Thailand Ranks 41 In University Ranking

[webfact]

EDUCATION

Thailand ranks 41 in university ranking

THE NATION

Thailand is in 41st place in a recent ranking of universities in 48 countries.

BANGKOK: -- While Thailand is ahead of seven other countries, including India and Indonesia, it lags behind China and Malaysia when it comes to the quality of higher education. China is at No 39 while Malaysia is in 36th place.

The rankings are by the Universitas 21 network or research universities and were compiled by researchers at the Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research at the University of Melbourne. They looked at the most recent data from 48 countries and territories, taking into account 20 measurements, including investment by government and the private sector.

It's the first time the UK-based Universitas 21 has compiled the rankings.

The top five countries are, in order, the US, Sweden, Canada, Finland and Denmark.

Of Asian countries, Singapore is the highest ranked at No 11. Hong Kong is 18th, Japan is 20th, Taiwan is 21st and South Korea is 22nd.

Overall, the US is the best provider of quality higher education. However, when broken down into the smaller sections, the US falls behind, especially in government funding of higher education as a percentage of GDP, which is highest in Finland, Norway and Denmark.

Private-sector funding of higher education is greatest in the US, South Korea, Canada and Chile.

Other findings showed that investment in research and development is highest in Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland. The US dominates in terms of total output of research journal articles, but when viewed as a percentage of articles per capita, Sweden is at the top of the ranking.

-- The Nation 2012-05-16

[OzMick]

Do Thai degrees have perforations?

[Om85]

I am sure this must be some kind of joke.

[draftvader]

Do Thai degrees have perforations?

I believe the perforations are to allow you to detach the envelope easily.

[Greer]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

[simple1]

The top Uni in Australia ranked 38th in world rankings in 2011. See http://www.australian-universities.com/rankings/

[geriatrickid]

Too Funny.

They are really trying to spin this. Only 48 countries ratings were ranked in the publication and Thailand came in at 41 just above Iran.

The bottom 20 have dismal scores. The top 10 are comparable overall. Thailand's score was 46.6 out of 100. Ignoring the advanced nation of Singapore, Thailand didn't do so bad when compared to its regional peer group of India, Indonesia and China. After all, these countries have 3/7 of the world's population. However, when compared to he developed world, Thailand is left behind.

[geriatrickid]

The top Uni in Australia ranked 38th in world rankings in 2011. See http://www.australia...s.com/rankings/

Comparing most western universities with one another is like comparing Ford to Volkswagen to GM to Toyota. They are all decent and will get you somewhere, although some of us would rather be in a a Lexus and not a Chey Volt. On the other hand comparing Thai universities would require adding a category for a sedan chair with Issan bearers, with the chaps walking out of step..

Edited May 16, 2012 by geriatrickid

[noitom]

This survey is not believable.

[xthAi76s]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

My friend, in what areas do the Aussies dominate or even excel in?

Finance? Australian Wall Street?

Law? Well, certainly law is different, so perhaps not really easily comparable.

Science?

Technology? Aussie Silicon Valley??

Agriculture?

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years. The secondary unis are still always among the best in the world.

Has there been a recent decline in overall education? I believe so, yes. But, what the US has that many other countries do not is the legal and regulatory structure to make very fast policy changes to affect change (whether positive or negative, of course). That has always been its major advantage. Americans, unlike most Europeans, (not sure about Aussies) are not so tied to tradition and long, complex histories that often hold these other countries back. As the American economy recovers (faster than those of Europe and Asia, I might add), and as the presidents and policy makers focus more acutely on scaring Americans into believing that the Chinese and Indians are actually turning out better prepared graduates (and thus encouraging American voters to force more money into education as a percentage of GDP), I think we are in to see a resurgence in the focus on education across the country.

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark? And, how many of them are there anyway? America is much larger than Australia, so you are certainly bound to get more American graduates at some level below where you might another, random Aussie graduate.

Edited May 16, 2012 by xthAi76s

[chuckd]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark?

Iron man competitions?

[sparebox2]

41 out of 48.

Thailand still beat 7 nations.

Wow.

[LucidLucifer]

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years.

Last couple of hundred years..........

I sincerely hope you didn't study history at a US university!!

[xthAi76s]

Of course, the issues of education, particularly in America with its many immigrant students, is complex.

The below video argues both sides.

--

[xthAi76s]

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years.

Last couple of hundred years..........

I sincerely hope you didn't study history at a US university!!

The American Industrial Revolution was (1820-1870) -- is my math incorrect? I even pulled out the calculator.

[LucidLucifer]

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years.

Last couple of hundred years..........

I sincerely hope you didn't study history at a US university!!

The American Industrial Revolution was (1820-1870) -- is my math incorrect? I even pulled out the calculator.

Were in danger of going well off topic here, so i'll keep it brief. Beyond that either start a new thread or better still, learn a little bit of history minus your star spangled rose tint glasses.

If you want to talk about when the US led the western world in the above mentioned categories, and you were to say post WW II, I'd completely agree for the most part. Prior to that they were an up and coming country, with huge resources, and potential industrial might.

It took the devestation of Europe and the collapse of colonialism for you to become preeminent. As you have pointed out, the US industrial revolution started in 1820. Well done, the British started theirs over 100 years before that, and was much more developed, the US had serious catching up to do.

[xthAi76s]

But back to Thailand, I think we all know that the educational system here is rather appalling. I've read several books by Thai and foreign authors that suggest education in this country (like many things: culture, the exploitation and distortion of Thai Buddhism, the complexities of the Thai writing 'system', etc) have been purposefully designed to keep the 'poor' class in their position at the expense of the elites. I've seen this argument laid out quite well with all types of historical support.

So, I'm not so sure what Thailand is 'on about'. (Is that a British expression or an Aussie one? I'm not good with those quaint expressions of English.) My predictions are that:

1) the elites are NOT going to make effort to change this culture. Why would they. They enjoy one of the largest wealth gaps in the world. And, why do you think the Thais have one of the highest Power Index values in the world?

2) the poor are systematically prevented from learning a.) why and b.) how to challenge the 'establishment'. They are prevented through the 'educational' system in Thailand. They are prevented through their indoctrination of nationalistic teachings. In other words, "direct any angst you may have about your life at the 'other'. The foreigner They are prevented by their shaping by perverted Thai Buddhism that teaches them that they belong wherever they are and that they shouldn't want for improvement.

3) So, the change will most certainly HAVE TO come from the Thai middle class. They have a choice to make. Certainly, there are not many of them, but their numbers are growing, and that could be marvelous thing for Thailand. Thus far, it seems rather apparent that the middle class (and by this I mean reasonably educated, probably at least some English speaking, more liberal and modern but perhaps not ultra wealthy Thais) lacks the courage and/or ability and/or desire to change things here -- and that is, of course, their choice if it is so.

So, all this talk about improving the education system here, to me, is rather pointless unless Thais are willing to actually look at the fundamentals that dictate largely why things are the way they are. Their educational system and the other systems of indoctrination (religion, " others ", nationalism) are in many ways (including those most probably intended) are wholly a masterpiece. What other nation can grip and stifle people's minds so well that they completely lack the desire or will to affect for themselves a better, more respectable, more comfortable existence? Thailand is unique in this regard.

Edited May 16, 2012 by xthAi76s

[xthAi76s]

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years.

Last couple of hundred years..........

I sincerely hope you didn't study history at a US university!!

The American Industrial Revolution was (1820-1870) -- is my math incorrect? I even pulled out the calculator.

Were in danger of going well off topic here, so i'll keep it brief. Beyond that either start a new thread or better still, learn a little bit of history minus your star spangled rose tint glasses.

If you want to talk about when the US led the western world in the above mentioned categories, and you were to say post WW II, I'd completely agree for the most part. Prior to that they were an up and coming country, with huge resources, and potential industrial might.

It took the devestation of Europe and the collapse of colonialism for you to become preeminent. As you have pointed out, the US industrial revolution started in 1820. Well done, the British started theirs over 100 years before that, and was much more developed, the US had serious catching up to do.

I agree with this. So, OK, perhaps not the past couple hundred years. And, yes I understand this aspect of history and even of the science that the US plundered from Austria / Germany around the time of the war.

[LucidLucifer]

I agree with this. So, OK, perhaps not the past couple hundred years. And, yes I understand this aspect of history and even of the science that the US plundered from Austria / Germany around the time of the war.

It was only your timeframe I didn't agree with, otherwise the US did lead the world for their time. Give it another couple of decades and you'll look back at that time as fondly as us Brits look back at our time as world leaders.

Gone, but not forgotten.

[xthAi76s]

I agree with this. So, OK, perhaps not the past couple hundred years. And, yes I understand this aspect of history and even of the science that the US plundered from Austria / Germany around the time of the war.

It was only your timeframe I didn't agree with, otherwise the US did lead the world for their time. Give it another couple of decades and you'll look back at that time as fondly as us Brits look back at our time as world leaders.

Gone, but not forgotten.

Thanks. Actually, despite my somewhat proud posting about America, I'm not so wrapped up in all that and likely won't look back at all.

I'm more pragmatic and care more about moving forward irrespective of what it says on my passport. That's why I'm here in Thailand. I feel that America helped prepare me to be quite competitive in the world as it stands today.

Will the future generations of Americans be able to feel similarly? I hope so, and I do think so for some time. I don't think American education or competitiveness is fundamentally doomed. I think, for example, that China and India have MASSIVE challenges ahead of them that people are overlooking. The most obvious one being the class revolution that they will likely face. Despite the growth in those two mega countries, the wealth gap is widening. That model can't last forever. Social revolution will force changes in those two countries like those seen in Europe first and America second. So, they've got some issues. They are following largely the same economic development pattern (industrialization and then modernization of thought, more slowly) that the West went through, so it only stands to reason that they would probably encounter some of the same fundamental problems.

Time will tell.

EDIT:

The challenge for the modern countries is WHAT'S NEXT? From agriculture to industrialization. From industrialization to services (finance, for example) onto technology. What's next? What will be the next several-decades-long growth engine. The leaders are always at this 'disadvantage'.

Edited May 16, 2012 by xthAi76s

[scorecard]

But back to Thailand, I think we all know that the educational system here is rather appalling. I've read several books by Thai and foreign authors that suggest education in this country (like many things: culture, the exploitation and distortion of Thai Buddhism, the complexities of the Thai writing 'system', etc) have been purposefully designed to keep the 'poor' class in their position at the expense of the elites. I've seen this argument laid out quite well with all types of historical support.

So, I'm not so sure what Thailand is 'on about'. (Is that a British expression or an Aussie one? I'm not good with those quaint expressions of English.) My predictions are that:

1) the elites are NOT going to make effort to change this culture. Why would they. They enjoy one of the largest wealth gaps in the world. And, why do you think the Thais have one of the highest Power Index values in the world?

2) the poor are systematically prevented from learning a.) why and b.) how to challenge the 'establishment'. They are prevented through the 'educational' system in Thailand. They are prevented through their indoctrination of nationalistic teachings. In other words, "direct any angst you may have about your life at the 'other'. The foreigner They are prevented by their shaping by perverted Thai Buddhism that teaches them that they belong wherever they are and that they shouldn't want for improvement.

3) So, the change will most certainly HAVE TO come from the Thai middle class. They have a choice to make. Certainly, there are not many of them, but their numbers are growing, and that could be marvelous thing for Thailand. Thus far, it seems rather apparent that the middle class (and by this I mean reasonably educated, probably at least some English speaking, more liberal and modern but perhaps not ultra wealthy Thais) lacks the courage and/or ability and/or desire to change things here -- and that is, of course, their choice if it is so.

So, all this talk about improving the education system here, to me, is rather pointless unless Thais are willing to actually look at the fundamentals that dictate largely why things are the way they are. Their educational system and the other systems of indoctrination (religion, " others ", nationalism) are in many ways (including those most probably intended) are wholly a masterpiece. What other nation can grip and stifle people's minds so well that they completely lack the desire or will to affect for themselves a better, more respectable, more comfortable existence? Thailand is unique in this regard.

My thoughts:

1. I believe the word 'elites' is misleading. In reality what does this word even mean - does anybody really know? In fact it's a fairly new word which has sprung from recent politican conflicts and some folks would believe (me included) that it's a word deliberatley manufactured to push the intent of one particular Thai man.

IMHO the Thai people who have ignored education are politicians rather than the so called 'elite'. In this country heads of ministries in the main are not highly capable people (they are mostly political appointees, and in many cases have bought their promotions for a purpose), they don't offer policy ideas to the ministers they report to (in many instances they wouldn't dare to offer ideas), and in fact most of the ministers are also not very capable. Therefore education, and a lot more areas needing development, just get ignored. Budgets to maintain the status quo are big, thats' all that matters, if you get my drift.

2. In terms of Thai universities the gap between the best and the worst is enormous. I have some personal insight into this subject - I lecture at several so called Thai 'prestigious' universities and the quality is not all that bad. Example, If top universities from Europe, US, Aust., and Singapore, etc., will readily agree to exchange programs (and there are students from all of these countries / regions studying here in Thailand for a semester / a year, etc), then they can't be that bad. Plus all of these institutes readily accept Thai students into the same exchange programs. Two years back one of my best Thai students finished her BBA, in Thailand, with a GPA of 4, and she was readily accepted into the London School of Economics for her MBA. A Thammasat (business) team just recently won an invited international quite prestigious competition.

On the other hand I have a close family member (born in Thailand) who attended a Rajabut university because the major he wanted was not available at a 'prestigious' Thai university. For his Major the quality was quite good, and graduates in this specific field are highly sought after from this specific Rajabut institution, but for most of the other compulsory subjects the quality was totally disgraceful (Example: a 19 yr old Thai girl with no qualifications in anything, who couldn't speak any English, was the English teacher. She's a close relative of the dean. She arrived an hour late for every class and often didn't arrive at all, no professional preparation, questions from the students not allowed. Total waste of time for the students, they learned nothing at all.) The place in question has the same budgets as other similar institutions but their buildings are falling down, and some classes are conducted in rooms with one wall completely collapsed.

3. I do agree that change will happen and it will be when the middle class get bigger, more educated and more vocal and stand up to be counted. But it's not tomorrow. There are many highly capable genuine and honest Thai people who could change all of this and fairly quickly but right now they don't get involved for lots of good reasons. The day will come.

Edited May 16, 2012 by scorecard

[geriatrickid]

I agree with this. So, OK, perhaps not the past couple hundred years. And, yes I understand this aspect of history and even of the science that the US plundered from Austria / Germany around the time of the war.

I would not dare criticize your previous well argued statements, but the Austro/Hungarian Empire was the center of education for some time. it's collapse was to the future Germany's benefit. Poland too was once a center of enlightenment and advanced scientific thought. There was a time when all the great things came from the old "Italian" city states. Even China abused for so many centuries by various colonialists and its own corrupt dynasties managed to make important contributions to science and technology.

Therein lies the key difference between many places and Thailand.Thailand never really experienced a similar age of enlightenment and scientific advancement. Oh sure they did a bit of water irrigation, but it was borrowed from the Chinese. I'm sure you are familiar with the story of Galileo and his hand held "spyglass". He basically ripped it off from some Dutch trader. However, in his quest to copy the hand held device that he needed to sell to the Venetian military to make some quick money, he improved upon the device. In Thailand, when the manufacturers counterfeit or copy something, they usually end up reducing the quality. One sees this with the counterfeit clothing that disintegrates after a few washes, or worse, with the counterfeit medicine that harms hundreds if not thousands of people every year.

[jayboy]

My thoughts:

1. I believe the word 'elites' is misleading. In reality what does this word even mean? Do anybody realy know? In fact it's a fairly new word which has sprunk from recent politican conflicts and some folks would believe (me included) that it's a word deliberatley manufactured to push the intent of one particular Thai man.

2. In terms of Thai universities the gap between the best and the worst is enormous. I have some personal insight into this subject - I lecture at several so called Thai 'prestigious' universities and the quality is not all that bad. Example, If top universities from Europe, US, Aust., and Singapore will readily agree to exchange programs (and there are students from all of these countries / regions studying here in Thailand for a semester / a year, etc), then they can't be that bad. Plus all of these institutes readily accept Thai students. Two years back one of my best Thai students finished her BBA with a GPA of 4, and she was readily accepted into the London School of Economics for her MBA.

So you believe the problem of the elites (contrary to the view of all historians, social commentators and most Thais) is a made up one designed to serve the purposes of one man.Difficult to know how to respond to this kind of myopic silliness and actually characterises a frame of thinking that is profoundly out of synch with the true idea of a university.

As to the standard of Thai universities you have ignored the points made in earlier posts about cultural issues, notably the tendency to substitute indoctrination for hard analytical thinking.The example you give of a student qualifying for the LSE MBA course is not that impressive, not least because the LSE does not offer a full time MBA course.

My knowledge of the Thailand university sector is limited to the top tier institutions.There are some excellent elements there but the overall standard is slovenly given the resources available, and this reflected time and again in low world university rankings.A few years ago a British friend who was a long term lecturer at Chula told me in terms of academic level, enquiring minds and sheer intelliigence the standard was higher in the class of 14 year olds he had taught at Westminsrter School in England in his early career.

[Xangsamhua]

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark?

12 Nobel Prizewinners.

Not bad for a small country.

[Xangsamhua]

A few years ago a British friend who was a long term lecturer at Chula told me in terms of academic level, enquiring minds and sheer intelliigence the standard was higher in the class of 14 year olds he had taught at Westminsrter School in England in his early career.

This is the top academic school in England. http://www.westminster.org.uk/index.html

For academic ability, enquiring minds and sheer intelligence - all relative to age - this place would be hard to beat anywhere, wouldn't it?

[seminomadic]

3) So, the change will most certainly HAVE TO come from the Thai middle class. They have a choice to make. Certainly, there are not many of them, but their numbers are growing, and that could be marvelous thing for Thailand. Thus far, it seems rather apparent that the middle class (and by this I mean reasonably educated, probably at least some English speaking, more liberal and modern but perhaps not ultra wealthy Thais) lacks the courage and/or ability and/or desire to change things here -- and that is, of course, their choice if it is so.

There certainly is precedent in other parts of the world where the middle class was the engine of change, but I'll offer a prediction that it won't be the case in Thailand. The observations pointing to this are the fact that 2/3 of Thais are already in debt as noted on an article on ThaiVisa just the other day. I don't know if those 2/3 are primarily underclass or the nascent middle class, but my guess ties in the other observation that Thailand is a ferociously consumerist society. Many people point to America and it's malls for leading the global consumerist push but I've never seen people run with the ball the way the Thais do. it's called a 'developing' country yet the lust for goods and brand names is off the chain.

I believe the rampant consumerism and debt will serve as yokes that prevent the middle class from being a big factor here.

In the US, many are in debt now too, but there were a few generations, when there were a LOT fewer middle class families in such deep debt. Doesn't look like Thailand's incipient middle class is gonna get the same grace period.

Great post tho, enjoyed it.

[Baerboxer]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

I agree with your surprise at the results. Hard to judge as we don't know the validity of the criteria or if they're comparing "apples for apples". I know 2 Thais who were awarded Masters degrees from Austrailian Universities, and one Chinese. Their English is very poor and they would have struggled to get a similar degree in the US or UK so I'm not so sure about the Aussie standards. But, no doubt everyone has a story.

[belg]

strange, in the US you pay 20 to 50.000 $ dollar per year to attend uni, in most European countries, everybody who finished high school can attend for as almost 0 - 500 euros per year as subscription fee

so, the best schools for elite only ?

[jayboy]

This is the top academic school in England. http://www.westminst...g.uk/index.html

For academic ability, enquiring minds and sheer intelligence - all relative to age - this place would be hard to beat anywhere, wouldn't it?

Certainly one of the top half dozen, and I suppose in terms of average IQ the intensely selective Westminster School would probably be ahead of most British universities let alone Thai ones..However we are comparing Westminster boys aged 14 with Thai "elite" university students of 18 +, to the latter's disadvantage.It is in fact, regardless of how bright and motivated the Westminster children are, actually rather shaming for Thailand.Nobody seriously believes Thai students lack intelligence but they tend to be weighed down by cultural baggage (indoctrination,Thai exceptionalism, history through fairy stories, resistance to hard analytical thinking etc etc) - unless they escape early like those Democrat Party stalwarts, Abhisit and Korn (both to elite schools similar to Westminster.)

Edited May 16, 2012 by jayboy

[Scott]

I think we can limit the discussion and comparison to Thai Universities and their counterparts in other countries. Certainly long posts about Australia/US/UK universities, although sometimes informative, are off-topic. Let's avoid that.

While traveling in the car, there is an Australian radio program which talks about research and development in Australia. Very interesting and very cutting edge, I might add. As GK in another thread mentioned, a lot of research and discoveries are shared with other Universities. They are refined, improved upon and eventually developed into useful technology. National borders are not the issue; the quality of the school and the students studying there is. International students abound in many Universities.

I know little about Thai Universities, but I have known (and am currently helping) students who are working on Master's Degrees. One had proposed a unique study for her Master's Degree. It was turned down and the teacher told her what she should do, how many in the sample group etc. etc.. Not much incentive to thinking. Very little creativity needed.