, senior management, household earning 100-200k a month, big japanese car or small German car, a 10-20M house ... People who are comfortable but no big money.

In Asia it's crazy how people spend on designer brands. Back home I don't know many people who have a Louis Vuitton bag. In Asia, I don't know any woman who don't have at least one, and of course not fake.

A 20 million baht home, and an imported 3-5 million baht car is upper middle class to you? How many people do you think could afford this kind of stuff?

According to the Revenue Department, there are 9 million people registered to pay taxes in Thailand. Of these only 2.3 million pay income tax, because the rest earn under 20k per month. Of course, 20k per month isn't enough to afford a 10-20 million baht home and a 3 million baht BMW. I don't think 100-200k is either after taxes. Lets say 4 million per year, or 330k per month, could afford it after taxes. How many of these people making 4 million per year are there in Thailand? According to the government, there are only 60,000 people in the entire country that are earning a salary at that level or higher and paying taxes on it. 60,000 out of 9 million registered taxpayers. 0.66% of taxpayers make enough to afford what you consider to be 'upper middle class'. Of course many Thais do not pay income taxes because they have businesses in the grey economy, so there are more that could afford it, but the number is still very small. 20 million baht house and a 3 million baht car is the 1% in Thailand

My source for salary and tax information

http://www.nationmul...s-30164639.html

The country's tax revenue is provided by only a small group of people. According to statistics released last year, only 2.3 million people nationwide pay personal income tax to help finance public spending for the country's population of more than 64 million. Some 9 million people file personal income tax returns each year, but the majority are exempt from tax liability as they earn less than Bt20,000 per month.

In the meanwhile, middle-income earners have been squeezed between the rich and poor. Some 60,000 people each year pay taxes in the highest bracket of 37 per cent, which applies for an annual income of more than Bt4 million per year. This group of 60,000 accounts for as much as 50 per cent of total personal income tax collected each year. And a full one-third of income tax collected is paid by just 2,400 people in the country who earn over Bt10 million per year. The richest 20 per cent of the population accounts for 54 per cent of total income, while the poorest 20 per cent accounts for just 4.8 per cent, according to the Finance Ministry.

Lets now look at the number of people per year who are buying BMWs and Mercedes. Small German cars some people think the middle class can afford.

Last year, BMW sold a grand total of 3,800 cars. It's highest total ever

http://www.nationmul...k-30176881.html

Mercedes sold a total of 2,710 cars.

http://www.mercedes-...ce_Q4_2011.html

That's a total of 6,510 cars. In the entire country of 65 million people. Out of 800,000 total cars sold. 0.8% of cars sold last year. And lets remember that most people still drive motorbikes because cars are too expensive for them.

Some of you people are completely out of touch with how much it costs to live here and how much average people make. The people you consider to be just 'upper middle class' are in fact the 1% in Thailand. There is an even smaller mega rich category above these people who own the large corporations, but that should not take away from the fact that in Thailand these people are wealthy and in the top 1%.

[mackes]

I dont for one moment agree i should contribute to a gf's living expenses, im guessing many of the posters here are from a time long gone, this is the modern world and we come from it, the days were women are kept are long gone in the west, if these Thai babes wanna date us how about they fit in with western expectation and thinking.....modern thinking.

I have no probem with buying my girl a gift, she would never spend 3000 on an item of clothing for herself, i can do it and i do do it from time to time, this is to show her how i feel about her, but theres no chance im going to contribute a monthly amount just because its hard for her.

I have explained to my girl how it is in the west..im not a young guy but im a modern guy, women do pay on dates in the west and they should here too. She pays for the odd meal, taxi whatever, has a mortgage and personal loan, saves money and only earns 5000 more than your woman my friend...

Dont give her anything, you do enough, in fact get her to contribute sometimes when you go out, if you want to help her show her how to set a budget and stick to it, i did have a previous gf who earned the same as the current but had absolutely nothing after 4 ys with me she learned to be a saver and she often paid when we went out.

Which world are you referring to?

What changed today compared to over 50 years ago is the emancipation that gives woman

the same right as men. What has not changed much is the average income differences between man

and woman, men have far more available income than women. Not all, but in average. And don't forget

that Thailand is about 30-40 years behind the west in development.

What you stated might be true in the Scandinavian countries but not in the rest of the world, the role play

is still that the woman take care of the household and children and the man ensure that there are resources

available and there is somewhere to live for the family. Your "modern life" is an utopia where the woman is

the loser, the man keeps his privileges but don't want to share with the woman, she have to work to earn her

own money in addition to take care of the household and the children.

A relation is not healthy if the parties is living different lives, e g the man is holding the woman at an living

standard far below his own. It is quite natural to share income to an extend so that both parties have a standard

of living that is equal. The question about wealth from earlier life is another one, it is also stated by laws that the

fortune you bring into marriage continued belongs to your self as an individual.

So my advice will be, don't give away your hard earned fortune but share what you own today so that you two will

have an equal amount of money to live from, that is fair and will give you a healthy relation. If your private expenses

is 30 000 a month give her the same budget (including her salary). Separated from your common expenses.

This is in my point of view modern thinking.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

A 20 million baht home, and an imported 3-5 million baht car is upper middle class to you? How many people do you think could afford this kind of stuff?

...

Lets now look at the number of people per year who are buying BMWs and Mercedes. Small German cars some people think the middle class can afford.

Last year, BMW sold a grand total of 3,800 cars. It's highest total ever

http://www.nationmul...k-30176881.html

Mercedes sold a total of 2,710 cars.

http://www.mercedes-...ce_Q4_2011.html

That's a total of 6,510 cars. In the entire country of 65 million people. Out of 800,000 total cars sold. 0.8% of cars sold last year. And lets remember that most people still drive motorbikes because cars are too expensive for them.

Some of you people are completely out of touch with how much it costs to live here and how much average people make. The people you consider to be just 'upper middle class' are in fact the 1% in Thailand. There is an even smaller mega rich category above these people who own the large corporations, but that should not take away from the fact that in Thailand these people are wealthy and in the top 1%.

I certainly agree more with your POV than Jurgen's, but note that many people would only count true "upper class" as those who wouldn't consider having to work for a living, but live off the passive income, trust funds etc inherited from their ancestors.

Regarding your car statistics, note that at the high end, the lifetime of such a car is easily ten years on average - my grandfather drove his Mercedes for 25 years, and then my father imported it to the US and kept it in good repair for another 10. So including second-hand and other brands, going by your stats I would guess there are maybe half a million high-end cars running around Thailand.

So yes even then, that's in the 1% range of population, given children, some wives don't drive etc.

So myself think it's fair to use "upper" for that group, acknowledging that the 50 or so richest families within this group are in a completely separate stratospheric range. I suspect for most of these, salary becomes completely irrelevant, for example those working for a huge corporation that are actually part of the family that owns it.

"Upper-middle" however should be kept very distinct from this "upper" and the true middle class, which is where you would find your normal salaried professionals, owners of smaller businesses, etc.

So I would define that upper-middle group as anyone earning over say 50K per year, up to the point where they could comfortably afford the sort of house and cars that Jurgen talks about, and use that for the "upper" cutoff.

Obviously teachers, policemen, lower-level bureaucrats etc are economically just as much part of the working class here as factory workers, with the distinction of opportunities resulting from corruption, which puts some of them right back up to the top of the charts 8-)

Subsistence-level rural farmers are an underclass that hardly exists at all in developed economies, but here is pretty close to if not the majority of the population, with of course a lot of overlap with the servants and security guards moved to the city. Even low-paying government jobs would IMO be above that level as more solid working class, with street vendors falling in between depending on their profits - some I know in fact would get well up into the middle class. . .

And just as obviously, all of these semantic distinctions are arbitrary and only useful for purposes of gross over-generalization.

[TommoPhysicist]

My main point to all those forang here who keep asking how much and those who say Thais can live well on 10,000 or whatever is you deserve all you get. You should give freely what is right or simply rent a GF which seems you are really doing but not honest enough to simply go to girly bars and get one. These days with 2 lovely children we spend around 250,000 baht a month because we can but if we only had 50,000 id still want my family to have if at all possible a decent home and the rest and why do so many forang think of Thais as some lower species who are not worthy to live same sort of life most westerners would expect except of course the bums.

I and my entire family can live well on 10k a month ........ some of my family are Thai, some are not.

I think that everyone can live well on 10k if they really wanted to, but the truth is, as Thais tend to say, many foreigners are stupid with money.

[HardenedSoul]

Of course if you're young and handsome many more girls will give it a go without asking for money, sometimes just for the sheer physical pleasure of the sex, and of course gaining face. The older and/or less physically attractive you are, the more frequently and higher the amounts you'll need to pay. And of course being married has the same effect.

And the truth shall set them free.

[TommoPhysicist]

In Asia it's crazy how people spend on designer brands. Back home I don't know many people who have a Louis Vuitton bag. In Asia, I don't know any woman who don't have at least one, and of course not fake.

Me too, I just spent 280bht on some new jeans, quality designer label 'LESVY 510'

[wana]

In Asia it's crazy how people spend on designer brands. Back home I don't know many people who have a Louis Vuitton bag. In Asia, I don't know any woman who don't have at least one, and of course not fake.

Me too, I just spent 280bht on some new jeans, quality designer label 'LESVY 510'

i bought a few nice pairs of "Diesel" jeans for 500 thb at a market in bangkok

can barely tell them apart from the ones that sell for a couple of hundred euros a pair in european cities

they have lasted me very well over 3-4 years since i bought them ,only problem is ,i have gained weight

since then