Regents Residences

[IndoRealty]

What I've tried to argue is that if they are so incompetent/unprofessional as to choose the name/concept "the Trendy", then can you trust their competence in developing the condo itself? The answer to that is there for all to see.

Trendy is not actively marketed toward foreigners. I have seen more Trendy ads on Thai language newspapers than Bangkok Post or the Nation. To most Thai, the name Trendy is very acceptable and very trendy indeed. Why dont you ask your local friends/acquiantances whether the name Trendy for a condo is acceptable to him/her? Thai condo buyers could care less even if the word Trendy is written Trendie or Trendi or if the condo is named whatever (it is only a name). What's important is the condo is located close to BTS (only 1 minute walk) and it is still affordable.

But the good news is Regent's price has gone up again

From the initial price of

Bt85,000/sqm (6th Floor) - Bt100,500/sqm (37th Floor)

to

Bt99,000/sqm (6th Floor) - Bt114,500/sqm (37th Floor)

Still though, Bangkok condo is cheaper than Shanghai's (average Bt160,000/sqm) and for an equivalent development like the Regent Residences if it were in Shanghai, it would fetch Bt200,000/sqm and higher.

An Indian from Mumbai recently bought the last 3 units of Athenee Residences, for which he paid close to Bt60million. He thought that prices of condos in Bangkok is a lot cheaper than those in Mumbai for a comparable quality.

Edited January 20, 2006 by IndoRealty

[backflip]

"Still though, Bangkok condo is cheaper than Shanghai's (average Bt160,000/sqm) and for an equivalent development like the Regent Residences if it were in Shanghai, it would fetch Bt200,000/sqm and higher."

Baloney. I live in Shanghai, and the "average" Shanghai condo is substantially cheaper than 160,000THB/sqm.

[IndoRealty]

"Still though, Bangkok condo is cheaper than Shanghai's (average Bt160,000/sqm) and for an equivalent development like the Regent Residences if it were in Shanghai, it would fetch Bt200,000/sqm and higher."

Baloney. I live in Shanghai, and the "average" Shanghai condo is substantially cheaper than 160,000THB/sqm.

If you are talking about area like Hong Qiao yes many regular apartments can be had for USD1500/sqm or so, but many of such apartments lack gym, sauna, lap pool.

I am quoting the report made by Colliers dd April 2005 for luxury Grade A+ apartments in Shanghai (cost USD4,000/sqm and rental yield of USD30/sqm according to the report). Perhaps now with pressure from government the price is slightly down. Just last Dec, I went to see some apartments in Liujiazhui district with a nice Wai Tan view costs more USD5,000++/sqm, likewise those 4 tower apartments next to XinTianDi. with a view of Pudong, high floors of which, command more than USD5,000/sqm.

I have yet to encounter a 5-star international chain hotel residences in Shanghai. Is there any? like the Four Seasons Residences or The Residences at the Ritz Carlton.

Edited January 20, 2006 by IndoRealty

[amarka]

Hello Indorealty,

thank you - and everyone else for the very valuable comments you have made. you really seem to know your stuff... not that the other dont have valid comments, but you seem to have hte edge.

another price rise? .. well someone is confident..

my contract definatly says completion December 2006. in fact i was sent another copy by post because i thought i had mislaid my original and it also says December 2006.

Regents have now contacted me and asked to see me next month to discuss the completion date...lets see what happens..

what does Thai law say about this.

apart from the delay i am happy so far

thanks again

amarka

What I've tried to argue is that if they are so incompetent/unprofessional as to choose the name/concept "the Trendy", then can you trust their competence in developing the condo itself? The answer to that is there for all to see.

Trendy is not actively marketed toward foreigners. I have seen more Trendy ads on Thai language newspapers than Bangkok Post or the Nation. To most Thai, the name Trendy is very acceptable and very trendy indeed. Why dont you ask your local friends/acquiantances whether the name Trendy for a condo is acceptable to him/her? Thai condo buyers could care less even if the word Trendy is written Trendie or Trendi or if the condo is named whatever (it is only a name). What's important is the condo is located close to BTS (only 1 minute walk) and it is still affordable.

But the good news is Regent's price has gone up again

From the initial price of

Bt85,000/sqm (6th Floor) - Bt100,500/sqm (37th Floor)

to

Bt99,000/sqm (6th Floor) - Bt114,500/sqm (37th Floor)

Still though, Bangkok condo is cheaper than Shanghai's (average Bt160,000/sqm) and for an equivalent development like the Regent Residences if it were in Shanghai, it would fetch Bt200,000/sqm and higher.

An Indian from Mumbai recently bought the last 3 units of Athenee Residences, for which he paid close to Bt60million. He thought that prices of condos in Bangkok is a lot cheaper than those in Mumbai for a comparable quality.

[sfokevin]

Amarka,

I have a contract with Sansiri for a unit in their Baan Sansiri 31 with completion date of September 2007. My contract has a clause that gives me .01% reduction in the selling price for every day the project is delayed... Does your contract have any such clause? Also the lack of a return email should not be taken as ominous... In my condo search I found many developers who NEVER seem to answer their emails - RR included...

[steveromagnino]

Amarka,

I have a contract with Sansiri for a unit in their Baan Sansiri 31 with completion date of September 2007. My contract has a clause that gives me .01% reduction in the selling price for every day the project is delayed... Does your contract have any such clause? Also the lack of a return email should not be taken as ominous... In my condo search I found many developers who NEVER seem to answer their emails - RR included...

Sansiri have a very solid reputation among Thais; how have you found their service Sfokevin?

Amarka - hope all works out well, it seems like they are at least diong something to the site when I went past yesterday, so that is somewhat promising. I still think if you can wriggle out, now is the time to do so; see what they say. There are deals to be had around town with some other buildings and some of these will be perhaps more popular with the local market compared to an on the main road property; hard to say until the Regent is finished and we can see if they deliver what they have promised of course...on paper looks great but.....

[sfokevin]

Amarka,

I have a contract with Sansiri for a unit in their Baan Sansiri 31 with completion date of September 2007. My contract has a clause that gives me .01% reduction in the selling price for every day the project is delayed... Does your contract have any such clause? Also the lack of a return email should not be taken as ominous... In my condo search I found many developers who NEVER seem to answer their emails - RR included...

Sansiri have a very solid reputation among Thais; how have you found their service Sfokevin?

Amarka - hope all works out well, it seems like they are at least diong something to the site when I went past yesterday, so that is somewhat promising. I still think if you can wriggle out, now is the time to do so; see what they say. There are deals to be had around town with some other buildings and some of these will be perhaps more popular with the local market compared to an on the main road property; hard to say until the Regent is finished and we can see if they deliver what they have promised of course...on paper looks great but.....

The people at Sansiri have been most cordial and professional. They offer complete after sale maintenance of the building and priority showing of future developments. I know I am paying more than market (I think a steal at 100K/sm) for my space but I was not looking for a deal or investment but a nice quiet place in the city for me and my partner. And I half expect that my unit will not be completed and decorated in the stated time.

Edited February 9, 2006 by sfokevin

[Barry06]

I'm a teacher looking for a condo in a business area and personally found that

the Regent Residences is in an ideal location.

I was impressed with the concept and location of The Regent Residences so

I visited the Sales Office at The Regent Residences and found the staff very professional to deal with. Its close to the BTS and links with the MRT.

It has a good reputation being in the same vicinity of The Regent Bangkok Hotel, which makes it convenient for residents to access the hotel facilities. The price is also very reasonable.

[backflip]

"My contract has a clause that gives me .01% reduction in the selling price for every day the project is delayed."

So, if it's 3 years late, you get a whopping 10% discount. Oh boy.

[susah_sih]

I'm a teacher looking for a condo in a business area and personally found that

the Regent Residences is in an ideal location.

I was impressed with the concept and location of The Regent Residences so

I visited the Sales Office at The Regent Residences and found the staff very professional to deal with. Its close to the BTS and links with the MRT.

It has a good reputation being in the same vicinity of The Regent Bangkok Hotel, which makes it convenient for residents to access the hotel facilities. The price is also very reasonable.

yes, indeed. one of the strong points: the condo is located on the hotel compound. grande asset has every incentive to make the whole entire complex look good as their hotel business is at stake. so even if regent's contract will expire 20 years down the road. it is still a hotel complex, and so the whole complex will need to be maintained well if it were to retain its 5 star ratings.

maintenance is a problem in thailand. people in thailand are eager to build buildings but are less eager to maintain them. thai have tendencies of letting things to get broke before they are fixed, if ever. they also like to build many infrastructures such as elevators but they dont run all of them (to save money; why dont they sell the elevators instead even to earn money)

i also like the sleek model of the building. no balconies. balconies are often misused. people use balconies to dry clothes and put leftover things; even putting plants on balconies tend to make the whole building look ugly and completely different than what the architects have pictured it. moreover with bangkok being a dusty and polluted city, you hardly enjoy balcony. having balcony is more of labor work of cleaning than enjoying it. even some people might even use it to end their lives

regent residences is the first of an international chain hotel residences to ever exist in thailand. athenee residences on the other hand is yet internationally known, afterall there are no more than 3 athenee hotels in the world; owners of athenee brands: charoen and the athenee owner in paris are not keen in developing the athnee brand unlike carlson which owns the regent brand (there will be more regent hotels in the future). also there will be a number of regent residences in north america, regent residences in bal harbour, winter park orlando, boston, etc. regent hotels will re-emerge in asia. china will have 3 regent hotels before the olympic. the first one in shanghai has just been opened; it is so luxurious

i can see that the whole strip around regent bangkok will become more tidy in the future. already with chuwit park, no one is allowed to sell in front of the park. regent, sofitel and hip hotels, all in the neighboring, will eliminate much of the street vendors and hopefully the street prostitutes, but then again some people like it; it comes quite handy to have them around

"My contract has a clause that gives me .01% reduction in the selling price for every day the project is delayed."

So, if it's 3 years late, you get a whopping 10% discount. Oh boy.

this is for the regent residences? how come i didnt get this clause

could u share with us the paragraph that grants u to price reduction if the regent residences is delayed?

[susah_sih]

The people at Sansiri have been most cordial and professional. They offer complete after sale maintenance of the building and priority showing of future developments. I know I am paying more than market (I think a steal at 100K/sm) for my space but I was not looking for a deal or investment but a nice quiet place in the city for me and my partner. And I half expect that my unit will not be completed and decorated in the stated time.

for 100k/sqm, i would rather choose regent residences. regent has more design values being designed by WATG www.watg.com sansiri uses internal architect and they copy the same design for many of their other developments. have u seen that many of sansiri condos are indistinguishable one to the others? more over furnishings for sansiri condo isnt that great. but then again, every one has their own taste

Edited February 13, 2006 by susah_sih

[steveromagnino]

The people at Sansiri have been most cordial and professional. They offer complete after sale maintenance of the building and priority showing of future developments. I know I am paying more than market (I think a steal at 100K/sm) for my space but I was not looking for a deal or investment but a nice quiet place in the city for me and my partner. And I half expect that my unit will not be completed and decorated in the stated time.

for 100k/sqm, i would rather choose regent residences. regent has more design values being designed by WATG www.watg.com sansiri uses internal architect and they copy the same design for many of their other developments. have u seen that many of sansiri condos are indistinguishable one to the others? more over furnishings for sansiri condo isnt that great. but then again, every one has their own taste

We all can have an opinion, and mine is that Sansiri is one of the safest developers to choose to buy from.

Sansiri is often less than 100k/sq m; their developments are IMHO goign to be more sought after by Thais and the locations are carefully chosen to not be on the main road in the situation that the Regent is in; which I believe will probably be more appealing to foreigners.

I would hardly say the Regent has more 'design values'; there are some very clever innovations in some of the Sansiri developments such as the lifestyle balconies; and while I agree that the balconies on a main road like Suk would be problematic, it certainly need not be the case for developments in the sois.

We also develop property, and there is a LOT of skeptcism about The Regent development, simply because it is not finished so we cannot see it. The issue of location is a major one, and I hope like you that this new project will help clean up the area.

[sfokevin]

A big flashy building with big flashy tenants that come and go are not our style. We chose Baan Sansiri 31 for its quiet (just over 100 units in 25 story building) and understated style on a quiet soi. We bought the top floor (Not penthouse... but its still available - I'm thinking ;>) for the price of a mid-floor somewhere else - and their designers will customize the interior to our tastes...

[alive555]

problem with grande is that they need 30%++ sales to get it moving and they cant get there, I thouroughly expect this to become an NPL, any monies you paid up will be lost, sorry sad but true.also the sale pitch is an outright lie, and CBRE is a bucket shop who wouldnt care less about your deposit only their commission.

[backflip]

"sansiri uses internal architect and they copy the same design for many of their other developments. have u seen that many of sansiri condos are indistinguishable one to the others"

So true. They've been building these 8-story developments as fill-ins. They have as much attraction as a motel. Too, the construction is very poor. Starting with walls with cracks that extend from one corner to another, and ending with a corrugated metal roof, these are the slums of the next decade.

[steveromagnino]

"sansiri uses internal architect and they copy the same design for many of their other developments. have u seen that many of sansiri condos are indistinguishable one to the others"

So true. They've been building these 8-story developments as fill-ins. They have as much attraction as a motel. Too, the construction is very poor. Starting with walls with cracks that extend from one corner to another, and ending with a corrugated metal roof, these are the slums of the next decade.

No. They are building 8 storeys due to zoning. Same as us.

They have a reputation of looking after their buildings pretty well; please let me know the ones that are cracking; that I HAVE to see for myself to believe - I would be most curious if it is true.

Given the prices, there is no way these will be slums; also Sansiri have already lasted through the crash anyway; and you don't see any of their previous projects becoming slums; actually they hold their resale values really well.

And what project/developer do you recommend?

[charles]

We all can have an opinion, and mine is that Sansiri is one of the safest developers to choose to buy from.

We also develop property, and there is a LOT of skeptcism about The Regent development, simply because it is not finished so we cannot see it.

I really wish for their own sakes people would listen to sensible and well informed advice like the above.

There are a few people on here who have apparently put down their money on the Regents project who are having a go at people with sceptical opinions, took some stick myself a bit earlier on this thread.

The scepticism, in my opinion, is well intended and well founded. It is surely instructive that projects by developers with a solid reputation and record like Sansiri are favored by well heeled Thais while the Regents has not done well with such people. Personally, I find it hard to believe that these well heeled Thais are stupid and know the local scene less well than foreigners, many of whom on this thread seem to have limited knowledge of Bangkok.

It is also instructive that Grande Asset do not have a clause in their contract regarding penalties for late completion. And what a suprise the Regent and the Trendy next door are going to be completed well behind the original schedule, assuming they are completed at all.

So let's say it nice and simple. It has happened before and WILL happen again. Real estate projects in Thailand are not always completed. And sometimes when they are completed they are well below the original concept/specification. Look at that big condo complex in central Pratunam where constuction is slowing dragging on for ever as they constantly try to find the necessary funding. In my opinion, there is a genuine risk of this with the Regent (and the Trendy). They are a pretty dodgy company and clearly underfunded. (Talking of dodgy companies it is perhaps instructive that the bank supposedly backing the Regent is Krung Thai). Steve has also alluded to the solid history of Sansiri, well what about Grande Asset? It may be a "new" company but the people behind it are not new, they've been in real estate before, what is their record?

All in all, for anyone who likes the Regent development (on paper), surely it is best to wait to see it completed before putting any money down. You will not miss the boat! There will be units available, either direct or sell-ons from pre-bookers. No problem! It's possible, although by no means certain, you might pay a small premium for this; however this is surely worthwhile when offset against the real risks of non-completion or not turning out as hoped. Also while you wait for 3 years or whatever your deposit could be earning interest elsewhere!

[IndoRealty]

It is amazing how some people are keen in making unfounded and baseless comments about the Grande Asset as if with authoritative knowledge, when at the same time, one can easily find reliable information from an authoritative source such as the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET).

http://www.set.or.th/en/index.html

Ticker is GRAND

In particular as of today Feb. 15. the following transactions should have been completed: Two groups of investors, one being Norwegian, owners of Thoresen shipping and the other the Bulakul family who invests in a variety of listed companies in Thailand, have plunged Bt260 million into Grande Asset. I am sure the Norwegian and the Bulakul family are smarter than average Joe and Jane, having amassed quite significant wealth and they may have more info as to why they are willing to buy Grande Asset share at Bt2.6/each, subscribing to 100 million shares of the company. Would anyone suggest that their money is easy money and they would be more than willing to flush it into a sinking company?

On the other hand, several other property developers (LPN and owner of a hotel in Yaowarat to name a few) who failed to acquire the Regent land when it was made available for sale in 2004 by the owner of Ambassador Hotel, are still very much keen in acquiring the land. Naturally, it is their wishful thinking to see that Grand Asset fails, so that they can have a second chance to obtain that very much coveted piece of land.

The following is the letter from the company to the SET

[/font]

***********************************************************

February 10, 2006

The President

The Stock Exchange of Thailand

Re: Resolution of the Board of Directors' Meeting No. 1/2006

Dear Sir,

On behalf of the Grande Asset Development Public Company Limited, I would like inform you of the resolution of the Board of Directors' Meeting No. 1/2006 held on February 10, 2006 as follows;

The Board of Directors approved to sell the increase of 100,000,000 shares (One Hundred Million) as determined during the Meeting of the Shareholders No. 2/2005 which was held on August 26, 2006. The shares will be distributed to 4 selected persons which are Mr. Frode Teigen, entitles for 25,000,000 shares, Mr. Ole Teigen, entitles for 25,000,000 shares, Bethleham International Limited, entitles for 30,000,000 shares and Miss Varinthorn Bulakul, entitles for 20,000,000 at Baht 2.60 (Two Baht Sixty Satang) per share. The total share value is Baht 260,000,000 (Two Hundred Sixty Million Baht) which the payment is due during February 13-17, 2006.

Sincerely yours,

Pongphan Sampawakoop

Chairman & CEO

***************************************************************

Edited February 15, 2006 by IndoRealty

[IndoRealty]

The Teigen brothers may have bought more Grande Asset's shares through nominees.

They now own close to 24% of Raimon land.

They are bullish on these two companies.

[backflip]

steve,

You commented to my posting about Sansiri buidlins condos as "fill-ins" and you replied with: "No. They are building 8 storeys due to zoning. Same as us."

I was using the word "fill-in" as a description referring to constructing buildings in a mature Bangkok neighborhood, on a small piece of land, and not the height. I understand that the height limit is 8-stories, but not your comment "same as us".

Who cares if Thais like the look and feel of a motel? I don't.

[susah_sih]

Sansiri & its groups of companies including Natural Park have a bad reputation at building maintenance. Take a look at Mercury Tower which is their own building and now it is in such a sad condition. The Mercury Tower was then one of the most expensive building ever constructed in Thailand on a prime location at the corner of Langsuan and Ploenchit. It is renamed Platinum though now in their website: http://www.naturalpark.co.th/EN/property_p...lio_office.html

So if they dont even maintained their own office building well; it's difficult how they would even maintain others' buildings well.

On the other hand Grande Asset has renovated its old Grand Pacific hotel which was built much earlier than Mercury Tower and now this hotel was restored to its grandeur to become Grande Westin Sukhumvit.

steveromagnino, just curious which property company, are you involved in? You mentioned that your company is one of the best properties firm in Thailand on a number posts.

"sansiri uses internal architect and they copy the same design for many of their other developments. have u seen that many of sansiri condos are indistinguishable one to the others"

So true. They've been building these 8-story developments as fill-ins. They have as much attraction as a motel. Too, the construction is very poor. Starting with walls with cracks that extend from one corner to another, and ending with a corrugated metal roof, these are the slums of the next decade.

No. They are building 8 storeys due to zoning. Same as us.

They have a reputation of looking after their buildings pretty well; please let me know the ones that are cracking; that I HAVE to see for myself to believe - I would be most curious if it is true.

Given the prices, there is no way these will be slums; also Sansiri have already lasted through the crash anyway; and you don't see any of their previous projects becoming slums; actually they hold their resale values really well.

And what project/developer do you recommend?

[susah_sih]

Sansiri have a very solid reputation among Thais; how have you found their service Sfokevin?

Actually N-Park (Sansiri's parent company) is in financial difficulty; just last year several banks classified loans to N-Park and its group companies as NPL. N-Park was in financial difficulty even during condo sales boom of 2005

Here is excerpt from Feb 12, 2005 article on Bangkok Post

"Cash strapped Natural Park in talks with new investors"

The ailing property developer Natural Park Plc is negotiating with a handful of new Thai and foreign investor groups to become strategic partners to help ease the company's financial troubles.

N-Park's troubles developed last year after the company was unable to issue new debentures in Hong Kong, leading to a default on 1.7 billion baht worth of loans owed to Krung Thai Bank (KTB).

And from Business Days newspaper

NATURAL Park Plc (N-Park) said it has to postpone the repayment date of a 1.698 billion baht debt it owes to Krung Thai Bank Plc (KTB) by 180 days from the originally set November 24 as it could not issue convertible debentures to raise fresh capital for the debt repayment as planned.

In its report submitted to the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET), N-Park pointed out that the failure in its debentures issuance scheme was caused by the current economic situation and news reports on N-Park, which have resulted in serious impacts on the company’s share price.

“Our management is now trying to explain the real situation to KTB. We want to ask for permission from the creditor to allow us to postpone the debt repayment date,” N-Park said in its statement.

According to the company’s statement, N-Park had earlier spent 200 million baht for repaying part of the debt it owes to KTB and the outstanding debt with the bank now stands at 1.698 billion baht.

An informed source said that N-Park’s assets put as collateral for KTB’s loans are ordinary shares in Sansiri Plc (SIRI), Pacific Assets Plc (PA), Syntech Construction Plc (Syntech) and Finansa Plc (FNS).

The source added that other collateral includes investment units of BoA Apartment One property fund and land plots in Bang Krachao sub-district, the total value of which, as of November 11, 2004, was estimated at 2.735 billion baht, or about 161 percent of the outstanding debt principal.

N-Park shares yesterday went down by 0.04 baht to close at 0.90 baht apiece

Edited February 19, 2006 by susah_sih

[steveromagnino]

steveromagnino, just curious which property company, are you involved in? You mentioned that your company is one of the best properties firm in Thailand on a number posts.

And what project/developer do you recommend?

I have not to my recollection ever made such a comment. Please cut and paste where I made this. I am however yes, working in this industry, and my comments are made merely as a participant in this market, and are therefore not representative of the company i work for, and I make no mention of my that company here.

If you mean the comment....

'Then you have several good developers (including us I suppose) who for the most part run on time, deliver on spec, and mostly run a tight ship. Sansiri, Noble, LPN, Asia Properties all have as good a reputation as the same sorts of companies where I used to live in NZ (where it is almost always the case that projects are finished behind time and sometimes under spec.'

- hardly the same as one of the best..... just a statement of opinion and I would stand by it. Good is hardly 'the best'. And this is ONE comment!!! where are 'number of posts?'

Your comment of Natural park being in difficulty is a little disengenous, given that while NP may hold just under 25% of Sansiri, a rating company like TRIS has no problem rating them at BBB stable; and the management involvement of NP is fairly uncertain anyway. There are plenty of parent companies who end up selling companies or parts belonging to them due to difficulty, I am sure Sansiri has the mgt expertise to run themselves without the NP clowns. Anyway, the shares they own in Sansiri were offered as collateral in the loans, and so what for Sansiri if they end up with another anchor shareholder....

When this project reaches 80% sales, have most of the building complete and I can walk through it with my friends, then we can appraise it as a brilliant building or not as the case may be and consider buying.

I am not imaginative as all that to know how it might turn out, and whether it will be on time, so until then I'll stick to developers with many developments to their name, because at least there is output to look at.

And no... I have nothing to do with Sansiri or any of the other companies named above, I would not be that unprofessional to push something I do myself

steve,

You commented to my posting about Sansiri buidlins condos as "fill-ins" and you replied with: "No. They are building 8 storeys due to zoning. Same as us."

I was using the word "fill-in" as a description referring to constructing buildings in a mature Bangkok neighborhood, on a small piece of land, and not the height. I understand that the height limit is 8-stories, but not your comment "same as us".

Who cares if Thais like the look and feel of a motel? I don't.

By this I mean that the company I have been working for ALSO builds 8 storey buildings due to the same zoning issue for Sansiri. Not whether they look like motels or not :-) That's up to the tastes of the buyers.

For a property developer, I would have thought that relying on foreign buyers alone would cut the potential market of the market significantly. There are some developments that look like motels and some that don't; however I think you'll see the Thai developers who are astute coming up with better designs in future, and my guess is that Sansiri will be doing a new project VERY soon using external architects to get away from any possible feeling of being 'motel' like. With a solid reputation that stretches back years Thai people like them. The sharemarket likes them. Foreign investors like them. My friends who have bought many units in their developments like them. They are holding too much stock, and they know what they did up to now needs tweaking with a tougher market, so I expect you'll see more developments from them in the nicer design category in future.

And they will get both Thais and foreigners buying their units. Seems fair enough to me.

If we want to know what sort of company this Grande Asset company is, let's review how each of their 124 Comm press releases starts.... 'Grande Asset Development Plc., Thailand?s leading property and hotel developer, announces its busin....' leading property and hotel developer???! really?? So how many projects do they have on the go?

'Grand Asset Development Plc. is Thailand?s leading property and hotel developer with 8 projects as follows: Westin Grande Sukumvit Hotel, Crowne Plaza Hotel, The Regent Bangkok Hotel, Sheraton Hua Hin Resort, Four Points Sheraton Hotel, Hua Hin Blue Lagoon resort condominiums and Island Villas, The Regent Residences and The Trendy.'

That's not a huge number of projects and a fair few of these ones are on paper, and not complete.

Hmmm....maybe it isn't about completed project, so maybe revenue will tell us a better story... a year for year comparison of revenue... Grande Asset Dev = 893million baht in revenue 2004... Sansiri same year 6,645million baht. LPN 2,478MB, Land and House 21,289MB... and if we are talking quality..Trendy?!! OK, the other ones sure, Westin is only 3.5-4 star, but the rest are full 5 star.... however this is nowhere near the volume of Sansiri or Noble or other developers.

THis is a developer with a lot of marketing, and a great project on paper. Let's hope that they can turn it into a reality. But it looks to me like there is something going on, because the project is well behind the promises made to some people on this board who have committed to buy units there.

There are plenty of other developments in much worse state than this one around town.

Edited February 20, 2006 by steveromagnino

[IndoRealty]

If we want to know what sort of company this Grande Asset company is, let's review how each of their 124 Comm press releases starts.... 'Grande Asset Development Plc., Thailand?s leading property and hotel developer, announces its busin....' leading property and hotel developer???! really?? So how many projects do they have on the go?

'Grand Asset Development Plc. is Thailand?s leading property and hotel developer with 8 projects as follows: Westin Grande Sukumvit Hotel, Crowne Plaza Hotel, The Regent Bangkok Hotel, Sheraton Hua Hin Resort, Four Points Sheraton Hotel, Hua Hin Blue Lagoon resort condominiums and Island Villas, The Regent Residences and The Trendy.'

Again I am amazed at how uninformed people are so confident to give comments as if they know it all. Grande Asset is a listed company that belongs predominantly to Sampawakoop & Narula families. Each shareholders have prior experience in real estate development. The Narula family with Sheraton Grande Sukhumvit Hotel, which is just accross the street from Westin Grande, and the future Park Avenue hotel on Asoke were just to mentioned only a few of their real estate holding. The Narulas is probably the largest owner of plots of lands around Sukhumvit area. Pongphan Sampawakoop has developed a number of real estate projects including several townhouses, condominiums and shopping malls around silom, sathorn areas. He has each of these properties under different companies. PS Tower, Baan Prompong, Baan Sathorn, etc just to name a few.

Natural Park is a very bad name. No banks and debt investors are willing to replace the loan from Krung Thai Bank. Krung Thai Bank is desperate to get out of N-Park. To mention that Natural Park is better than Grande Asset is a complete joke.

Edited February 20, 2006 by IndoRealty

[moonoi]

Natural Park is a very bad name. No banks and debt investors are willing to replace the loan from Krung Thai Bank. Krung Thai Bank is desperate to get out of N-Park. To mention that Natural Park is better than Grande Asset is a complete joke.[/font]

I didn't see anywhere where Steve or anyone else for that matter said Natural Park was better than Grande Asset

Your comment of Natural park being in difficulty is a little disengenous, given that while NP may hold just under 25% of Sansiri, a rating company like TRIS has no problem rating them at BBB stable; and the management involvement of NP is fairly uncertain anyway. There are plenty of parent companies who end up selling companies or parts belonging to them due to difficulty, I am sure Sansiri has the mgt expertise to run themselves without the NP clowns. Anyway, the shares they own in Sansiri were offered as collateral in the loans, and so what for Sansiri if they end up with another anchor shareholder....

In fact not positive at all but the point is that whether NP goes under or not, it won't affect Sansiri anyway....if anything perhaps it would be better if they did disappear and a quality invester takes on NPs' shareholding

Having read all comments on this thread I would think that you have something to do with GA, certainly you can't take any kind of critsism from charles or steve even and you don't come back with any reasonable argument to defend your position.

I'm looking to buy somewhere in the next 12 months or so, and I trust more the objective analysis given by steve and charles to your ranting.......sorry

FYI I'm currently looking at developments by L&H, LPN and Supalai (all of which have been recommended by my Thai friends and collegues) with L&H being recommended as the best developer with the highest quality.

I like steve and others hope the regents ends up being successful to those who have invested and are to invest, but for now I'd like to see something more concrete from GA before placing a deposit with them. Several projects behind schedule and a few paper projects doesn't bode well for the future....perhaps the recent injection of foreign capital will help things move quicker just have to wait and see

EDIT: For clarity and spelling

Edited February 20, 2006 by moonoi

[susah_sih]

In fact not positive at all but the point is that whether NP goes under or not, it won't affect Sansiri anyway....if anything perhaps it would be better if they did disappear and a quality invester takes on NPs' shareholding

Having read all comments on this thread I would think that you have something to do with GA, certainly you can't take any kind of critsism from charles or steve even and you don't come back with any reasonable argument to defend your position.

I'm looking to buy somewhere in the next 12 months or so, and I trust more the objective analysis given by steve and charles to your ranting.......sorry

FYI I'm currently looking at developments by L&H, LPN and Supalai (all of which have been recommended by my Thai friends and collegues) with L&H being recommended as the best developer with the highest quality.

I like steve and others hope the regents ends up being successful to those who have invested and are to invest, but for now I'd like to see something more concrete from GA before placing a deposit with them. Several projects behind schedule and a few paper projects doesn't bode well for the future....perhaps the recent injection of foreign capital will help things move quicker just have to wait and see

EDIT: For clarity and spelling

The comment about N-Park came from me. Yes, it is very negative based on first hand experience. Before we moved to Central World, our company's office used to be located in Mercury Tower. It's a poorly maintained building with stinking toilets.

I dont know who you are referring to as working for GA, either me or IndoRealty.

Also for clarity. Me no work for GA. Me bought a unit in Regent. Am ok with the delay as I can earn more baht to pay for the condo. Am also quite happy with price increases of the Regent; earn handsomely (on the paper still) . Designs with no balconies, I like very much. So smooth and glassy. Glass buildings tend to last long may be 50 years with good maintenance and even then renovation would not be so painful when compared to brick and mortar buildings.

I am staying at L&H-built Langsuanville. L&H used cheap glass for Langsuanville so that during the day people from outside, especially Bank Thai employee, can see tenants inside, and at night tenants cannot see the outside since windows become mirrors with the light's on. Balconies @Langsuanville are just too scarry to stand on them. L&H is commendable only due to its habit of selling only finished units.

[susah_sih]

I have not to my recollection ever made such a comment. Please cut and paste where I made this.

And no... I have nothing to do with Sansiri or any of the other companies named above, I would not be that unprofessional to push something I do myself

I was under the impression that you had mentioned it a few times. My mistake

you surely could share with us the company name. afterall we have our own viewpoint. So, is it Kudu? Raimonland? or Goldenland?

[steveromagnino]

you surely could share with us the company name. afterall we have our own viewpoint. So, is it Kudu? Raimonland? or Goldenland?

Nice guesses :-) actually we have had the chance to work on a JV with one of those and another is part of the same family although we have nothing to do with that either.

I cannot really disclose because it would not be fair to my bosses.

I think there are lots of problems with MANY of the developments here which is why I like the L&H approach where you get to see what you are buying before you get it. And their developments aren't perfect in every way, but at least you can see where and whether to fix.

Susan, if you don't like balconies, then this is definitely a strong point of Regent Res; I hope that you enjoy the unit you've bought when it is complete If it does end up like the plan, well it is going to hopefully be instrumental in shifting all the riff raff out of the area, and it is a beautiful design, most people agree on that 100%.

And.... Indorealty, I presume that this comment is aimed at me?

Again I am amazed at how uninformed people are so confident to give comments as if they know it all.

Then you state....

To mention that Natural Park is better than Grande Asset is a complete joke.

I did not mention that at all, in fact the only comment I made was to clarify that NP is a significant shareholder of Sansiri, has uncertain involvement in mgt (which I assume to be none) and has used the shares as security for loans. Therefore, you cannot tar Sansiri with the NP brush, and I used the phrase 'Natural Park clowns' because IMHO I think they should leave their clown shoes at the door when they come to work, they are not a solid operator. On this we agree.

The cut and paste of Grande Asset is directly from their own PR agency's speil, not mine. No mention of their other acheivements as families, and why should there be? It wasn't GA that did it, it was some of the major shareholders in GA. I could get into why building hotels and legacy land ownership are vastly different to building condos and have little relevance to building condos for the most part, but I think you already know all this. I bow to your superior knowledge of the industry, but for sure you will be read more frequently if you respond to posts in a slightly more civil manner.

FYI I'm currently looking at developments by L&H, LPN and Supalai (all of which have been recommended by my Thai friends and collegues) with L&H being recommended as the best developer with the highest quality.

LPN specialises in the mid market - mid-low mostly.

L&H is mostly mid and mid-upper.

Supalai is mid-upper mostly.

Sansiri is mid-upper to upper.

Horses for courses, depends on the location, but Asian property or L&H *(same family) aren't going to be 5 star, but they will be good honest 2-4 star depending on which project. Value for money is probably the best way to describe, and you often will know what you are getting into ,because they sell complete.

Supalai, check their development out in Pahonyothin, cheap at under 50k per sq m, but the build quality isn't perfect; if you go to the oldest buildling you can see what happens after 8 years.

Raimon, GOlden Land, Noble, all have some good some great, some only ok, worth checking out the completed units. I'd try to buy in a freehold area rather than leasedhold, once the crown property bureau starts to run at commercial rates, then areas like Langsuan may experience quite significant increases in lease rates (as it is leashold area). but that is personal speculation.....

LPN are awesome on the sharemarket, I really believe in what they are doing, but be careful, and know what you are buying, their developments are not luxurious, and are not marketed as such for the most part.

Good luck!

[amarka]

hi...

the Regents have sent out letters to the buyers explaining the delays and offering slower payment alternatives.

i for one will not take the slower payment method and stick to the original contract.

anyway it looks like completion December 2007 now.

looking at the current state of the building i cant see this happening...any comments?

amarka

[The Skipper]

hi...

the Regents have sent out letters to the buyers explaining the delays and offering slower payment alternatives.

i for one will not take the slower payment method and stick to the original contract.

anyway it looks like completion December 2007 now.

looking at the current state of the building i cant see this happening...any comments?

amarka

I've been watching projects go up around here for some time.

Not unusual to spend a year on the pilings and basement, then about 1 floor per month goes up.

Another 6 months to outfift the interiors.

Expect allot of construction noise the first year after moving in.

Great location by the way.