Price Increase For Bts Extention

[kawaiimomo]

Come on people, this is not about us foreigners who got an indecent high salary compared to the average Thai. Personally I don't care about this price for me, I care for my fellow local people with a shitty salary. I believe they can put more trains, with more cars, and make happy everyone.

EDIT: I also believe they can build more lines which would also end in less passengers per line.

EDIT2: My personal comments is not about how good is at my <deleted>$#@ing shitty country, because my country is plain $hit. But if the retarded country where I was born can do that in a decent way, Thailand is much more than capable of doing the same, if not better. My comments are about to improve the country where I live in, not to compare with "my" country I left because I could not stand it anymore. Not difficult to understand

Edited May 2, 2012 by kawaiimomo

[AngelofDeath]

I can't see the price increase from 15 baht to 18baht but I only read about the extra 15 baht for the extension from onnut and beyond. The only increase is the extra 15 bahts for the extension from onnut and new fare of 130baht for one day pass, right?

Edited May 2, 2012 by AngelofDeath

[dantilley]

As I recall, initial fares were 15-40 baht and increased to 15-45 baht at some point in the last 5-6 years.

Small point, but actually the initial fare was 10 Baht minimum for 1 station (unless you were going between Ari and Saphan Khwai or Chong Nonsi and Surasak), and has recently gone up to 15 Baht. Maximum fare has always been 40 Baht (until now with this new extension charge).

I agree with those who point out that it's still pretty cheap. I live equidistant between On Nut and Bang Chak stations so I can choose to avoid the extra 15 Baht if I want to. However it's a more pleasant commute along quieter roads to get to Bang Chak so I'd rather pay the extra 15 Baht and go there, it's not really a big deal.

[balo]

1 question

let say i buy a 15 trips for 375 bth and add 200 bth cash in the rabbit card

after 30 days the 15 trips expiry and if i didnt use up the 200 bth cash in the card does

the money still is stored in the card for further use or expiry after the 30days time period?

When I asked I was told the added cash stays in the card even if you dont use it. But we'll see after 30 days...

[welo]

BANGKOK, 20 April 2012 (NNT) – The Bangkok Mass Transit System Public Co (BTS) is introducing a “Rabbit Pass” to current holders of BTS 30-Day Smart Pass to use on the newly extended On Nut-Bearing section on the Sukhumvit Line.

Surapong Laoha-Unya, Executive Director of BTS Group, said a new flat-rate fee of 15 baht for the extension from On Nut to Bearing stations will not be applied to passengers holding a 30-day smart pass.

http://thainews.prd....id=255504200012

Clearly he is not that well informed about certain details of the new pricing scheme.

"30 day pass - not applicable for travel on the Sukhumvit Line Extension"

[welo]

... last I checked a one-station trip on the Tube in London was about 4 quid.

So yeah, it sucks that fares have increased, but it still represents the best way to get around if your origin and destination are near the alignment. While it reeks of TV's typical hater attitude, if you live in Bangkok and you can't afford to ride the BTS now that fares have increased, you probably shouldn't be here in the first place. It's really not that expensive...

A single journey ticket in Vienna is 80 Baht (2 EUR), and you are allowed to switch between subway, buses, tramways and trains as often as you need to reach your destination. A one-day ticket (unlimited number of rides) is 170 Baht and for daily commuters there are other cheaper options.

I am not sure these comparisons make a lot of sense, especially comparing Bangkok to one of the most expansive cities in Europe (London).

Personally, I don't complain about the general price increase, but I object the stupidity of the new system (15 Baht flat rate, 30-day pass not being valid for entire network) which is very likely due to the involved parties (BMA and BTS) not being able to work out a cost sharing system - or maybe due to technical limitations of the current ticketing system?

I wonder what happens when the BTS network grows (hint: red line). Will they be able to work out a ticketing system that is valid on the entire network, or will we have to pay separately each time we cross into a section that was financed by a different authority?

[NBD]

I fell foul of this the other day. I don't really have a problem with the extra charge - the extension has to be paid for - but what shuddering f were they thinking when they dreamed up this ridiculous system?

So now I have a BTS card which doesn't actually work to get me on and off the BTS at Punnawithi where I live. Fortunately I was at a quiet time and "only" waiting a couple of minutes (that's a long time in a suit when it's 40C!) but to say I was annoyed by it would be understating the case a bit. Why did I buy a card when I still have to buy a ticket?

So by the time I've paid that and the 20 Baht for a motorbike up my soi, I'm only 10-15 Baht short of a nice a/c taxi down to On Nut, and coming back I have the added bonus of a beer or two in the market.

Oh and one more thing. Apparently I can get a Rabbit Pass and this won't matter so much. And I can even use it on the MRT as well, which seems sensible. So why the hell didn't you tell me this when I bought your stupid, redundant BTS card this morning you jibbering little clot?

And to pre-empt the usual replies - Yes I could go home, but there's lots of reasons I live in Thailand, and one minor annoyance doesn't change them, or I'd have gone home ages ago. I work and pay taxes here, and use the BTS (at least I did until this week) so I have every dam_n right to complain.

Yes I speak Thai. I'm not 100% fluent but I can get by and understood their explanation of this absurd idea. I also topped my card up in Thai and could easily have understood someone telling me that I won't be able to use it.

Edited May 5, 2012 by NBD

[meand]

I fell foul of this the other day. I don't really have a problem with the extra charge - the extension has to be paid for - but what shuddering f were they thinking when they dreamed up this ridiculous system?

So now I have a BTS card which doesn't actually work to get me on and off the BTS at Punnawithi where I live. Fortunately I was at a quiet time and "only" waiting a couple of minutes (that's a long time in a suit when it's 40C!) but to say I was annoyed by it would be understating the case a bit. Why did I buy a card when I still have to buy a ticket?

So by the time I've paid that and the 20 Baht for a motorbike up my soi, I'm only 10-15 Baht short of a nice a/c taxi down to On Nut, and coming back I have the added bonus of a beer or two in the market.

Oh and one more thing. Apparently I can get a Rabbit Pass and this won't matter so much. And I can even use it on the MRT as well, which seems sensible. So why the hell didn't you tell me this when I bought your stupid, redundant BTS card this morning you jibbering little clot?

And to pre-empt the usual replies - Yes I could go home, but there's lots of reasons I live in Thailand, and one minor annoyance doesn't change them, or I'd have gone home ages ago. I work and pay taxes here, and use the BTS (at least I did until this week) so I have every dam_n right to complain.

Yes I speak Thai. I'm not 100% fluent but I can get by and understood their explanation of this absurd idea. I also topped my card up in Thai and could easily have understood someone telling me that I won't be able to use it.

Yeah, Punnawiti and Bang Chak have it the worst, to no real fault of your own. I think the previous poster was correct, he was saying there are 2 different investors (one for the extension, and another for the rest of the system) and they can't agree on a pricing scheme which would share the profits. Seems to me this is the type of thing you work out before construction, but what do I know.

It's sad because many people simply can't afford the way this is set up (essentially 75% more expensive on the smart/rabbit passes as the op mentioned), and this will in turn make it so the extension areas don't grow as much I would think.

Edited May 6, 2012 by meand

[ricklev]

Your topped up card is refundable with no hassle at all by handing it the cashier and asking for a refund. (Used to be that way....)

[welo]

Your topped up card is refundable with no hassle at all by handing it the cashier and asking for a refund. (Used to be that way....)

Well, that doesn't work for me I guess. I topped up the 30-day SmartPass at Thong Lor station and used my first ride to Bang Chack, where I realized that I have to pay the extra 15 Baht.

Of course the ticket officer at Thong Lor did not give any remark that the 30-day pass is not valid on the new extension.

@NBD

Did you buy a new 30-day SmartPass or did you top up your old card? I've read that BTS should have stopped selling the old SmartPass after 24th of April...

The whole thing is not a world crisis but it is annoying.

And I think complaining about this mess is a valid strategy to hopefully push the people responsible to fix the system. I mean I thought about posting on the web forum on the BTS homepage, but they don't even have an admin there who removes the zillion of spam posts...

[meand]

^I really have my hopes up this is just a temporary pricing scheme. I don't even care if it is 1 or 2 years when they change, as long as I know they will i'd be cool. But we don't at this point. I mean, at some point they will have to realize going from Bang Chak to Prom Pong (4 stops) costing 35 baht with a rabbit/smart pass while on nut to mo chit (16 stops) costs 20 baht is just ridiculous. I think they will be forced to pull their heads out at some point.

Lets sum it up for clarity:

On nut to Mo Chit = 16 stops -- Cost: 20 baht with card

Bang Chak to Prom Pong = 4 stops -- Cost: 35 baht with a card

So, you go 1/4 the distance (in terms of stops) and pay 75% more.

Edited May 6, 2012 by meand

[JVichitt]

These cost increases are just going to keep the BTS out of reach for poor Bangkokians.

The privately-owned company that runs the BTS refuses to add extra cars to an already crowded system. This company also invested in at least one condominium development. Maybe they are stiffing the general public to recover from any losses they took in that project.

[rheinwiese]

As I recall, initial fares were 15-40 baht and increased to 15-45 baht at some point in the last 5-6 years.

Small point, but actually the initial fare was 10 Baht minimum for 1 station (unless you were going between Ari and Saphan Khwai or Chong Nonsi and Surasak), and has recently gone up to 15 Baht. Maximum fare has always been 40 Baht (until now with this new extension charge).

Sorry to correct you, but the price for a single ticket Chong Nonsi - Surasak is already at 20 Baht.

IMHO not cheap for 1 stop.

[dantilley]

Sorry to correct you, but the price for a single ticket Chong Nonsi - Surasak is already at 20 Baht.

IMHO not cheap for 1 stop.

Yeah, I was referring to the original price though when it was first opened. Chong Nonsi - Surasak and Ari Saphan Khwai cost more because there was supposed to be a station built in between each of them, hence the price is as if you are going 2 stations, not 1.

[MaxLee]

BTS and their new Sukhumvit Extension "EXCLUSION" from the already existing 30-50 trip discount, which you have to make even by topping up with additional cash, is another nasty rip-off from BTS officials...

[planr]

These cost increases are just going to keep the BTS out of reach for poor Bangkokians.

The privately-owned company that runs the BTS refuses to add extra cars to an already crowded system. This company also invested in at least one condominium development. Maybe they are stiffing the general public to recover from any losses they took in that project.

There is one factually correct statement here - real estate development. Investing in real estate near stations is the only way for the company to generate real, significant profits. Fare box revenue alone won't do it and neither will the additional income from advertising, which they also control. Hong Kong's MTR model blazed the trail for capture land value near stations to fund service improvements. In fact, more than half of the MTR's revenue comes from real estate investment AND it is the only profitable rapid transit system in the world once all costs are taken into account.

As for "keeping costs high to keep the poor out." Can you honestly argue that based in fact? Rapid transit systems around the world are never designed to cater to everyone. Even in wealthy cities in developed countries, plenty of people use less costly buses to make their journeys rather than pay higher prices for faster rail transit.

And as for "refusing to add extra cars" to the system. There are at least 35 transets on order and more pending orders. The first are due to be delivered in August, assuming the manufacturing stays on schedule. Lead times from major manufacturers like Siemens, Alstom, Bombardier, etc typically average two years. If the BTS is guilty of anything in terms of under-serving its ridership, it is either 1) inaccurately forecasting demand from new extensions or 2) simply waiting too long to place new orders, perhaps both.

[welo]

As for "keeping costs high to keep the poor out." Can you honestly argue that based in fact? Rapid transit systems around the world are never designed to cater to everyone. Even in wealthy cities in developed countries, plenty of people use less costly buses to make their journeys rather than pay higher prices for faster rail transit.

small correction: "Even in SOME wealthy cities in developed countries..."

Others have a unified ticketing system where it doesn't matter which mode of transport you choose (subway, bus, tram), you will always pay the same price (per ride).

[planr]

As for "keeping costs high to keep the poor out." Can you honestly argue that based in fact? Rapid transit systems around the world are never designed to cater to everyone. Even in wealthy cities in developed countries, plenty of people use less costly buses to make their journeys rather than pay higher prices for faster rail transit.

small correction: "Even in SOME wealthy cities in developed countries..."

Others have a unified ticketing system where it doesn't matter which mode of transport you choose (subway, bus, tram), you will always pay the same price (per ride).

Do you have examples? I am interested to learn more. In my personal experience and professional work (I work in transport and urban development), while unified ticketing systems like the Octopus Card in HK and the EZLink card in Singapore do work on multiple modes (bus, train, etc), the fares are different for each mode, with buses almost always being the cheapest, at least for base fares.

[welo]

Well, I already gave you an example in a previous reply to one of your posts.

A single journey ticket in Vienna is 80 Baht (2 EUR), and you are allowed to switch between subway, buses, tramways and trains as often as you need to reach your destination. A one-day ticket (unlimited number of rides) is 170 Baht and for daily commuters there are other cheaper options.

Other cities in Austria have similar systems, but they don't have a subway Also, the tickets are not based on distance but per ride (at least in the inner city zone excluding outer suburbs).

I don't dispute that a subway (or skytrain) system is more expensive to build/operate than a bus based system though. I also understand that there is no way that a system like this would work in Bangkok at the moment.

Is a system like that in Vienna really the exception in 'wealthy western cities'?

[Nisa]

As for "keeping costs high to keep the poor out." Can you honestly argue that based in fact? Rapid transit systems around the world are never designed to cater to everyone. Even in wealthy cities in developed countries, plenty of people use less costly buses to make their journeys rather than pay higher prices for faster rail transit.

small correction: "Even in SOME wealthy cities in developed countries..."

Others have a unified ticketing system where it doesn't matter which mode of transport you choose (subway, bus, tram), you will always pay the same price (per ride).

Do you have examples? I am interested to learn more. In my personal experience and professional work (I work in transport and urban development), while unified ticketing systems like the Octopus Card in HK and the EZLink card in Singapore do work on multiple modes (bus, train, etc), the fares are different for each mode, with buses almost always being the cheapest, at least for base fares.

It has been a while but I thought when I was younger there were cities in the US that allow you to buy one pass that is good for a specific time period and you just get a transfer ticket when you get off each system to give to the next. I think San Francisco might be a bigger city that still does this ... I recall that they only thing the ticket wasn't good for was the trolley system.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Nisa

[planr]

To Welo and Nisa -

Many places around the world have single-trip fares (rather than being distance based) and sometimes they do include a transfer. For example, in Boston, you can buy a single-trip for the bus and get one free bus transfer or you can buy a single-trip fare on the train and get a free bus transfer (free train transfer across the lines as well). But you cannot buy a single trip bus ticket and get on the train without paying again.

San Francisco (MUNI) is similar in that you buy a single trip fare which is good for 90 minutes with one transfer amongst the MUNI system (buses, light rail, some trolleys). But if you want to use BART or the some of the cable cars you have to pay separate fares.

[welo]

For example, in Boston, you can buy a single-trip for the bus and get one free bus transfer or you can buy a single-trip fare on the train and get a free bus transfer (free train transfer across the lines as well).

So can you transfer from bus to bus on a normal single-trip ticket? Only once or multiple times?

I really miss the public transport system in Vienna. I guess Vienna is repeatedly in the top ten of The Most Liveable Cities for a good reason

The bangkok bus system is actually quite extensive - if it weren't for the unpredictability (waiting time, arrival time) and the heat (no A/C) I would use it more often.

I am actually one of those who wished that there were reserved lanes for public buses all over the city. That and equip all buses with A/C

Check out this neat online bus map of Bangkok: http://www.mapguidethailand.com/home/map?l=en&link=2 (Thinknet has a good printed Bangkok bus map as well).

[dddave]

To Welo and Nisa -

Many places around the world have single-trip fares (rather than being distance based) and sometimes they do include a transfer. For example, in Boston, you can buy a single-trip for the bus and get one free bus transfer or you can buy a single-trip fare on the train and get a free bus transfer (free train transfer across the lines as well). But you cannot buy a single trip bus ticket and get on the train without paying again.

San Francisco (MUNI) is similar in that you buy a single trip fare which is good for 90 minutes with one transfer amongst the MUNI system (buses, light rail, some trolleys). But if you want to use BART or the some of the cable cars you have to pay separate fares.

I was just in Boston for most of March and was told that there were no bus-to-bus transfers. I often used used the #66 from Harvard Sq. to So. Huntington, then changed to the #39 to JP. I asked several times and was always told "No free transfer." Curious.

[whybother]

Do you have examples? I am interested to learn more. In my personal experience and professional work (I work in transport and urban development), while unified ticketing systems like the Octopus Card in HK and the EZLink card in Singapore do work on multiple modes (bus, train, etc), the fares are different for each mode, with buses almost always being the cheapest, at least for base fares.

Melbourne (Aus) has a single ticket for use on trains, trams and buses. Basically, there are all day (& weekly, monthly etc) and 2 hour tickets. The city is divided into 2 (used to be 3) zones with zone 1 covering the inner and surrounding suburbs (and most of the tram network) and zone 2 covers the middle and outer suburbs. You can buy a single zone ticket or zone 1&2 ticket. This allows you to use any number of trains / trams / buses during the allotted time.