Phuket Tourists Left To Save Themselves From Dangerous Surf

[NomadJoe]

Which completely negates their credibility.

Don't understand that comment.

This means that in low season on both good and bad days the same signs are out. So on a good day somebody goes swimming, notices the seas ara calm and safe but there are warnings about. That means that on the next, bad day, the credibility of the warning signs has for him reduced to zero.

Safe signs should be there when it is safe, and warning signs when it is unsafe.

Aren't the warning sign there year round? Conditions can and do change by the hour... I never heard of the ocean being referred to as "safe" and I've lived by it and in it all my life.

I think stevenl is talking about the red flags and no swimming signs, not the general informational signs. There are many big warning signs explaining the flag system at many beach entrances, (as I know you know) but by no means all which are there year around as they are permanently fixed. The "No swimming" signs and the red flags, which is what we are talking about here, should be changed as the conditions change, but often are not. There will often be no flags when the surf is up making swimming more dangerous and not advisable and red flags/ no swimming signs up when the sea is calm. Thus no credibility to the signs.

Edited May 22, 2012 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

Funny. We have warning signs posted at our village's public pool! Maybe some days are more dangerous than others?

The discussion was about red "no swimming" flags and signs that say "no swimming" (actually a drawing). Would be rather odd to see those at your swimming pool I would think.

.

Edited May 22, 2012 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

Right on. We lost a relative not long ago in a pond. About 10 years old, but couldn't swim.

I stayed in Bang Tao and they had ANOTHER sign saying what the colors of the flags meant. It's pretty universal, unless you're from the frozen hinterlands???

lovetotravel, please explain what the 3 flags mean. Red, yellow, and red over yellow.

Edited May 22, 2012 by NomadJoe

[lovetotravel]

they do change. Red flags are put up when the seas are rough.

And they stay up when it is calm, hence lose their credibility. Get it yet?

I can say for all the beaches, and understand the red flags can be up all year. But during our month stay on Bang Tao beach, they were up and down. Up when the waves were ripping, and down when things were calm. Get it now? Just my personal experience.

Funny. We have warning signs posted at our village's public pool! Maybe some days are more dangerous than others?

The discussion was about red "no swimming" flags and signs that say "no swimming" (drawing). Would be rather odd to see those at your swimming pool I would think.

We have signs like these, which most public swimming pools have. Not odd at all, but I never said it had flags. Quite aware of the topic, but you just don't seem to want to let this go.

http://www.recreonics.com/safety_signs.htm

I'm signing off.

[NomadJoe]

Funny. We have warning signs posted at our village's public pool! Maybe some days are more dangerous than others?

When the majority can't swim very well, it's always dangerous.

Back to a few posts above, quite often in years past the lifeguards did not change the color of the flag.

Speaking of the coloured flags, how do most tourists know that the half yellow half red flag means it's the swimming zone? Most would take this as "cautious/be careful", not a safe swimming zone. Would it not make more sense to have green flags on either side of the "safe zone" then red flags outside of this area?

At least one information board has green flags listed as a notice that is is safe to swim, but I have never seen them used.

To complicate things further, in the busy high season the jet ski operators use the same red flags with "no swimming" on them as a way to keep an area clear for their jet ski's. At these times the sea is usually as flat as a lake.

Edited May 22, 2012 by NomadJoe

[LadyinRed]

Please explain what the 3 flags mean. Red, yellow, and red over yellow.

As I understood the area between red+yellow flags are patrolled by lifeguards so it's ok to swim between these flags.

Plain red flags means danger do not go in, etc.

Yellow- I am not sure.

I am curious to know if there is an 'international' standard to the types of beach flags to use or is this determined by a country/ region basis? E.g. In Australia you can swim between red+yellow flags, but in Nai Harn the waves were roaring with white boiling fury between the red+yellow flags and I did not see lifeguards in the tower (granted perhaps they were not in the tower per se).

[NomadJoe]

And they stay up when it is calm, hence lose their credibility. Get it yet?

I can say for all the beaches, and understand the red flags can be up all year. But during our month stay on Bang Tao beach, they were up and down. Up when the waves were ripping, and down when things were calm. Get it now? Just my personal experience.

I get that your personal experience over a single month is not typical thus your comments "they do change. Red flags are put up when the seas are rough." is inaccurate. We haven't even had lifeguards on duty for several weeks until yesterday, so there has been no one to change these flags as needed. This happens every year as the new contract goes through a bidding process. 2 people drowned last week alone and many of us living here, myself included, have had to personally get involved with rescues because of this and it's getting a little frustrating. Maybe guards and flags and signs could have helped, maybe not. We should at least give these tourists a fighting chance.

[lovetotravel]

lovetotravel, please explain what the 3 flags mean. Red, yellow, and red over yellow.

I actually have no idea! So, I looked it up on google:

Warning Flags

• Red Flag: Dangerous for Bathing
  
• Red/Yellow Flag: Lifeguard on Duty
  
• No Flag: No Lifeguards on Duty
  

I just know red means danger! And when it was out, it was really rough. When I was there, somebody died every week. Just like today. I just read an article about that young frenchman. Very sad. Got caught in a rip.

[lovetotravel]

And they stay up when it is calm, hence lose their credibility. Get it yet?

I can say for all the beaches, and understand the red flags can be up all year. But during our month stay on Bang Tao beach, they were up and down. Up when the waves were ripping, and down when things were calm. Get it now? Just my personal experience.

I get that your personal experience over a single month is not typical thus your comments "they do change. Red flags are put up when the seas are rough." is inaccurate. We haven't even had lifeguards on duty for several weeks until yesterday, so there has been no one to change these flags as needed. This happens every year as the new contract goes through a bidding process. 2 people drowned last week alone and many of us living here, myself included, have had to personally get involved with rescues because of this and it's getting a little frustrating. Maybe guards and flags and signs could have helped, maybe not. We should at least give these tourists a fighting chance.

And this was 3-4 years ago. So not valid for the current situation, I 100% agree! It is absolutely incomprehensible that the authorities don't do something about this. Too many lives lost when just a small amount of money could prevent it.

But as was mentioned above, no matter how many signs you have, no matter how many lifeguards you have, swimming is dangerous. Especially in the ocean. Accidents are going to happen. Kinda like driving to the grocery store????

[steelepulse]

lovetotravel, please explain what the 3 flags mean. Red, yellow, and red over yellow.

I actually have no idea! So, I looked it up on google:

Warning Flags

• Red Flag: Dangerous for Bathing
  
• Red/Yellow Flag: Lifeguard on Duty
  
• No Flag: No Lifeguards on Duty
  

I just know red means danger! And when it was out, it was really rough. When I was there, somebody died every week. Just like today. I just read an article about that young frenchman. Very sad. Got caught in a rip.

Let's hope everyone brings their 3g phone to the beach and checks with google about the flags before deciding the surf looks safe . Seriously though, the lifeguards often get lazy when it's time to change the flags ( I've seen it for years now) so it's tough for tourists to give them any credibility when no matter the condition of the sea, the colour of flag is always the same.

[NomadJoe]

lovetotravel, please explain what the 3 flags mean. Red, yellow, and red over yellow.

I actually have no idea! So, I looked it up on google:

Warning Flags

• Red Flag: Dangerous for Bathing
  
• Red/Yellow Flag: Lifeguard on Duty
  
• No Flag: No Lifeguards on Duty
  

I just know red means danger! And when it was out, it was really rough. When I was there, somebody died every week. Just like today. I just read an article about that young frenchman. Very sad. Got caught in a rip.

It was a trick question. They are in fact NOT universal, at least not in Phuket. In fact different signs on Phuket actually give the same flags different meanings! Their is in fact an international standard established by the International Lifesaving Foundation (ILF) Obviously the important one is the red flag and the signs on Phuket are somewhat uniform enough on that one. When we start getting into the yellow and yellow/red, it starts to get murky.

The Red flag depending on what sign you read means: "Dangerous sea" or it means "Beach closed, do not enter water." or "No swimming" or "NEVER under any circumstance enter the water." However ILF defines a red flag slightly differently: "High hazard. Rough conditions such as strong surf and/or currents are present. All swimmers are discouraged from entering the water. Those entering the water should take great care."

The Yellow flag is omitted from some signs around Phuket, but others in Phuket define it alternately as: "Warning:Potentially Dangerous Conditions" and "Warning:No lifeguard on duty but swimming is allowed." The ILF defines it as "Medium hazard. Moderate surf and/or currents are present. Weak swimmers are discouraged from entering the water. For others, enhanced care and caution should be exercised."

The red over yellow flag is what stumps most people but the signs are pretty uniform on this one. "Swimming is between two flags" and "Patrolled area: the safest swimming area." ILF says "Recommended swimming area with lifeguard supervision" so were good on that one.

I don't have a picture of it, but yesterday at Nai Harn I noticed the flag warning signboard there had a symbol near the bottom which looked to me like it was telling us "No trousers." At least they are trying, but there is room for improvement.

The ambiguity of the bottom sign board here is concerning to me in that it has the permanent "No Swimming" notice on the left, yet it also has the flag explanation on the right. So it's saying that whenever this board is up, which is all monsoon season, there is no swimming. But what about the days where there is no flags, or yellow flags? Makes me think the designers of it made it this way so that in case of any drowning they could point to the board and say "See! Says no swimming!"

Edited May 22, 2012 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

lovetotravel, please explain what the 3 flags mean. Red, yellow, and red over yellow.

I actually have no idea! So, I looked it up on google:

Warning Flags

• Red Flag: Dangerous for Bathing
  
• Red/Yellow Flag: Lifeguard on Duty
  
• No Flag: No Lifeguards on Duty
  

I just know red means danger! And when it was out, it was really rough. When I was there, somebody died every week. Just like today. I just read an article about that young frenchman. Very sad. Got caught in a rip.

Let's hope everyone brings their 3g phone to the beach and checks with google about the flags before deciding the surf looks safe . Seriously though, the lifeguards often get lazy when it's time to change the flags ( I've seen it for years now) so it's tough for tourists to give them any credibility when no matter the condition of the sea, the colour of flag is always the same.

Wouldn't help as those are mostly wrong according to Phuket's signs.

[LivinginKata]

Off topic removed

[TaoNow]

I don't have any data to support this, but I would suspect that many of the drownings on Phuket's West coast during May to October are related to excessive alcohol consumption or otherwise unfit swimmers making risky judgments.

The point I'm trying to make is let's not make swimming during the monsoon season a hazard unless you are unprepared.

Edited May 23, 2012 by TaoNow

[Jimi007]

I don't have any data to support this, but I would suspect that many of the drownings on Phuket's West coast during May to October are related to excessive alcohol consumption or otherwise unfit swimmers making risky judgments.

The point I'm trying to make is let's not make swimming during the monsoon season a hazard unless you are unprepared.

I guess you could say that alcohol contributes to drownings any time of the year. But the west coast beaches during monsoon season have much larger surf and many more rip currents than in the "high" season when the winds are more from the east. Most tourists, Thai and westerners, never have been in the ocean, nor learned how to swim very well, which is just a deadly combination. Even those who do know how to swim but aren't familiar with the ocean are at high risk in many conditions that don't look too risky to the untrained eye. I always watch the water for quite a while, especially on bigger surf days as to where, if, and when I will go in. I also stick to beach areas I'm familiar with...

[wellred]

How does one get out of a rip?

[stevenl]

How does one get out of a rip?

Wait till it gets less strong, and then swim perpendicular out of it. Don't try to fight it, you'll lose that battle.

[Jimi007]

How does one get out of a rip?

Here's a basic informational site on rips and ocean safety: http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=23792

[louse1953]

The Phuket Lifeguard Club

What does this group do if it is not supplying lifeguards to the beaches?

It is certainly not supplying guards to hotels or public pools.

Phuket City can easily hire its own lifeguards and save on the administration costs and profits and bribes which are inherent in every government contract.

If the beach vendors are so concerned about loss of life (earnings), why don't they chip in to cover the costs, they would have a vested interest and make sure the job is done, unlike Phuket, where these guys are often found asleep at there lookout posts!

A little help from you wouldn't go astray.If you think that's how beach venders think,i don't know why you come or stay here.It's the govt. job to provide lifesavers.

[steelepulse]

I was at Nai Harn mid afternoon Wed and didn't see a single lifeguard, even though they were supposed to resume on Monday. Maybe they were getting equipment on Wednesday.

[NomadJoe]

I was at Nai Harn mid afternoon Wed and didn't see a single lifeguard, even though they were supposed to resume on Monday. Maybe they were getting equipment on Wednesday.

I thought so too but turns out it's next Monday.

[TaoNow]

What I object to is the de facto ban on swimming in red flag zones.

In order to avoid blame for not preventing a reckless tourist drowing, the beach guards and other powers-that-be will of course post red flags throughout the monsoon season on the West-coast beaches. Not in small part due to the moaning on forums like these.

Thus, denying thousands of visitors the pleasure of swimming in the beautiful Western coastal waters during May to October, in order to prevent a handful of incompentent folks from killing themselves.

Should we deny everyone the right to climb Mount Everest since some will die in the attempt?

By all means, warn people through multi-lingual notices provided to tourists when they check in during the monsoon season.

And let people swim -- at their own, informed risk.

[NomadJoe]

What I object to is the de facto ban on swimming in red flag zones.

In order to avoid blame for not preventing a reckless tourist drowing, the beach guards and other powers-that-be will of course post red flags throughout the monsoon season on the West-coast beaches. Not in small part due to the moaning on forums like these.

Thus, denying thousands of visitors the pleasure of swimming in the beautiful Western coastal waters during May to October, in order to prevent a handful of incompentent folks from killing themselves.

Should we deny everyone the right to climb Mount Everest since some will die in the attempt?

By all means, warn people through multi-lingual notices provided to tourists when they check in during the monsoon season.

And let people swim -- at their own, informed risk.

Unlike in the west, there is no legal obligation to not enter the water when the red flags or to disobey the orders of a guard. Obviously many people disregard them. By default then they are really just a warning. I disregard the flags on Kata when I feel like it is safe, like when the waves are no bigger than they are at the beaches I frequent back home. But I am a strong swimmer and have spent a lot of time in and around the ocean. I would never disregard the flags on Karon. That beach is very different, and gets very deep quickly with strong rips.

Also, red flags do not mean the ocean is closed to surfers or boogie boarders, only swimmers. They also don't mean you can't wade in a little. The problem arises when people, especially people that can not swim or are not in good physical condition don't know what "a little" should be and venture out to far. When my gf and I are deemed out to far by Kata guards, they blow their whistle and tell us to come in even when we can still touch the bottom. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. The guard then yells something like "Ok up to you but I'm not going to rescue you if you are drowning." Fair enough.

[HongKongPhooey]

What I object to is the de facto ban on swimming in red flag zones.

In order to avoid blame for not preventing a reckless tourist drowing, the beach guards and other powers-that-be will of course post red flags throughout the monsoon season on the West-coast beaches. Not in small part due to the moaning on forums like these.

Thus, denying thousands of visitors the pleasure of swimming in the beautiful Western coastal waters during May to October, in order to prevent a handful of incompentent folks from killing themselves.

Should we deny everyone the right to climb Mount Everest since some will die in the attempt?

By all means, warn people through multi-lingual notices provided to tourists when they check in during the monsoon season.

And let people swim -- at their own, informed risk.

Although I agree with your sentiment, NomadJoe is right. It's only a warning so they can quite rightly avoid being blamed for poor swimmers and drunk people not taking responsibility for themselves.

I personally have never been told to stop swimming while red flags were flying.

[Baloo22]

How does one get out of a rip?

Here's a basic informational site on rips and ocean safety: http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=23792

That's an excellent guide. Most rip currents dissapate just a little ways off-shore. Then you swim perpendicular to the shoreline and then try to swim in.

For those that may try and rescue a swimmer in distress, remember that you are doing a dangerous thing yourself. Make sure that you don't drown also. Happens frequently. Always try to find something that will float and push it out in front of you to the victim. Let them grab ahold of that. If they are in a panic and you get close they can end up climbing right on top of you and pushing you down. If it happens, just let yourself go down until you are too deep to provide a support for them. They will usually let go and then you can swim out from under them.