Thailand Elite Card: TAT Hopes To Present Revamped Project To Cabinet By End Of May

[jerrysteve]

[timewilltell]

"The management of this scheme carries a clear message. Do NOT believe what Thai's promise (particularly if they want your cash up front), Do NOT do business in Thailand, do not invest in Thailand and do not show any faith in the Thai government.

last phrase maybe but don't tar an entire country and people just because we have morons running the place.

Well actually you do have to tar the entire country because if you invest here then it will be the government who set the rules and directives to discriminate against your company and against you personally in so many ways and secondly because the people who live in this society have accepted corruption into their lives at least to the extent - 'If you can't beat them, join them'. So I think the original posters comments actually did not quite go far enough.

[soi41]

If he actually had any dosh, he wouldn't live in Soi 41.

An old bBc comedy show used to have a voice that shouted, "Don't you believe it"

Empty vessels and all that. Must be a member of the Thai gov.

Just back from Nana? Believe it or not there are other Soi 41's than Sukhumvit. What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon Palace and the beach ? With posters like you, there are no need for old BBC comedies. Time for a little water in the ballast tanks !

[baboon]

If he actually had any dosh, he wouldn't live in Soi 41.

An old bBc comedy show used to have a voice that shouted, "Don't you believe it"

Empty vessels and all that. Must be a member of the Thai gov.

Just back from Nana? Believe it or not there are other Soi 41's than Sukhumvit. What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon Palace and the beach ? With posters like you, there are no need for old BBC comedies. Time for a little water in the ballast tanks !

What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon palace and the beach?

[soi41]

If he actually had any dosh, he wouldn't live in Soi 41.

An old bBc comedy show used to have a voice that shouted, "Don't you believe it"

Empty vessels and all that. Must be a member of the Thai gov.

Just back from Nana? Believe it or not there are other Soi 41's than Sukhumvit. What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon Palace and the beach ? With posters like you, there are no need for old BBC comedies. Time for a little water in the ballast tanks !

What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon palace and the beach?

Soi 41 !!

[p_brownstone]

The best way for Thailand to continue to ruinits reputation in the global community as a bungling, inept, backwards, and xenophobic country would be to abolish the Thailand Elite car, which has already sold >2,500 lifetime of benefits at 1,000,000Thai Baht each to the wealthiest and most influential investors in Thailand. Are these really the 2500 people Thailand wants to royal piss off? They don't want their money back -- they want the privileged and benefits they paid for. Its no worth any law suits or more bad PR -- rather at least just honor these memberships already sold. Otherwise they risk the most severe and significant downgrade in the highest end segment of foreign Thai investors, which could cripple the Thai economy.

The smart move would be to keep Thai Elite going, even if the program itself has a loss. The overall benefit in terms of infux of huge foreign capital investment alone is worth it.

Total nonsense.

In the first place a very large number of the Cards were given away free to sports stars, personalities etc..

Secondly I frankly do not believe that most of the "Elite" who paid for this Card are intelligent Investors - in the Thai Economy or elsewhere.

Any competent Investor would look at the supposed benefits of the Card and immediately realise that it was totally unsustainable and simply could not last - "Free" Health checks, "Free" Golf Course Fees, "Free" Limousine transport and supplementary Airtickets etc. etc., that's the clear red flag! Nothing is "Free"; the costs of all these benefits must be paid by the TPC Company to the provider of the service. Some lucky Cardholders boasted on this and other Forums that they had quickly earned back their "Investment" by using these "Free" Services, good for them, perhaps they saw the flaws in the scheme, but now those not so fortunate whine that the Card is in trouble and benefits are being reduced or limited and cannot understand why.

TPC has no Income apart from the Fees paid by new Members, it's basically a Ponzi scheme which must inevitably collapse once money received from new Members dries up.

I sympathise with the Cardholders who paid but have absolutely no respect for them as Businessmen!

Patrick

Edited May 17, 2012 by p_brownstone

[baboon]

If he actually had any dosh, he wouldn't live in Soi 41.

An old bBc comedy show used to have a voice that shouted, "Don't you believe it"

Empty vessels and all that. Must be a member of the Thai gov.

Just back from Nana? Believe it or not there are other Soi 41's than Sukhumvit. What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon Palace and the beach ? With posters like you, there are no need for old BBC comedies. Time for a little water in the ballast tanks !

What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon palace and the beach?

Soi 41 !!

Yees...And?

[Thai at Heart]

The best way for Thailand to continue to ruinits reputation in the global community as a bungling, inept, backwards, and xenophobic country would be to abolish the Thailand Elite car, which has already sold >2,500 lifetime of benefits at 1,000,000Thai Baht each to the wealthiest and most influential investors in Thailand. Are these really the 2500 people Thailand wants to royal piss off? They don't want their money back -- they want the privileged and benefits they paid for. Its no worth any law suits or more bad PR -- rather at least just honor these memberships already sold. Otherwise they risk the most severe and significant downgrade in the highest end segment of foreign Thai investors, which could cripple the Thai economy.

The smart move would be to keep Thai Elite going, even if the program itself has a loss. The overall benefit in terms of infux of huge foreign capital investment alone is worth it.

Total nonsense.

In the first place a very large number of the Cards were given away free to sports stars, personalities etc..

Secondly I frankly do not believe that most of the "Elite" who paid for this Card are intelligent Investors - in the Thai Economy or elsewhere.

Any competent Investor would look at the supposed benefits of the Card and immediately realise that it was totally unsustainable and simply could not last - "Free" Health checks, "Free" Golf Course Fees, "Free" Limousine transport and supplementary Airtickets etc. etc., that's the clear red flag! Nothing is "Free"; the costs of all these benefits must be paid by the TPC Company to the provider of the service. Some lucky Cardholders boasted on this and other Forums that they had quickly earned back their "Investment" by using these "Free" Services, good for them, perhaps they saw the flaws in the scheme, but now those not so fortunate whine that the Card is in trouble and benefits are being reduced or limited and cannot understand why.

TPC has no Income apart from the Fees paid by new Members, it's basically a Ponzi scheme which must inevitably collapse once money received from new Members dries up.

I sympathise with the Cardholders who paid but have absolutely no respect for them as Businessmen!

Patrick

Lifetime memberships?

They may work with gyms, because 80% of the people stop going, but, in this case where the benefits were so numerous and ongoing, there was absolutely no way that 1mn baht was going to pay for all of those benefits forever. By now, if the company was private, it would have been wound up, sold, and the terms of the memberships changed just like every other lifetime membership company works, and the original owners sitting pretty on a beach somewhere. In a good way, doing business with the government was an advantage, because they don't want to be seen to act in quite such a weasly way, although I wouldn't hold my breath.

[animatic]

I have a friend who is a Thailand Elite card member and he is very complimentary to the quality of services offered to the members. As published in the Bangkok Post on the 26th April, 2012, however, "A member survey by TPC found 51% of cardholders found the company's closure acceptable, 23% did not, and 26% had no comment."

My friend was one of the 26% "no comments" as the questionnaire was poorly written and offered a choice of a) Accept dissolution and a refund (with no amount specified) or Happy for the card to continue (no mention of further reduced benefits).

So the Thai government have decided to continue a long bankrupt scheme that 77% of members have no/little interest in continuing PLUS are planning to reduce benefits for interested members further. Is this sensible to any race/culture/business?

The management of this scheme carries a clear message. Do NOT believe what Thai's promise (particularly if they want your cash up front), Do NOT do business in Thailand, do not invest in Thailand and do not show any faith in the Thai government.

Early adopters in all Ponzi Schemes are all very complimentary.

It is those screwed on the back end that understand the game best.

[Soi Sauce]

If he actually had any dosh, he wouldn't live in Soi 41.

An old bBc comedy show used to have a voice that shouted, "Don't you believe it"

Empty vessels and all that. Must be a member of the Thai gov.

Just back from Nana? Believe it or not there are other Soi 41's than Sukhumvit. What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon Palace and the beach ? With posters like you, there are no need for old BBC comedies. Time for a little water in the ballast tanks !

What about Hua Hin, next to Klai Kangwon palace and the beach?

Retirees near the beach?

I can afford Bkk.

Or has Thailand's Eastbourne got a lot to offer?

[gerry1011]

This program was a great idea.

The problem, in my opinion, is that, from the beginning, the Elite Card was too cheap, and there was obviously something wrong in the management of the TPC company.

The card should be more expensive, target only high spending people, offer less "discounts" aimed at the "perks seekers", and concentrate on just a few key services, like the ones that make life of the members hassle free, the visa and quick transfer at airports...

There should be an annual fee of at least 100.000b...

But the best part of the TE program may still be the comments we can read on this forum. It was more virulent in the past though

Many on this forum were predicting (several times) the death of the program... Well that day has not come yet. Members can thank the new (in fact the old) government

[theblether]

Make the Elite Card worthwhile........grant permanent residency to those that purchase it. You would see it take off then huh?

[scorecard]

The best way for Thailand to continue to ruinits reputation in the global community as a bungling, inept, backwards, and xenophobic country would be to abolish the Thailand Elite car, which has already sold >2,500 lifetime of benefits at 1,000,000Thai Baht each to the wealthiest and most influential investors in Thailand. Are these really the 2500 people Thailand wants to royal piss off? They don't want their money back -- they want the privileged and benefits they paid for. Its no worth any law suits or more bad PR -- rather at least just honor these memberships already sold. Otherwise they risk the most severe and significant downgrade in the highest end segment of foreign Thai investors, which could cripple the Thai economy.

The smart move would be to keep Thai Elite going, even if the program itself has a loss. The overall benefit in terms of infux of huge foreign capital investment alone is worth it.

Total nonsense.

In the first place a very large number of the Cards were given away free to sports stars, personalities etc..

Secondly I frankly do not believe that most of the "Elite" who paid for this Card are intelligent Investors - in the Thai Economy or elsewhere.

Any competent Investor would look at the supposed benefits of the Card and immediately realise that it was totally unsustainable and simply could not last - "Free" Health checks, "Free" Golf Course Fees, "Free" Limousine transport and supplementary Airtickets etc. etc., that's the clear red flag! Nothing is "Free"; the costs of all these benefits must be paid by the TPC Company to the provider of the service. Some lucky Cardholders boasted on this and other Forums that they had quickly earned back their "Investment" by using these "Free" Services, good for them, perhaps they saw the flaws in the scheme, but now those not so fortunate whine that the Card is in trouble and benefits are being reduced or limited and cannot understand why.

TPC has no Income apart from the Fees paid by new Members, it's basically a Ponzi scheme which must inevitably collapse once money received from new Members dries up.

I sympathise with the Cardholders who paid but have absolutely no respect for them as Businessmen!

Patrick

Interesting word 'businessmen':

- Schemes like this are way too complex for gov't beaurocrats to manage, and they don't have the knowledge or experience to do so.

- One of the biggest problems is the costing and the cost volativity of the 'services' offered, plus no guarantee that the service providors will even continue, many have stiff competition, plus other providors regularly changing the services to appear to be more attractive and to try to keep and/or enhance their market share.

- Califormia WOW comes to mind - many farang who post on this board have, over the years, believed that a 'lifetime membership' was a great bargain, when in reality they should have been realising that this business model was unsustainable.

Edited May 27, 2012 by scorecard

[midas]

The best way for Thailand to continue to ruinits reputation in the global community as a bungling, inept, backwards, and xenophobic country would be to abolish the Thailand Elite car, which has already sold >2,500 lifetime of benefits at 1,000,000Thai Baht each to the wealthiest and most influential investors in Thailand. Are these really the 2500 people Thailand wants to royal piss off? They don't want their money back -- they want the privileged and benefits they paid for. Its no worth any law suits or more bad PR -- rather at least just honor these memberships already sold. Otherwise they risk the most severe and significant downgrade in the highest end segment of foreign Thai investors, which could cripple the Thai economy.

The smart move would be to keep Thai Elite going, even if the program itself has a loss. The overall benefit in terms of infux of huge foreign capital investment alone is worth it.

Total nonsense.

In the first place a very large number of the Cards were given away free to sports stars, personalities etc..

Secondly I frankly do not believe that most of the "Elite" who paid for this Card are intelligent Investors - in the Thai Economy or elsewhere.

Any competent Investor would look at the supposed benefits of the Card and immediately realise that it was totally unsustainable and simply could not last - "Free" Health checks, "Free" Golf Course Fees, "Free" Limousine transport and supplementary Airtickets etc. etc., that's the clear red flag! Nothing is "Free"; the costs of all these benefits must be paid by the TPC Company to the provider of the service. Some lucky Cardholders boasted on this and other Forums that they had quickly earned back their "Investment" by using these "Free" Services, good for them, perhaps they saw the flaws in the scheme, but now those not so fortunate whine that the Card is in trouble and benefits are being reduced or limited and cannot understand why.

TPC has no Income apart from the Fees paid by new Members, it's basically a Ponzi scheme which must inevitably collapse once money received from new Members dries up.

I sympathise with the Cardholders who paid but have absolutely no respect for them as Businessmen!

Patrick

Interesting word 'businessmen':

- Schemes like this are way too complex for gov't beaurocrats to manage, and they don't have the knowledge or experience to do so.

- One of the biggest problems is the costing and the cost volativity of the 'services' offered, plus no guarantee that the service providors will even continue, many have stiff competition, plus other providors regularly changing the services to appear to be more attractive and to try to keep and/or enhance their market share.

- Califormia WOW comes to mind - many farang who post on this board have, over the years, believed that a 'lifetime membership' was a great bargain, when in reality they should have been realising that this business model was unsustainable.

Are they are going to try to charge a lump sum again?

why do they need all the money up front ? it is only a piece of plastic...

They dont have manufacturing costs ??

Why dont they charge a more modest annual fee like Amex does ?

Perhaps this gesture would signify a hope at least they will be

there for the long term.

It looks to me like they want to take the money and run

[gand]

It appears 'lifetime', gets shorter and shorter. Should the elite card be added to the list of scams in the LOS?

[Jayman]

What needs to be made clear is the "lifetime" they are talking about is the life time of the company selling the program. Not the lifetime of the purchaser.

[IMA_FARANG]

In your time around the bars did you ever run into one of those bargirls who "liked" you and wanted to go with you "tonight, but you no pay me"?

Of course you knew it was a scam amd imeadiately the alarm bells started ringing when she said that.

Same thing with the "Thai Elite Card" scam.

The first time I rread about it the alarm bells were sounding loud.

I knew right away they couldn't possibly provide the LIFETIME benefits they promised on what they wanted me to pay.

Still the same today, as far as I can see.

I didn't then, and certainly don't today, have the money to invest anyhow.

But I said then it was a scam, and will say today that, unless the rules/benefits/and costs are chamged drastically; it's still a scam.

You have a better possibility of actually finding that bargirl.

[ginjag]

The idea itself isnt horrible, but the inept management and way the project was fund once for lifetime use is just doomed to failure..

A government approved system, providing red carpet visa service, investment links, path to PR and citizenship (these are the kind of people for citizenship apps surely) etc etc Is a problem crying out for a solution.. Look at the Malayasia my second home or brazilian investment schemes..

Of course if its going to be a badly run, ill funded, ill defined idea without any clear mandate from government run by xenephobic rules.. Its also doomed to failure.

2 simple step would make them a fortune.

Allow the card holder life time multiple entry visa

And right to own up to a limit of a half a rai of land. Easy

Land limit would be to allay fears of foreigners (taking over Thailand, farms, food supply, inflation etc.)

Agree with you, BUT in Thailand on the face of it-they want to make it so difficult EVEN for people living here and spending most of their earnings, with additional 300 ,000 bht over and above the normal price of a car, and more. More short term stays are different as the immigration 30 days-air-15 day-land seems fair.

[Soutpeel]

The really sad thing about the Thai Elite concept was that it actually was a good idea..but poorly executed...Farangs b*tch about having access to long term visa's in Thailand, so give it to them in a sliding scale...1 year @ X $......etc right up to the life time deal..

Forget about all the freebie sh*t with golf courses and massages, long term visa per year will cost you X amount

[xbusman]

Wait a darn tootin minnit.

Lets looks at numbers, numbers can set you free.

For lifetime membership, it has to be set up trust fund fashion and run from earnings, not the capital. So lets looks at the program as if it were not a scam but instead an investment proposal.

If each membership costs a million baht, and lets say they actually can get some 2000 paying customers. Thats a capitalization of 2,000,000,000 baht, a tidy sum. Lets put that in rock solid Thai bonds at say 3.8%, thats a rough and dirty guesstimate but good enough for internet chatter. That means you have an operating budget of 76,000,000 baht without touching the fund.

Lets snark out bare minimum overhead first cause its an image business, like a bank, nothing but marble lobbies and a phone. So you need a nice office with a few cozies and a pot o tea. Lets put it someplace expensive within walking distance of the most customers possible. I am going to say 400,000 per month because I think its in high rent area and I need secure parking.

Cars, I think we need three and maybe a van. Have to be all new and I am going to budget them at 20,000 each per month and keep them new. So thats about 100,000 baht including gas and oil.

So as best I can tell, 500,000 baht monthly is about right for fixed costs. Now you know we have more fixed costs than that. All sorts of things to pad the budget but for the sake of a quick and dirty review lets move on.

Lets look at variable operating costs.

Peeples.

We have a phone bank, to keep one full time and one back up at all times, I think we can cover the help line with four full time employees. Since this is Thailand, lets make it 6. Working in a prestige office for a quasi government organization with access, we should be able to get six full time MBAs with fluent English for under 20k monthly. For the sake of argument, lets load them in at 30k monthly and I dont think anyone in TV will argue much that we can fill the spots. Thats 180k monthly salaries.

Need a staff of a few progeny of the puu yi to keep things operating. Lets do five of em so we can the work done of two people. Customer service, sales, office manager, coffee maker and cultural adviser. What I really need is sales and customer service so if we hire five we might get the work of two. For these children from Chula, lets budget 300k per month. Worth every satang...

Transportation is important. We have cars, need drivers. Drives who can actually drive, sit up straight, speak a wee bit of English, and willing to show up a few days every week will be expensive. Lets budget 15k each and I think you will need to have 4 to be able to provide transport 24/7. 60k monthly.

We need a bookkeeper, office cleaner, receptionist (probably the key job in the whole smear), and dont forget the pretty young thing who no one is quite sure what she does. We can add a marketing advertising admin and/or an IT admin if you feel up to it. Lets just load in 6 more warm bodies for the heck of it and call it 100k per month.

So payroll should be inside 550k monthly.

So right now for fixed and payroll, we are running around 1M monthly.

Now lets add all those pesky operating costs that can sink most businesses so quick.

We have to put in everything from website development to coffee beans. Paper clips, rubber bands and buddhist monk blessings. Business cards, golf hats, toilet paper for the lunch room and a few chickens for the spirit house. If it were a real money making business, bet I could keep it under 200,000 per month but its not, its the Thailand Elite so we need to keep inside a budget of 500,000 per month. Again, doubt I could get any disagreement that even the worse manager could not waste more than that.

So... drum roll please.... I think the operating budget should be about 2M per month and I think it could be done for about 1.5M.

That leaves us with at 52,000,000 baht to provide customers services. Its a reasonable assumption that most are not permanent residents, that most are mainly interested in the visa and contacts which in essence are free of cost to the company, and that the 80/20 rule will apply. Other than an occasional airport pick up and a visa every five years, you will never hear from 80% of the members. The other 20% will avail themselves of the service, thats about 400 folks. Of those, about 320 will be a pleasure and use up about 20% of your time. About 80 of them will be trouble and 10 of them a complete pain in the ass eating up around 80 percent of your staffs time.

So what additional expenses can we expect to incur servicing this moron of elites (would that be like a murder of crows? I am open to other groupings, perhaps a pompous of elites?) Well we know about the golf games and massages. I am willing to do an average of 2 golf games and 3 massages per active elite per month and I will raise you a movie ticket or two if you ask nice. I am going out on a limb here but lets say 200 rounds of golf and 400 massages per month. We can negotiate some good rates and lets put the bill at 500,000 monthly. Then, to be safe, lets double it and put the savings into our yearly golf outing and holistic massage retreat. 1 million per month to take care of Mr. Cranky should do nicely.

So where are we.... Oh yes, we are currently burning through around 2.5M of cash baht every month. Lets add another 500,000 baht monthly slush fund to help the manager keep it on the rails. That will get Mr. Cranky out of Lumpini lock up when he punches someone in Nana, help persuade the right customs agent to meet with our enraged parts manufacturer, get someone to finally pick up Mr. Obsessive Compulsives laundry, and all the other things that help to make Thailand work like the rest of the world.

Okay, I think 3M a month is called for. Thats 36 million a year. That will leave us an operating profit of around 40 million baht which should be reinvested into the "trust" fund to keep up with inflation.

If you ask me, just by the numbers, the Elite program was very possible. After all, the only real service they offered was a five year visa and that, for the Thai government is FREE!

In summary, I think the program was potentially very viable and lucrative. Managed and operated properly, it could have been very successful providing access to the right people in Thai government and more importantly for Thailand, giving access for the Thai government to the right investors and keeping track of them. I would have taken that 40m and built an exclusive club environment for my clients someplace in the city and maybe the airport as well. I think it was a brilliant idea, selling something that is free, and adding some coffee and a lift, for a million baht. Only a government, and in this case the Thai government, could have created such a fiasco.

[Ricardo]

If they DO restart the scheme, I'd seriously-consider paying a one-off fee of B100,000 for the rights, to a 5-year visa-on-arrival & NO 90-day reporting, just to avoid in-future troubling Immigration ever-again. Forget the massages & golfing-rights & so-on !

It would cost the country zilch to provide, the cost of the ink for a stamp, in my passport (but would need to be transferred every 10 years).

Win-Win situation for me, Thai-Elite and the overworked Immigration-officers !

[softgeorge]

This card that the tourism authority are planning, is it like a frequent flyer scheme for tourist where they gain points by coming over frequently?

[stateofmind]

Any news on this?

I agree with many previous posters that the visa part is what's interesting here. I have absolutely no interest in limousine services, golfing privileges and so on. A priority lane at the immigration check-in would be nice, though. And perhaps some kind of Thai ID card. This would make it much easier to order Internet and phone subscriptions, buy cars/motorcycles, open bank accounts and so on.

I would be wiling to pay 1 million for this if it's lifetime (and I am quite sure many others would as well - there are plenty of people below 50 with these kind of resources). And if they are reluctant to give this deal away for life, what about a 5 year deal for 200k or whatever? Would be great.

[Rama]

Anyone heard anything real lately on the Elite card (no speculations or gossip)? There are a lot of Chinese that are looking to be able to park money outside of China, and a lifetime visa without perks that would be interested...........

[Langsuan Man]

Do you really think that anyone in their right mind would take a chance with the Thai Government and this whole elite card scam again

[JanKlaasen]

Anyone heard anything real lately on the Elite card (no speculations or gossip)? There are a lot of Chinese that are looking to be able to park money outside of China, and a lifetime visa without perks that would be interested...........

I'm afraid that in this case lifetime will have the same meaning as an California Wow lifetime membership

[Buchholz]

Do you really think that anyone in their right mind would take a chance with the Thai Government and this whole elite card scam again

I think that there would still be people willing to take a chance with this government's revival of a Thai Rak Thai baby.

I don't think they are in their right mind.

.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps farangs who've lived here for more-than five years, or married a Thai lady, might be offered a discount, having already made a 'down-payment' to the country as-it-were ?

Especially if they promise not to play golf when the poo-yais want to play ?

[Buchholz]

Do you really think that anyone in their right mind would take a chance with the Thai Government and this whole elite card scam again

I think that there would still be people willing to take a chance with this government's revival of a Thai Rak Thai baby.

I don't think they are in their right mind.

almost as if on cue... comes today's news... a Half A Billion Baht infusion into the dead horse...

Fugitive Ex-PM Thaksin's brainchild, the Elite Card scheme will stay

[stateofmind]

Why are so many people being negative about everything here in this site?

Please understand that for some people this card is not an expensive option. For some people, avoiding the visa hassle for a few years (even if it's not for life) is well worth the money.

I don't know if it is allowed to post links in this forum, but I found an article that basically says the membership would be 15 years, that it would cost 1.5 million baht, and that they are aiming to launch in 2013. The article claims that their target is 1000 new members a year from 2013 to 2016. Sounds achievable.

I can post the link here if it is requested and if it is allowed.