Bangkok: Huge Turnout Expected At Red-Shirt Rally Today

[geriatrickid]

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

You forgot to use the word "elderly".

You raise an interesting point and it is worth some consideration. I do agree that there are some elderly UDD supporters, but the turnout core is typically 25-40 years of age and skewed towards males. The more violent events seemed to involve 20-30 year olds. Look at some of the photos.

That's a demographic aspect that should concern people. My own impression is that the "violent" group comprises alot of underemployed/unemployed males. Whenever you have males in that age group involved in a protest there is always trouble. There wouldn't be any violence or problems if the demonstrators were all 40 years old or more.

If one wants to be rid of these demonstrators, one has to find suitable activities to occupy them. It is much easier for a low paid agricultural worker or a seasonal worker to go and protest than it is for a shopkeeper, or a factory worker or an office clerk. Thailand's labour economy still is dominated by the low paid agricultural worker and these people have nothing to lose when they leave the fields. I think we are about to see a summer of discontent in the west. Aside from Greece and its regular protests, look for Spain, where its youth segment is subject to 50% unemployment. Thailand has been able to avoid the massive idiocy of Greece until now, because the marginal employment helped to dull the discontent. However, as the economy hardens, I think we will see more young people participate in protest activities. National peace will require more gainful employment and therein lies the motivation for the attempt to increase basic wages.

[kerryk]

begin removed ...

It is only a handful of posters who are mainly political commentators as they rarely if ever start a topic. I guess they don't have original thoughts or don't know anything about Thailand. You know who you are. All of their comments are about politics. They have never had a question about anything else in Thailand. They only post in the news forum.

Frankly I don't understand the nasty stuff. Especially when it has to do with a women.

Normal posters cannot start a new topic in the "Thailand News" forum.

As for nasty stuff especially when it has to do about women, a bit of double standards there. If nasty things can and may be said of men who dabble in politics, why not about women who get into the arena?

There are forums on a myriad of subjects effecting people who live in Thailand on Thai Visa. I find it difficult to believe a person could be so myopic as to not have at least one question about something other than politics while living here.

It seems to me there is something else going on. Like I said, although I have posted on Thai Visa for quite a while I never ventured much into the realm of politics. You have been a member for 10 years and have over 6,000 posts and you have never started a topic. Does not that strike you as odd?

You are correct I do have a double standard. I never say nasty things about a woman. It is the way I was brought up. I can disagree without being nasty.

[rubl]

Normal posters cannot start a new topic in the "Thailand News" forum.

As for nasty stuff especially when it has to do about women, a bit of double standards there. If nasty things can and may be said of men who dabble in politics, why not about women who get into the arena?

There are forums on a myriad of subjects effecting people who live in Thailand on Thai Visa. I find it difficult to believe a person could be so myopic as to not have at least one question about something other than politics while living here.

It seems to me there is something else going on. Like I said, although I have posted on Thai Visa for quite a while I never ventured much into the realm of politics. You have been a member for 10 years and have over 6,000 posts and you have never started a topic. Does not that strike you as odd?

You are correct I do have a double standard. I never say nasty things about a woman. It is the way I was brought up. I can disagree without being nasty.

Getting a bit off topic, but ...

I think I once started a topic, but mostly I first search and find, which means no need to ask.

As for nasty things about women, my mother at 84 is still capable of pulling me by the ear for being impolite Mind you, with some verbal fluency it's possible to be both polite and politically correct and still devastate in a nicely phrased judgement

[noahvail]

Normal posters cannot start a new topic in the "Thailand News" forum.

As for nasty stuff especially when it has to do about women, a bit of double standards there. If nasty things can and may be said of men who dabble in politics, why not about women who get into the arena?

There are forums on a myriad of subjects effecting people who live in Thailand on Thai Visa. I find it difficult to believe a person could be so myopic as to not have at least one question about something other than politics while living here.

It seems to me there is something else going on. Like I said, although I have posted on Thai Visa for quite a while I never ventured much into the realm of politics. You have been a member for 10 years and have over 6,000 posts and you have never started a topic. Does not that strike you as odd?

You are correct I do have a double standard. I never say nasty things about a woman. It is the way I was brought up. I can disagree without being nasty.

Getting a bit off topic, but ...

I think I once started a topic, but mostly I first search and find, which means no need to ask.

As for nasty things about women, my mother at 84 is still capable of pulling me by the ear for being impolite Mind you, with some verbal fluency it's possible to be both polite and politically correct and still devastate in a nicely phrased judgement

Well said, Uncle!

[tlansford]

begin removed ...

It is only a handful of posters who are mainly political commentators as they rarely if ever start a topic. I guess they don't have original thoughts or don't know anything about Thailand. You know who you are. All of their comments are about politics. They have never had a question about anything else in Thailand. They only post in the news forum.

Frankly I don't understand the nasty stuff. Especially when it has to do with a women.

Normal posters cannot start a new topic in the "Thailand News" forum.

As for nasty stuff especially when it has to do about women, a bit of double standards there. If nasty things can and may be said of men who dabble in politics, why not about women who get into the arena?

There are forums on a myriad of subjects effecting people who live in Thailand on Thai Visa. I find it difficult to believe a person could be so myopic as to not have at least one question about something other than politics while living here.

It seems to me there is something else going on. Like I said, although I have posted on Thai Visa for quite a while I never ventured much into the realm of politics. You have been a member for 10 years and have over 6,000 posts and you have never started a topic. Does not that strike you as odd?

You are correct I do have a double standard. I never say nasty things about a woman. It is the way I was brought up. I can disagree without being nasty.

regarding women, I feel much the same for me. And regarding Rubl's comment, it is not a double standard to object to the overtly sexist slurs against a female PM which may or may not be mixed with other criticisms.

[rubl]

There are forums on a myriad of subjects effecting people who live in Thailand on Thai Visa. I find it difficult to believe a person could be so myopic as to not have at least one question about something other than politics while living here.

It seems to me there is something else going on. Like I said, although I have posted on Thai Visa for quite a while I never ventured much into the realm of politics. You have been a member for 10 years and have over 6,000 posts and you have never started a topic. Does not that strike you as odd?

You are correct I do have a double standard. I never say nasty things about a woman. It is the way I was brought up. I can disagree without being nasty.

Getting a bit off topic, but ...

I think I once started a topic, but mostly I first search and find, which means no need to ask.

As for nasty things about women, my mother at 84 is still capable of pulling me by the ear for being impolite Mind you, with some verbal fluency it's possible to be both polite and politically correct and still devastate in a nicely phrased judgement

Well said, Uncle!

(a few) years ago when I was drafted in the Netherlands army I once had a (one-sided) argument with a sergeant who told me I smiled too much and he didn't like it. About the only time I managed to keep my mouth shut, those 14 months

[Sunderland]

veena T. ‏@veen_NT

Red shirts have done their duty and now it's the end of the road, says Thaksin. via @jin_nation

Nothing like distancing yourself from all the promises you've made. A diplomatic way of saying, 'Cheers for your help. No 300 baht for you lot!'

[Thaddeus]

Normal posters cannot start a new topic in the "Thailand News" forum.

As for nasty stuff especially when it has to do about women, a bit of double standards there. If nasty things can and may be said of men who dabble in politics, why not about women who get into the arena?

There are forums on a myriad of subjects effecting people who live in Thailand on Thai Visa. I find it difficult to believe a person could be so myopic as to not have at least one question about something other than politics while living here.

It seems to me there is something else going on. Like I said, although I have posted on Thai Visa for quite a while I never ventured much into the realm of politics. You have been a member for 10 years and have over 6,000 posts and you have never started a topic. Does not that strike you as odd?

You are correct I do have a double standard. I never say nasty things about a woman. It is the way I was brought up. I can disagree without being nasty.

Getting a bit off topic, but ...

I think I once started a topic, but mostly I first search and find, which means no need to ask.

As for nasty things about women, my mother at 84 is still capable of pulling me by the ear for being impolite Mind you, with some verbal fluency it's possible to be both polite and politically correct and still devastate in a nicely phrased judgement

My mother, sadly for me at least, is no longer with us, she broke a leg when she was 72. She fell off a twenty foot ladder holding a Black & Decker power drill while she was putting up a hanging basket on the side of the house.

There is no comparison that can be made to this Barbie Doll currently in power, real women have balls and claws.

We currently have a sheep in sheep's clothing at the front, a pack of wolves close behind, and a flock of sheep following the lot..... with the odd weasel scattered about.

[KunMatt]

Thailand's 'Red Shirts' in mass Bangkok rally

The Red Shirts have called on the new government, led by Thaksin's sister Yingluck, to prosecute soldiers and officials responsible for causing the deaths and injuries, many to unarmed demonstrators.

So far no cases have been brought in connection with the violence and Yingluck's government has raised the prospect of an amnesty for those involved, prompting an outcry from human rights groups.

And so, the victors write the history books.

All Ive ever seen with this mob is violence and playing the victim.

They won, they got their way and they have their man in power as the PM. I dont see why they are allowed to bring central Bangkok to a standstill yet again, especially when they are 100% responsible for every death and act of destruction during the riots in Bangkok, and all of the deaths and destruction around the country during that time.

Well, its obvious WHY they are allowed to, its just a kick in the face for any regular person who was here at the time and had these terrorists affecting their life for a month, and all for the sake of a promised 500 baht which a lot of them never got.

[volk666]

A picture is worth a thousand words we are told. This particular image left me speechless,.

Do we now see the true face of the Red Shirt movement appearing led by a despotic character who resides outside of the Kingdom.

Graphic image courtesy of http://www.facebook....35060922&type=1

"Do we now see the true face of the Red Shirt movement appearing led by a despotic character who resides outside of the Kingdom."

no.

Actually we do see its real face - as clueless as ever about what they are doing. This image should be mandatory for any picture gallery regarding red shirts.

Imagine it appearing in the latest BBC report along with links to the earlier stories from 2010.

Would also be nice if they translated the names of all the reincarnations of TRT - Thai Love Thais, People Power, For Thailand or some variations thereof, next to this image, of course.

And yet someone in this thread argued that reds have a better understanding of democracy...

Also the number of grenade attacks and various explosions in Bangkok around the time of red protests is about a hundred. In several cases perpetrators were found and arrested, it was always red shirts.

Iranians are pussies by comparison - when reds blew themselves up once they took out an entire apartment building.

Re. the donations announced on red stage - once a Thai academic, from those who want to reform lese majeste, not the govt camp, did the calculations - the numbers didn't add up, reds had to have massive funding from other sources, the whole "revoluion" cost billions. One billion, just as a quick reference, is umm.... 30 years of daily donations of a hundred thousand baht per day.

[anterian]

Kerryk, I only arrived 9 years ago, previously I had been in Malaysia and Thailand. The first two years was a very steep learning curve, moving into a village a year later even more so.

When I first joined TV it was a surprise, the members seemed to be living in a different Thailand to me, in the village, apart from "Village politics", none seem interested, the lottery number is more important than political events, life is a mixture of alcohol, "sanook", sex, gossip and work, in about that order of priority. I sometimes wonder if the intensity of the TV farang members is a subconscious compensation for the political apathy of the average Thai. Sure there are passionate Red and Yellow Thais but I think most people realise they are a small fraction of the population.

As to topics, I rely on those provided in the daily email from the TV news editor. Here I notice that even when they are not political items a regular group of members seem to turn them into political vinegar

[OzMick]

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

You forgot to use the word "elderly".

You raise an interesting point and it is worth some consideration. I do agree that there are some elderly UDD supporters, but the turnout core is typically 25-40 years of age and skewed towards males. The more violent events seemed to involve 20-30 year olds. Look at some of the photos.

That's a demographic aspect that should concern people. My own impression is that the "violent" group comprises alot of underemployed/unemployed males. Whenever you have males in that age group involved in a protest there is always trouble. There wouldn't be any violence or problems if the demonstrators were all 40 years old or more.

If one wants to be rid of these demonstrators, one has to find suitable activities to occupy them. It is much easier for a low paid agricultural worker or a seasonal worker to go and protest than it is for a shopkeeper, or a factory worker or an office clerk. Thailand's labour economy still is dominated by the low paid agricultural worker and these people have nothing to lose when they leave the fields. I think we are about to see a summer of discontent in the west. Aside from Greece and its regular protests, look for Spain, where its youth segment is subject to 50% unemployment. Thailand has been able to avoid the massive idiocy of Greece until now, because the marginal employment helped to dull the discontent. However, as the economy hardens, I think we will see more young people participate in protest activities. National peace will require more gainful employment and therein lies the motivation for the attempt to increase basic wages.

The road to more gainful employment is better education, not raising the minimum wage - that's the road to inflation. Thailand could use a bit less of subsidising inefficient industries, and let market forces control the shape of the economy. but that's not the road to getting elected.

I agree the younger men are the volatiles in the mix, but when hasn't it been so?

BTW there is NO unemployment in Thailand, Kerry said so.

[OzMick]

A picture is worth a thousand words we are told. This particular image left me speechless,.

Do we now see the true face of the Red Shirt movement appearing led by a despotic character who resides outside of the Kingdom.

Graphic image courtesy of http://www.facebook....35060922&type=1

"Do we now see the true face of the Red Shirt movement appearing led by a despotic character who resides outside of the Kingdom."

no.

Actually we do see its real face - as clueless as ever about what they are doing. This image should be mandatory for any picture gallery regarding red shirts.

Imagine it appearing in the latest BBC report along with links to the earlier stories from 2010.

Would also be nice if they translated the names of all the reincarnations of TRT - Thai Love Thais, People Power, For Thailand or some variations thereof, next to this image, of course.

And yet someone in this thread argued that reds have a better understanding of democracy...

Also the number of grenade attacks and various explosions in Bangkok around the time of red protests is about a hundred. In several cases perpetrators were found and arrested, it was always red shirts.

Iranians are pussies by comparison - when reds blew themselves up once they took out an entire apartment building.

Re. the donations announced on red stage - once a Thai academic, from those who want to reform lese majeste, not the govt camp, did the calculations - the numbers didn't add up, reds had to have massive funding from other sources, the whole "revoluion" cost billions. One billion, just as a quick reference, is umm.... 30 years of daily donations of a hundred thousand baht per day.

If Sunderland's post is an accurate Thaksin quote and he is wiping them, no more funding, the red shirts are headed for the history books.

[anterian]

Ozmick, anything which does not conform to your particular agenda is drivel, in your opinion. However, mods permitting, we still have free speech, so I have to put up with your monotonous ranting drivel and you have to put up with mine.

You could just try not reading my comments

[OzMick]

Ozmick, anything which does not conform to your particular agenda is drivel, in your opinion. However, mods permitting, we still have free speech, so I have to put up with your monotonous ranting drivel and you have to put up with mine.

You could just try not reading my comments

Why? Occasionally you say something interesting, and almost always on topic, even if I don't agree with you. What I don't need to read is opiniated musings on the inadequacies of posters in the news section from someone who has gone from omnipotence to omniscience in one quick bound, but still can't carry out a logical argument.

[bigbamboo]

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

You forgot to use the word "elderly".

You raise an interesting point and it is worth some consideration. I do agree that there are some elderly UDD supporters, but the turnout core is typically 25-40 years of age and skewed towards males. The more violent events seemed to involve 20-30 year olds. Look at some of the photos.

That's a demographic aspect that should concern people. My own impression is that the "violent" group comprises alot of underemployed/unemployed males. Whenever you have males in that age group involved in a protest there is always trouble. There wouldn't be any violence or problems if the demonstrators were all 40 years old or more.

If one wants to be rid of these demonstrators, one has to find suitable activities to occupy them. It is much easier for a low paid agricultural worker or a seasonal worker to go and protest than it is for a shopkeeper, or a factory worker or an office clerk. Thailand's labour economy still is dominated by the low paid agricultural worker and these people have nothing to lose when they leave the fields. I think we are about to see a summer of discontent in the west. Aside from Greece and its regular protests, look for Spain, where its youth segment is subject to 50% unemployment. Thailand has been able to avoid the massive idiocy of Greece until now, because the marginal employment helped to dull the discontent. However, as the economy hardens, I think we will see more young people participate in protest activities. National peace will require more gainful employment and therein lies the motivation for the attempt to increase basic wages.

I can't wait until the government makes good on it's promise that every Thai will be rich. Already overdue isn't it? Then those bored UDD boys will be able to buy Ipads and spend their time social networking instead.

[BigBikeBKK]

RT @RichardBarrow: 11:30am Panorama photo looking towards Ratchaprasong intersection during Red Shirt Rally http://bit.ly/JDGQuD

RT @RichardBarrow: 11:36am This photo is looking away from the stage towards Pratunam http://bit.ly/JDHcSc

Isn't this how it started last time?

No.

I remember how it ended last time. Why is this mob being allowed back into the city???

[hellodolly]

Ozmick, "Why? Occasionally you say something interesting, and almost always on topic, even if I don't agree with you. What I don't need to read is opiniated musings on the inadequacies of posters in the news section from someone who has gone from omnipotence to omniscience in one quick bound, but still can't carry out a logical argument. "

Most things I write are opinions, so you may choose to call them opinionated, further my comment was not on the inadequacies of posters but rather the intensity with which they were expressed. I have never claimed either omnipotence or omniscience in these forums, I leave that to others. Logical arguments is a very subjective term, some people's concepts of parsimony differs from others, but I try my best. But my real complaint is why use words like "drivel", perhaps I'm too old or too English for you, but I find that word offensive, there are more neutral comments such as "off topic".

Why do people feel the need to express themselves in an offensive manner, using words which have to contain *** 's because the word is too offensive to be spelt in full?

Incidentally we are now both well off topic

If I may I would like to interject here.

Two things

1 I resent your need for a certain standard of English to be met. ( I will get over it)

2 You say "Logical arguments is a very subjective term" TRUE. But why try it here in a culture that is completely different than what you grew up in. And (is it OK for me to start a sentence with and) the chances of understanding it are not that good most of us just except it with no qualms but we fail to understand it. Of course there is a minority of foreigners in my opinion who just condemn it because it is not identical to back home.

[Tanlic]

RT @RichardBarrow: 11:30am Panorama photo looking towards Ratchaprasong intersection during Red Shirt Rally http://bit.ly/JDGQuD

RT @RichardBarrow: 11:36am This photo is looking away from the stage towards Pratunam http://bit.ly/JDHcSc

Isn't this how it started last time?

No.

I remember how it ended last time. Why is this mob being allowed back into the city???

Ok then let's say the Government say you can't come in then what?

Civil War ? Anarchy? murder? mayhem? take your pick

[gand]

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

You forgot to use the word "elderly".

You raise an interesting point and it is worth some consideration. I do agree that there are some elderly UDD supporters, but the turnout core is typically 25-40 years of age and skewed towards males. The more violent events seemed to involve 20-30 year olds. Look at some of the photos.

That's a demographic aspect that should concern people. My own impression is that the "violent" group comprises alot of underemployed/unemployed males. Whenever you have males in that age group involved in a protest there is always trouble. There wouldn't be any violence or problems if the demonstrators were all 40 years old or more.

If one wants to be rid of these demonstrators, one has to find suitable activities to occupy them. It is much easier for a low paid agricultural worker or a seasonal worker to go and protest than it is for a shopkeeper, or a factory worker or an office clerk. Thailand's labour economy still is dominated by the low paid agricultural worker and these people have nothing to lose when they leave the fields. I think we are about to see a summer of discontent in the west. Aside from Greece and its regular protests, look for Spain, where its youth segment is subject to 50% unemployment. Thailand has been able to avoid the massive idiocy of Greece until now, because the marginal employment helped to dull the discontent. However, as the economy hardens, I think we will see more young people participate in protest activities. National peace will require more gainful employment and therein lies the motivation for the attempt to increase basic wages.

I can't wait until the government makes good on it's promise that every Thai will be rich. Already overdue isn't it? Then those bored UDD boys will be able to buy Ipads and spend their time social networking instead.

They did, the good news is, they got their wage increase, the bad news is, they lost their jobs, most likely to illegal immigrants. Some call it supply and demand, I call it lack of enforcing the immigration laws.

Thai Unionists 'Laid Off In Wake Of Wage Increase'

[anterian]

Hello dolly, Let this be my final comment before we annoy the mods I don't give a dam_n how bad your English grammar is, you can start a sentence with "and" or "but" even end it with "of". Vocabulary is my beef, why do so many people feel the need to be so aggressively rude? Surely it is possible to strongly disagree with someone without sinking into gutter language. Are you or Ozmick always right, I doubt it, am I always right, again I doubt it, but uncivil exchanges simply make people become dogmatically stubborn.

[MaxwellsDemon]

veena T. ‏@veen_NT

Red shirts have done their duty and now it's the end of the road, says Thaksin. via @jin_nation

Nothing like distancing yourself from all the promises you've made. A diplomatic way of saying, 'Cheers for your help. No 300 baht for you lot!'

Did thaksin say that? Does that mean its over?

[gand]

George Bernard Shaw: “England and America are two countries divided by a common language.”

[LindsayBKK]

Good for them

Get them off their farms and out of their red villages.

Also, the 500 - 1000 baht they are surely being paid

to attend will help them put food on the table tomorrow.

Not sure how the will pay to feed themselves the day

after though.

Memorial is good, just too bad they still do not realize

their leaders led them in a slaughter, IMO

You are claiming they are being paid. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I believe you still don't get it. There is a core demographic that supports the UDD, the same way there is a core group that supports Newin or Abhisit.

Yes I know of a medical staff member who said she is paid for everytime she attends. Amounts varied she said. 200-500/day. Why, you didn't see the money lines at the last protest? It was shown on TV, but of course you missed that.

Why not attend, I hear the homeless are attending as well for some free meals.

But more importantly I would like to know why Central World, Big C, Gaysorn Plaza

(just to name a few) don't sue for loss of income because of road closures.

Oh and not to mention the 1Million Baht YES 1M! compensation for burning part of Central World, that was a smack in the face from Pheu Thai / Red's. How dare they protest again. Central World is not celebrating, nor Center One, nor Big C!

I was on my car last time they protested and put the window down to ask a red what they were doing, one lady said she was there for democracy, of course I asked if she knew what that meant and all I got was ummm ahhhhh ummmm democracy!

Rest my case.

Oh and where are the 100-200,000 expected , let's just say more like 35,000.

[gand]

veena T. ‏@veen_NT

Red shirts have done their duty and now it's the end of the road, says Thaksin. via @jin_nation

Nothing like distancing yourself from all the promises you've made. A diplomatic way of saying, 'Cheers for your help. No 300 baht for you lot!'

Did thaksin say that? Does that mean its over?

Doubtful for that megalomaniac.

[rubl]

Ozmick, "Why? Occasionally you say something interesting, and almost always on topic, even if I don't agree with you. What I don't need to read is opiniated musings on the inadequacies of posters in the news section from someone who has gone from omnipotence to omniscience in one quick bound, but still can't carry out a logical argument. "

Most things I write are opinions, so you may choose to call them opinionated, further my comment was not on the inadequacies of posters but rather the intensity with which they were expressed. I have never claimed either omnipotence or omniscience in these forums, I leave that to others. Logical arguments is a very subjective term, some people's concepts of parsimony differs from others, but I try my best. But my real complaint is why use words like "drivel", perhaps I'm too old or too English for you, but I find that word offensive, there are more neutral comments such as "off topic".

Why do people feel the need to express themselves in an offensive manner, using words which have to contain *** 's because the word is too offensive to be spelt in full?

Different countries, different opinions on what is offensive, what's not. In lots of countries a few four-letter words are considered impolite, in others not at all. Forum rules on TV prohibit the use of some words, in computer language that would be RTFM. Drivel seems to have become a favorite new word for some, especially when describing a theNation article. Myself I consider the use of 'obvious', 'all know', 'Thai majority' and a few phrases like that close to offensive.

In other words, is it interesting to read that some are offended by words containing ***, but tend to forget to remark on the rest of a post?

Anyway we have a gay, old time here at TV and assuming we wear other than red/yellow shirts, we could even have a fun day/evening at the coming TV gathering

[Skywalker69]

George Bernard Shaw: “England and America are two countries divided by a common language.”

I always thought they were divided by a pool of water.

[scotbeve]

Good for them

Get them off their farms and out of their red villages.

Also, the 500 - 1000 baht they are surely being paid

to attend will help them put food on the table tomorrow.

Not sure how the will pay to feed themselves the day

after though.

Memorial is good, just too bad they still do not realize

their leaders led them in a slaughter, IMO

You are claiming they are being paid. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I believe you still don't get it. There is a core demographic that supports the UDD, the same way there is a core group that supports Newin or Abhisit.

They are most likely not getting paid but getting a discount on their transport and food that THEY have to pay out of pocket.

[OzMick]

Ozmick, "Why? Occasionally you say something interesting, and almost always on topic, even if I don't agree with you. What I don't need to read is opiniated musings on the inadequacies of posters in the news section from someone who has gone from omnipotence to omniscience in one quick bound, but still can't carry out a logical argument. "

Most things I write are opinions, so you may choose to call them opinionated, further my comment was not on the inadequacies of posters but rather the intensity with which they were expressed. I have never claimed either omnipotence or omniscience in these forums, I leave that to others. Logical arguments is a very subjective term, some people's concepts of parsimony differs from others, but I try my best. But my real complaint is why use words like "drivel", perhaps I'm too old or too English for you, but I find that word offensive, there are more neutral comments such as "off topic".

Why do people feel the need to express themselves in an offensive manner, using words which have to contain *** 's because the word is too offensive to be spelt in full?

In neither reply was I referring to you. And while 'drivel' may be a strong, emotive description, I see no reason for it to be offensive.

And you are right, we a way off topic.

[SomTumTiger]

I suggest you all read today's column by Voranai Vanijaka in "The Other Newspaper". He lays out the entire sordid affair clearly. Its all gray areas. Both sides are right - and both sides are wrong. The problem is that the TV red shirts - Phi, and others, refuse to see that their "side" is wrong in any degree, while the TV yellow shirts see everything the red shirts do as evil and having a hidden agenda from Thaksin. Therein lies the problem No compromise means no progress.

The army killed red shirts - yes

The red shirts killed army - yes

Thaksin paid red shirts - yes

The army used live ammunition and killed innocents - yes

The red shirts fired RPG rounds and used human shields and parked NGV trucks near residential areas - yes

The yellow shirts invaded the airport and forced its closure - yes

The red shirts invaded a meeting of world leaders and forced its closure - yes

The red shirts burned down lots of buildings and invaded a hospital - yes

All these things happened. Not just some of them. ALL are at fault. ALL need to try to restore a sense of balance. I actually think Thaksin understands that. It seems the TV red shirts do not, TV Yellow shirts, and anyone else who constantly refuses to view both sides of the issue are at fault - which is most of us.