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Hollande Elected French President – Interior Min.


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Ok. I am 100% in favor of socialism....as long as I am on the receiving end, not the giving end.

Ahh yes you have just described Socialism to a T , you want to receive all the goodies but not contribute to them, nice one!laugh.png

As opposed to capitalism -- brutally exploit the masses as much as humanly possible and concentrate as much of the wealth (created by the exploited masses) as humanly possible in as small a number of elite people as humanly possible.
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Ok. I am 100% in favor of socialism....as long as I am on the receiving end, not the giving end.

Ahh yes you have just described Socialism to a T , you want to receive all the goodies but not contribute to them, nice one!laugh.png

As opposed to capitalism -- brutally exploit the masses as much as humanly possible and concentrate as much of the wealth (created by the exploited masses) as humanly possible in as small a number of elite people as humanly possible.

No doubt you live in North Korea were all people are equal eh,laugh.png
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Ok. I am 100% in favor of socialism....as long as I am on the receiving end, not the giving end.

Ahh yes you have just described Socialism to a T , you want to receive all the goodies but not contribute to them, nice one!laugh.png

As opposed to capitalism -- brutally exploit the masses as much as humanly possible and concentrate as much of the wealth (created by the exploited masses) as humanly possible in as small a number of elite people as humanly possible.

JT there is now over 16 million people in Europe who are not being "exploited" you must over the moon with this bit of good newslaugh.png
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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

Edited by Steely Dan
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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

Have you ever noticed how the left demand freedom of speech and expression ,and yet when others voice theirs who they do not agree with, they are shouted down in very short order as some sort of extremists , the putrid stench of Hypocrisy is almost unbearablelaugh.png
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Ok. I am 100% in favor of socialism....as long as I am on the receiving end, not the giving end.

Ahh yes you have just described Socialism to a T , you want to receive all the goodies but not contribute to them, nice one!laugh.png

As opposed to capitalism -- brutally exploit the masses as much as humanly possible and concentrate as much of the wealth (created by the exploited masses) as humanly possible in as small a number of elite people as humanly possible.

JT there is now over 16 million people in Europe who are not being "exploited" you must over the moon with this bit of good newslaugh.png

My point was satirical. Now we have two "extreme" definitions of capitalism and socialism (which to many equates as communism). What the masses in any country really want and can mostly benefit from is a middle path between these two extremes. Obviously people need incentives to work and succeed and just as obviously it is wrong to allow a small group of people to own almost everything.
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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

It looks like your talking to yourself as you don't address what I wrote and what you discuss has nothing to do with what I said.

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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

It looks like your talking to yourself as you don't address what I wrote and what you discuss has nothing to do with what I said.

I thought you implied that Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam ,why not Google up how many Muslim Country's are actively persecuting ,murdering, and desecrating their places of worship, Eagerly looking to your answer.
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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

It looks like your talking to yourself as you don't address what I wrote and what you discuss has nothing to do with what I said.

I thought you implied that Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam ,why not Google up how many Muslim Country's are actively persecuting ,murdering, and desecrating their places of worship, Eagerly looking to your answer.

my answer is to re-read my post. I do not imply anything, I make a point-blank statement.

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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

If you are going to make strident claims it would help to provide some supporting, credible evidence.

Your claim re 751 no go zones in France seems to come from Daniel Pipes (he of the view that "Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most..." National Review,1990) & Jihad Watch from Nov 2006.

Do you have anything else and anything more recent to back up your claim?

The 751 ZUS are actually French districts rated as more deprived in government listings, giving these zones a special focus. That mean a special effort will be made towards education, social housing, or other social matters. A special state allowance is awarded to the host towns, as well as a tax exemption for businesses in the designated areas. This is proving effective for employment, and quite popular with town officials, so there is some interest to get one of the town districts into the national scheme. Regarding law enforcement, governments (left and right alike) are taking great care to police every part of the country, because the subject of no-go areas is most often used to spark political controversy.

Also from der Spiegel March 2012, "According to the Israeli Ministry of Immigrant Absorption, about 2,000 French Jews are currently resettling in Israel each year". Jewish population in France is approx. 500,000 so that's a pretty small %. No one is saying that anti-semitism is not an issue in France, as is racism.

An interesting if dated piece on the FN's anti-semitic heritage. Interesting to note that voting numbers have barely budged since 1997.

And more from France 24, Dec 2011

Edited by folium
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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

you are certainly taken with fear-mongering. And so is the Gatestone Institute, although for them, I would characterize their statements about ZUS (your so-called no-go zones) as a bold-faced lie - or if I were to be more kind, an obvious mis-characterization... The French govt has not lost any control over these areas and certainly there is no where in France, let me say that again - there is no where in France - where the Gendarmes and the Police Nationale are afraid to go. Anyone who tries to tell you differently doesn't understand the French.

Now let's take one of your "zones" - Paris, 20th Arrondisement, Belleville - full of schools, restaurants, family businesses, apartments, and definitely what the French call a Quartier populaire (of the people, not to be confused with English "popular"). Muslim? not hardly - it is the Chinese district. No police? hardly, see them all the time. Dangerous for non-muslims? Well, tell the chinese immigrants, they obviously didn't get the memo....

Close by is another neighborhood with a diverse mix - both kosher butchers next to Arab butchers and a significant North / West African population. Again, shops, apartments, businesses, schools, etc, etc... oh, yes, almost forgot - the police have no problems going there either. Then there is Montreuil, same, same, ...

Not that France doesn't have problems, every country does. But you should be more careful about what information you repeat without any verification. Not everyone is going to tell you the truth. B)

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As an American, I understand the problems with religious fundamentalism / extremism very well.

But Christianity has nothing to fear from Islam, nor the inverse. It is only the groups of people who feed their intolerance with religion who cause problems.

And the FN is not about religion, but about racism.

Have you any idea how annoying it is, not to mention racist, to assume that other races than the majority one are themselves incapable of being racist. There are 751 no go zones in France, which non-Muslims are not safe and the police are routinely attacked when they enter them. Five million Muslims live in these zones over which the state has lost control. Then there is the French government comissionioned report which concluded the racism exhibited by Muslim pupils against Jewish pupils was at such a level that the latter could not be safely taught in French state schools, needless to say tens of thousands of Jews are leaving France and will soon be followed by other groups if the rot is allowed to continue.

Yet the left laughably dismisses those who protest against the war being carried out against their own culture as racists and xenophobes, all 17% of them based on the last election.

http://www.gatestone...lim-no-go-zones

If you are going to make strident claims it would help to provide some supporting, credible evidence.

Your claim re 751 no go zones in France seems to come from Daniel Pipes (he of the view that "Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most..." National Review,1990) & Jihad Watch from Nov 2006.

Do you have anything else and anything more recent to back up your claim?

The 751 ZUS are actually French districts rated as more deprived in government listings, giving these zones a special focus. That mean a special effort will be made towards education, social housing, or other social matters. A special state allowance is awarded to the host towns, as well as a tax exemption for businesses in the designated areas. This is proving effective for employment, and quite popular with town officials, so there is some interest to get one of the town districts into the national scheme. Regarding law enforcement, governments (left and right alike) are taking great care to police every part of the country, because the subject of no-go areas is most often used to spark political controversy.

Also from der Spiegel March 2012, "According to the Israeli Ministry of Immigrant Absorption, about 2,000 French Jews are currently resettling in Israel each year". Jewish population in France is approx. 500,000 so that's a pretty small %. No one is saying that anti-semitism is not an issue in France, as is racism.

An interesting if dated piece on the FN's anti-semitic heritage. Interesting to note that voting numbers have barely budged since 1997.

And more from France 24, Dec 2011

beat me by a minute

;)

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Thankfully, one right-winger's gone !!! I am hoping for the same fate for Merkel in Germany, Putin in Russia and Erdogan in Turkey.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Sarkozy the mastermind of the Libyan attacks that caused a lot of innocent people to get killed, caused Gaddafi to be lynched by a group of barbaric thugs and then left Libya with a whole set of questions about how its future's going to be.

And, his nationalist, right-wing rhetoric was getting too much to bear.

Of course Jem Jem you believe in Socialism ,Thats OK Cos I firmly believe in freedom of Political Choice ,and again of course you have cases of Socialism in different Country's were it has been an unbridled Success Story and not an unmitigated failure , and with respect maybe you can produce a few independent links to verify this ,looking forward to reading the links smile.png and in closing do you agree with the lefts idea's in France on how to bring the Economy forward? , Me?, I am never afraid to let my beliefs known to all and sundry, my forcast, Economic "meltdown" within 2 years!!.

Well, I shan't produce links that you asked for; for now, I'm too lazy to search for them but maybe later :)

By the way, I am not a socialist. I am more like a social democrat; but for me, I'd prefer to identify myself as internationalist and anti-fascist. Not all anti-fascists are socialists, you know.

We will just have to wait and see how France's economy will be in the coming years. Anyway, once again, I'll say that I am glad that Sarkozy's gone.

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The slow motion car crash is well underway. First Hollande's open top motorcade was caught in a freak cloudburst and he was soaked, then his private jet was struck by lightening. Meanwhile the bourgeoisie are heading for the exits.

http://www.thelocal.fr/3329/20120515/

On the day Socialist president Francois Hollande takes power, there are signs that wealthy French citizens are thinking about moving abroad to escape tough new tax rules.

A survey by London-based real estate agent Knight Frank recently reported it saw inquiries about expensive London properties from French residents spike by 20 percent.

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The slow motion car crash is well underway. First Hollande's open top motorcade was caught in a freak cloudburst and he was soaked, then his private jet was struck by lightening. Meanwhile the bourgeoisie are heading for the exits.

http://www.thelocal.fr/3329/20120515/

On the day Socialist president Francois Hollande takes power, there are signs that wealthy French citizens are thinking about moving abroad to escape tough new tax rules.

A survey by London-based real estate agent Knight Frank recently reported it saw inquiries about expensive London properties from French residents spike by 20 percent.

Dan ,Socialism is the politics of Failure and Envy ,they abhor the rich so how hard they have worked to get their wealth ,"soaking the rich", must have been very popular with many of the electorate ,problem here is most of the rich won't stay too long before they are hit by the "deluge" just like the mid/ late 70s in The UK when Callaghan said he was going to squeeze the rich till the "pips squeaked" .
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The slow motion car crash is well underway. First Hollande's open top motorcade was caught in a freak cloudburst and he was soaked, then his private jet was struck by lightening. Meanwhile the bourgeoisie are heading for the exits.

http://www.thelocal.fr/3329/20120515/

On the day Socialist president Francois Hollande takes power, there are signs that wealthy French citizens are thinking about moving abroad to escape tough new tax rules.

A survey by London-based real estate agent Knight Frank recently reported it saw inquiries about expensive London properties from French residents spike by 20 percent.

Dan ,Socialism is the politics of Failure and Envy ,they abhor the rich so how hard they have worked to get their wealth ,"soaking the rich", must have been very popular with many of the electorate ,problem here is most of the rich won't stay too long before they are hit by the "deluge" just like the mid/ late 70s in The UK when Callaghan said he was going to squeeze the rich till the "pips squeaked" .

Socialism is the politics of solidarity and caring. As there are many wealthy socialists, abhorring and soaking the rich is hardly an accurate characterization of socialists.

I admit, however, that there are many greedy capitalists who abhor socialism, ie : solidarity with, and caring about fellow citizens.

;)

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The slow motion car crash is well underway. First Hollande's open top motorcade was caught in a freak cloudburst and he was soaked, then his private jet was struck by lightening. Meanwhile the bourgeoisie are heading for the exits.

http://www.thelocal.fr/3329/20120515/

On the day Socialist president Francois Hollande takes power, there are signs that wealthy French citizens are thinking about moving abroad to escape tough new tax rules.

A survey by London-based real estate agent Knight Frank recently reported it saw inquiries about expensive London properties from French residents spike by 20 percent.

Dan ,Socialism is the politics of Failure and Envy ,they abhor the rich so how hard they have worked to get their wealth ,"soaking the rich", must have been very popular with many of the electorate ,problem here is most of the rich won't stay too long before they are hit by the "deluge" just like the mid/ late 70s in The UK when Callaghan said he was going to squeeze the rich till the "pips squeaked" .

Socialism is the politics of solidarity and caring. As there are many wealthy socialists, abhorring and soaking the rich is hardly an accurate characterization of socialists.

I admit, however, that there are many greedy capitalists who abhor socialism, ie : solidarity with, and caring about fellow citizens.

wink.png

So you reckon that the Socialist Government In the UK in the 70s was a success ?, I suggest you Google up the "Winter of discontent" were Inflation Spiked at 26.9% and averaged 16,were the top layer Income tax was 97% which led to "the brain drain" ,were the dead were not buried, were there was thousands of tonnes of rotting garbage left uncollected ,were pickets stood outside hospitals and in many cases only emergency's were admitted , were the IMF refused to lend us any more money ,this culminated in the Labour party being wiped out at the GE thanks in no part to the left wing Unions . Edited by Colin Yai
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- deleted due to quote limits -

Socialism is the politics of solidarity and caring. As there are many wealthy socialists, abhorring and soaking the rich is hardly an accurate characterization of socialists.

I admit, however, that there are many greedy capitalists who abhor socialism, ie : solidarity with, and caring about fellow citizens.

wink.png

So you reckon that the Socialist Government In the UK in the 70s was a success ?, I suggest you Google up the "Winter of discontent" were Inflation Spiked at 26.9% and averaged 16,were the top layer Income tax was 97% which led to "the brain drain" ,were the dead were not buried, were there was thousands of tonnes of rotting garbage left uncollected ,were pickets stood outside hospitals and in many cases only emergency's were admitted , were the IMF refused to lend us any more money ,this culminated in the Labour party being wiped out at the GE thanks in no part to the left wing Unions .

an amazing leap from what I said to something completely irrelevant. Good for you.

As I am not a British subject, I really don't care too much about the UK gov't in the 70's. We Americans (with the help of our French friends, of course) took care of the King and his minions 200 years earlier. ;)

As for the state of the economy etc in the 70s, it was the same in that decidedly non-socialist country, the USA.

But a nice try, anyway.

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- deleted due to quote limits -

Socialism is the politics of solidarity and caring. As there are many wealthy socialists, abhorring and soaking the rich is hardly an accurate characterization of socialists.

I admit, however, that there are many greedy capitalists who abhor socialism, ie : solidarity with, and caring about fellow citizens.

wink.png

So you reckon that the Socialist Government In the UK in the 70s was a success ?, I suggest you Google up the "Winter of discontent" were Inflation Spiked at 26.9% and averaged 16,were the top layer Income tax was 97% which led to "the brain drain" ,were the dead were not buried, were there was thousands of tonnes of rotting garbage left uncollected ,were pickets stood outside hospitals and in many cases only emergency's were admitted , were the IMF refused to lend us any more money ,this culminated in the Labour party being wiped out at the GE thanks in no part to the left wing Unions .

an amazing leap from what I said to something completely irrelevant. Good for you.

As I am not a British subject, I really don't care too much about the UK gov't in the 70's. We Americans (with the help of our French friends, of course) took care of the King and his minions 200 years earlier. wink.png

As for the state of the economy etc in the 70s, it was the same in that decidedly non-socialist country, the USA.

But a nice try, anyway.

That was the last time we had a truly Socialist Govt in the UK which was far from careing it was a total disaster The one under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown was hardly Socialist in its make up, even so it was far from a winner ,its a bit difficult for you to make a comment as you have never ever lived under the red flag as I have. Edited by Colin Yai
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I believe this thread is about France.

Alas, three time alas, most of the previous poster do know nothing about France (wonder if most of them can even place it on the map).

A bit a history, some of the best ministers France had the last 30 years were communist, I think about one specificaly who not only DID NOT restrain the truckers freedom; but in fact fought as much as it was possible for a human being to uphold and eventually extend said truckers freedom.

So it is easy to say those who earn shitload of money will suffer; but what about those who work and do not even earn enought for surviving?

I am sorry, but I do not wish my country (beloved country) to copy the US of Norther America, and have daily 12 (twelve) millions of kids that do not have enought to eat. If to avoid that there is the need to tax Mr Schueller' daughter (the heiress of L'Oreal), so be it, who cares?

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Your post is partially correct. A lot of people don't know much about French politics. You are wrong about people not knowing where France is. It's that big one right in the middle of the map, next to the water!

Most people I've met in Asia know more about France than they do about any other European country. They know about the food, the wine, the capital and the Eiffel Tower.

When it comes to French politics, I think you have to be French to have a good understanding of that.

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The slow motion car crash is well underway. First Hollande's open top motorcade was caught in a freak cloudburst and he was soaked, then his private jet was struck by lightening. Meanwhile the bourgeoisie are heading for the exits.

http://www.thelocal.fr/3329/20120515/

On the day Socialist president Francois Hollande takes power, there are signs that wealthy French citizens are thinking about moving abroad to escape tough new tax rules.

A survey by London-based real estate agent Knight Frank recently reported it saw inquiries about expensive London properties from French residents spike by 20 percent.

Just to make the point that French moving to the UK is nothing new see below:

Also interesting that at least those quoted black French citizens feel more comfortable in the UK than France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18234930

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The slow motion car crash is well underway. First Hollande's open top motorcade was caught in a freak cloudburst and he was soaked, then his private jet was struck by lightening. Meanwhile the bourgeoisie are heading for the exits.

http://www.thelocal.fr/3329/20120515/

On the day Socialist president Francois Hollande takes power, there are signs that wealthy French citizens are thinking about moving abroad to escape tough new tax rules.

A survey by London-based real estate agent Knight Frank recently reported it saw inquiries about expensive London properties from French residents spike by 20 percent.

Just to make the point that French moving to the UK is nothing new see below:

Also interesting that at least those quoted black French citizens feel more comfortable in the UK than France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-18234930

I have no problems at all with cultural enrichment from the French, who I quite like in spite of their stubbornness. The UK can also learn a bit about food and wine too so you won't find me reading websites called Beaches of Hastings moaning about the latest influx of French nationals.

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