Thailand Ranks 41 In University Ranking

[allan michaud]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

From my experience far too many US graduates have no idea what is going on in the real world. Many that turn up here in Phnom Penh working for NGO's are utterly useless, what they learned isn't worth anything in the real world. While the same can be said for other countries, in my experience most other nationalities adapt far better.

I met a young American teaching English in Thailand recently on a bus. "Yeah, I'm like you know, teaching English to Thais' it's like, you know.... Every sentence was punctuated with "it's like" and "you know", I couldn't wait to get away from her. Others here in Cambodia come up with all sorts of ideas to help people but they are based on what they learned and not on reality and so are a complete waste of time. I am sorry but I do not see the US as having anything like the best Universities based on the many US graduates I have met over the past decade or so.

[sparebox2]

This is the top academic school in England. http://www.westminst...g.uk/index.html

For academic ability, enquiring minds and sheer intelligence - all relative to age - this place would be hard to beat anywhere, wouldn't it?

Certainly one of the top half dozen, and I suppose in terms of average IQ the intensely selective Westminster School would probably be ahead of most British universities let alone Thai ones..However we are comparing Westminster boys aged 14 with Thai "elite" university students of 18 +, to the latter's disadvantage.It is in fact, regardless of how bright and motivated the Westminster children are, actually rather shaming for Thailand.Nobody seriously believes Thai students lack intelligence but they tend to be weighed down by cultural baggage (indoctrination,Thai exceptionalism, history through fairy stories, resistance to hard analytical thinking etc etc) - unless they escape early like those Democrat Party stalwarts, Abhisit and Korn (both to elite schools similar to Westminster.)

"Thai students lack intelligence" - I really like your statement.

I always though that intelligence is naturally inherited, while knowledge and experience are something you learn and accumulate.

[Jobiwankenobi]

Yes, all young Americans use "it's like" incorrectly and far too often for my personal taste as well, so yes, all Americans are not intelligent and all have problems adapting. Especially ones who work for NGO's in Cambodia. I detest when other westerners do not use correct grammar and speak in colloquialisms while speaking with me in public! This is also right on topic. I'm glad I posted this eh! So much insight into the article above.

Take off eh!

[OzMick]

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark? And, how many of them are there anyway? America is much larger than Australia, so you are certainly bound to get more American graduates at some level below where you might another, random Aussie graduate.

Recently - try HPV.

[LucidLucifer]

This is the top academic school in England. http://www.westminst...g.uk/index.html

For academic ability, enquiring minds and sheer intelligence - all relative to age - this place would be hard to beat anywhere, wouldn't it?

Certainly one of the top half dozen, and I suppose in terms of average IQ the intensely selective Westminster School would probably be ahead of most British universities let alone Thai ones..However we are comparing Westminster boys aged 14 with Thai "elite" university students of 18 +, to the latter's disadvantage.It is in fact, regardless of how bright and motivated the Westminster children are, actually rather shaming for Thailand.Nobody seriously believes Thai students lack intelligence but they tend to be weighed down by cultural baggage (indoctrination,Thai exceptionalism, history through fairy stories, resistance to hard analytical thinking etc etc) - unless they escape early like those Democrat Party stalwarts, Abhisit and Korn (both to elite schools similar to Westminster.)

"Thai students lack intelligence" - I really like your statement.

I always though that intelligence is naturally inherited, while knowledge and experience are something you learn and accumulate.

He actually said, "No one seriously believes Thai students lack intelligence." Not that Thai students weren't intelligent.

Two totally different things.

[xthAi76s]

Right. None of the posters that I see here are suggesting that Thais don't have the capability. In the right environment, like most any other group of people, would likely flourish, and they might find that their cultural strengths might even serve to compliment their successes. Yes, that was intentionally vague.

geriatrickid,

Yes, I, too, note the conspicuous absence of any real intellectual revolution in Thai history. If there was one (even before the age of science), I have not read about it though I have searched. Perhaps the women are just too damned beautiful and the food too damned plentiful and tasty?

seminomadic,

Thanks. Interesting point you've made. There do seem to be several major potential issues to the rise of a strong middle class here. Old world education, irresponsible consumerism, cultural propensity (if I may use that word) toward a very flexible (to spin it positively) legal framework, insularism, perhaps power distance and Thai unwillingness to question someone in authority etc etc etc. Not that there is a single country in the world without issues (some, of course, rather serious), but it seems from my lay perspective that Thailand will get the best ROI from revamping education. I think most other changes will stem from average Thais (not necessarily those at the top of the social/educational structure) being more educated in a modern sense.

One thing that is mentioned semi-regularly is what impact improved ability in English may have on the Thai population. For a person who only understands Thai language, his/her 'world' of information is rather small indeed. Not only that, similarly to (but with notable differences) China or perhaps even North Korea, the Thai knowledge network is largely a single message if you will. Not much dissent. Not much challenge to establishment. Not a great deal of cultural critiquing. On the 'flip side', a Thai with the ability to absorb English language content will have a very, very different world of information available to them even about their own country. Of course, for many, it will not be enough as their cultural/national indoctrination will prove too strong an obstacle... But, for many, it will 'get the ball rolling' toward making real progress.

That's really what is needed I believe. Sure, Thai students can excel. Why wouldn't they be able to? I know Thai people who are extraordinarily bright indeed. Many in my wife's family and some outside of it.

But, the for majority in the middle, the institution and students need to be able to 1) identify issues where they might be deficient -- which requires a great deal of openness and honesty and then 2) have available to them methods to improve. Sounds simple, but in a largely closed national system that does not seem to look outward, it could be a monumental challenge.

I wish them the best. It would be great (before I depart this world) to be able to feel like I'm in a country that is progressing intellectually. A Thailand just as culturally Thai with most of its unique beauty but in a version of the country perhaps where people are more curious and less suspicious of non-Thais, more proud of real achievement and less proud for the sake of being proud, richer and with better, easier lives. I think (I hope) that version of Thailand would be rather remarkable. Like a TRUE Venice of the East.

[inkorat]

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark?

12 Nobel Prizewinners.

Not bad for a small country.

Yes they do have some prize winners, but we are talking about eduction and most of the winners you mention received some or all of their advanced studies outside of Australia. Some were born in other countries where they went to school and have dual citizenship. Only Marshal appears to be a stand alone product of the Australian school system.

[Time Traveller]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

What criteria are you looking at? Beer drinking? According to the Times Higher Education world rankings 2011-2012m, 7 out of the top 10 are universities from USA, In fact the best ranked from australia is university of Melbourne at number 37 - behind 24 of their counterparts from USA .

Maybe in a down under reverse logic kind of way could say that those from australia "rank highly compared with american universites".

And no I'm not an American, and yes I did actually study in an Australian university,

Edited May 16, 2012 by Time Traveller

[xthAi76s]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

What criteria are you looking at? Beer drinking? According to the Times Higher Education world rankings 2011-2012m, 7 out of the top 10 are universities from USA, In fact the best ranked from australia is university of Melbourne at number 37 - behind 24 of their counterparts from USA .

Maybe in a down under reverse logic kind of way could say that those from australia "rank highly compared with american universites".

Just to add something about the Aussie unis. I had a few friends from there and who attend unis in Australia, and at least a couple of them have mentioned how much harder it's supposed to be to score highly on uni exams as compared to uni exams in the US. When I hear this, of course, I just laugh inside a bit because it's just completely arbitrary. Has no meaning for comparison. But, they definitely do seem to enjoy that 'distinguishing feature' of unis there.

Anyway, this bickering is irrelevant to the topic here, and I'm sorry that I initially played into it. As Gkid wrote earlier, the rich country unis generally have enough and good enough unis. Comparing them fairly is probably a lot harder than we think. But, what is much more obvious is that comparing most any of them to most in Thailand (and, as one poster mentioned, even comparing to the prestigious ones here in Thailand), the differences are much, much apparent.

[bigbamboo]

This is a misleading headline to say Thailand is 41st..... but out of only 48.

A bit like saying 'Girls vote Justin Beiber the sexiest celebrity in the world'......... who's still at school.

[swillowbee]

This is a misleading headline to say Thailand is 41st..... but out of only 48.

A bit like saying 'Girls vote Justin Beiber the sexiest celebrity in the world'......... who's still at school.

.

Viewed another way, Thai universities scored in the bottom 15th percentile.

[orpheus454]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

My friend, in what areas do the Aussies dominate or even excel in?

Finance? Australian Wall Street?

Quite frankly, yes.

No Australian institutions caused the biggest financial meltdown since the Great Depression.

Wall Street did. Wall Street is broken. Wall Street is rotten.

[xthAi76s]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

My friend, in what areas do the Aussies dominate or even excel in?

Finance? Australian Wall Street?

Quite frankly, yes.

No Australian institutions caused the biggest financial meltdown since the Great Depression.

Wall Street did. Wall Street is broken. Wall Street is rotten.

Right, and also created more wealth and prosperity than the world had seen prior. Take the good with the bad.

[KKvampire]

Whats so surprising about the survey? Thailand university degrees are pretty worthless(certainly outside the country) .ask any foreign teacher who has worked at any.Students know they get that piece of paper whatever they achieve or dont achieve there.

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Fatherfluffybottom]

And who is the mastermind behind these surveys!!?

[kerryk]

Whats so surprising about the survey? Thailand university degrees are pretty worthless(certainly outside the country) .ask any foreign teacher who has worked at any.Students know they get that piece of paper whatever they achieve or dont achieve there.

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

I take it you have not been to many Thai hospitals lately. I am a foreign teacher who has worked with Thai students for the past 10 years. I fly with Thai pilots too.

[kerryk]

And who is the mastermind behind these surveys!!?

I don't know for a fact but I don't think he went to a Thai University. Maybe an Australian one.

[KKvampire]

How does going to thai hospital make a case for the quality of any degree in Thailand ?And being a pilot certainly has nothing to do with a university education

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Edited May 16, 2012 by KKvampire

[swillowbee]

... So, all this talk about improving the education system here, to me, is rather pointless unless Thais are willing to actually look at the fundamentals that dictate largely why things are the way they are. Their educational system and the other systems of indoctrination (religion, " others ", nationalism) are in many ways (including those most probably intended) are wholly a masterpiece. What other nation can grip and stifle people's minds so well that they completely lack the desire or will to affect for themselves a better, more respectable, more comfortable existence? Thailand is unique in this regard.

.

Well stated xthAi76s ... and education is but one powerful pincer between which Thais have been inextricably held by the Thai privileged classes.

Perhaps better covered in another thread, the institutional passification of Thais, a multi-faceted strategy, is as you describe 'wholly a masterpiece,' perpetrated on the Thai population over generations, utilizing all Thai institutions to produce the unique Thai cultural values that prevent Thais from being more ... prevent them from even believing they can be more.

Look around ... there is virtually no Thai institution that is not purposefully organized to favor the privileged elite, at the expense of the poor of this nation. And those institutions have indelibly burned into the Thai psyche the elite's dominion over them as perfectly acceptable 'Thai cultural values' ... normal ... which defines who Thais are, as a nation of people ... although accomplished through different means, the end result in no different than what Ceausescu, Hitler, the Kims and Mao did to their people ... a passified, subverted population to be dominated and exploited for generations.

This is a remarkable thing to witness, in this modern world.

Edited May 16, 2012 by swillowbee

[Unkomoncents]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

From my experience far too many US graduates have no idea what is going on in the real world. Many that turn up here in Phnom Penh working for NGO's are utterly useless, what they learned isn't worth anything in the real world. While the same can be said for other countries, in my experience most other nationalities adapt far better.

I met a young American teaching English in Thailand recently on a bus. "Yeah, I'm like you know, teaching English to Thais' it's like, you know.... Every sentence was punctuated with "it's like" and "you know", I couldn't wait to get away from her. Others here in Cambodia come up with all sorts of ideas to help people but they are based on what they learned and not on reality and so are a complete waste of time. I am sorry but I do not see the US as having anything like the best Universities based on the many US graduates I have met over the past decade or so.

Yeah, because Cambodia and Thailand really do attract the world's most competitive, progressive minds. ALL the Nobel laureates want to live in Bangkok, or even better, Phnom Penh!

[kerryk]

How does going to thai hospital make a case for the quality of any degree in Thailand ?And being a pilot certainly has nothing to do with a university education

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

You are not aware that Doctors study and have degrees from Thai universities as do pilots?

[tingtong]

I, as a parent fear that Thai universiries are just as useless for my son, than thai school is.

He just started 4th grade, and had a perents day yesterday. A goevrnment school, we live countryside, even this is 10km away in the amhur, no private schools or such in 70km radius!

The teacher asked a simple questions, how many kids cant read? 15 of the 30 raised hand, and parents havent even feeled asheamed. My can read, he did kindergarten and grade 1-2 in the city, though a semi private school, but nothing fancy.

The teacher offered extra hour for these kids for 400thb/month. all well.

But for my surpise non of the parents of the illiteral kids asked the questions that how come the kids got to grade 4, most if not all in this school, without being able to read, and why the teachers didnt bother to teach them to read for 3 years.

They should have English language, but the last teacher left last year, no other hired, and this year there is again no English teacher. I was asked by the teachers if i would be interested, but neither i am a teacher, nor a native, and honestly, i cant give up my job for 10.000thb. Moreover, if the kids cant read/write Thai, how to expect them to learn English?

Sorry for the longer story and the personal aspect...

the point is: if these are the kids to get to the Unis, then how to expect there a solid quality education?

They have no fear to anything as long as the education system is this, get used to pass every grade automaticly without fail, then if any trouble still, nothing that money couldnt fix.

But while a stupid kid can make an avarage politician anytime, I am afraid of stupid kids made into doctors, scientist making water policies, and advisors without knowledge at all.

To make quality higher education, one should start out to make a real quality basic education.

No tablets, but change the broken fan, teach the kids to read, have more than 8 books for 30 kids to learn from, have a working fan in the classroom, have chairs and tables instead of rough workbench like tables and bench seats. And ban TVs in the classroom where kids cant read or write.

As a sidenote: books are very expensive for kids, if they not cartoon comics. The usual kid books, fairy tales, etc, to get them hooked on reading are extremely costly. Say Winnie the Poh 300THB or so....even with the raised daily wage of 300thb...compare to US, that is around 60USD....or Ireland 65 Euro....only those countries they cost lot less to buy similar books.

[RaoulDuke]

Overall, a fairly worthless study. Especially in places like the USA, where there are a very large number of universities, and the quality of education, as well as affordablility vary quite substantially. For every Harvard, there are hundreds of smaller, unknown universities. And many of the local, public universities that actually are accessible to the majority of the students have very low standards and a low quality of education. The bottom line is that it does not matter where you live, but rather how much money you have, that determines the quality of education you get. Not to mention that many of the Ivy League schools are still very much ran by old money, where if you have the right connections, you will get in and you will get a good job afterwards, regardless of how intelligent or successful you are in school. Going to the right school is more about connections than education. If you are born with the right connections, you have it made, otherwise you have to work your ass off to get to the top, but you still need to get into these specific schools so you can create the connections you will need to succeed. Just look at the USA's last 2 presidents for a prime example of each extreme, Bush was a good ole boy who practically flunked out of Yale, while Obama was a standout student who earned his way into Harvard. Where do you think all the CEO's come from? Would Facebook ever have exploded if it started in a community college in Illinois, rather than Ivy League Boston? Its not quality of education, its about reputation and networking with the right people. That is how we maintain the status quo of making the rich richer and the rest, poorer.

[geriatrickid]

My own observation is that graduate students that attend a foreign university, e.g. a Thai pursuing an MSc. in Australia, or a Chinese pursuing a doctorate in the USA, will be of much better all around quality than the same type grad student either locally or in the foreigner's native land. Thai students that select foreign graduate schools are just as good as students from elsewhere. This then suggests to me, that the issue is the educational system itself that needs some work.

One of my friends was completing his B. Comm on weekends. It was incredibly difficult to juggle classes on the weekends while working full time. I was in disbelief when I reviewed his schedule. They actually sent his class up north to spend a weekend learning songs and dances. Thai universities waste so much time on useless unproductive activities. Where else do they have students spend days decorating for school ceremonies? I do understand the need to have respect for professors, but seriously, is a whole day needed to have a ceremony where students give flowers to the instructor? Walk into the science faculties at most Thai universities and the lab facilities are primitive. (Yes, Mahidol and Chula are well equipped), but they don't have the same equipment in KK or Phuket. I also notice that wealthy Thais do not contribute to universities in Thailand in the same way they do in the west. There is no community partnership. Look at the best universities in the world. They have donors and endowments. Harvard has the largest endowment in the world I believe. German universities have wonderful facilities donated by various companies, Canadian universities have buildings built by grateful graduates, Australian universities have their generous alumni and Thailand has what? A university is a reflection upon the local community. In Thailand, it's ugly.

[kerryk]

My own observation is that graduate students that attend a foreign university, e.g. a Thai pursuing an MSc. in Australia, or a Chinese pursuing a doctorate in the USA, will be of much better all around quality than the same type grad student either locally or in the foreigner's native land. Thai students that select foreign graduate schools are just as good as students from elsewhere. This then suggests to me, that the issue is the educational system itself that needs some work.

One of my friends was completing his B. Comm on weekends. It was incredibly difficult to juggle classes on the weekends while working full time. I was in disbelief when I reviewed his schedule. They actually sent his class up north to spend a weekend learning songs and dances. Thai universities waste so much time on useless unproductive activities. Where else do they have students spend days decorating for school ceremonies? I do understand the need to have respect for professors, but seriously, is a whole day needed to have a ceremony where students give flowers to the instructor? Walk into the science faculties at most Thai universities and the lab facilities are primitive. (Yes, Mahidol and Chula are well equipped), but they don't have the same equipment in KK or Phuket. I also notice that wealthy Thais do not contribute to universities in Thailand in the same way they do in the west. There is no community partnership. Look at the best universities in the world. They have donors and endowments. Harvard has the largest endowment in the world I believe. German universities have wonderful facilities donated by various companies, Canadian universities have buildings built by grateful graduates, Australian universities have their generous alumni and Thailand has what? A university is a reflection upon the local community. In Thailand, it's ugly.

You sound like you know what you are talking about but do you? What do you know about CP in Thailand? What do you know about their education policies? What CP employees go to school free? Where and for how long? How many? How much money does Charoen Pokphand Group put into education? How many companies in Thailand make free education available to employees?

Then there is the German thing. Australia is ranked 8^th, the UK 10^th and Germany 17^th? Why is that?

How many colleges have you been to in Khon Kaen? Do you know how many have exchange programs with Japanese medical schools?

You act like an expert but I don't think you are. Anecdotal evidence from a couple of people is hardly conclusive.

Maybe you are an expert. I don't know. But some credentials would be nice to review if in fact you do know what you are talking about.

[khaowong1]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

I agree with your surprise at the results. Hard to judge as we don't know the validity of the criteria or if they're comparing "apples for apples". I know 2 Thais who were awarded Masters degrees from Austrailian Universities, and one Chinese. Their English is very poor and they would have struggled to get a similar degree in the US or UK so I'm not so sure about the Aussie standards. But, no doubt everyone has a story.

Probably completely off topic, but to comment on "this" story is the Prime Minister, who has a Masters from a US university and has a lot of trouble with her English.

[surangw]

thai grades are sold for how much these days?

[kerryk]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

I agree with your surprise at the results. Hard to judge as we don't know the validity of the criteria or if they're comparing "apples for apples". I know 2 Thais who were awarded Masters degrees from Austrailian Universities, and one Chinese. Their English is very poor and they would have struggled to get a similar degree in the US or UK so I'm not so sure about the Aussie standards. But, no doubt everyone has a story.

Probably completely off topic, but to comment on "this" story is the Prime Minister, who has a Masters from a US university and has a lot of trouble with her English.

Since there more than 7,000 colleges in the US and 15 million students it might be a stretch to base your evaluation of the US education system on one lady and one college. However I am sure most the the Thai Visa posters would agree with you as they seem to use the same form of anti Yingluck and anti US statistical analysis. In other words if it has anything to do with Yingluck or America it must be bad.

Although it should also be noted that Yingluck's Thai also freaks out most educated Thais.

Edited May 16, 2012 by kerryk

[AZBill]

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

Even Canada beat you! Better than the US? Please!!!!!

[KeyserSoze01]

strange, in the US you pay 20 to 50.000 $ dollar per year to attend uni, in most European countries, everybody who finished high school can attend for as almost 0 - 500 euros per year as subscription fee

so, the best schools for elite only ?

Yes, as it has always been and will always be. Next question.